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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: e387be3c4ec763e⋯.jpg (20.46 KB,220x279,220:279,220px-Rand_Paul,_official_….jpg)

 No.102572 [Open thread]

Let's face it, if Trump didn't magically appeared out of nowhere pic related would be the US president now, I'm starting to think that all this alt-"right" surge was done by the powers that be to prevent the final rise of Libertarianism.

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 No.102573

I'm not sure getting Paul-kun (jr) into office would've changed anything. The President doesn't actually hold that much power.

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 No.102576

>pic related would be the US president now

doubt.jpg

The donor class preferred Jeb, Rubio and Cruz in pretty much that order. Cankles had a sumpremely well funded and incompetent team but the question remains whether Paul could've flipped the states he needed to flip for a win.

> doesn't actually hold that much power

He hold plenty but needs loyal personnel to act on it.

Which Trump fucked up badly by letting Rinsed Penis do most of the staffing causing the admin to be filled with NeverTrump cuckservatives and Obama holdovers.

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 No.102580

>>102572

He isn't attractive to the boomercon bulk of the party, so it's doubtful he could've won the primaries.

That said, he has the most cross-party appeal and firm values so he'd do well in a presidential race.

Missed opportunity imo.

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 No.102581

>>102572

I highly doubt that.

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 No.102587

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Wrong

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File: f022854934e71d5⋯.jpg (123.04 KB,511x604,511:604,1557953891.jpg)

 No.102547 [Open thread]

>so what's this libertarianism thingy, Anon?

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 No.102560

>>102558

Where do you live?

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 No.102561

>>102555

Because you live in a first world country where they receive gibs. Look at pictures of countries where libertarianism is implicitly tied to women's rights, and the number of libertarian women skyrockets.

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 No.102562

>>102555

I know it isn't much but there's Mackenzie who's an ancap cosplayer. She's surprisingly based though she is engaged. https://twitter.com/_Kenziepuff

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 No.102565

File: f468d3205ac600e⋯.jpg (81.59 KB,1080x1066,540:533,D7gxH2NV4AEeHyC.jpg)

>>102562

>she plays Girls Frontline

That IS based!

Honestly, I don't normally comment about shit like this but holy fuck those are some wide-ass hips, brb gotta fap.

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 No.102600

>>102547

Too old, sage

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File: 43cf118af3a0947⋯.png (239.84 KB,768x392,96:49,Nathan1.png)

 No.102359 [Open thread]

Title Tbh

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 No.102422

>>102359

based and redpilled

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 No.102480

>>102422

obviously

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 No.102490

>disgraced

You mean based?

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 No.102493

>>102490

He is but that's not the general consensus of normies. I do think he is based but I tend to keep that in the low

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 No.102503

I hate the Frankfurt school except where they actually critique consumerism, but I digress. It's fun to use their theories against them, especially on sociological matters. Like I think the reason why pedophiles are most gay is because they got their ass beat growing up for being gay so they find someone who can't fight back. For the small percentage that are straight, it's because of essential gender roles of women taking it and men giving it. Human beings, human doings and all that jazz, younger women are actually more fertile and it used to be practiced until the advent of femikikery in the public eye. Also you can't make kids with poopdick. William Reich used against himself

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File: 4cdd79e2adc609a⋯.png (2.14 MB,1868x2270,934:1135,communists (1).png)

 No.102487 [Open thread]

fyi this board was clinically dead for years until this image was posted

>fucking communist fags

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 No.102488

Tl; dr?

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 No.102489

File: 3f64e8e90ea9d10⋯.jpg (563.28 KB,1080x2220,18:37,20190517_085927.jpg)

File: 215b8bba7de1485⋯.jpg (688.73 KB,1080x2220,18:37,20190517_085650.jpg)

>>102488

you could at least read the highlights

>this is the tl;dr version on the topic of arms control and disarming citizens ask the info u need is there

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 No.102501

File: 6e4e8ca7c9ce5cd⋯.mp4 (3.5 MB,854x480,427:240,Gun Control In 47 Seconds.mp4)

>>102487

>enforce disarmament by use of armed forces

It's amazing how drunk on doublethink these creeps are

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File: 6c31f0c918c7d0f⋯.jpg (35.16 KB,780x439,780:439,yellow-jacket.jpg)

 No.102365 [Open thread]

If you took Stirners "anti-objectivity" stance but was against altruism as much as Ayn Rand what is that?

Also general ethics thread.

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 No.102445

If I were to grab an SK and foolhardly tried to save Assange, where am I w.r.t. NAP?

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 No.102476

>>102445

why do you still believe in that? everyone is in this world for themselves. most capitalists would say "you're not trying hard enough to be successful"

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 No.102477

>>102421

no he was an anarchist

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 No.102542

>>102476

If we all descend into Barbarism the world will be rendered uninhabitable. The idea is create a society which values liberty so that it can turn its guns outwards and prevent that from happening.

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 No.102552

>>102542

>and prevent that from happening.

Prevent a descent into barbarism. I see now that my post could read "prevent valuing liberty from happening".

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File: 0f73decb22015d4⋯.webm (2.57 MB,240x135,16:9,1477766530783032525.webm)

 No.102298 [Open thread]

ancap is nice but i like white sharia more because seeing whoredom makes me suffer and butthurt because im an incel

rate

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 No.102423

>>102312

is wanting modest, honest, virtuous wife a pathological attitude toward sex?

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 No.102425

>>102357

I'd go broader and say that it's for bottom-caste males in general. Being a nerd is still bad but nerd interests are cool so they can't use that and just saying virgin was starting to get dated so now the new hotness is 'incel' for insulting males at the bottom of the social hierarchy.

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 No.102439

>>102379

>>102425

Stop playing into the Communists hands. It is a term forged in the fires of faggotry. It is a meaningless term meant simply to fling at your enemies. Do not ascribe it meaning, do not use it, simply mock its use with derision.

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 No.102465

>>102423

>>102425

>>102439

>>102379

>>102357

>5 answers

>each completely different

I think we can safely say the word might as well be meaningless

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 No.102510

>>102350

>incels

The very fact that you use this term tells me you are from reddit. Go back. Robots are not incels.

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File: 4bc701cc0ed0d2b⋯.png (311.55 KB,812x960,203:240,4bc701cc0ed0d2baa3cf753dd8….png)

 No.102373 [Open thread]

Explain this.

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 No.102429

>>102373

I fully support and avow this.

The beauty of free market eugenics at play.

Further reading:

>>102426

>>102377

Nice cope socialist. What OP is pointing out is a free market economy at its peak performance and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

You seem like you need an helicopter ride my dude.

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 No.102433

>>102409

>Mending a broken bone, getting medicine, having X-rays etc. Is the same as splinting it and having a wellness checkup

You're delusional, dude.

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 No.102436

>>102412

Tell that to the hundreds of third worlders who die each year drilling it. Fossil fuels are from fucking plant matter.

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 No.102437

>>102429

But what if helicopters don't exist because technology was destroyed in a nuclear holocaust

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 No.102455

File: 23e01650de4fba3⋯.png (129.99 KB,1134x1357,1134:1357,1505288440471.png)

File: 7ddfdc2de76c74f⋯.jpg (80.71 KB,726x1024,363:512,1518631119504m.jpg)

File: 06485351a17eb72⋯.jpg (210.44 KB,1024x576,16:9,1389218943999 (1).jpg)

Alright, you want to make healthcare more affordable? Here's a three step plan:

>End inflationary monetary policy

The current monetary system in the US, like in all Western countries, is designed to enrich bankers and subsidize statism by inflating the money supply, thus stealing purchasing power from workers. Eliminate this system, and costs will go down, the value of savings will increase, and real wages will increase.

>No more subsidies.

State subsidies raise the cost of purchasing health service, since the state is able to overspend at a whim, driving up the price of healthcare.

>Deregulate the medical industry

End the cartelization of the medical industry through corporatist regulation schemes, and let competition drive down the prices.

Further points to consider:

>About 65% of the American medical industry is socialized

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/01/lawrence-wilson-md/americas-socialized-health-care/

>In 2018 there was a point when 133 out of 137 hospital trusts in England had an unsafe number of patients on their wards

>people are being left for hours on trolleys in corridors and stuck in ambulances.

>more than 120 patients a day are being managed in corridors in some places, some dying prematurely

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42572116

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File: 4918a1bbb072aba⋯.jpg (16.61 KB,300x300,1:1,h6UI6Iq1_400x400.jpg)

 No.101152 [Open thread]

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 No.102366

File: 50182708e99daf6⋯.png (232.41 KB,461x447,461:447,(You) don't belong here.png)

>>102355

>toxic

>(you) Americans

>I r smart oldfag

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 No.102374

>>102355

>revolutionized linguistics

That is an impressive feat for someone known for their incoherent mumbling.

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 No.102378

>>102374

It is true, though

He took a sledgehammer to social constructionism in linguistics and invented the hierarchy of formal grammars, which is a theory of language that comprehensively ties it to formal logic and set theory.

He basically proved language shares a fundamental logical structure with mathematics, as far as I can tell. Really interesting and deep stuff, but not related to politics in the slightest.

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 No.102427

>>101158

>Make no mistake, Chomsky, especially in the realm of economics and his apologist nature for socialism, communism and the like, is a fucking moron. The problem here is that the author isn't too bright either.

Socialism is, by definition, when the goverment does stuff, the more stuff the goverment does the socialister it is.

Communism is when the goverment does a lot of stuff.

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 No.102428

>>102427

[…] Thus, communism is when there is a lot of socialism.

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File: b5cb44a8e14b670⋯.jpg (24.25 KB,336x358,168:179,hhh.jpg)

 No.101607 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

For an individual to be considered a human being, he has to recognise other human beings as so, thus, as humanity derivates from the ability to hold property, those who do not respect other's properties do not deserve to be respected as human and should be both legal and ethical to shoot them on spot.

Let's say, for the shake of argument, that I don't allow my property to be polluted, such a thing allows me to ask for a compensation if somebody polluted my land or my body with chemicals, cigarrete smoke, etc… a refusal to provide such compensation would allow me to shot the aggresor in the spot or to force my way into earn such compensation, like organ harvesting or debtors prision (which is not slavery like statist say, as nobody forces you to commit crimes, thus being this kind of "forced" labour voluntary at the end).

The exact same logic applies to IP, the main reason why I like article 13 so much, it does not matter, at all, if ideas or information are abundant in nature (they are not- as they relay on scarce resources like time and energy), let me explain:

Water and air are both abundant in nature, however, both their harvesting and removal of pollution requiere resources that are not scarce, pretty much the same can be applied to IP.

As a side note, IP should be eternal, saying otherwhise would be geolibertarian pink-socialism, asking IP to expire is like asking land property rights to expire.

As both a Disney and Activision-Blizzard shareholder you are literally taking food out of my mouth.

So stop illegaly downloading online content you socialist brats or the day of the rope will come sooner than you think.

Thanks for your time faggots. -L

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 No.102284

>>102271

they arent

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 No.102287

>>102284

>A first principle is an axiom that cannot be deduced from any other within that system.

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 No.102308

>>102287

> Pewnego rodzaju odpowiednikiem "pierwszych zasad" jest w logice współczesnej pojęcie "aksjomatu" – zasady uznane w logice tradycyjnej za "pierwsze" nie mogą jednak stanowić aksjomatyki rachunku zdań ani żadnego systemu dedukcyjnego. Są one bowiem twierdzeniami, które wyprowadza się z aksjomatów rachunku zdań za pomocą wielu kroków dowodowych.

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 No.102417

>>102308

Looks like whoever wrote the article is confusing a priori statements with a posteriori statements.

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 No.102730

>>102186

Prove it.

Completely.

Without resorting to circular reasoning.

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File: e184c73f43915b8⋯.gif (1.62 MB,200x200,1:1,Lorenz_Attractor.gif)

 No.98122 [Open thread]

Why don't libertarians respect chaos theory more?

https://mises.org/library/chaos-theory-destroying-mathematical-economics-within-full-edition

It feels like a great way to get out of the old determinism v. free will debate by arguing about whether certain classes of natural phenomena are predictable as opposed to 'predetermined.' You can better incorporate the salients points of Hayek's local knowledge and Mises' calculation arguments. You can point out socialist hubris. Finally, you can actually speak in a harder and more rigorous scientific point of view.

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 No.101144

>>100950

Mankind developed the word "choice" to describe a process that occurs within his mind. Regardless of the nature of this phenomenon, it does occur. Being a real phenomenon which takes place within a natural universe, its operation is deterministic in nature, regardless of whether the mechanism can ever be understood. Free will and determinism are not mutually exclusive, and to believe that they are is to fail to understand at least one of them.

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 No.102340

>>100950

Look a bit more carefully, because the first and third point you make contradict each other.

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 No.102380

I'm too brainlet to contribute but I wish the more intelligent among us would spend more time discussing shit like this and less time memeing about helicopters.

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 No.102389

>>102380

Fuck it. We're at the level where we might as well be brainlets discussing it, because I agree. I'd rather have this than helicopter and Shockbutt memes.

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 No.102390

>>100950

Isn't the point of OP not to defend free will or determinism, but to point out that predictability v. unpredictability is really the key argument when it comes to the underlying foundations of some libertarian theories?

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File: d82a296f061d344⋯.png (3.92 MB,3384x3992,423:499,liberty reading guide impr….png)

 No.92213 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

I wanted to make a right-wing reading list initially, but turns out I cannot, in good conscience, make one while omitting the libertarian aspect of it, which I believe is genuinely right-wing, whereas shit like national socialism and distributism are leftism in disguise.

So I took our old reading list and amended it. I also cut a few entries, like Molyneux (he is pretty low-tier), the New Libertarian Manifesto (everything from it is pretty much included in the Agorist Primer), and Nozick (he just isn't that good and hardly relevant anymore).

Hope this is of help for someone!

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 No.101123

File: f61996962e48a3a⋯.jpg (1.53 MB,2250x2908,1125:1454,Untitled.jpg)

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 No.101242

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 No.101247

>>101242

meh

im already in favour of legalisation of all drugs

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 No.102356

>>101242

This is the most retarded, edgy and try-hard thing I've ever read in my entire life. The cringe. Holy fuck, the cringe.

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 No.102375

>>102356

How cringe is it? What are examples of some cringy material?

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File: 2f03b2d6d65d0ea⋯.jpg (10.23 KB,195x259,195:259,images (8).jpg)

 No.102323 [Open thread]

People joke a lot about the NAP and how an ancap would shoot a little kid that wanders into a yard and all that (you know the memes). I fully understand that this case is a logical extreme but in the unlikely chance of it happening would ancapistan have any sort of recourse if a person were to kill an ignorant child for trespassing aside from refusing to trade with them. Is it simply an unfortunate circumstance one has to live with?

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 No.102332

Not directly addreesing the topic, but more as an addendum to the other posts: When a skeptic is considering whether a private alternative would function comparably to a current government system, ask the question: Is the government equivalent really that great?

When you say a system ought to provide "recourse" that carries the implication that such a mechanism be effective. Does our judicial system consistently provide fair and commensurate punishment for crimes (or non-crimes)? Are different groups of people and people guilty of different offenses really treated equally under the law? Do the enforced laws coincide well with local customs and values of a community?

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 No.102354

>>102323

private courts

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 No.102367

Most likely in ancapistan the child will have a gun so good luck doing that

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 No.102368

What Subjective non-altruism?

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 No.102752

>>102323

Do you think people generally dislike [problem you've identified]?

Do you think people would prefer that [problem you've identified] were solved?

If so, then there's a profit opportunity in solving [problem you've identified].

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File: a36a2684fe9bc01⋯.jpeg (62.09 KB,618x665,618:665,61931113-925F-42D7-B581-4….jpeg)

 No.102145 [Open thread]

Neocons are subhuman vermin. Show your hate.

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 No.102244

File: f5cededd33b88fc⋯.jpeg (534.96 KB,1536x2015,1536:2015,C42FA3E6-A3B1-4004-8A74-C….jpeg)

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 No.102255

is ben shapiro neocon?

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 No.102260

>>102255

Ben Shapiro is *the* neocon, anon.

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 No.102277

File: a8a243d5ba8a71f⋯.webm (259 KB,640x640,1:1,VID_26941027_200040_179.webm)

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 No.102364

>>102224

No it's mostly women are the problem

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File: e9a1199fbb99bae⋯.jpg (72.75 KB,537x725,537:725,1557941385346.jpg)

 No.102230 [Open thread]

Why do you guys like your surplus labor value being taken by your boss?

14 posts and 4 image replies omitted. Click [Open thread] to view. ____________________________
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 No.102333

>>102283

>truth is bait

Hey liberal, shouldn't your newfag ass be on /pol/?

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 No.102334

>>102230

If the value that the company takes truly is undeserved why don't employees simply quite and keep the value themselves or offer said value without being employed by a company? It is because the structure and benefits said companies provide outweigh the surplus value to the point of necessity. Not to mention if you are employed you probably agreed to the terms therefore really its your fault if you think said arrangement is unsatisfactory and if there is no other person willing to hire then perhaps you might not make as much value as you think you do.

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 No.102337

>>102334

No, it's clearly because the system forces you to work for Amazon, at gunpoint. If I don't do anything I'll starve to death. That's not freedom.

>perhaps you might not make as much value as you think you do.

How dare you suggest that some workers don't deserve the wages they are paid. You're probably an evil capitalist who hates fair working conditions for Africans and likes child labor. I stand with workers. #UnionsAreWorkingPeopleWhoStandTogether #CaliforniaLaborFederation

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 No.102353

>>102272

fortunately im slav and slav arent white :^)

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 No.103059

>>102230

The worker, on his own, can make one "value".

The capitalist's capital enables the worker to make 8 "value" instead.

The capitalist uses 5 of those "value" to cover the cost of maintaining the capital and paying off loans for having it built in the first place.

The capitalist keeps 1 "value" for himself.

Repeat across one million workers, and those workers collectively now have 1 million more "value" than they otherwise would have had, and so does he.

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File: 323f3e6dac58b03⋯.jpg (18.97 KB,480x360,4:3,download (9).jpg)

 No.102328 [Open thread]

I used to believe in a more ancap-style right-libertarian order, but now I'm starting to see the benefits of having institutions that constitute more than one individual collectively owned. However, even though I think "wage-slavery" as some would call it is undesirable and should definitely be avoided, I don't think it would really be feasible to just outright abolish or pretend that it will not exist entirely in a libertarian order. That being said, I still think some sort of libertarian order would be the most beneficial, and we should progress towards one. And as far as one-man sole proprietor businesses go, the ancap approach generally makes a lot of sense to me. The free-market is cool so long as the autonomy of individuals (assuming they haven't physically assaulted or harmed anyone) is respected and not undermined. Mutual aid is also something that I'd like to see free-markets respect, but the bare minimum I ask for is respect for individual autonomy. It's also important to note that I don't think a state would be able to serve as an ideal arbiter in this system and that I wouldn't be opposed to federations of communes or ancap covenants existing so long as their respected communities properly consent to living in their systems on a basic level and that they don't violently attempt to invade other jurisdictions with no justifiable reason that is able to be confirmed by several legal arbiters (not necessarily ones that run for profit like in a Friedmanian-ancap system either, as I'd imagine a lot of those sorts of organizations that will manage to have any real backing by most libertarian jurisdictions would be the ones that are operated by trained volunteers with no profit incentive). Another thing I should note is that I don't deliberately attempt to adhere to a strict economic school of thought outside of me believing in free-markets that respect individual autonomy, liberty, and to an extent- mutual aid….and I also believe in the subjective theory of value.

On the other hand though- after reading a little bit of Ted Kaczynski's Industrial Society and Its Future, I noticed that Ted actually had some good points that should be considered. I don't find transhumanism/post-humanism to be inherently undesirable, but aspects of it that don't help free the individual from the system of social control that Kaczynski describes shouldPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.102329

>What even am I at this point?

A faggot.

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 No.102338

Δłł γѻμ ηēēԁ is sѻmē ŗēsէ. Kiłł էԩē ċѻmmiēs fѻŗ ԁăԁ, ѡԩēη γѻμ ġēէ băċk, ԁăԁ ѡiłł ġiυē γѻμ sѻmē ηiċē ŗēsէ.

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 No.102339

>no real feedback

Thx /liberty/, it's no wonder this board is thriving right now

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 No.102341

>>102339

Cf >>100308 and its responses.

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 No.102344

>>102328

You're a confused voluntaryist.

>I used to believe in a more ancap-style right-libertarian order, but now I'm starting to see the benefits of having institutions that constitute more than one individual collectively owned.

Collective property rights are perfectly acceptable in libertarian thought, and imo preferable in some instances; aquifers, urban infrastructure and militias are all good examples.

>The free-market is cool so long as the autonomy of individuals (assuming they haven't physically assaulted or harmed anyone) is respected and not undermined.

The best way to ensure that is what happens is to distribute law enforcement. Read the machinery of freedom, it's online and very straightforward (kinda like an anti-Kapital).

>the newly-born posthuman can be free to do gay space shit at its will.

Read Accelerando, by Charles Stross

>I do not believe that a state relaxing immigration restrictions would be legitimate if that very same state legally restricts your ability to defend yourself or your ability to freely associate

That makes you not stupid.

>>102339

You wrote a rambling, incoherent blogpost.

Don't blame people for not taking the time to work through it.

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