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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: c4c706c79d6509e⋯.jpg (138.51 KB,1000x1000,1:1,ND25Nk4CDVE.jpg)

 No.102278 [Open thread]

In all seriousness (without any helicopter jokes or anything), should those who don't believe in private property be forbidden from owning private property? As far as I'm concerned, from an ethical standpoint, the second you say that private property doesn't exist, you aren't allowed to own your self and your own body, so you become no one's property and you lose all rights as a human being. I know Hoppe came up with this, but I never read about how this would work in practice.

The only practical problem I see with this theory is how to correctly determine whether someone is a property-denier or not so as to prevent false accusations and abuse, while also preventing leftists from dodging punishment when (as usual) they lie and pretend to not be the dirty, filthy leftists that they are.

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 No.102279

Those who don't believe private property exist are much like those who don't exist gravity exists; within ancapistan, you wouldn't need to kill them because their actions will bring about their own deaths more than soon enough.

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 No.102281

>>102278

thoughtcrime huh?

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 No.102292

Yēs, OP, jμsէ sԩѻէ էԩēm ѻη էԩē fiŗsէ iηԁiċăէiѻη ѻf bēiġη ċѻmmiēs.

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 No.102315

No one gives a fuck in what leftists believe or not, just physically remove them if they start acting on it, like you would do with any person that has shitty ideas

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File: 951f42e271bf586⋯.png (129.67 KB,556x863,556:863,1462892230034.png)

 No.102310 [Open thread]

>feliks konieczny

thoughts?

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 No.102311

File: fb51485bc004b6d⋯.gif (1.32 MB,264x264,1:1,costanza.gif)

>shock study

>state propagandists are more likely to support more state intervention

>shock

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 No.102322

Do nu-conservatives have to run around gathering and spewing stories and statistics on things that the past 3 years have shown to be true in hopes of convincing normalfags to suddenly turn their minds off the mainstream and then pretend to be "shocked" by things that everyone already knew to be true?

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File: b4e820e30efb017⋯.jpg (91.85 KB,604x358,302:179,whatwouldhappeniflondonwas….jpg)

 No.102293 [Open thread]

Say you despise gun rights. So, you pass whatever possible restrictions are imaginable. Certain kinds of guns get placed in certain kinds of categories with different legal restrictions. You start placing registration requirements on some of these categories. Using infiltration tactics, you take your battle everywhere you can. Some areas, like NYC, are very easy to make it impossible to own a gun. Gradually, through regulatory creep and bureaucracy you effectively nullify the ability to own a gun.

Meanwhile, libertarians' response is, "ELIMINATE X LAW. JUST WRITE IT OFF THE BOOK." But you never see a gun activist successfully passing a law to, "JUST BAN ALL GUNS," they instead take this creep, Fabian approach.

Now, I know Rothbard wrote about how a Fabian strategy won't work, but I want to point out that what I'm saying is subtly different. I'm NOT saying, "Grant us the right to use guns registration-free every third Tuesday of the month," and count that as an incremental victory. Instead, pass regulations on top of the regulators. Make it so bureaucrats have to pass through three different bodies to possibly deny a gun permit. If a response is not received within 25 days, the permit is to be considered automatically granted.

My basic point is that if increasing regulation increases the cost of doing business, then shouldn't increasing regulation on regulators increase their cost of doing business? Effectively making most regulations dead letters because they become effectively impossible to enforce?

Moreover, it gives certain politicians a more politically viable way out. E.g., if a politician votes against compulsory public schools, he gets labeled as "Being against education," mainly because he's "doing nothing." But if he votes for restrictions against the CPS to go against homeschoolers, he's suddenly "Stopping government overreach."

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 No.102295

>implying FISA court warrants are worth jack

>implying the US government follows the law

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 No.102296

That's an interesting way of doing it. Its efficacy in the long run is questionable since you're imposing more deadweight loss on top of existing deadweight loss, but it's difficult to make anything viable long-term in democratic politics. A stopgap solution is better than no solution at all, and if someone ever gets around to eliminating the bureaucracy entirely, the more of a clownshow it is, the easier it would be to get people to agree with dismantling it. The one concern I have is this: >>102295

Regulatory bodies don't really have an incentive to restrict their own behavior. Whoever is current head of the ATF might just tell everyone under him to not keep a close eye on whether those requirements are met or not.

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 No.102299

Bμγ ġμηs, μsē էԩēm. Tԩăէ is ăłł ŗēġμłăէiѻη էԩē ŗēġμłăէѻŗs ηēēԁ.

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 No.102302

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 No.102304

File: 110bfcff4d761ff⋯.jpg (65.04 KB,620x800,31:40,bureaucracy.jpg)

>>102293

I'm of the view that bureaucracy should be designed to be as inefficient as possible. That it should take years of pure dedicated effort to pass a single law.

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File: dd17ed303ffc76f⋯.png (190.49 KB,3000x2400,5:4,userviewTMFinal.png)

 No.99591 [Open thread]

>be me

>believe in the free speech and rights of all users

>love shitposting and copypastas and meme fanfics

>have god-tier indesign skills and routinely read 8chan's shit

>really pissed off at mods and admins abusing the user class

>facebooks bans Tommy Robinson for criticizing BBC and threatens all their users

>meme economy badmins ban me because my aura of free speech was too great for them to comprehend

>interviewed genius world-travelling technologist who predicts Universal Basic Income becomes a big deal this decade

>JAPAN IS GONNA COPYRIGHT ALL MANGA AND ANIME AND MAKE IT ILLEGAL ONLINE FUCKKKKKK

>youtube gonna soft-censor all conspiracies

>mfw i turn this all into a digizine

>mfw mods and admins forever have wrecked anuses

Userview Issue 2: https://userview.wixsite.com/home

Cost me 40 bucks to display this digizine in order to own the mods and admins, but I'm pretty happy with it. Tell me if I should set up a functioning SubscribeStar or if you feel the Internet's better off without this. I'd probably keep making this either way since it's fun tho.

P.S. it's okay to be namefag.

~E p y c [redacted] W y n n

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 No.99634

>>99632

I said Indesign.

~E p y c [redacted] W y n n

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 No.99639

>>99591

you talk like a

~D u m b [stinky] N i g g e r

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 No.99667

fuck off you histrionic cross-posting attention whore

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 No.102301

File: 32d75ffe674e523⋯.png (299.64 KB,751x751,1:1,afroepyc.png)

By the way, if the board owner messages here with interest in partnering with this digizine for mutually beneficial advertising, I accept emails to iiusersunion@protonmail.com. I also accept submissions to there to for potential content. If you are the board owner and are interested, please also post here.

~E p y c [redacted] W y n n

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 No.102320

>>102301

>free love

kys degenerate

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File: e56b2ee223930cb⋯.png (111.14 KB,640x640,1:1,thinking.png)

File: f3d84303484b24a⋯.jpg (458.41 KB,2000x2450,40:49,pendulum.jpg)

File: b63f8bd8ce63943⋯.jpg (191.94 KB,912x941,912:941,idpol.jpg)

File: 02941927a3c8e71⋯.jpg (114.15 KB,760x760,1:1,horseshoe.jpg)

 No.92628 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

How do we un-brainwash nu-/pol/faggots?

/liberty/ is pretty much the continuation of the real 4chan /pol/ before it got nuked and cucked by m00t.

/pol/ here on 8ch AKA nu/pol/ is a cancerous cesspit of literal LARPing neo-nazis and actual white supremacists (strange how these words have lost their meaning because commies blame everyone on being a nazi). How do we combat the incessant stormfaggotry? /pol/ leak and hijack other boards, /v/ is already full of stormfaggots and the mods actively ban conservative posters.

When we take back our country, leftist commie marxists will be thrown out of helicopters, but what do we do with the equally retarded morons on the alt-right?

Educate or Execute?

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 No.102241

>>102227

NatSoc and Zionism had the same root, late 19th-early 20th centuries mass culture.

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 No.102242

Communists and nazis were both funded by american bankers as two sides of controlled opposition. Neither of these groups will ever target their corporate-government overlords, instead they obsess over the "racists" or "sjws" demanding daddy government take action against their evil boogeyman.

All you need to do is create a platform with no authority figure to defend their hurt feelings. They are terrified of freedom.

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 No.102263

>>92628

Educate the young and execute the rest.I'm tired of both extremists trying to suck kids into their dead causes.

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 No.102285

>>102242

citation needed

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 No.102288

>>102285

I think he might be referring to a book series by antony sutton that details in one book how wall street funded the bolsheviks and in the other book how wall street funded the nazis. And there's a third book about how wall street funded FDR.

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File: cb88714ca5342b2⋯.jpg (105.32 KB,690x581,690:581,1556746476130.jpg)

 No.101972 [Open thread]

Did Cockshott solve the Economic Calculation Problem? He says you can just use computers to handle distribution.

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 No.102248

>>102194

>It is theoretically possible to build some sort of god machine

And it's "theoretically possible" to build a perfect Carnot engine, which was conceived of in the seventeenth century. If you were God, then maybe. Otherwise, you're stuck on Earth with us, because space travel isn't actually economically viable.

"Theoretically possible" doesn't mean that it'll ever be built. There's "unrealistic" and then there's "theoretically possible". You underestimate the magnitude of "enough". A single gram of DNA can encode 10^21 bytes of information. You could fit the entire current global volume of digital data, including every single one of Google/NSA's data centers in the palm of your hand, if it were encoded in DNA. Now consider that a single human consists of about half that much DNA. Now consider that you want to simulate the interactions of the growing number of seven billion humans (O(n^2)) over time, and DNA isn't the only determining factor to their behavior. Unless you somehow find a way to validate the performance of or construct such a system without data, or manage to increase our data processing capabilities by a factor of a googol or so (when we're already hitting the limits of quantum mechanics with electronic computing and are either going to have to switch to optical, DNA, or quantum computing) as well as our ability to shuffle around data (look at the graphs of RAM speed/bandwidth vs CPU speed over time), you're up shit creek.

>Nothing seems to be truly beyond our understanding

How about fucking everything? Most of what humans have managed to accomplish is the result of "just werks" empirical observations and squeezing all conceivable use of the few things we can do. Actually understanding and exploiting the fundamental nature of physical mechanisms and the universe is a different question altogether. How about an analytical solution to a phenomenon as mundane as the flow of viscous fluids: the Navier-Stokes equations. Nuclear fusion. Wouldn't it be great if we could produce theoretically unlimited energy with none of the hazardous waste of nuclear fission? We've been revising the model of the atom Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.102251

>>102101

>but in a first world country you can generally go outside and live your whole life and never get mugged or assaulted or anything like that

In ancient times you could too. This has been the case for most of human history outside of war-torn regions.

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 No.102252

>>102248

>Actually understanding and exploiting the fundamental nature of physical mechanisms and the universe is a different question altogether.

Friendly reminder it would take a particle collider the size of our solar system to even begin to understand the mechanism that is gravity.

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 No.102253

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 No.103060

>>102194

>all things are deterministic. It is theoretically possible to build some sort of god machine which knows exactly how every single person would react to something or exactly how much of something they need

This does not follow.

A six-sided die is deterministic; it follows the same laws of physics as everything else. However, rolled from just a few inches above a sufficiently hard surface, the end position of that die is infinitely sensitive to initial conditions. That means you would have to have a literally infinite amount of information to predict which side will land up. Your computer system is likely far more complex than that die, but that doesn't mean it has the information it needs to make the prediction.

The human mind is far more complex and far more chaotic than the die. It therefore follows that an infinite amount of information would be required to reliably predict every action of an individual.

Since it is impossible to process infinite information, your "god machine" is utterly impossible, even in theory.

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File: 36508f9a4aeb2ce⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image,541.64 KB,1500x1375,12:11,win for the marketplace of….jpg)

File: 7e11a3fe3e5d853⋯.jpg (138.17 KB,700x715,140:143,individualism.jpg)

 No.102179 [Open thread]

>imagine defending the economic interests of a dude that own 120 billion bucks in assets

And yet, I am the cuckold.

Nice meme bro. Nice meme faggots.

Individualism is delusional AS FUCK. Might makes right, welfare is not charity, it is a bounty, you bunch of retards, you sure are a fucking bunch of greedy niggers, Jesus.

Deal with it already.

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 No.102199

>>102179

Yeah man, who would ever want to protect Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It's not like their work doesn't make literally billions of people happier in a major way. Better to give all of that carefully invested capital to Maduro the bus driver, Cortez the bartender or Sanders the "shitty" carpenter, what could possibly go wrong?

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 No.102200

>>102198

Memes aren't as trivial, useless and harmful as you might think when you echo Stirner. If all people refuse all memes we would surely cease to be civilized in any capacity, fighting amongst each other for scraps until Humanity was done. Memes can colonize a man and render him useless, but they are also what allow a man to be productive and beautiful.

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 No.102202

>>102185

>*kills you and take your shit*

>*goes unpunished because you made the goverment smaller*

Once again your anglo instincts backfire, cumskin. Ugga booga

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 No.102203

File: d8f3e3fd1e922a5⋯.jpg (34.14 KB,385x490,11:14,6UZ7FtPz1IM.jpg)

>>102202

>*enslaves you*

Now what, nigger?

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 No.102204

>>102202

Ah yes, because the extremely large and powerful government we have now is much more adept at punishing nogs, yes? It doesn't subsidize the production of more criminals, while giving the guilty a mere a slap on the wrist? Surely crime rates now must be much higher than in the small government Wild West.

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File: ea8bade3d9b7fc9⋯.jpg (47.87 KB,660x432,55:36,1421875467564.jpg)

 No.95073 [Open thread]

25 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click [Open thread] to view. ____________________________
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 No.95226

File: 414bf3fa1570c42⋯.mp4 (2.25 MB,402x720,67:120,can't breathe.mp4)

>>95225

Bud, literally every reply today has either been you or someone responding to you. The last post that had anything to do with the OP is >>95118, which was posted yesterday, on the 17th.

>>95225

>The same can be said on you as well

I haven't been bumping the thread, faggamuffin.

>he doesn't even know what sage is

Lurk for three years and never post again.

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 No.96859

>>95091

you mean 8ch pol and 4ch pol?

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 No.102189

I agree it's nauseating but most of the coverage of this omitted any group photos, photos with female refugees and photos with male students, making it seem like the program was matching up female students with male refugees 1:1, when that wasn't actually the case. It does seem like it was cherrypicked somewhat to provoke an emotional response (disgust and anger).

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 No.102190

>>102189

>photos with female refugees and photos with male students

Nope

>making it seem like the program was matching up female students with male refugees 1:1, when that wasn't actually the case.

It actually was.

> It does seem like it was cherrypicked somewhat to provoke an emotional response (disgust and anger).

How dare they not be pleased with what they're seeing there.

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 No.102191

>>102190

>Nope

Why deny it? Even in the cherrypicked collage you can see male students.

>>102190

>It actually was.

Source?

>How dare they not be pleased with what they're seeing there.

I didn't say that, it is concerning. But I remember it being presented as some "refugee dating camp" or something equally ludicrous when it was first posted here, what's the point of bending the truth like that? The fact that students were even being allowed around some unknown migrants is cause enough for alarm, you don't have to make up cuck fantasies for it to be worrisome.

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.102164 [Open thread]

>Naofumi

>selfish and cynical anti-hero that goes full libertarian

Is he unironically ancap?

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 No.102187

>cuckime

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 No.105537

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File: 03b95772e28def5⋯.jpg (48.8 KB,540x720,3:4,142644450763-1.jpg)

 No.50584 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

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 No.101904

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 No.102041

File: 807da4d2d6b5f78⋯.jpg (20.85 KB,307x409,307:409,100toys76.jpg)

>>97787

For a sec, I thought the thumbnail was an elder man firing a laser at the ground, causing it to ignite.

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 No.102139

File: ec4c409d586933e⋯.jpg (327.42 KB,800x1000,4:5,coach redpill junior.jpg)

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 No.102140

>>50640

>imagine someone saying that

>and imagine people unironically nooding along with such retarted statements

cringe

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 No.102153

>>102139

korwin is the new colonel sanders

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File: b1c0207edf3c817⋯.jpeg (63.75 KB,800x534,400:267,talia katz.jpeg)

 No.101892 [Open thread]

After a couple of months of lurking this forum and reading pretty much every thread I came to the conclusion that many of you (fortunately not the majority) are basically white supremacists who don't like to pay taxes, not even to help the poor white people.

Even Austin Petersen brings up the fact that many white supremacists use Libertarianism as a cover for their racist beliefs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAKkv8OS0MY

The Hoppe memes betray your authoritarianism. Why do you fascist faggots who want to ban abortion, drugs, workers rights and homosexuality call yourselves libertarians? Makes no sense.

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 No.101916

File: fbe2ee5b4e9883e⋯.png (81.72 KB,255x255,1:1,1544369994945.png)

>>101892

Whomst is this semen demon??? Is she Hoppean/ancap?

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 No.101927

File: 946fe5df333a74d⋯.jpg (347.33 KB,1200x1460,60:73,1200px-Gilbert_Stuart_Will….jpg)

>>101892

>basically white supremacists who don't like to pay taxes, not even to help the poor white people

Yes. And?

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 No.101928

File: 1a23b797188a741⋯.jpg (55.62 KB,600x752,75:94,Austin Petersen being a mo….jpg)

>>101892

>Even Austin Petersen

>Even

Austin Petersen is kind of a moron, a dick, and a soft-libertarian. He's not an authority.

>Why do you fascist faggots who want to ban abortion, drugs, workers rights and homosexuality call yourselves libertarians? Makes no sense.

>abortion

Because it's the murder of a human being, and hence against the NAP?

>drugs

I don't want to ban drugs. I think they are degenerate, but not that they should be cirminalized. That said, I also don't feel particularly sorry for drug dealers who get convicted, precisely because they are degenerates who couldn't care less abou thte liberty of others.

>workers rights

Excuse me? What special rights are workers supposed to possess? Yes, they can strike, but they are not entitled to continued payment or to not being terminated over it. They don't "deserve" a "living wage" just as I don't deserve an "adequate wage", and frankly, many of them can suck my dick for being egotistical assholes. Any of them care about how hard some small business owners work? Care about whether they get to see their family more than two hours a day? No, of course they don't. Workers aren't saints, they are out for their own advantage, and they are no more entitled to my respect than anyone else who cares only about his own hide. Not talking about all workers here. I have nothing against workers who aren't political - thankfully the majority of them - or who aren't egoists pretending to be altruistic.

>homosexuality

See above, what I said on drugs.

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 No.101930

>>101892

>worker's """""""rights""""""""

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 No.102143

>>101892

Wait a minute… It took you A COUPLE OF MONTHS to figure this out? … Low IQ indeed.

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File: aff3a7bf794fc82⋯.png (1.07 MB,750x738,125:123,the black race has more di….png)

 No.101505 [Open thread]

>m-m-muh statists!

>m-m-muh state is the enemy!

<a jew is pointing a gun at me, cleary the gun is the boogymen and anyone who wants a gun is a bootlicker!

why are leftists/libertarians so retarded?

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 No.102106

>>102100

If you put Hoppe and Doolittle on the same category, you very well may be retarded.

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 No.102108

>>102104

Science is subjective and conditioned by our culture.

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 No.102109

File: 25ace321be68b82⋯.jpg (248.89 KB,1600x1103,1600:1103,Pol Pot2.jpg)

>>102106

Being retarded just means superiority. Retards usually have missionary sex. Intellectuals prep their wife's bull and gargle Nigger semen

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 No.102112

>>102108

Scientific data is objective, else it isn't science. What is studied is subjective and cultural. The questions may be subjective but the answers aren't. It goes similarly with philosophy.

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 No.102138

>>102104

>>102112

>The answers aren't

What are "the answers"?

Scientific data is just data. Data is interpreted by a human, and often application of science involves extrapolation to an unknown situation (e.g. the future). In the act of extrapolation (more commonly known as "engineering") someone had to have made a judgment call on what the data meant–if it is applicable to the desired use case, if the methods used to take it were precise enough that the data can be relied upon. No matter how well the data was taken, when trying to predict the future there is uncertainty. Unless the only thing you're trying to prove is "within this specific sample of this specific population at this specific time, the sample proportion of faggots was .56", there is an element of subjectivity involved in making statements or designing systems based on scientific data.

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File: 56de33f165b1ea9⋯.jpg (102.29 KB,1024x1018,512:509,1555267652243.jpg)

 No.102135 [Open thread]

Why do Sowell and Friedman schlob the central banks knobs so thoroughly? I finished basic econ by sowell, tried to read rothbard but had to put it down because of the never ending purity spiral of his thought, and and about halfaay through Friedman capitalism and freedom when it struck me what had been nagging at me. Both of these believers in freedom went out of their way to apologize for the central bank, and fractional reserve banking as a whole. It seems fairly obvious to me that fractional reserve banking is not only a dangerous activity that distorts the market by inflating the money supply, but is also something akin to fraud, not only on the depositor for what amounts to stealing his money that is supposed to be earning interest, but also on the borrowers of the bank that are borrowing phantom money that only exists because no one actually asked to see the physical money.

Am I misinterpreting?

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File: 8cf0c2bc9c5c85b⋯.jpg (32.93 KB,595x335,119:67,aristocracy.jpg)

 No.102086 [Open thread]

The French disease- republicanism. Hand in hand with equality.

>Freedom becomes a positive good only in the hands of those willing, and able, to make proper use of it. It is nothing short of an evil in the hands of criminals or morally profligate.

>Liberty too widely spread becomes a curse, and furthermore, dooms itself to its own extinction. Reaction or foreign invasion have become the lot any society which have freed its masses.

>The state of the aristocratic subject is not one of dejection, but one of pride. To be subject to an aristocrat's laws is to have any elite who is concerned for your well-being- how much better than the cold indifference of the elite of the republic…

>Liberty is a thing of pride for the aristocrat precisely because it signifies his sovereignty, independence, superior culture, and hence, his worthiness to conduct his own affairs. In the hands of the republican freedom becomes the privilege of all, and thus of none. It no longer signifies any special worth- rather, it shows one's barbarism; one's descent from a lawless region.

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 No.102095

File: a91d4260b9ca775⋯.jpg (114.98 KB,387x581,387:581,20190509_044531.jpg)

>using liberty and equality interchangeably

Shiggy.

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 No.102096

The British disease is AIDS brought to you by William Of Sodom

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 No.102119

>>102095

Universal liberty has been based on the idea of universal equality (ie equal worth among men). Traditionally it was realised that men's varying capabilities required varying levels of freedom.

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 No.102123

File: 15c710b5dcba8f1⋯.png (375.59 KB,602x454,301:227,ClipboardImage.png)

>>102119

>that men's varying capabilities required varying levels of freedom.

is communism right?

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 No.102124

liberty or freedom is a myth.

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File: 211f7eb522baaee⋯.webm (2.34 MB,800x452,200:113,1498173430759949281.webm)

 No.102082 [Open thread]

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