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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: 22eca601f0cf7ab⋯.jpeg (32.28 KB,220x279,220:279,5D4679E5-F921-4427-BCC3-8….jpeg)

 No.100305 [Open Thread]

>why should I embrace repulicanism?

Our political system is broke to fuck but anarchists and libertarians cannot make valid arguments to protect consumers from monopolies. One of the only functions of the government is to protect it’s citizens part of that is breaking up monopolies that fuck the consumer over.

>reeeeee government causes monopolies what about my diseconomy and copyright laws!

As far as I can tell diseconomies aren’t a thing that can exist in a advanced society, And while copyright needs to be reformed copyright laws have the ability to benefit the consumer i.e. if I buy a Ruger pistol I know it’s actually made by Rive and while copyright needs to be reformed copyright laws have the ability to benefit the consumer i.e. if I buy a Ruger pistol I know it’s actually made by ruger, an the name means something. Also its fair to the person who made ruger to benefit souly from it for a time.

The libertarian an anarchist are forced to make Fringe arguments that you need a political science degree to understand and no ones sure if they actually work. A Republican can make an almost intuitive argument from a classical liberal perspective while still championing a small weak government.

I know the party is garbage with neocons but the foundation and ideas are still a sound is ever. So This thread is for arguing about that and general discussion.

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 No.100315

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File: 714dbaff3458e33⋯.png (51.41 KB,1360x768,85:48,lebudget.png)

 No.99939 [Open Thread]

http://usa.v1.abalancingact.com/

Show me your budgets /liberty/.

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 No.100207

>>99980

>yes to Communist shit

>no to Military

You moron. No to all I can understand, but this is just pure retardery.

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 No.100211

File: eee205e8e1a1f25⋯.png (77.76 KB,555x849,185:283,ClipboardImage.png)

File: 70eea86ceeb201e⋯.png (40.98 KB,551x509,551:509,ClipboardImage.png)

>>100207

He did reduce the spending to zero, the website is just retarded and still assumes Medicare and Social security have costs to maintain even if you set everything to zero.

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 No.100213

>>100211

yeah why can't you just completely cut welfare and Medicare?

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 No.100215

>>100213

This is my issue with ALL of these fucking budget calculators (ESPECIALLY >>100206 , you niggerfaggot). You can't line item by department, you have to do only the options the thinktank who made it will let you do.

In this case, if you read the popup, they explain their asinine reasoning.

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 No.100275

>>100207

I'm not autistic enough to adjust the other settings as it would take too long.

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File: 1318be6aca182e8⋯.jpg (66.48 KB,640x350,64:35,Seuthopolis-3.jpg)

File: 03e7691ea94404f⋯.jpg (49.52 KB,500x371,500:371,2ac1baa52ccc196cc25b380659….jpg)

File: dd18f13d7b623aa⋯.jpg (35.79 KB,563x330,563:330,e5129060cb73e94a352405cb3f….jpg)

File: 6fda664935b3267⋯.jpg (55.29 KB,541x406,541:406,826a728b189543a38847b04e87….jpg)

File: 5c21e7b18ff78b2⋯.jpg (35.57 KB,550x393,550:393,2035e5bd245b588a6e607174e1….jpg)

 No.100043 [Open Thread]

If you had a few spare billion dollars lying around, how would you spend them, /liberty/? I would invest it into these island structures and build ancap in some warm part of the ocean.

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 No.100101

>>100069

>The US Navy would suck my cock, if I had a billion dollars, I'd invest in nuclear defenses.

https://worldwarwings.com/when-pepsi-controlled-the-worlds-6th-largest-navy/

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 No.100106

>>100101

>“I’m dismantling the Soviet Union faster than you are.”

Based. What a great read, I didn't know about this. Maybe the US would be such a communist shithole in comparison to us that they would sell their own navy along with its gay sailors in exchange for some products we have.

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 No.100153

File: 4856f0404184f70⋯.png (123.98 KB,1080x409,1080:409,( ( reading fiction instea….png)

I'd dead afraid of being swalloed by a whale or something, you guys will need a really big island if you want me in there

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 No.100237

>>100106

US government was always 3/4 communist even in the cold war, fucks sake we were funding food and agri subsidies for USSR which helped them divert their own funds to military growth. Commies WON the cold war, they control the west now. Russia and China are less socialist than any Western country.

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 No.100255

>>100237

>we were funding food and agri subsidies for USSR

Not just that. Who bought their oil and gas?

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File: 4b2d699e6053dd7⋯.png (512.33 KB,3400x2400,17:12,battle-related-deaths-in-s….png)

File: 833fbec8f0788b0⋯.jpg (27.64 KB,600x356,150:89,homicide-rates-in-five-wes….jpg)

File: 6b4980ac4b78885⋯.jpg (19.08 KB,564x364,141:91,homicide-rates-in-the-unit….jpg)

 No.99891 [Open Thread]

I got deleted from /pol/ and bumplocked on /leftypol/. I'll try here too just for the fun of it:

The world is not as bad as you think it is. We actually live in one of the most peaceful times in history.

https://ourworldindata.org/

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 No.100144

>>100138

>t. nigger

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 No.100177

>unironic Whiggism

Into the trash it goes.

>but muh data

Remind that data isn't worth shit. Samuelson looked at muh data in 1987 and thought the Soviet Union would overtake the US in a decade.

>>99958

>the internet

Literally a giant behavioural sink.

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 No.100178

>>99891

Statistics only go till 2010.

Invasion of Europe first started in 2014.

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 No.100185

File: b800abb76463ad5⋯.jpeg (9.04 KB,256x197,256:197,downdload (1).jpeg)

>>99960

YEAH BECAUSE THERE ARE NO RETARDED WHITE PEOPLE RIGHT?????

INB4 THEY ARE ALL JEWS..

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 No.100229

>>100058

You can try. There's no reason to argue that things are great if they are great. It'd be obvious to everyone from how amazing life would be. Furthermore people living in a prosperous life don't post on imageboards. They're off living their life. Their wonderful, beautiful lives.

>>100185

<Niggers are universally, definitively dimwitted

<Therefore, there's nothing wrong with treating them as property

>YEAH BECAUSE THERE ARE NO RETARDED WHITE PEOPLE RIGHT?????

Not only have you posted an obvious non-sequitur, but your shift key has clearly become broken from your repeated posting of absolute garbage. I don't even have to use hyperbole to demonstrate how terrible your post is, an actual direct quote is sufficient.

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File: e84392fc3eee2d9⋯.png (356.76 KB,646x518,323:259,driving-mad.png)

 No.100179 [Open Thread]

So ein Hurensohn

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File: bb5d6e22a873711⋯.jpg (60.99 KB,741x568,741:568,1519224112546.jpg)

 No.98856 [Open Thread]

where does /liberty/ stand on individualism and collectivism?

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 No.100005

>>99994

Isnt it about what has more value?

Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that emphasizes the moral worth of the individual.

Collectivism is a cultural value that is characterized by emphasis on cohesiveness among individuals and "prioritization of the group over self."

Simple wiki definition ofc, but seems exclusive to me

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 No.100010

>>98864

I think this explains it the best.

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 No.100011

>>99166

>the chan

Oh shit anons, he speaks for the chan!

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 No.100017

>>100005

Value doesn't exist in a vacuum. Both have different values in different contexts.

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 No.100027

>>100017

Well, I get what you mean, I guess the problem arises when it's not voluntary, which seems to be the case more often than not with collectivism.

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File: 80bf1daa846ff5f⋯.jpg (59.8 KB,480x563,480:563,leftypol-marx.jpg)

 No.99693 [Open Thread]

Welcome to 8chan, newniggers! I know, since you've discovered this place, you've been trying to find a home for political discussion. Unfortunately, /liberty/ doesn't suit your political views. That's fine. There's a great alternative waiting for you:

>>>/leftypol/

Hope to see you there!

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 No.99740

>>99711

It's still an improvement over THIS board.

>>99731

That board is like getting in a fight in a redneck bar that only has three people in it while the bartender suspiciously eyes you with a gun, while this board is like getting in a fight in a gay bar that has ten people in it–five of which are sucking each others' dicks in the bathroom in the back, two are constantly complaining about how shit the place is, and all the while the bartender doesn't give a shit about what's going on.

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 No.99741

File: 61e62849f204f51⋯.png (32.03 KB,309x500,309:500,TyrannosaurusRex.png)

>>99740

Dude, for the hundredth time, insults lose their punch when they get too convoluted! I had to read this twice before I could be offended.

Pic unrelated, but nice to look at.

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 No.99748

Hey /liberty/, don't you guys ever get tired of searching all over the internet for the hottest cuck porn? Come visit >>>/pol/ to find it all in one place!

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 No.99772

>>99740

Yeah there are leftist people here that hate this board and actively work to undermine it, of course well meaning people are a leg up… but that's like being smarter than a nigger, it's not an achievement.

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 No.99989

>>99748

So we can talk fascist fucks that are too retarded to tie their own shoelaces?

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File: d2d49ae6063423b⋯.jpg (17.62 KB,407x406,407:406,1552576254984.jpg)

 No.99614 [Open Thread]

When a libertarian decries the minimum wage, they are only focusing on the costs the employers’ face, that is what is seen. However, they fail to notice the unseen, namely that as employees wages are higher, they spend more, hence sales and revenues of a business rises. Minimum wage doesn't create unemployment. The broken window fallacy that the libertarians use so often shows that we could have a minimum wage law. Further the broken window fallacy is retarded because it can apply to the private sector too. If a restaurant owner sets up a restaurant aren't other owners being deprived of rental space? Libertarians also like to say that the public sector cannot create jobs. But they do not realize that the public sector brought the world out of the Great Depression via the military. They also say that there shouldn't be any public spending during a recession but they do not realize that people have less money to spend in the private sector because very few people have jobs.

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 No.99803

>>99790

>discord

Still, thanks anon.

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 No.99903

>>99790

that link doesn't work anon

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 No.99954

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 No.99956

>>99954

shit, thanks

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 No.99982

>>99756

>Philosophy PhD

In my experience, these guys are just as bad as Marxists, because they just start arguing semantics as soon as they get cornered in an argument.

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File: 7187692688536df⋯.png (4.97 KB,220x80,11:4,uhmzog.png)

File: ec6b62ec8a4fed8⋯.png (1021.51 KB,720x868,180:217,kobayashi41.png)

 No.98413 [Open Thread]

Sometimes I wonder whether it would be a good idea to go onto commie forums, pretend I was communist, but then troll them by attacking the in-group by saying that they are not communist enough. Just try to get ideological opponents to falter by making them accelerate to the most extreme possible opinions possible. Just destroy any modicum of moderate political opinions that the left have.

I kind of feel like this has already been going on without my doing anything anyways.

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 No.99575

File: cad338b2c3b340c⋯.jpg (48.88 KB,720x709,720:709,Commies and economics.jpg)

>>98413

>I kind of feel like this has already been going on without my doing anything anyways.

Realistically so, communists tend to do this by themselves because of the many fuck-up variations of socialism that exist as is, Ju-che, ancom, demsocs, etc etc. It's already a bunch of fragmented retards screaming at each other. What you're essentially doing is just what they've already been doing to themselves.

I mean if you want to run 24 hr ops like that, go ahead but commies are already fragmented to high hell as it is.

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 No.99578

File: 2acd424d9c9aebd⋯.png (191.22 KB,392x336,7:6,2acd424d9c9aebd85a658352b1….png)

>>99559

>It's shown me it was a bullshit idea to possibly think

>Three days after when very little has happened yet

Anon, we're just getting started.

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 No.99579

You Nazis ARE commies lol

National Socialism is still a form of socialism you fucking idiots

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 No.99580

>>99579

Who are you responding to?

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 No.99965

>>99580

He must think this is /pol/ lol

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File: 04f834711a24c1f⋯.jpg (702.26 KB,1500x1125,4:3,Jackson-Portrait (1).jpg)

 No.99934 [Open Thread]

after studying economic history I can see that a central bank is needed. When Andrew Jackson ended the central bank and implemented a "hard money" policy he caused a huge depression.

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 No.99946

>>99934

A huge depression, known as the slow depression, where growth averaged 7-10% per year once you correct for deflationary pressure.

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 No.99948

>>99944

in the states there's no law saying you can't use anything else for a voluntary exchange.

Milton Friedman even had this critique of Hayek's writings on monetary policy

>Hayek's writings of the 1970s on monetary reform. Noting Hayek's vigorous defense of "invisible hand" evolution that Hayek claimed has created better economic institutions than could be created by rational design, Friedman pointed out the irony that Hayek was then proposing to replace the monetary system thus created with a deliberate construct of his own design. Moreover, Friedman noted, there is nothing in current law to prevent voluntary bilateral exchange via any medium freely accepted by two parties.

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 No.99949

>>99948

>nothing in current law to prevent voluntary bilateral exchange via any medium freely accepted by two parties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_dollar_%28private_currency%29#Legal_issues

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 No.99951

>>99949

Also, legal tender laws and capital gains taxes against commodities (like gold/silver) is the standard argument taken, but I wanted to show a concrete case of how there definitely is legal issues. Similar issues happened to a private currency in Florida (Cruz, I believe was his name), and to a few online gold banks that used to be operating ten or twenty years ago. There are plenty of legal issues. The U.S. government does NOT want these to start up.

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 No.99959

>>99944

>but in the constitution I would prohibit the State from making people use the notes issued by the central bank/government.

And as we all know, no government would ever dare overstep the limits placed on them by their constitution (or worse yet, ignore the constitution entirely). It's literally impossible for such a thing to happen.

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File: e3370fbf8d11eae⋯.jpg (238.34 KB,630x883,630:883,rolf harris.jpg)

 No.99852 [Open Thread]

REMINDER THAT ROLF HARRIS IS INNOCENT

>Rolf Harris: Why We Know He Is Innocent.

https://www.rolfharrisisinnocent.com/

>Rolf Harris should have been given a retrial.

http://barristerblogger.com/2017/11/19/rolf-harris-given-retrial/

>Rolf Harris and the case of the sleeping Metropolitan Policeman: Bias and Unfairness in the Rolf Harris Trial

https://rationalthoughtprocess.wordpress.com/2017/09/01/rolf-harris-and-the-case-of-the-sleeping-metropolitan-policeman-bias-and-unfairness-in-the-rolf-harris-trial/

>Rolf Harris - Beyond reasonable doubt?

https://misesuk.org/2014/07/05/rolf-harris-beyond-reasonable-doubt-2-attachments/

>Rolf Harris is a victim of a heinous conspiracy.

https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2017/01/25/rolf-harris-is-a-victim-of-heinous-conspiracy/

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 No.99888

How do they prove such allegations when the supposed acts occurred decades ago?

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File: c04b120df2781b6⋯.jpg (164.93 KB,750x885,50:59,welcome.jpg)

 No.99857 [Open Thread]

BO, I know you lurk here at least occasionally. I've learned to appreciate the hands-off moderation, but could we please change the image in the stickied post to be something other than that political compass? You have DemSoc and honest-to-God statism listed in the "welcome" zone. Neither of those, and arguably nothing in the bottom-left quadrant, belong in the welcome zone.

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 No.99876

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 No.99877

>>99876

>>>/larpaganism/

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 No.99881

>>99857

Hey, i remember the very same thread with this very picture long ago.

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 No.99882

>>99881

There was a similar but not identical threat a while back. If I recall correctly, OP was bitching about the BO's moderation policy rather than the sticky.

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 No.99883

File: a55352dd2035a7d⋯.jpg (68.93 KB,564x397,564:397,Hoppe_on_immigration.jpg)

>>99861

It's a symbol against white genocide

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File: e9afc496be95e74⋯.jpg (1.35 MB,2000x3334,1000:1667,same.jpg)

 No.98500 [Open Thread]

Socialists:

>profit is theft

>profit is unearned wages

Libertarians:

>taxation is theft

>taxes are unearned wages

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 No.98507

>>98500

>I want to stop giving profit to X

<stop buying from/working for X

>I want to stop paying taxes

<put in cage, dog killed by ATF

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 No.98517

what is profit?

profit is revenue minus expenses, where expenses are all expenses. sometimes some expenses are hidden, such as the owner of a business not including his wages in his calculation because, to him, all his profits and all his wages are the same (money in his pocket). some argue that in an efficient business, there would be no profit, because the price would be just above the cost, so the revenue would be just above expenses. however, if the transaction was agreed to voluntarily by each effected party, and each involved party was well informed, then each party benefited, or at least was not harmed, by the transaction occurring. if no-one would benefit, then there's no point in expending effort trying to make a change, so the effect must be net positive. if there's a positive, that means there was more benefit than cost, which means there is profit. where does the profit go? what's the fair way to distribute the profit? if only some parties get all the profit, then it's unfair, because they'll have a disproportionate increase in capital power. whether it's the employees, or the business owners, or the customers (as in the above example), or whoever else, is not important (though mitigation strategies may depend on who unfairly benefits). what i think makes sense is for some part of the profits being distributed among everyone equally as contributing to a sort of universal basic income (how much of the profits will go to this? this needs to be decided), and the rest to be distributed proportionate to how much each party contributed to the project (how is it decided how much one contributed to the project? this is a question that needs to be answered). the safety net is there without deterring the incentives, which are also there.

it's not the profit that is theft, it's the unfair distribution of profit that some people force on others which is akin to theft.

libertarians are against theft, because they are against violence (though some exclude violence which is 'necessary' to ensure restitution is completed), and theft (misappropriation) is a form of property violence. taxes are also a form of property violence, where the government uses coercion (credible threats) to scare you into paying, and if you don't, they 'make good', so to speak, on their threats by jailing you and forcibly appropriating (which is a form of misapproprPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.98526

File: 0d1cfcde62f2780⋯.jpg (71.76 KB,680x680,1:1,f54.jpg)

>>98500

Socialists:

>breathe

>drink water

Libertarians:

>breathe

>drink water

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 No.99878

GR8 b8 m8

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 No.99879

>>99878

>bumping this shit thread

kys

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.99782 [Open Thread]

>That moment when Gray realizes that Anarchy is good for business

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 No.99860

That game looks fun, gonna give it a try.

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 No.99867

>>99789

I don't get it. What's the context for this?

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 No.99868

File: d738d9f74b7ddf7⋯.png (912.38 KB,674x960,337:480,ClipboardImage.png)

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 No.99869

File: 6371ebb8f1f6b39⋯.jpg (242.41 KB,700x553,100:79,scaled_full_c4da6df5609a8d….jpg)

File: 4f6ed1b0e984f3d⋯.jpg (34.56 KB,640x356,160:89,3lSpqUP.jpg)

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 No.99870

>>99867

Left coast states have banned plastic straws.

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File: 50ff49c938f4bfa⋯.jpg (93.61 KB,718x960,359:480,muslims.jpg)

 No.99573 [Open Thread]

I think one of the limits to liberty is believing in philosophical systems that run contrary to liberty.

If you, as a libertarian, want to invite muslims into your country… you are fucking retarded and probably not a libertarian.

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 No.99796

>>99781

>They are not any more committed than Christians.

Just to play devil's advocate, the autist has somewhat of a point here, especially when you consider you have something of a sampling bias (you're speaking to Muslims that live and/or grew up in the West). There are a good few moderate, Westernized kebabs in the West, yes. However, the statistics do show that a far greater proportion of non-extremist Muslims have either support or sympathy for terrorist groups compared to the proportion of non-extremist Christians that support violent or terrorist Christians. Even in "moderate" countries like Turkey, surveys show upwards of 40% of the moderates there supported Al-Qaeda.

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 No.99813

>>99573

It’s a mix of appeal to hypocrisy and the Chinese robber fallacy.

Terrorism is bad regardless of who does it. Muh Christians or muh Muslims doesn’t matter that much because while there may be 463 attacks by Muslims, there’s still around a billion and a half Muslims who aren’t terrorists.

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 No.99831

>>99778

Beliefs "core to your identity" can and do change as well. People don't spring fully-formed commies from the womb, they need years of molding in the public schools before their worldviews shift.

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 No.99854

>>99813

The muslim problem is similar to the jew problem; most don't actually do the dirty work but they don't speak against it either, and some actually encourage it, to the delight of the actual perpetrators of the crimes, who can enjoy from that tribal protection and claim to be a victim when the inevitable backlash happens. You can't say they're outright criminals but you also can't say they're totally innocent either. Of course it doesn't justify some random shooting but you can see why someone would be baited into doing that assuming it wasn't just a false flag which it probably was

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 No.99862

>>99854

what dont jews speak against?

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