No.98856
where does /liberty/ stand on individualism and collectivism?
____________________________
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.98864
If it is voluntary,, then both are acceptable bu individualism is preferable.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.98865
If you want to join a collective, you're free to do that. If you don't want to, you don't. The market will indicate which strategy is the best most successful, although I believe it will trend at least least a mildly towards collectivism, as there are advantages to being part of an in-group.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.98866
False dichotomy. Every human is part of some collective and every human is also an individual.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.98871
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99157
nuclear family is socialism prove me wrong
we gotta stop giving babies handouts
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99162
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>99157
>nuclear family
>socialism
???
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99163
>>99157
The cost of children isn't an imposition because the parent chose to conceive
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99165
>>99157
>M-muh nuclear family
Not a socialist myth, they are more about public brothels and eradicating all bonds of family, just ask Marx, Bebel, Mao or Cottrell/Cockdick.
It's still a meme, if it's supposed to be about just the nuclear family. Which, sadly, is often the case nowadays, but not always. So-called conservatives keep talking about a husband, wife, and two or three children, and nothing more. What about cousins? Grandparents?
Here in Germany, for a long time, the idea was that a household is a man, a woman, a few children, and that's it. Grandparents live in a house for the elderly, cousins live separately, same with aunts or uncles. If the children reach eighteen years or so, they move out. It was a retarded expectation, and it died out precisely for that reason. If you live alone and just entered your job, you will have a hard time being able to afford your own apartment.
Another problem with the nuclear family meme is that it forgets about supporting family members once they are outside the household. It's not just socialists who kick the elderly out of the household and leave them to the state, it's also conservatards.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99166
/liberty/ doesn’t stand anywhere, it’s as fake as the rest of the chan. People don’t really come here to have fun, they come here to pretend hatred is fun.
I coooould try to contribute thought, but why? You used a frog meme. Pass.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99167
>>99165
well, family means extended family. Only stupid boomers think family is people who live in your house and then you throw them out at a certain point because the jews said so.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99168
>>98856
I'd call myself a personalist. I acknowledge that people do not exist or develop in a vacuum, that much of the meaning we derive from the world lies in the social relationships we have, and that you can hardly live a good life outside society. However, it is precisely because of these facts that I find collectivism abhorrent. Humans are social animals, so to uproot them and substitute the "leader" for their father, some opportunistic brigand for their community, citizens for sisters and brothers, and a bunch of state-sponsored prostitutes for their wifes and husbands, is an abomination. Also, the acting unit is the individual person, therefore, I am a methodological individualist.
I do think that most individualists would agree with me, special cases with special needs, like Stirner or Ayn Rand, perhaps aside.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99211
>>99163
rothbard said not feeding kids does not break NAP
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99212
>>99211
only if the parent cannot afford to do so
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99213
>>99212
No, >>99211 is right, Rothbard did not qualify this. He did say that if you do not feed your kids, you do not break the NAP. I would say, and most libertarians would probably agree with me, that Rothbard was simply wrong on this. I admire the man, and he was a main influence on me, but his word is not the Gospel.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99240
>>99211
It's not a violation of the NAP but it's also an evil
The second great commandment "do unto others" is in the active and in the passive
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99258
Rothbard was correct you faggot nigger kike
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99263
>>99258
>no argument
>random image
>>>/trash/
>>99211
having kids is an implicit contract. Rothbard was wrong and autistic
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99293
>>99157
Conceiving children is a violation of the NAP. Feeding them is restitution.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99294
She's all about individualism.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99310
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99448
>>98856
Voluntary association.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99992
>>98866
How is this a false dichotomy? You either give value to individuals over the collective or you don't because "the values of collective" outweigh the values of the individual.
Individualism is the basis of freedom imho
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.99994
>>99992
Why is valuing the individual and valuing the collective mutually exclusive?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.100005
>>99994
Isnt it about what has more value?
Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that emphasizes the moral worth of the individual.
Collectivism is a cultural value that is characterized by emphasis on cohesiveness among individuals and "prioritization of the group over self."
Simple wiki definition ofc, but seems exclusive to me
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.100010
>>98864
I think this explains it the best.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.100011
>>99166
>the chan
Oh shit anons, he speaks for the chan!
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.100017
>>100005
Value doesn't exist in a vacuum. Both have different values in different contexts.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.100027
>>100017
Well, I get what you mean, I guess the problem arises when it's not voluntary, which seems to be the case more often than not with collectivism.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.