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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: 677a2ac67ce50dd⋯.png (85.71 KB,650x336,325:168,United_Kingdom_unemploymen….png)

 No.99799 [Open Thread]

Under Thatcher the free market Prime Minister the unemployment rates skyrocketed. Gee I wonder why? is it because she was opposed to government spending??!

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 No.99853

>>99850

because those jobs were useless in the first place

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 No.99886

She was a fucking moron, who trashed strategic industries, created misery for the fun of it, hated govt spending but ran huge deficits anyway - despite running into a ton of oil and selling everything that wasn't nailed down, and kicking off a process of financialization that has landed the UK with some of the biggest debts, most overvalued property, and most over-leveraged banks in the world. Just an all round disaster. Never, ever, let a woman run a country.

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 No.99887

File: 62780b1b0a105eb⋯.png (108.25 KB,500x372,125:93,government-spending-real-1….png)

There was an overall net increase in public and welfare expenditure during Thatcher's term. How can one consider this "deregulatory" or "pro free market"?

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 No.105900

Wow.

Americans think legalized drugs means drug use is mandated.

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 No.105904

Americans say WWIII will never happen, but Americans also used to think that WWII would never start.

Americans used to think that the Titanic would never sink.

Romans thought Rome would never collapse.

Get your head out of the sand.

Wake up.

Look what is going down.

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File: 7c45746564c0ecc⋯.png (21.97 KB,929x552,929:552,theftpass.png)

 No.100249 [Open Thread][Last 50 Posts]

How do you define 'liberty'?

Is it a dichotomy or is it a continuum?

If the latter, what does it mean for someone to be freer or less free than someone else?

53 posts and 20 image replies omitted. Click [Open Thread] to view. ____________________________
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 No.100817

>>100744

>individuals have right of ownership over … goods that they have created

That's communism.

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 No.100818

>>100817

except they do not recognize private property rights, so they do not truly "own" anything

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 No.100819

>>100817

No. The owners of factories have a valid right to the equipment and infrastructure of that factory, since their suppliers had valid right of ownership over the equipment and transferred it to the owners. The owners of factories are not obligated to let workers use this infrastructure for free. The employment contract that workers, of their own free will, agree to, grants right of ownership over the goods that the workers create (this right of ownership was freely transferred from the worker to the owner) in exchange for payment and use of factory infrastructure.

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 No.100825

>>100819

>valid right

>free will

>right of ownership

Feel free to prove that any of these not only exist, but are inherently coherent concepts which can exist.

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 No.105903

Those who praise tyranny are mentally ill.

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File: b03d86c11a3ccd0⋯.jpg (19.44 KB,300x445,60:89,Human Action.jpg)

 No.100343 [Open Thread]

Okay, be honest, which one of you statist faggots infesting our board has actually read this book?

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 No.100359

>>100343

A better question would be how many of us lolbergs have read it. I'm 40% of the way through. Excellent quality, but one of the driest books I've ever read.

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 No.100372

>>100343

Did they make a movie of it that I can watch?

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 No.100373

>>100343

Read Rothbard’s Man, Economy, and State first.

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 No.100381

>>100346

Very nice!

>>100359

Also very nice, 40% is good progress.

>>100372

No, literally read a book.

>>100373

I am about 60% through with MES, I read Human Action before that. I like both very much, but perhaps MES is easier to start with for most people. For me, Human Action was better, because it went more in depth on the methodological stuff. To each his own.

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 No.105902

One of the reasons the US is collapsing now is that Americans think that decay will be stopped by becoming Fascists and Communists.

Americans think the US will be improved by expanding wars, increasing the debt, and adding more tyranny when the reason the USA is crashing is because the US has wars, is in debt, and has a police state.

Americans say that they love freedom, but then they turn around and say they need the government to give them free Obamacare, build a wall, protect the US from Yemen, wiretap their phones, arrest people for feeding the homeless, stop farmers from plowing fields, force people to get rid of dogs, ban vaping, and torture suspects.

Every country has the government it deserves.

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File: 47b7fbd0e70eece⋯.png (42.28 KB,1200x800,3:2,56182406_2123724901048842_….png)

 No.102346 [Open Thread]

>be me

>be ancap

>keep arguing with normies "no dont be stupid anarcho capitalism is not neo feudalism"

>reads history

>discovers that feudalism is actually very based

>realizes that ancaps might as well be neo feudalists but thats actually a good thing

Anyone else or I just actually lost my mind?

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 No.104083

>>104066

>>104082

When Hitler took power a recovery was already underway and unemployment was decreasing. A restoration of normality could have happened under any government.

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 No.104093

Oh hey, this thread is still around. I was about to respond to

>>102577

>>104066

But

>>102578

>>104082

Beat me to it again with a much "better" thought-out response along very similar lines.

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 No.104094

File: 3e49585971434de⋯.png (417.83 KB,900x660,15:11,1555205940754.png)

>>104066

It was more like

>Germany is coming out of depression on its own

>Take over

>Artificially speed the process up in true Keynesian fashion before Keynes was a thing by investing at the mid-point production instead of in R&D

>Economy looks great on the surface but is a giant spending bubble about to collapse

>Don't even have as good of cars as the Americans who fuck around

>Take on loans to fund projects

>International bankers won't even fucking invest in your economy because they can see your Jewish scheme from a mile away

>Beg America and Great Britain for loans

>America and Great Britain have an active interest in seeing the German economy restored and getting it back on its feet

>They send what would now days be tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars against their better judgement

>NSDAP friction-welds their hands together - "we got 'em"

>Invest nonstop into public makework projects that produce zero real wealth

>Nationalize businesses and kill what was a recovering local economy in exchange for a paper tiger of a "booming" economy

>America and Britain ask for Germany to start showing the fruits of their labor and start paying back shekels with artificially low interest rates on them, even if slowly

>Have the audacity to demand more money

>Great Britain calls Germany on their bullshit

>America is nice enough to send what now days would be several billion dollars MORE on top of what they gave them previously, but tells Germany they'll cut them off so they need to get their shit together

>NSDAP Germany decides on an expertly Jewish scheme

>Declare the reichsmark and try to use it to pay off dPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.104196

>>102523

what board do you think you are on.

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 No.105901

If Communism doesn't work in Cuba then why do Americans want Communism in the USA?

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File: ccadfda02822c98⋯.png (49.81 KB,877x596,877:596,ClipboardImage.png)

 No.99964 [Open Thread]

How do you fuck up so hard?

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 No.99971

>>99964

https://mises.org/wire/gdp-growth-not-same-thing-real-economic-growth

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 No.99972

Why does share of global gdp matter?

There's a billion Asians now, most of them in slum conditions. Theres money in that part of the world and I get cheap products from it. Where's the problem?

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 No.100424

>>99964

Asia is just growing faster than EU and US. But all three grow, so it is good for all three.

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 No.100426

>>99971

GDP is really just "Maximum taxable income" of the country. It's a statistic sovereign nations collate so they can more easily get loans.

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 No.105899

Americans laugh and say everyone in jail should be executed, but what will you say when you get arrested for buying a gun, using hate speech, remaining silent, or owning a stove?

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.101164 [Open Thread]

>It will be an offence to view terrorist material online just once – and could incur a prison sentence of up to 15 years – under new UK laws.

>The Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill was granted Royal Assent yesterday, updating a previous Act and bringing new powers to law enforcement to tackle terrorism.

>But a controversial inclusion was to update the offence of obtaining information "likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism" so that it now covers viewing or streaming content online.

>The rules as passed into law are also a tightening of proposals that had already been criticised by human rights groups and the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, Max Hill.

>Originally, the proposal had been to make it an offence for someone to view material three or more times – but the three strikes idea has been dropped from the final Act.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/02/13/uk_counter_terror_act_royal_assent/

>Viewing terrorist propaganda online in the UK could now land you in jail - under a new law that's just come into force. Government says the new measure is aimed at preventing terror attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptNN5MEhioI

First they lock up the guy exposing the criminals who run our governments (and threaten to extradite him to a US supermax gulag for life), and now they've passed a law where you will get 15 years in jail for viewing anything online (whether accidental or intentional) the UK government arbitrarily deems to be "terrorist material."

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 No.101203

>>101166

Why shouldn't they? What you are seeing is the natural outcome of mass democracy being allowed to run amuck.

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 No.101245

>>101166

for political gain.

why would they be honest?

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 No.101257

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

In a computerized civilization, encryption is the fundamental building block of liberty.

— Julian Assange

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 No.101274

>>101164

Well shieeeeet

So much for not using a VPN

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 No.105897

Wow.

Americans say North Korea is a huge success.

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File: 1a43ea1e0d0a538⋯.png (27.24 KB,1000x600,5:3,BITCOIN-NS-FLAG.png)

 No.95378 [Open Thread]

You Can’t Make an Alternative to Patreon Because Banks Won’t Allow It - Andrew Anglin & Weev

>dailystormer.name/you-cant-make-an-alternative-to-patreon-because-banks-wont-allow-it/

>There is no way to create an alternative funding platform, because everything is a private company. I think that probably Dave Rubin and Jordan Peterson can create something that they will be allowed to operate – probably without PayPal, but with some bank doing credit card processing. And Sargon of Akkad will be allowed on that. For now, that will be allowed. Because I think that some people realize that this whole “shut it down” program is going way, way too fast. Eventually, it won’t just be PayPal that is shutting people down, it will be all banks and Visa itself. Because banks and Visa have the ability, technically, to deny people service based on their political ideology.

Couldn't there be a Patreon alternative that solely uses cryptocurrencies instead of credit cards?

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 No.101237

>>95378

>cash-less currency, social credit system and universal income

That is the future of the western civilization after the debt usury racket nullifies the economy. And crypto is a test run, and will be outlawed once the official currency launches. This is why the west is getting violently destabilized, to prevent retaliation once the west realizes that the jews have stolen all their wealth and freedoms.

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 No.101240

>>101237

Jesus.

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 No.101246

>>95378

these ressources will be owned by someone. what central ownship will do is alignment. however there is nothing inherent about central ownership that causes the ressource to be used in a good way.

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 No.101289

Make a cryptocurrency bank?

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 No.105896

If you said that the government was wiretapping your phone in 1999, everybody would have called you a nutjob.

Now if you say that the government is wiretapping your phone, no one cares.

How can Americans sleep at night now or look in a mirror without feeling disgusted and ashamed?

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File: a90ff2fce17f2ac⋯.gif (20.18 KB,644x652,161:163,mathchart.gif)

 No.100928 [Open Thread]

I used to be a socialist when I was in my teenage years. Anyone else here have a similar past? For me, it probably started because–I shit you not–of SimCity. It was kind of cool, I mean, there's certainly much more of a social scene in socialist groups than with libertarians, and at least when I was in uni I found it a lot easier being a socialist than any other kind of ideology.

The first crack had to be how poisonous socialists really can be with each other. I mean, I understand libertarians have their own version of this, but at least I haven't seen the majority of libertarians go completely vindicative spreading every false rumor under the Sun to your entire social circle. Or how violently angered they get with you over disagreements. I mean, libertarians do the same, but at least with libertarian friends I've been able to talk to them the next day.

More importantly, there were just this pervasive, fundamental issues underlying socialism, and it had to do with this underlying and pervasive atmosphere of hubris combined with moral righteousness. "Oh, you poor African country, I know what your problem is. Here, let me fix it for you." At first, it felt good to give these sort of arguments that made me feel so much more intelligent than everyone else, or even to give to charities with this kind of thinking. But after pragmatically looking at the consistently terrible results, it's just very difficult to maintain that kind of cognitive dissonance.

That wasn't really what dealt the killer blow. It's weird, because I really liked building and engineering systems, which was why I like(d) SimCity so much, and I applied the same thinking to naturally come to a socialist position. But when I started thinking from the perspective of just how amazing self-organizing systems are (especially since they require practically NO engineering), and the natural consequence of what sort of things happen when you let others find their own way, then that was when my support for socialism finally began to dissolve and I could see all the other faults that had been building up in my thoughts over my youth.

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 No.101272

Communism doesn't work because people are self-serving shitheads. Even if everything is perfect, we seek an advantage over our fellow man. Everything is great, lets throw someone out over pointless drama! When everyone is collaborating and sharing, some psycho NEEDS to fuck everyone over and take it all for themselves. They might just destroy everything of value in the process, in that case, they just enjoy the power.

I've been in communes and seen this happen in person. These days, I've been putting trust in things I know are working. I believe in small incremental improvements and distrust people who make fantastic claims.

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 No.101273

>>101067

>Capitalism is when literally anyone can walk off the street and run the company

Is there only one company in the entire world?

This collectivist tripe, assuming "the capitalist class" has a set of uniform interests and so does "the working class", is completely ignorant of game theory and psychology. The capitalists' greatest enemy is other capitalists.

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 No.101495

>This collectivist tripe

…such as one person owning and orchestrating the collective actions of others?

Words don't mean shit to you, do they?

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 No.105885

Is there much difference between the elites who are destroying the US with wars, debt, and tyranny and the Americans who accept the wars, debt, and police state?

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 No.105895

You can't really be sure man has been to the moon, but you can be sure that the World Trade Center is no longer standing.

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.101629 [Open Thread]

we should send gifts to Janusz Waluś, the hero of our times. he is still in prison even though he served his sentence

also jakób skrzypski https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1LQ1MZ

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 No.105894

If governments cannot shut off the Internet then why did the Myanmar turn off the web?

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File: 7a83e956136d17e⋯.jpeg (6.2 KB,259x194,259:194,inde2x.jpeg)

 No.105498 [Open Thread]

As Liberty in the US seems to fade, I would like to immigrate, but gun laws suck. How can we encourage non-cucked gun laws across the world?

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 No.105540

Nigga, where are you going to immigrate to? I sorely desire a state that is more free than the US but I know not of a single one. Sweden is the only state I know of which did not implement draconian house arrest policies, but they are unfree in a number of other ways. There are parts of Africa and Asia where one can live unmolested by any government, but only if you produce nothing and decline to participate in the market.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there really is a freer alternative to the US. Please elucidate me.

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 No.105671

>>105498

>As Liberty in the US seems to fade

It is funny how much a difference a year can make. With the Covid/BLM fiasco, the elites underestimated how much the popularity of the 2nd amendment would sky rocket with the new first time gun buys, even among Democrats. I foresee a lot of "boating accidents."

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 No.105675

Ignore the whining of the state and go down shooting if they try to take your property from you.

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 No.105893

Wow.

Americans say people should be jailed for victimless crimes.

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File: 211f7eb522baaee⋯.webm (2.34 MB,800x452,200:113,1498173430759949281.webm)

 No.102082 [Open Thread]

https://people.wku.edu/charles.smith/wallace/S734.htm

was wallace a commie? :(

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 No.105892

Would crime rise if everything was legal?

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File: 60b5f8f0f82ad67⋯.jpg (77.06 KB,1161x653,1161:653,seastead.jpg)

 No.101408 [Open Thread]

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-19/libertarian-seasteaders-facing-execution-thailand-charges-violating-national

http://archive.is/u9tYY

>Despite its location just outside of Thailand's territorial waters, leaving it outside the reach of the country's laws according to international maritime law, the world's second "seastead" was raided by Thai police earlier this week as the country's military-dominated government pressed charges of violating national sovereignty against the two bitcoin enthusiasts who had lived there.

>The couple, Chad Elwartowski and his partner Supranee Thepdet, who goes by Nadia, could face life in prison or a death sentence in a Thai court if they are caught and formally charged. The two had sought to be pioneers in the seasteading movement, which advocates building structures anchored in international waters to allow people to live outside the control of governments and their laws.

>Thai authorities revoked Elwartowski's visa and said they would destroy the seastead within a week. The crackdown has dashed the couple's plans to build 'underwater restaurants' and 'floating hotels' to Phuket.

>But Thailand's navy said the couple's outpost still endangered national sovereignty, charging them with article 119 of the Thai Criminal Code, an offense punishable by life imprisonment or death.

>Build a 6m box floating in the middle of the fucking ocean

>Potentially get the death penalty for an offense as nebulous as "endangering national sovereignty"

Gee, I wonder why they wanted to move to the middle of the ocean? Seems to me "recreational nukes" will be an important prerequisite for establishing a free society in a den of tyrannical governments.

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 No.102548

You can buy floating home for $150,000 from Ocean builders.

https://ocean.builders/purchase/

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 No.102601

<people are going to die

How is that a bad thing?

>>101417

Call Peter Thiel, he sure will give a fuck about justice in Thailand.

>101417

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 No.102769

MUH BOAT MUH PROPERTY.

this is funny af though

fuck da police.

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 No.102788

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

They should have hire the private military contractors to protect their aqua castle. Like other anon said, build the aqua castle close to Australia. Australia is laid back and Aussies are happy to trade with the Seasteaders.

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 No.105891

No one under 45 years old will ever know what freedom was and almost everyone under 55 will live to see the end of the USA.

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File: 569df77cfdf58f9⋯.png (235 KB,1101x547,1101:547,8CHANMANIA_28.png)

 No.101797 [Open Thread]

WE'VE BEEN NOMINATED FOR 8CHANMANIA'S SITE WIDE EVENT!

What is it?

/v/ Nominates 32 fighters to fight for the Champion's Belt and a chance to fight in the 33rd Mania and win the season championship

This week we're having a site wide event and we want YOU to nominate a fighter, so please pick who you think represents the board the most, and then come join us at https://cytu.be/r/8chanmania on Sunday May 12th at 2pm EST to watch your fighters win!

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 No.101974

>>101964

Being tied and unable to break any sort of gridlock in a meaningful and pragmatic way would be the most /liberty/ thing I've ever heard of.

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 No.102006

I'm tiebreaking in favor of Pinochet, so he's our guy unless someone really sneaks it in.

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 No.102009

>>102006

Too bad, Big Ben is my vote.

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 No.102175

Hoppe made it to the semifinal only to get defeated by literally Nothing.

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 No.105890

Americans don't seem to understand that the USA is a police state.

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File: f0d034027465c49⋯.png (405.05 KB,3141x2593,3141:2593,increaseInRegulation.png)

 No.100800 [Open Thread]

To what extent do you think that the massive uptick and increase in financial regulation before 2008 caused the financial crisis?

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 No.100804

File: f25fc8c5bc553d2⋯.jpeg (11.76 KB,224x225,224:225,leftypolPostingInLiberty.jpeg)

>>100803

You know what, I'm all for pre-emptively posting with a post that is completely flips around the /leftypol/posts we get on this board all the time even if it is a little wrong. It shows the /leftypol/posts that we know the fucking points they're going to make well in advance: to the point where we're able to make the completely opposite point they're going to make. At the very least, maybe we'll actually hear something original instead of a repost of "le socialist Sweden" thread or "Venezuela is actually capitalist" for the gazillionth time. More importantly, libertarianism actually goes on the goddam rhetorical offensive for once instead of constantly being flooded with defense on every god damn thread on the front page.

But anyways, I think you're spot on. It's the goddam FED.

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 No.100805

>>100804

>You know what, I'm all for pre-emptively posting with a post that is completely flips around the /leftypol/posts we get on this board all the time even if it is a little wrong.

I appreciate the cheekiness as much as you do. It's just my autistic pedantry happens to override my appreciation.

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 No.100806

Capitalism gets crises. That's all there is to it.

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 No.100809

File: d94184d8ec023e7⋯.jpg (10.12 KB,236x193,236:193,1410552354762.jpg)

>>100806

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 No.105888

Americans say that the answer to tyranny is more government.

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File: 4bc701cc0ed0d2b⋯.png (311.55 KB,812x960,203:240,4bc701cc0ed0d2baa3cf753dd8….png)

 No.102373 [Open Thread]

Explain this.

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 No.102433

>>102409

>Mending a broken bone, getting medicine, having X-rays etc. Is the same as splinting it and having a wellness checkup

You're delusional, dude.

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 No.102436

>>102412

Tell that to the hundreds of third worlders who die each year drilling it. Fossil fuels are from fucking plant matter.

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 No.102437

>>102429

But what if helicopters don't exist because technology was destroyed in a nuclear holocaust

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 No.102455

File: 23e01650de4fba3⋯.png (129.99 KB,1134x1357,1134:1357,1505288440471.png)

File: 7ddfdc2de76c74f⋯.jpg (80.71 KB,726x1024,363:512,1518631119504m.jpg)

File: 06485351a17eb72⋯.jpg (210.44 KB,1024x576,16:9,1389218943999 (1).jpg)

Alright, you want to make healthcare more affordable? Here's a three step plan:

>End inflationary monetary policy

The current monetary system in the US, like in all Western countries, is designed to enrich bankers and subsidize statism by inflating the money supply, thus stealing purchasing power from workers. Eliminate this system, and costs will go down, the value of savings will increase, and real wages will increase.

>No more subsidies.

State subsidies raise the cost of purchasing health service, since the state is able to overspend at a whim, driving up the price of healthcare.

>Deregulate the medical industry

End the cartelization of the medical industry through corporatist regulation schemes, and let competition drive down the prices.

Further points to consider:

>About 65% of the American medical industry is socialized

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/01/lawrence-wilson-md/americas-socialized-health-care/

>In 2018 there was a point when 133 out of 137 hospital trusts in England had an unsafe number of patients on their wards

>people are being left for hours on trolleys in corridors and stuck in ambulances.

>more than 120 patients a day are being managed in corridors in some places, some dying prematurely

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-42572116

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 No.105887

Americans who stay quiet while the USA collapses are no better than the globalists who are destroying the US.

Is anyone responsible for anything?

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