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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

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Ya'll need Mises.

File: a1edeecb875acd5⋯.jpg (97.81 KB,680x680,1:1,af8.jpg)

 No.103200 [Open thread]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYEUHk16yk4

Hey guys,

So I'm going through this video and trying to cite what hoppe says about nazi germany and while I can find sources to prove what he says about nazi germany I CANNOT find any sources for the quotes he says comes from hitler. Can anyone help me? I assume possibly that he is pulling quotes from hitler which are originally spoken and written in german. If thats the case I'd like to have these exact quotations cited to me so that I can validate them.

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 No.103203

>>103200 (OP)

I won't do all the work for you nigger. give me the specific things you want and I'll try to find them in german, if it's about stuff hitler said, try looking in "hitler's table talk"

>https://archive.org/stream/HitlerTableTalk/Hitler%20TableTalk_djvu.txt

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 No.103205

>>103203

Obviously I'm not expecting you to find and prove every quote that is said in the speech, that would be just ridiculous. But if I could be given some sort of archive of things hitler said or wrote that would be nice. Now originally the whole reason I started watching this video was to learn if hitler's economy is TRULY socialist or not. There are quotes that are said in this speech such as hitler more or less basically saying he will centrally plan the economy. If you by the off chance knew any of these quotes off the top of your head (or really any proof to give me that his economy is basically socialist) I would appreciate it if you shared them with me.

Now right now im tired and when I wake up I'll go back through the video again and ask you precisely which of these quotes I'm looking for.

Thanks.

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 No.103207

>>103205

it depends on what you mean by socialism, in the austro-libertarian sense his economic policy was socialist or centrally planned, others would just simply call keynesian. since I can't be bothered to go through everything myself I'll just link you a mises wire article that explores this topic and provides sources and one written by lew rockwell.

>https://mises.org/library/nazi-economic-policy

>https://www.lewrockwell.com/2003/08/lew-rockwell/hitler-was-a-keynesian/

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 No.103256

>>103207

> in the austro-libertarian sense his economic policy was socialist

…and nothing about this sentence is disturbing to anyone.

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File: 99462459b2cfa7c⋯.jpg (58.47 KB,500x701,500:701,47384105_1950931991693095_….jpg)

 No.103241 [Open thread]

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/learn-disinformation-spreads-scientists-track-cryptocurrency-gets-talked/

So apparently (((DARPA))) is now subsidizing research on how to manipulate cryptocurrency markets. This is disgusting.

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 No.103244

DARPA doesn't subsidize research. They subsidize monopolies. They're going to try to create a monolithic corporate entity to control cryptocurrency markets. Count on it.

Goddam. Does everything the government does have to be so fucking depressing and make me want to kill myself?

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 No.103245

>>103241

>mapped the ebb and flow of Reddit’s discussions

That is like mapping random noise.

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 No.103250

>>103245

…Reddit is such a goddam hivemind that I sincerely doubt that there's much, if any, random noise.

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File: 1e7c6172c015e83⋯.jpg (38.74 KB,680x660,34:33,pls spoonfeed.jpg)

 No.97996 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

Old one is auto-saging. Basic questions about /liberty/, socialist "gotchas" masquerading as basic questions, etc., go here. If you have a "what about ____" question you'd like to ask that you're really, really sure will stump everyone this time, do a quick look over this list: (http://archive.is/bbtHt) before you post–chances are, someone has asked that question before, and there's already an answer or answers available to you.

300 posts and 28 image replies omitted. Click [Open thread] to view. ____________________________
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 No.103501

Even though I find anarcho-capitalism interesting I have a few hang ups. I don't necessarily want to rely on mercenaries for my defense. If others want to then fine. I just prefer to have my own guns to defend myself.

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 No.103503

How would property rights work for rivers and lakes? Say if a river goes through your property do you own that part of the river or the whole thing?

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 No.103506

If the rest of the world balkanized would it still be possible to develop advanced technology? Like space travel for example. Could developing space travel still be possible in a world that has been balkanized and consists of tiny countries since space travel was normally state sponsored? I know there could be companies doing it I just wonder if it'll be enough.

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 No.103573

Bump

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 No.103620

>>102923

I used to listen to the Vin Armani podcast. He was more of an agorist but I found it interesting because of the guests he would bring on. They would show their alternatives to the state and I do like seeing solutions to this kind of stuff. I think he changed up the podcast and doesn't post as much but it's still up on his youtube channel.

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File: ba7c4e79b5e7b48⋯.png (11.57 KB,1372x102,686:51,thoughts.png)

 No.103156 [Open thread]

Thoughts?

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 No.103171

That's democracy, OP, not capitalism.

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 No.103173

>>103167

OP is a rentier, not a welfare queen not a NEET leech.

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 No.103177

>>103156

Fagbook libertarian niggers who start threads with "thoughts?" Instead of stating their opinions or admitting they support the thing they posted deserve the rope. That's my thoughts.

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 No.103183

>>103177

Why would you say that? I am genuinely curious. :^)

Fuck the phrase "I am genuinely curious"/"I am curious." If you really were curious, you wouldn't need to declare it.

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 No.103189

File: 1744e8d4f7c0f7a⋯.png (1.08 MB,1024x1022,512:511,6475132744622.png)

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HookTube embed. Click on thumbnail to play.

 No.103109 [Open thread]

Let's talk about Kowloon. Was Kowloon ancap?

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 No.103124

>run by gangs

>ancap

what

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 No.103128

>>103124

That was in the 70s and early 80s, after then the gangs hung out there, but it wasn't really 'run by gangs.'

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 No.103132

File: 5c640f5c0bde000⋯.png (1.12 MB,1391x728,107:56,ClipboardImage.png)

>>103128

I'm just going by the video

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 No.103161

>>103124

Do you know what private contractors and private defense agencies are fag?

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 No.103172

File: 664c0ce3e253b1e⋯.gif (1.6 MB,350x197,350:197,uhmwellbutwhatabouthm.gif)

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File: acee1ae8d0c4eac⋯.png (557.79 KB,500x600,5:6,old meme.png)

 No.102648 [Open thread]

Most libertarians and minarchists refuse to acknowledge healthcare as a service that should be provided by the goverment (nothing wrong with that), while, simultaneously use a wishy washy logic to, through massive amounts of cognitive disonance, say that the local goverment should provide a firefighter service funded by everyone.

Don't get me wrong, it makes sense that minarchists defend a vigilante government that provides police, free courthouses and a small body of soldiers to defend and ONLY defend the country (no foreign intervention allowed) as law, order and stability are public goods, however, I don't see how firefighters are one.

>fire spreads

So do germs and disease, that does not mean that healthcare is a right and that I should fund firefighters to protect you, your property and your business.

>firefighters allow me to defend my property, my bodily autonomy and mantain it at its fullest

So do most welfare programs, but you are a libertarian, not a social democrat, be coherent.

>firefighters are more efficient when they a provided by the government

We are talking about liberty and freedom, not efficiency, that's not libertarianism, that's utilitarianism.

Charity, Pharma research, banking, academia funding and healthcare are also more efficiently provided by the government (or that's what utilitarians say), but that's not an argument against freedom.

Utilitarianism is fucking intellectual cancer.

If you unironically think that efficiency justifies it you are a social democrat that believes in trickle-down economics, not a libertarian

Read Ayn Rand "the Virtue of Egoism": Libertarian ethics are based upon ethical egoism, rationalism and hedonism instead of upon utilitarianism or empirism, other people's happiness are nothing of your concern, and according to our concept of Free Will and human rationality, it is better for them to be like so.

<ibn4 reddit spacing

Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.103150

>>103148

>1) Fires are natural disasters. Getting sick is not.

Stopped reading there.

Nice blattant contradiction. How are diseases any less natural that fires?

95% of fires are man-caused and almost 100% of the casualties are caused indirectly by human beings.

You are a Christian, so I don't really have any hope in your intelligence to start with.

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 No.103151

>>103107

GTFO utilitarianist.

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 No.103152

>>103148

>Fires are natural disasters. Getting sick is not.

BTW, what the fuck has to do nature with freedom to start with?

Aggresion, murder, rape and theft are natural, but we still oppose those concepts.

Nice Naturalistic Falacy deranged Christcuck.

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 No.103154

>>103152

>>103150

Nice lack of reading comprehension. Diseases are natural but not "natural disasters" (unless they are pandemics).

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 No.103162

File: f2c532188445b87⋯.png (3.18 MB,1920x1081,1920:1081,61c485c2f437c79c4fd8b51914….png)

>>103150

>>103152

Niggers tongue your anus. See >>103154 faggot.

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.103123 [Open thread]

49 second

is it professor Hoppe? :o

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 No.103126

>The Best Hebrew Songs Ever

Anon, what have you been watching?

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 No.103127

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

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 No.103144

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

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 No.103160

>>103123

RENT FREE

OBSESSED

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File: ce81f8d5cabb44b⋯.jpg (23.95 KB,278x308,139:154,20190329-82635-13lzpm5.jpg)

 No.101989 [Open thread]

For thousands of years of human history we lived in misery and suffering.

Then the planets aligned, and by some miracle we got some sort of capitalism and we got out of misery. Yet most people don't understand this and want to go back to the same policies we used for thousands of years and that kept us in misery and suffering, which is the starting point in nature.

What we're living is a big exception. I wonder how many times in history a society got close enough to start a capitalist revolution towards riches, and yet people started to bullshit and complain, forcing everyone to remain into poverty.

And it's not like things are getting better, you just have to look at how the average economics degree holder don't understand shit and has the same economic insights and knowledge of the average non-student.

Humanity is condemned to go back to the natural state, suffering and misery. Not because of a lack of resources or due to some major catastrophe, but due to its own inability to appreciate what it got.

Fuck this.

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 No.103032

>>102018

>organisms do well when given giant piles of resources.

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 No.103040

>>103032

I'm not even going to say anything.

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 No.103098

>>101992

Brainlet doesn't understand demographic transition.

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 No.103131

>>103032

Only if that were true then africans would be kangs

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 No.103143

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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File: 0eb7494b9a588f0⋯.png (9.55 KB,472x498,236:249,CP.png)

 No.103136 [Open thread]

This picture is illegal in Australia.

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 No.103140

Fuck her, fuck her good.

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File: 5271d4af5f8d333⋯.jpeg (29.04 KB,434x448,31:32,5271d4af5f8d3330e55381ad2….jpeg)

 No.102980 [Open thread]

What do you think about democracy?

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 No.103005

>>103004

This. In a sense, it's even worse than communism. In communism you know who the enemy is and it has a form, but in democracy society is divided against itself and evil hides in ambiguity.

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 No.103045

"democracy isnt perfect but we never had to build a wall to keep our people from leaving"

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 No.103048

>>103045

Cattle doesn't try to flee when it's already tamed

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 No.103068

>>103045

People don't leave because the relatively free markets have made them wealthy and comfortable, not because of any ideological benefit from democracy. Why do you think migrants from third world shitholes are so eager to come to Western countries, so they can vote? Of course not, they just want the gibs.

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 No.103113

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.102715 [Open thread]

Great. 2020 is going to a full-on 100% card carrying communist v. Mr. Tariff Man.

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 No.102939

>>102812

Huh, didn't know that.

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 No.102948

>>102939

>Conceived by the founder of Instituto Mises Brasil, Hélio Beltrão, in collaboration with members of the Ministry of Economy, the Executive Provisional Act is a set of rules designed to boost free enterprise and impose limits to government intervention over small businesses.

https://fee.org/articles/brazil-pivots-toward-economic-freedom/

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 No.103073

>>102948

Thanks anon.

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 No.103112

>>103073

i learned it from kelthuz but the vlog he speaks about it is in polish sadly

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 No.103159

>>102715

>democratic socialists are socialists

>national socialists are socialists

Are you brain damaged OP?

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File: 0e39764688c7140⋯.jpg (37.09 KB,300x360,5:6,300px-Civ4_Dschingis_Khan_….jpg)

 No.103101 [Open thread]

Some buddies of mine have opened a new political discord, and I just wanted to advertise it to you guys: https://discord.gg/PCpGM43

We do not intend to ban any ideologies, so any lurking leftyfags are also welcome to join in.

Why have we opened it? Because the good discords have become insular, and hardly let in new members. There are some that let in everyone and have no quality control whatsoever, and others which set out to be circlejerks, or of which I know they will be circlejerks because their admins are frankly idiots. So with this one, we want to return to the golden days of /rwa/ and /lrg/, if any of you know it.

Picture unrelated, and thanks for reading.

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 No.103103

File: fe77af463a0347d⋯.png (910.07 KB,1280x905,256:181,anime_pee.png)

>any lurking leftyfags are also welcome to join in.

Classic /liberty/. Why do you guys enjoy being such cucks?

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

 No.102201 [Open thread]

Realistic? implying you would know

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 No.102235

>>102231

You really think all 1 million of those NPCs are being simulated every tick?

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 No.102238

>>102231

Most of those complex mathematics go into simulating tesselated polygons–an intensive but repetitive task. Normies are simplistic, but they're just a big more complicated than triangles, so it would require a lot of processing power to stimulate the decision-making process of just one normie. I think Hayek called this the knowledge problem. No, it's not the calculation problem, that's different.

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 No.103099

The first thing to realize is that a planned city is not necessarily unfree. The point of planning a free city isn't so much to account for the most likely actions of it's residents in advance. The point of planning a free city is to set up various systems that will exist for that city which will ensure the freedom of that city. Of course, there are some things which can be planned, such as trash disposal/recycling, fire-extinction, medicine,, but there would be some difference in how they would be planned in a libertarian city as compared to a governmental city.

I think one of the things I dislike about this board is that there is too much focus on ideology without concrete, specific action (beyond outcry against something that happened in our statist dystopia). Yes, I'm accusing you of circlejerking. Get your act together! I think what this board needs is some constructive project. I propose that we try to plan a specific city to be a good libertarian city. For the sake of starting things off, why don't we go with Detroit, as it seems like the governments and just about everyone else are more-or-less neglecting Detroit.

I'm not saying we should actually go to detroit and implement the plan, but that we should, as a collective thought experiment, figure out the details in terms of a real place. What say you?

-Not from Detroit.

Is there a term for 'resident of Detroit'? If not, I propose "Detroitoise" or "Detroitante" or something else in keeping with the Frenchiness of "Detroit"

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 No.103100

>>102231

>so if you imagine the complex mathematics that goes on in rendering the graphics of a game like that, why can't we just apply the same processing power to simulating human behaviour?

Dwarf Fortress basically does this on a micro-scale. A fortress will usually crap out with a couple hundred of individuals.

You'll probably have to have Aurora 4x tier graphics to have a thousand individuals simulated.

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 No.103102

>>103099

>is there a term for 'resident of Detroit?'

Nigger.

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File: 4054bcf4a39235d⋯.jpg (54.45 KB,474x422,237:211,charlemagne.jpg)

 No.99183 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

>gay is okay

>fucking animals is okay

>polygamy/polyamory is okay

>freedom of speech/freedom to promote communism

>freedom of religion

>racial equality under the law

>democracy

So when did you realize that you're basically just a moderate leftist?

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 No.102398

File: 618550ddafd3c16⋯.jpg (50.8 KB,841x560,841:560,1414873461446.jpg)

>>102317

>Children and the infirm don't have any rights. They are considered property either of an institution or of their closest kin. It isn't said as such because that would be "dehumanizing" but it is de facto true.

You are clearly mistaking rights with agency and treating the latter as a precondition to enjoy rights. You can dispose of property at will, save a few exceptions like fly dumping etc., but you can't dispose of children or the infirm in the middle of the street. You have to leave them at the care of someone. That's a right that they have, among all the others.

>Furthermore your insistence that property has rights is just baffling.

You are a poster-child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

In places like New Zealand, Ecuador and Colorado rivers have rights of personhood. There have been cases of "rivers" suing companies for polluting them, for instance.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rivers-get-human-rights-they-can-sue-to-protect-themselves/

Just because you're not familiarized with the concept of natural reserves, it doesn't mean you have to act like a retard.

"WATCHU TALKIN BOUT??! I NEVAH HEARD OF ANY OF DAT!!"

>A forest does not have the right "not to be burned down". Imagine if it was so, would those rights be violated by brushfires started by dry storms?

I'm going to assume you are arguing in good faith and that that retarded question is borne out of ignorance. Intent matters. And you clearly know this. If you fall down the stairs due to an earthquake or because you tripped on your shoelaces that's not a violation of your rights. But if someone pushes you down the stairs,Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.102401

File: 0ed3aa623de6891⋯.jpg (482.73 KB,1726x1172,863:586,1553922244062.jpg)

>>102348

Your argument makes a bit more sense. Less edgy, more pragmatic. Of course everybody knows rights are "spooks" like the other retard said. Your explanation of how they came to be is very effective. However, I have to say that "being an actor" is not a precondition to enjoy rights. You mentioned the potential to be an actor in children or having been an actor, in the case of the dying, for instance. You are saying that only humans can and should be able to enjoy rights. I think humanity as a whole is moving away from that notion and expanding it even beyond sentient beings:

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/01/its-only-natural-the-push-to-give-rivers-mountains-and-forests-legal-rights

Animals have rights too: You can't abandon dogs and cats, it's against the law. Most people are not okay with eating dogs and cats. A growing number of people think someone who tortures / fucks animals should go to prison, etc.

You disagree with these developments, I assume?

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 No.102434

>>101945

>arguing in good faith

Spooky

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 No.102464

>>102398

>In places like New Zealand, Ecuador and Colorado rivers have rights of personhood. There have been cases of "rivers" suing companies for polluting them, for instance.

Your conception of justice is drenched in authoritarianism. There is no such thing as a crime without a victim. When you say "a river sued someone" what you really mean to say is the government arbitrarily decided they had an arbitrary right over a plot of land they had neither homesteaded nor traded for. It's the government that is the actor here, not the river.

> If you pollute a river or burn down a forest, you're going to prison.

<if the government enforces the law, it must be good!

What are you? Are you a libertarian? You sound like a democratic socialist whinger.

>LOL. Being this boastful of one's unaware ignorance…

>LOL. It's like talking with a cartoon.

Oh fucking sod off mate. Honestly, fuck right off with that reddit shit

>>102401

>Your argument makes a bit more sense. Less edgy, more pragmatic. Of course everybody knows rights are "spooks" like the other retard said. Your explanation of how they came to be is very effective.

Oh I'm honored you like my arguments you smarmy, suburbanite american millenial twat.

>However, I have to say that "being an actor" is not a precondition to enjoy rights.

Why?

>You mentioned the potential to be an actor in children or having been an actor, in the case of the dying, for instance. You are saying that only humans can and should be able to enjoy rights. I think humanity as a whole is moving away from that notion and expanding it even beyond sentient beings:

>Animals have rights too: You can't abandon dogs and cats, it's against the law. Most people are not okay with eating dogs and cats. A growing Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

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 No.103096

>animals can't consent

Oh? I think you need to not make such false generalizations. What is important is that, in any given case, to examine whether all involved parties consented. If the animal that you fucked consented to you fucking that animal, then anyone else forcing you to stop would be the aggressor.

There is, of course, the other question of proof. If someone violates you, and claims that they were justified because they were protecting the animal which you fucked (or tried to fuck, as the case may be), which they claim did not consent to you fucking them, and you claim that they were not justified in violating you, because the animal did consent, how is the question of who is reponsible for what restitution settled? I'm inclined to go for 'innocent until proven guilty', which would mean that the person violated you would have to prove that you were violating the animal, but then, what if the proof of guilt is too great? Of course, being a careful person, whatever I do, be it fucking an animal or otherwise, I ensure that I have proof that all effected parties consented, but that's me being a careful person.

(Not that I fuck animals or anything. It's all hypothetical here.)

>racial equality

SO. (Ahem.) What is important isn't racial equality per se, but that all discrimination is legitimate. There may be cases where discrimination based on race is legitimate. Of course, >>99186 a government that promotes racial equality is the antithesis of libertarianism, but it's not because that government promotes racial equality, but because it's a government.

[Age of consent]

>Are 14 year olds that different from 15 year olds? Are 13 year olds that different from 14 year olds? Where does it stop?

The point is that you don't look at the arbitrarily chosen property of 'how long has this person existed' to determine whether they are capable of consent, and you don't even look look at whether they are capable oc consent, but whether they did consent (!!), because that's what we care about here. SurPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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File: 76e424cce364925⋯.png (2.24 MB,1920x1080,16:9,anarchy2.png)

 No.103028 [Open thread]

Let's say you left a football on the beach. You put a label on it saying 'I made this, if you use it you owe me ten dollars'. Would I be 'initiating force' by using the football without contributing ten dollars?

Surely I would not be. 'You' are not the product of your labour. You may attempt to control or limit other people's interaction with the product of your labour but you cannot do so using force. In that case you aggress against me.

This is true on its own, but also, consequentially, the ability of people to own the product of their labour leads to the separation of ownership from use, which reduces the freedom of wage-labourers.

14 posts and 3 image replies omitted. Click [Open thread] to view. ____________________________
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 No.103086

File: 9ea81f2f27a14ee⋯.png (25.55 KB,402x310,201:155,gibbon.png)

If an object that I am quantum entangled to is used to damage property, did I violate the NAP?

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 No.103089

File: 137103da5c23174⋯.png (187.54 KB,480x358,240:179,ClipboardImage.png)

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 No.103093

File: 32ab5a186b4fa47⋯.jpg (37.56 KB,445x615,89:123,32ab5a186b4fa4734ff12368d7….jpg)

It's called the homesteading principle and the fact that it took 10 replies for >>103052 to even indirectly reference it is pretty disturbing. Property must be defended for it to be property.

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 No.103094

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 No.103095

>>103071

I'm not op, faggot

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