/liberty/ -Chaos Theory

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Chaos Theory Anonymous 02/16/19 (Sat) 03:35:44 No.98122

Why don't libertarians respect chaos theory more?

https://mises.org/library/chaos-theory-destroying-mathematical-economics-within-full-edition

It feels like a great way to get out of the old determinism v. free will debate by arguing about whether certain classes of natural phenomena are predictable as opposed to 'predetermined.' You can better incorporate the salients points of Hayek's local knowledge and Mises' calculation arguments. You can point out socialist hubris. Finally, you can actually speak in a harder and more rigorous scientific point of view.

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Anonymous 02/16/19 (Sat) 03:50:15 No.98126

are Mises' and Hayek's theories contradictory with determinism?

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Anonymous 02/16/19 (Sat) 18:17:51 No.98148

>>98126

Do they have to be to consider the OP?

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Anonymous 04/07/19 (Sun) 16:22:39 No.100935

Bamp.

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Anonymous 04/07/19 (Sun) 20:26:17 No.100950

>a great way to get out of the old determinism v. free will debate

How exactly?

1. Chaotic processes are deterministic. What's special about them is the extreme difficulty of making accurate predictions because of sensitivity or complexity.

2. Even random processes aren't free in any reasonable sense of the word. A random process can't 'choose'.

3. Free will is impossible. To truly choose is impossible. All processes are combinations of deterministic - in theory predictable - and random - unpredictable even in theory - processes. Neither is free and there is no room for anything besides those concepts.

Free will is bullshit. It doesn't even not-exist. 'Free' in this context doesn't even refer to anything coherent that could exist or not-exist. Free will is an impossible concept.

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Anonymous 04/13/19 (Sat) 00:45:53 No.101144

>>100950

Mankind developed the word "choice" to describe a process that occurs within his mind. Regardless of the nature of this phenomenon, it does occur. Being a real phenomenon which takes place within a natural universe, its operation is deterministic in nature, regardless of whether the mechanism can ever be understood. Free will and determinism are not mutually exclusive, and to believe that they are is to fail to understand at least one of them.

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Anonymous 05/22/19 (Wed) 11:42:51 No.102340

>>100950

Look a bit more carefully, because the first and third point you make contradict each other.

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Anonymous 05/22/19 (Wed) 22:55:31 No.102380

I'm too brainlet to contribute but I wish the more intelligent among us would spend more time discussing shit like this and less time memeing about helicopters.

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Anonymous 05/23/19 (Thu) 00:17:01 No.102389

>>102380

Fuck it. We're at the level where we might as well be brainlets discussing it, because I agree. I'd rather have this than helicopter and Shockbutt memes.

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Anonymous 05/23/19 (Thu) 00:33:10 No.102390

>>100950

Isn't the point of OP not to defend free will or determinism, but to point out that predictability v. unpredictability is really the key argument when it comes to the underlying foundations of some libertarian theories?

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