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[ Literature ] [ E-books ] [ Politics ] [ Science ] [ Religion ]

File: 1463866018319.jpg (3.72 KB,125x125,1:1,1435791868177.jpg)

f867c7 No.4073 [Open thread]

Descartes the THE worst philosopher. Discuss.

>Meditation I - Doubt shit.

>Yes we know.

>Meditation II - The Cogito

>Only interesting part of his work tbh.

>Meditation III - synthetic a priori deduction that God exists

>LMAO!!!!!

>Meditation IV - Trying to explain holes in III's logic.

>You can stop reading this guy now.

>Meditation V -

>I told you to stop reading Descartes.

>Meditation VI - Substance Dualism - AKA the philosophy of mind people are too embarrassed to believe in.

>Seriously you're getting into autistic stuff here...

The only reason it might be worth learning anything he says is to be able to read people that criticise him.

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f867c7 No.4100

File: 1464108913212.png (104.37 KB,358x242,179:121,1438311448643.png)

>>4098

Descartes is pre-Enlightenment. Even if he was that wouldn't excuse how awful his philosophy is. As I said, the Cogito in Meditation II is the only real interesting part of his work. After that he is just stupid and none of these ideas really form the basis of many philosophies to come. In fact Descartes even proposes an ontological argument similar to Anselm's, an 11th century archbishop.

Oh and people do still study people like Anselm and Aquinas these days.

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f867c7 No.4112

>>4100

>pre-enlightenment

Didn't know, sorry

>none of these ideas really form the basis of many philosophies to come

Didn't he basically inspire Newton and other physicists because he offered a method interpretation different from that of Aristotle?

>people still study Aquinas

Who isn't nearly as all the non-Aristotelians that's came after Descartes.

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f867c7 No.4120

>>4073

>too embarassed

i think chalmers is pretty willing to argue for substance dualism if not cartesian dualism

that said,

descartes questions are what have relevance.

his answers (metaphysics in particular) while not held in high philosophical esteem, did a hell of a lot to reclaim philosophy from the church.

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f867c7 No.4163

>>4112

>Didn't know, sorry

He might as well be Enlightenment, though, some people (THE FRENCH) claim he is the pre-cursor to it.

>Didn't he basically inspire Newton and other physicists because he offered a method interpretation different from that of Aristotle?

As a mathematician? Sure, but by that logic surely Pythagoras is equally worthy of praise. His bean theories should be as venerated as his mathematical theories are.

Book 2 of Principia Mathematica was written in response to Descartes, refuting his shit like Cartesian theory of vortices.

>Who isn't nearly as all the non-Aristotelians that's came after Descartes.

William Lane Craig.

But really it's a shame people see the pre-Enlightenment period as inferior, brainless retards who are all obsessed with gods. The Islamic Golden Age was almost like a mini-Enlightenment in itself.

>>4120

>chalmers

Substance dualism is Cartesian dualism. Chalmers supports property dualism. Property dualism is the non-embarrassing alternative to substance dualism.

>his answers did a hell of a lot to reclaim philosophy from the church.

How? His entire philosophy relies on the existence of God. If God does not exist then the problems he puts forward are still left unchallenged and leads to solipsism.

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a2aa2b No.5397

The problem with discarding Descartes is that substance dualism is true. Reality doesn't care how ridiculous you find it, or how ridiculous you find her messengers.

If you think you can do better, invent something on the scale of usefulness of Cartesian coordinates, then maybe you'll have some call for looking down on Descartes for being imperfect.

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File: 1464669662244.jpg (4.77 KB,212x238,106:119,download.jpg)

e9a8ba No.4153 [Open thread]

So i'm reading EUTHYDEMUS by Plato. In this dialogue Socrates meets two brothers that believe that they can sell wisdom to people.

To impress Socrates and his friends, they first challenge a young boy and demonstrate that words can have more than one meaning in a context and in fact any answer to their question can be wrong. One of Socrates' friends steps in only to be frustrated when he can't break their chain of logic. Then another, more learned friend of Socrates steps in and their word play

Now its clear that they are sophists (i.e. Plato's version of Satan) and this is one his main works on rhetoric. I haven't finished the dialogue but I have to ask:

What is wisdom? How is it really different from what these two brothers are doing? Is the sort of wisdom Plato's characters (like Socrates and co.) advocate genuine or does Socrates perform a different kind of wordplay and he simply believes he is touching on genuine teaching? After all the whole "idea-have opponent verify the idea-come a conclusion that bewilders opponent" not the same thing but with a different motive? Was Aristophanes right to say that Socrates was just an idealized sophist?

Isn't it contradictory? After all, if you teach wisdom well and argue well, making it hard for your opponent to argue with you are basically teaching your student how to think like you? If wisdom poorly (i.e. they can consider the problem easier and come to their own conclusions) are you not failing to argue but doing a better job in creating unique thought in the opponent?

If its answered later then i'll finish it and come back, but I want to get your take on it.

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e9a8ba No.4160

>>4153

Wisdom has no set meaning. The Sophists were relativists, which is what Plato hated above all. The whole idea of Socratic dialectic is to debate a concept until it is thoroughly pounded in agreement by both sides as to what it is. The idea is that every use of a concept carries some truth and has the central essence of the idea in it, but some concepts are so widely used in different contexts that it is bewildering what ties all those uses together in the concept. For all things that fundamentally mattered, yes, Socrates/Plato ultimately were bewildered as to what the concepts essentially meant in the end. Plato tried to really get at the core meaning of things like the good, wisdom, and beauty, etc., but he didn't really succeed.

If you take a Wittgensteinian view of wisdom and analyze how it's used, it's quite simple to see that wisdom is the proper/right use of knowledge. It is a concept that unites knowledge with ethics. One may know many things and yet be a complete idiot and not the least bit wise.

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File: 1464151567925.jpg (421.37 KB,1600x1181,1600:1181,xxrNS.jpg)

c21339 No.4101 [Open thread]

What do I read if I want to get out of my room and go get get laid?. I'm a 20yo kiss less virgin, can philosophy help me?

I just go to unI for my parents & work a boring job. All my friends went to the military so I'm pretty much a loser with no passions. Can philosophy help me?

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c21339 No.4118

File: 1464248717234.gif (1.16 MB,239x199,239:199,4273417 _dc35e7442cc7cd006….gif)

>>4101

r/pua is that way lad

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c21339 No.4122

>>4115

okay thank you for the advice!

Tell me if i'm wrong but I was under the impression that I could read some philosophy that would basically teach me that life is wonderful and beautiful, and that would give me the inspiration to go do something awesome.

>>4116

I'm not handsome and I think reading brooding shit would depress me so I think that's not an option for me. If i was handsome, that would be great, I could be some vampire going around fucking gals but im ugly af

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c21339 No.4123

File: 1464312042787.jpg (184.44 KB,1024x683,1024:683,C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg)

>>4122

Well if you are depressed and not sure what to do with life then training your mind to think, feel and discover will certainly help that. Granted each philosopher argues that they have created a system of thought that rouses them from a deep slumber and makes life the bestest ever. So really you could just pick one of theirs and convince yourself that its working. Alternatively after much study come up with your own. But you dont med to do that and its no recomennded you treat philosophy in such an insipid way

And I'm sure your not ugly, you are probably beter looking than most dudes I know. But those guys get ridiclious amounts of pussy. Why? Confidence, sense of humor, vision, passion, nice manners and empathy, well dressed, good dancing, fun to talk to, good at socialising. Girls like guys who like this, normal and self confident and have their own special something. Especially at uni

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c21339 No.4148

>>4122

You're wrong. Philosophy is supposed to make you think, not to make you feel good. Even if you're into existentialism, that stuff isn't supposed to be taken at face-value. What you're looking for is a self-help book, or a Bildungsroman.

But you'd be better off if you looked for a hobby rather than a book, anyway.

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a43fa5 No.5391

With sufficient dedication to philosophy, it grants you full mastery of both inner and outer worlds, and the generally confident demeanour that would imply, which is a mad chick magnet.

But 'sufficient dedication' is a couple orders of magnitude more than you think it is. You'll literally age out of being thirsty faster than you can obtain pussy through philosophy.

Also, 'inner world' includes your hunger for poon, so inner mastery means you can take or leave women, as you like. And they're huge time and money sinks even if you have total mastery of them.

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9582e8 No.4132 [Open thread]

Why were the Talking Heads always so philosophical? Did they know something we don't?

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9582e8 No.4142

File: 1464579022957.jpg (39.24 KB,500x361,500:361,crap youre missing in life.jpg)

Many creative types are more self-aware of the passage of time, the world, and things. Then again, creativity often correlates with a chance for depression or bipolar syndrome.

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c43cd7 No.5392

>Did they know something we don't?

I'm going to go with 'no,' unless you mean they know things about music composition and marketing I don't.

Philosophy is about accumulating more truths and discarding more illusions. Asking questions is only philosophical if it reveals one of your beliefs to be an illusion. Asking philosophical-feeling questions for the sake of seeming philosophical is textbook wankery.

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File: 1458690467377.jpeg (121.82 KB,855x569,855:569,image.jpeg)

387827 No.3781 [Open thread]

It amazes me that we enable elites to become so rich when they are so wasteful and tasteless. This painting sold to a Chinese bilionaire for 170 million USD.

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387827 No.3976

>>3974

Of course the money won't ever go to science because he already spent it on the ugliest nude ever. This could have been prevented if people like you wouldn't automatically apologize for wasteful narcisists. The average voter would have allocated this money better.

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387827 No.4041

File: 1463490487471.jpg (219.32 KB,720x540,4:3,absolutely heretical.jpg)

>>3974

>The average voter would have allocated this money better.

He would've allocated the 100 million dollars better (in the sense that the decision benefits a greater number of people), alright. What about the 200 million dollars that this rich fucker put into consumer products, infrastructure and research? Should we hold a plebiscite whenever a rich cunt wants to buy anything, to prevent him from buying shitty paintings? If so, with what right do we allow your sorry ass to buy vidya and mangos instead of putting your money into cancer medication trials?

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387827 No.4042

>>3976

>>4041

Accidentally the wrong post.

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387827 No.4140

>>3781

>picasso fan this bootyblasted

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530e2b No.5393

It's not even about taste.

The painting was bought because it makes the billionaire more powerful. They don't give a shit what it looks like. The stuff they buy for their own consumption is bought without crowing to the world about it. You complaining about it reveals you to be a pleb because what he's really thinking doesn't even occur to you as a possibility and a poor pleb because you're envious.

>>3782

>Purchased just for his vanity!

Being resentful always helps...the rich. Thanks pleb, for falling into the trap. God, I can only imagine the shit taste you have, I bet it's even worse than the supposed taste you're so butthurt about.

>>3976

>The average voter would have allocated this money better.

*snrk*

You would have blown it on hookers, cocaine, and pretending to make Africa less poor. Folk like you win the lottery from time to time, so we've seen this happen over and over.

African economists - you know, the ones from Africa - keep begging the West to quit it with the foreign 'aid.' When Somalia lost its government and they couldn't organize 'aid' for the place anymore, it immediately started growing like gangbusters.

Useful idiots like you are first up against the wall come the revolution.

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File: 1464331904964.jpg (36.77 KB,486x631,486:631,C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg)

c9d4bf No.4124 [Open thread]

Are there major differences between existenalism/nihilism/absurdism/pessimism?

If not, are there any nitty gritty ones?

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c9d4bf No.4129

>>4128

Marquis de Sade.

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c9d4bf No.4130

File: 1464462380284.png (386.23 KB,650x441,650:441,C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….png)

What's the difference between religion and mythology?

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c9d4bf No.4131

>>4130

You answered your own question, it seems.

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c9d4bf No.4133

>>4130

One of those is false and the other is true.

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259bc2 No.5394

>>4130

Historically, religion is a mythology pretending to be scientific.

Mythology is a way of getting to truth from the back side, through metaphor. You construct a story with the same emotional energy dynamics as the truth (this is what it means to 'resonate' - it resonates the way a board resonates with its fundamental sound frequency) and then examine the story to see what it can tell you about the truth.

Scientific truth is instead a detailed, mechanistic description. I sometimes call it the engineering description, because it's the kind of thing you need to build something.

However, mythology properly appreciated can most certainly lead to a scientific description, and engineering specs are often best understood through a mythology, depending on what you're using them for. E.g. a mythology of how a car works is more useful to the driver than an engine schematic.

Religious literalists are and were always the mistake. It's a necessary view for children, and it's always been true that many humans do not grow up, and retain their childist mythological literalism. Even hunter tribes have 'atheists' in the sense that some of them don't regard their myths as literally true.

The myths are supposed to be absurd when taken literally, as a hint that you're supposed to grow out of taking them literally.

There's been a good avatar of this truth lately in Jordan B. Peterson.

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File: 1452382106100.jpg (374.54 KB,639x910,639:910,Karl_Marx_001.jpg)

780922 No.3363 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

Thoughts on Marx?

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780922 No.4065

>>4063

>oh no he called me whitey

I didn't say you're wrong because you're white, it's not a fallacy nor is it illogical. You're just like the Jew who cringes to be called out and put in the open.

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780922 No.4067

>>4065

>>4060

Are you Jewish?

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780922 No.4095

As Marx himself basically admitted, he is not correct buy we wouldn't be able to discern real truthes in our capitalist world anyway. We need to evolve socially and that means changing our economy

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780922 No.4096

>>4047

>If we indeed do have capitalism, it's automatically true.

Well we do have capitalism according to Marx, is there something we are missing before we can have capitalism?

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780922 No.4097

>>4096

>what are the conditions for the possibility of generalized commodity exchange

Gee, I'm looking at a world of commodities right now. I wonder...?

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File: 1463466477647.jpg (14.27 KB,385x289,385:289,C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg)

8dc18d No.4034 [Open thread]

So I downloaded the starter kit to my google

Got a copy of Mythology by Edith Hamilton

Read some Plato

Have read Illiad before (well bits and pieces)

And have been listening to a podcast series of pre-Socratic philosophers

But I dunno guys, its all very fascinating but should I really start with the Greeks? Is it just a meme or will it ultimately serve some sort of purpose? Can I skip to the enlightenment?

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8dc18d No.4088

>>4085

So where should I start?

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8dc18d No.4091

>>4088

strangely enough, after a bit of plato and "problems of philosophy", i started in with phenomenology of spirit...

i wouldnt recommend that method.

philosophy of history is a much nicer way to go.

that said, ive found textbooks to be the best way of getting my bearings. more specifically, ive found logic and philosophy of mind the most helpful in that respect.

read some plato, read some descartes, read some hume, then you can just follow the road signs for physicalism or idealism or whatever stupid thing and see where you end up.

if you need it more specific than that:

plato (until youre tired of him)

metaphysics

meditations on first..

enquiry concerning human understanding

prolegamena (sp?) to any future metaphysics & critique of pure reason

cartesian meditations

history of the concept of time

^along with a smattering of overviews, essays, excerpts and the like mainly to do with philosophy of mind, this is the primary text track ive been on

also, i recommend reading some philosophical fiction or technical literature alongside for the sake of variety (not getting burnt out)

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8dc18d No.4093

>>4091

You don't just read Hegel just because. That's stupid and guaranteed to get you nothing and nowhere. You read Hegel because you glipmsed something he offers and you want it very badly, and you're not gonna give up until you know what it is for yourself.

You need passionate interest to slog through it, an interest that is willing to do the work to get it. That includes retroactively reading the philosophies Hegel responds to, looking into the historical epoch, etc.

To read Hegel is to read his time and its history and do nnect it to ours. Hegel isn't a thinker that everyone can understand or care about, he only appeals to certain kinds of intuitions and backgrounds.You must have a certain kind of experience, both practically and intellectually, and a driving desire to know the absolute, whatever it may be.

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8dc18d No.4094

>>4093

>you dont just read hegel just because

what

>the philosophies Hegel responds to

this is why i think developing a small background in rationalism and empiricism is a decent method of approach.

once that is acquired, hell still be difficult to parse...

>certain kinds of intuitions

true enough.

what ive read of him completely meshes with my intuitions...

its just the combination of highly abstract and strangely pedagogical writing, un-moored from its time and language that really makes me believe that a lot can be lost reading it without a bit of context and just a feel for abstract philosophical writing in general. for the sake of addressing one of those issues (abstraction), i found intro to philosophy of history to be a good first point of contact with his thinking.

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8dc18d No.5056

>>4034

You could stay with Plato and Aristotle alone, indefinitely, -- and it would be fine. After that I'd just swim right into German Idealism -- and also never leave, which would be fine.

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File: 1463966323960.jpg (9.66 KB,240x327,80:109,C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppD….jpg)

2268cd No.4089 [Open thread]

Was his theory of science wrong?

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354d30 No.5388

It needs to be fixed, but it can be fixed. Can be steelmanned into something pretty cool.

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File: 1463287577013.jpg (107.59 KB,1023x800,1023:800,1455401217000-0.jpg)

71d4ba No.4025 [Open thread]

Hidden microphones that are part of a clandestine government surveillance program that has been operating around the Bay Area has been exposed.

Imagine standing at a bus stop, talking to your friend and having your conversation recorded without you knowing. It happens all the time, and the FBI doesn’t even need a warrant to do it.

Federal agents are planting microphones to secretly record conversations.

Jeff Harp, a KPIX 5 security analyst and former FBI special agent said, “They put microphones under rocks, they put microphones in trees, they plant microphones in equipment. I mean, there’s microphones that are planted in places that people don’t think about, because that’s the intent!”

FBI agents hid microphones inside light fixtures and at a bus stop outside the Oakland Courthouse without a warrant to record conversations, between March 2010 and January 2011.

Federal authorities are trying to prove real estate investors in San Mateo and Alameda counties are guilty of bid rigging and fraud and used these recordings as evidence.

Harp said, “An agent can’t just go out and grab a recording device and plant it somewhere without authorization from a supervisor or special agent in charge.”

The lawyer for one of the accused real estate investors who will ask the judge to throw out the recordings, told KPIX 5 News that, “Speaking in a public place does not mean that the individual has no reasonable expectation of privacy…private communication in a public place qualifies as a protected ‘oral communication’… and therefore may not be intercepted without judicial authorization.”

http://archive.is/Egl6P

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/05/13/hidden-microphones-exposed-as-part-of-government-surveillance-program-in-the-bay-area/

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71d4ba No.4030

>>4029

Of course not. The state is a spook made of people.

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71d4ba No.4037

>>4025

There is nothing cool about what Jackson did to the injuns. As for the rest, yep, pretty awesome guy.

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71d4ba No.4066

>>4037

he was trying to relocate them where there would be less conflict with settlers. the trail of tears was not intended to be genocidal

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71d4ba No.4070

>>4025

Read Foucault

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069d55 No.5395

The state (allegedly) is supposed primarily to secure and safeguard their citizens. Most citizens do not want to be secretly recorded, and a real public servant would serve the public by preventing them from being secretly recorded, rather than doing it themselves.

The state is not what it's supposed to be, and indeed it's normally the primary threat a citizen faces. Expecting it not to privately record things and then randomly abuse this privilege is terribly naive in current year +2.

>>4037

>The injuns would have done it to Jackson if they could have

>Jackson should have let them, because it's not wrong when they do it.

Even if you don't think that's your argument, that's where your argument ends up. If you don't like how war works, quit life.

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File: 1463595000151.jpg (329.07 KB,1274x1700,637:850,Nietzsche1882.jpg)

4fa2c3 No.4059 [Open thread]

What is your opinion on the Nietzschean thesis that philosophies as manifestations of underlying mental/physiological dispositions of the philosopher? How much do you believe in the power of reason, and have you ever asked if anything you believe might come from your underlying psyche instead? I'd like to hear other's thoughts.

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147be4 No.5396

Of course philosophers are normally shaped by their times, their dispositions, their hangups and so on.

This doesn't mean philosophy per se is shaped by any of these things. It means that when a philosophy has been shaped by the above, it is distorted. It's incorrect.

The task of philosophy as a field is to overcome these flaws and obstacles. The best philosopher is so shaped the least.

But then, philosophy as it applies to any particular time and place is also partly a function of that time and place. If you take philosophy to mean not the generating function but the actual answers it gives, then it's a good thing for it to be shaped for the dispositions of the questioner.

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File: 1463563077426.jpg (492.68 KB,1125x1600,45:64,rei asuka the sex icon.jpg)

71c4ff No.4052 [Open thread]

It's so easy to fall in love with a simulacrum, to the point that I like keeping up with digital gossip of their private lives via the newest works on wikipedia. It doesn't matter that they're fictional. As long as the author lives on, fans must take comfort in knowing their hero/waifu lives on and anyone can peep into their private world by buying the latest installment of a series for only a few bucks.

Our love of fiction is the height of simulacrum. I wouldn't be surprised if a love for biographies and history were hardwired into us so we would learn to avoid others' mistakes. Love for dramatic fiction must piggy-back off of evolutionary drives, just like society's love for theology.

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File: 1462614159622.png (20.71 KB,256x256,1:1,objects.png)

f356f5 No.3991 [Open thread]

Do you think that people are materialistic because they live unhappy lives?

Or do people live unhappy lives because they are materialistic?

You could simply say they both go hand in hand, I'm just curious which one /philosophy/ thinks would be more accurate.

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f356f5 No.3997

It can happen both ways separately and at the same time.

If you're raised in a culture of consumer materialism and you have never had any experience that would develop the sensibilities for understanding what you are and require as a human being, then you will engage in materialism and be unhappy without understanding what possibly could make you happy or content with your life.

On the other end you may begin generally unhappy and attempt materialistic aims as a way of coping with your long term unhappiness through short term consumption highs.

When it's both you're basically caught in a cycle of stubborn denial that you have no fucking clue what you're doing with your life.

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f356f5 No.4027

Having more means you want less, or you could want less by choice. Which is preferable not wanting with wealth, or not wanting without it.

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f356f5 No.4038

File: 1463489442713.png (120.77 KB,250x418,125:209,____?.png)

>>3997

>consumer materialism

Lost me right there.

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f356f5 No.4044

>>3991

Why are you assuming that materialists are either unhappy and their unhappiness is related to their materialism?

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f356f5 No.4045

>measuring happiness

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File: 1461000106407.jpg (952.49 KB,2080x1544,260:193,Im_Salar_de_Uyuni.jpg)

f09428 No.3937 [Open thread]

AI has taken over. Censoring written word and image/video is trivial now. It's not just a matter of site operators 'deleting' content. Negative feedback can be generated in huge volume in a believable way with AI in order to turn people off to certain ideas.

People have the instinct to try to fit in. Their opinions in the moment can be and very often are influenced by simple expressions of opinion like a one-sentence comment, especially if there are many such comments all agreeing.

This is the cutting edge of the media. Instead of just presenting ideas and implying their popularity, the ideas can be presented and the appearance of their popularity can not just be implied, but asserted with fabricated evidence. The fact that people emotionally identify with expressions as simple as snippets of text is being exploited to gain a great amount of leverage in influencing their minds.

It's as simple as this: people see that they can post anything they want online, they see their expression appear in the public setting, they see people they know respond, and can respond in turn.

This builds the very deep expectation that anything they see in the same place or in a similar place was made by a person more or less like them.

But it's not necessarily true in every case.

The implications of AI in society are complex. Basically, anyone who has enough computing resources can influence public opinion through the internet in an extremely powerful way that exceeds any other technique in history by far.

How can you deny that this is at very least a possibility? The technology and resources have existed for a long time and such practices would be extremely profitable. There is no possible argument against these facts.

Basically the internet has turned into and is becoming more so a thought feedback machine that puts down "unpopular" ideas and shoves them to places with no audience.

Let me just summarily countPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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f09428 No.3968

>>3937

This is actually a testable idea, op.

If you want to confirm or deny your suspicions, go to a facebook or twitter post about something controversial, and read, say, 100 comments or replies. Log which side of the argument they're on, then go to their account and see if they're a bot or a dummy account. They should be pretty easy to identify. Put the data in a spreadsheet and you'll have some credible evidence to either confirm or deny your theory.

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f09428 No.3985

Well, you may be right.

You've given absolutely no evidence but it sounds plausible so let's act on the assumption that it's true.

I suggest teaching people logic and proper reasoning and the Socratic method and the like.

Portray it as something that will make them better that everyone (as an incentive).

Relevant: >>>/bmw/5552

Also make sure they know that having controversial beliefs is not inherently good but rather that with is the most important thing.

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f09428 No.3986

>>3985

>with

*truth

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f09428 No.3989

>>3968

bot =/= AI

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f09428 No.4031

>>3989

That's true, but a bot can be the agent through which an AI works.

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File: 1462630167251.jpg (42.94 KB,300x219,100:73,rene-descartes.jpg)

4adac6 No.3993 [Open thread]

Hey. I've been wondering about something related to Descartes and solipsism: why do "hard solipsists" reject the notion that external reality being real is simply an assumption we have to make? An assumption necessary for us to function and live.

Now, I might be completely mistaken and this idea was probably addressed by the solipsists of the world, so please bring me up to speed if I'm missing something obvious or whatever.

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4adac6 No.3996

>The fear or error in modern philosophy which leads to epistemology is an error itself which causes subject/object dualism which necessarily generates skepticism. Once the object is separated from the subject by the epistemological gap nothing can get the object back for us. {The structure of epistemology is the structure of jealousy. How do I know she/he is being faithful? I don’t trust her/him. <-- Once this attitude/thought is accepted the relationship is done, there is no way to bring back trust. Epistemology is just a maddened jealousy.}

>Part of the reason why the modern philosophers could do epistemology without realizing the paradox is because they had an unjustified assumption that the mind was better known than the world; that you could have noninferential self-knowledge of your own mental states, and that therefore part of the new individualism was that you could be in possession of a kind of certainty about yourself even if you knew nothing about the world. Internal certainty with external skepticism.

>Imagine someone who is absolutely certain about their own inner states, but uncertain about the world. This is what we usually think of as a psychotic case. We have a whole structure of philosophy premised on this idea, that the inner is safe and knowable, but everything outside is mad. [Hume] realizes this structure of madness when he says “I am a monster to myself. I think myself mad” when he cannot find why there should be a connection between austere and rational skepticism and his monstrosity. He cannot diagnose why he has to put his best certainty about himself (skepticism) out of mind in order to enter the world and play billiards.

>Epistemology generates subject/object dualism and generates a whole series of further forms of deception in which we say we have knowledge but not real knowledge (we know appearances but not things in-themselves), or we have knowledge but there is something else that is true (we know appearances, but we relate to the absolute/noumenal by faith) [Kant and Jacobi]

What would make you thPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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4adac6 No.4021

>>3996

Wouldn't "non-inferential self-knowledge" stem, just like Solipsism, from the Cogito? That the idea that "I think therefore I am" is true, and the only(at least the beginning of) undoubtable knowledge, contrasted with scientific and demonstrated truth/knowledge?

Where is that quotation from, if I might humbly ask

As a side note, could subject/object dualism be the great Duality mirrored in philosophical history and embodied by Plato and Aristotles particular vs the Idea, the Abstract? And wouldnt the neccesity of this Duality shed light(and light is the only metaphor for this discussion) on the Truth of thought/philosophy itself? Or is it all falsehoods and nihilism

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4adac6 No.4023

>>4021

Bernstein lectures on the Phenomenology of Spirit, quote is from the [5th lecture - Introduction chapter, part 2].

What Bernstein seems to mean by non-inferential knowledge of the mind is that the cogito completely ignores the conditions of the possibility of making that very statement, it thinks it is a kind of given brute fact, but it actually isn't. Yes, it's a true statement, but it is an incomplete truth about ourselves, it relies on concepts external to the immediate individual consciousness taken from historical community, and it is an incomplete argument with huge gaps. It is abstracted from our lives which begin not in reason, not in mind, but in activity and community. When that is brought into the conceptual argument there is no way solipsism could have any serious consideration given to it other than an error of madness.

Bernstein actually connects the universal-particular debate to whole-parts and one-many debates of ontology. The subject-object division is related to them, but fueled by a different question following from what Hegel calls natural consciousness which does not recognize the role of conceptual cognition in knowledge generation from experience. Once the conceptual dimension of knowledge is acknowledge it is seen that the subject-object duality is a mistaken presupposition underlying our understanding of what knowledge is.

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4adac6 No.4024

>>4021

On another note, according to Bernstein, Berkeley's philosophy is hugely important to this question if you are interested. Bernstein says Berkeley is one of the "darkest" thinkers of modernity whose philosophy rightfully terrified all of those that reacted strongly to his immaterial (world)anti-realist idealism.

I have never had an interest in Berkeley, but dayum if that doesn't make me very interested. Bernstein recommends a book on a systematic reading of Berkeley, but I can't for the life of me hear the name of the author clearly and have not found anything that seems like it.

Those lectures are just full of interesting quips on other philosophers, such as Descartes' implicit atheism, and his highly disguised moral subjectivism.

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f34608 No.5451

Paging Sokal.

>>3994

>That being said, "hard solipsism" has an extra assumption

On the contrary, hard solipsism eliminates an unnecessary assumption. There's no need to infer a reality behind that which you observe directly - the contents of your consciousness.

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