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File: 1765b9c11a72cf7⋯.png (3.12 MB,1916x990,958:495,Screen Shot 2017-03-19 at ….png)

e34a25 No.5063 [Open thread]

📃🤔🎯🎓

☦️

📯⚰🚸🇬🇷

☦️🎇☦️🎆

☦️🎯🤔♻️

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File: 4b940658fa4394e⋯.jpg (108.02 KB,560x850,56:85,a3a00b5cfd327ee41e9b42e395….jpg)

c0aefb No.5013 [Open thread]

Does intelligence correlate with critical thinking? Is it reasonable to think people who believe in stupid ideas due to poor critical thinking skills are stupid?

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c0aefb No.5014

2x yes

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c0aefb No.5022

No, it's not reasonable that someone who holds a stupid opinion is stupid. An idea isn't merely a product of the mind, but also of the amount of information available and also of how much energy people wish to employ in it. These two factors confound the direct effect of intelligence on an idea.

Alchemists, for instance, had a crude conception of chemical processes. But at the same time, because they had only crude tools to work with (glass was expensive and improper for experiments, substances were often filled with impurities, recipes weren't clear) the data they were fed back from chemical experiments didn't warrant any more sophisticated theory.

As another example, consider an specialist. Specialist often have very little knowledge of any area besides their narrow field of interest, yet that has nothing to do with their intelligence. Being smart doesn't prevent someone from being an idiot when it comes to another field.

As for "critical thinking", I don't know what that expression means or refers to and I'm not sure whether or not whatever it refers to is a skill or not.

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c0aefb No.5037

>>5022

Both questions were centered around the notion of critical thinking. Unless you're saying that specialists or intelligent people with subpar means at their disposal reaching conclusions is an example of forming 'stupid' ideas *because* of poor critical thinking, you haven't answered the questions.

>>5013

there are generally two reasons why someone doesn't apply critical thinking (I'm assuming you mean this in the sense of 'being non-dogmatic as well as attempting to form opinions while being as informed on the topic as reasonably possible' - do specify if you are thinking of something else). One is a simple lack of resources, which is mostly either time or energy, and another is the outright incapability of doing so.

In both cases, when you form opinions as a result of trusting the authority of someone you percieve as competent and worthy of your trust, I do not think that it is fair to call the people in question stupid, even if, to you, their trust in these particular people may seem particularly badly misplaced.

But I would agree with you that, should they have arrived at their opinions on their own, without having the ability or invested the resources to investigate it thoroughly, while *also* holding on to their opinion *as if* they had foolproof reasons to do so, are deceiving themselves either willingly or unwittingly. the latter I would consider stupid, since I have no other word for people who feel unjustifiably competent regarding a matter, in which they know full well they have invested little to no effort, but nonetheless fail to notice their feeling of certainty is unfounded. the prior group is more willfully ignorant or obtuse than stupid, but I have no problem with people like >>5014 calling them 'stupid' for that.

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f332d5 No.5300

Lots of smart folk don't profess any smart ideas.

The human brain should be Turing complete. The only question is how long it takes for a particular specimen to think critically. It's probably not worthwhile for sub-150 IQs to attempt to think critically, because even if they try full time, they won't learn how until middle age, and then they hardly have time to actually apply the method to anything significant.

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File: d973ac737fc9218⋯.gif (1.81 MB,387x291,129:97,qCJWrDL.gif)

b207d0 No.5031 [Open thread]

How the fuck hasn't the Krusty Krab been closed down by the fucking Sanitation Department like what the fuck Bikini Bottom are you just going to allow this mother fucker to fuck the town over like he has been doing. Open your fucking gills you retarded fish do you even know what goes on at that fucking kitchen. How has this restaurant not been shut the fuck down holy shit fuck Bikini Bottom what a shithole. This has been a letter to the good people at the BBHD to shut this motherfucking place down

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b207d0 No.5036

you'd be suprise :^)

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b79909 No.5301

If the customers can't work out they're being fucked over then they deserve to be fucked over.

Assuming you're not some callous altruist who is only pretending to want to help (99% likelihood) then all you're doing by getting 'Sanitation' involved is enabling their gullibility. Now, instead of being fucked over by the relatively limited Krusty Krab, they'll be fucked over by 'Sanitation' as soon as regulatory capture runs to completion. Good work asshole, die in a fire.

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File: 04319e3257ac321⋯.jpg (36.55 KB,600x300,2:1,voltaire 3.jpg)

789c96 No.4999 [Open thread]

I want to read Voltaire

Which book would you recommend for a good reader but beginner in philosophy

I want to read him he seems to line up with my views very well,

Thanks

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789c96 No.5012

His writing and works aren't anything extremely complex or hard to understand so just choose whatever. I would only spend like 20 min pre reading.

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789c96 No.5026

Start with Candide, then read his treaties and other writings, not difficult imo

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File: 79bf90c4a93b785⋯.png (40.17 KB,510x530,51:53,1470517982407-1.png)

1467cb No.5007 [Open thread]

I've tried to find both "The First Philosophers" and "The Pythagorean Sourcebook" but for fuck sakes its not online at all, unlike other works form non-greeks.

I know I'm missing important things like their dialogs in first place but some things just can't be done.

Why am I being forced to use a flag jesus fuck I'm not even a existentialist

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1467cb No.5017

>>5007

I've just started with the Greeks and it's pretty comfy tbh. Start with Plato's dialogues, the easy ones first.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plato/index.htm

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1467cb No.5019

A post form this thread is gone already

Like tears int he wind

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17c75c No.5303

Almost everything good from the greeks is still floating around, as that's what being influential means. Have to figure out how to filter it out, though, and I don't know how hard that would be for you.

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File: 63e4c223775bae6⋯.jpg (27.49 KB,232x321,232:321,DSC01027.jpg)

8957eb No.4994 [Open thread]

stop barking

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d417cf No.5302

Okay.

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d417cf No.5429

No, you stop barking.

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File: e33f6cded70e8fc⋯.jpg (111.71 KB,419x604,419:604,osho.jpg)

031019 No.4982 [Open thread]

Start fucking

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031019 No.4985

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031019 No.4989

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031019 No.4990

>>4982

i cant i have phimosis

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736cda No.5304

Pass.

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736cda No.5430

Since OP is a faggot, he's probably looking for a top. Who's thirsty enough to top for a faggot?

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File: bc611b936b0af29⋯.jpg (42.14 KB,500x488,125:122,memefarmer.jpg)

4b8fbc No.4983 [Open thread]

In his 1962 work, "The Savage Mind", Claude Lévi-Strauss lays out the dichotomy of the bricoleur and the engineer. A bricoleur is one who practices bricolage, which is a sort of improvisation; bricoleurs 'tinker', they creatively use whatever tools and materials are at hand to complete various odd jobs as they arise. For Lévi-Strauss, the bricoleur has the 'savage mind' and engages in mythological thinking, while the engineer has the 'scientific mind' and engages in scientific thinking. What we're talking about here is different ways of creating and disseminating meaning through the manipulation of signs. Quoting Lévi-Strauss:

>"The 'bricoleur' is adept at performing a large number of diverse tasks; but unlike the engineer, he does not subordinate each of them to the availability of raw materials and tools conceived and procured for the purpose of the project. His universe of instruments is closed and the rules of his game are always to make do with 'whatever is at hand', that is to say with a set of tools and materials which is always finite and is also heterogeneous because what it contains bears no relation to the current project, or indeed to any particular project, but is the contingent result of all the occasions there have been to renew or enrich the stock or to maintain it with the remains of previous constructions or destructions. The set of the 'bricoleur's' means cannot therefore be defined in terms of a project. It is to be defined only by its potential use or, putting this another way and in the language of the bricoleur himself, because the elements are collected or retained on the principle that they may always come in handy. Such elements are specialized up to a point, sufficiently for the bricoleur not to need the equipment and knowledge of all trades and professions, but not enough for each of them to have only one definite and determinate use. They each represent a set of actual and possible relations; they are 'operators' but they can be used for any operations of the same type."

Furthermore:

>"Mythical thought, that bricoleur, builds up structures by fitting together events, or rather the remains of events, while science, 'in operation' simply by virtue of coming into being, creates its means and results in the forPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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4b8fbc No.4984

>>4983

Now, in "Structure, Sign, and Play in the Discourse of the Human Sciences", Derrida criticizes Lévi-Strauss' notion of the engineer, arguing that the engineer must actually be a myth of the bricoleur, another bricoleur himself in fact, as no individual can be the absolute origin of their own discourse. And furthermore, the bricoleur gains its meaning through its difference with the impossibility of the engineer. Whereas Lévi-Strauss argued that neither the bricoleur nor the engineer necessarily supersedes the other, Derrida argued that there are only bricoleurs. But this is orthogonal to the subject at hand, which is memes.

Memes have become an internet cultural phenomenon, lately bleeding over into real life. Some people refer to 2016 election as the "Great Meme War", and a presidential candidate even referenced certain memes in a high-profile speech. There even exists a veritable encyclopedia of memes along with numerous sites that simplify the creation of memes. There are even memes about being a 'meme farmer', which sounds a lot like being a bricoleur.

In fact, the very term 'meme', coined by Richard Dawkins in the 1976 book, "The Selfish Gene", was, as he explains himself, 'hijacked', and that while the original idea meant a random mutation spread by a form of Darwinian selection, 'internet memes' are altered deliberately by human creativity. The 'bricoleurs' repurposed the scientific concept of 'meme' for the mythological concept of 'internet meme', and thereby became 'meme farmers'.

How does a meme farmer tend to her memes? She maintains a collection of images and videos, characters, situations, reactions, concepts, tropes, one-liners, quotes, references, symbols, etc. She plays with them; she mixes and matches different elements until she creates a rearrangement relevant to whatever happens to be her subject of interest. Different elements applied to different structures relevant to different events.

Now lets looks at Lévi-Strauss' explication of the work of the bricoleur:

>"The elements ofPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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File: 82b5ee23fb8be7f⋯.jpeg (12.35 KB,200x230,20:23,H_E_R_D_E_R.jpeg)

72e068 No.4969 [Open thread]

A reflection of physical surroundings? A tool to orient oneself among peers? Who explained it best?

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72e068 No.4971

culture are the things that oppose nature

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72e068 No.4973

File: eefd98a33c55ddf⋯.png (11.9 KB,1123x71,1123:71,goethe.png)

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72e068 No.4974

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be003f No.5305

Humans have a lot of options for how they'll live their lives.

Culture is a group which all make the same decisions. So, as a stupid example, one can choose to admit lots of foreigners or none at all. The first culture will develop means of dealing with contrasting belief systems in an orderly fashion, and will shy away from institutions that require homogenous beliefs. The second culture will have lots of institutions that require homogeneity, but will have simple, crude methods for dealing with heterogeneity.

Hunter tribes don't need psychologists because their lifestyle doesn't put great strain on the human mind. City tribes need a plethora of support systems for the mind, because humans are maladapted for the city environment.

For less stupid examples, there's more than one way to organize a city. Different cultures can choose different, incompatible ways, and still end up with a thriving city as long as their decisions are relatively consistent.

Culture is a conflated thing. Cultures develop, or previously had, a particular character. One can see the character puts a bias on how these decisions are made. It also affects the character of the culture's art. Similarly, the art's themes will be applicable to the relevancies of the culture - decisions to still be made, or difficulties the culture has in living up to its own decisions. But, strictly speaking, the set of life decisions is a different thing than the arts a social group creates.

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File: 4e4f62d9b969653⋯.jpg (325.56 KB,900x900,1:1,karma.jpg)

7a4f50 No.4966 [Open thread]

Okay /philosophy/ please bare with me.

How does a King or anyone of the such hold the "Form of Good" within him, according to Plato?

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7a4f50 No.4967

plato was a pidor

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7a4f50 No.4968

>>4967

Being that I'm Bosnian, I'll throw in a "Plato was a peder".

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7b038f No.5306

Plato was wrong. We can work out what he meant, but there's no point.

Plato's forms are a primitive understanding of how definitions work. Now we know how definitions work, and Plato's forms are little more than a historical curiosity.

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File: 1459360238749.png (69.44 KB,300x100,3:1,1459287422385-boards.png)

ffe648 No.3837 [Open thread]

>>>/logic/ and it's child boards

>>>/logicpol/

(/logic/ isn't claimed yet so sorry about the shit posting)

What do you think of the idea?

15 postsand5 image repliesomitted. Click reply to view. ____________________________
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ffe648 No.4800

>>4483

Now I can accurately guess that the people here don't

He's just a caricature of someone who's just learned about logical fallacies and doesn't entirely understand them.

Which brings us to the last comic:

>>4511

You're right that things still have a truth behind them but what the fuck, everyone except the most brainwashed post modernist knows that.

If you can't argue your point without shooting off a fallacy what is the fucking point of arguing with you, dumbass? The point of this description is to refute people that think that, because a earlier argument used a fallacy, further arguments towards the same point are invalid because the user is fallacious.

Guess what?

This shit has nothing to do with it.

Nobody wants to argue with logical fallacies because there's nothing to argue.

Go fling your

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ffe648 No.4948

>>4527

I'll teach logic for free if anyone wants to learn.

(ProTip: nobody's willing to put in the effort.)

(Throw the horns for Socrates.)

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ffe648 No.4959

>>4527

I picked up logic from statistics, baysneian truth statements in applied calculus or algebra, and fallacies from a philosophy class valued critical thinking. I took a few programing classes but I didn't learn anything except writing procedural code within some rules, maybe I didn't study it long enough. I don't think you need a class soley for logic, all you need is enough classes that delve into it and rely on it.

>Sophistry

I learned how to argue and do research from liberal arts classes. Science coursework is strangely hung-up on rote memorization of formulas and write-ups; they don't usually make students research a topic, memorize arguments for a prompt, and then verbally debate or aggressively question each other like lawyers. Take for example the pre-med majors who memorize a ton of facts, names, reactions, and diagnoses, but remain cultural bound and never need to question things like their own biases to get a degree, which is why they're the most likely of the "STEM matter race" to keep their religion.

>>4948

Teach us your secret.

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ffe648 No.4976

>>4509

Ad hominem.

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5f474c No.5308

>>3863

>The problem with focusing on fallacies is that a lot of people tend to misidentify them.

The major problem being misidentifying them on purpose or accidentally on purpose. Even the most objective arbiter will end up finding more fallacies in arguments they disagree with.

This is why the Catholics have a Pope. Someone has to decide, meaning someone has to have final authority. However, having only one Pope is degenerate in several ways. To do the fallacy-banning thing properly on 8chan would require a board-of-boards. Each board would have their own Fallacy Pope, but there would be a meta-board with the combined thread feed of all the boards. Alternatively, OPs would all have banning privileges within their own threads, though they would need to identify their ruleset, which would be equivalent to namefagging.

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File: 1464181108193.jpeg (81.31 KB,800x517,800:517,image.jpeg)

3c5aa3 No.4106 [Open thread]

List the heroes. Aside from Socrates there was a female neoplatonic philosopher/astronomer who was murdered by the Christian mob centuries later:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia

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3c5aa3 No.4500

>>4362

But how that murdered for philosophy if Hypatia as murdered for politics? It seems like neither of them are a martyr by your standards.

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3c5aa3 No.4501

>>4500

Socrates did not advocate anything political. His inquiries, however, made fools of the citizens of athens and the professional politicians who claimed to know things yet were left baffled and unable to give any positive answer to Socrates' questions.

This spirit of complete free inquiry was catching on with the noble youth who, thanks to Socrates, were beginning to see that the adults were ignorant and really did not know any more than the youth themselves. This destruction of faith and its consequences is why Socrates was put to death, and it is why he refused to accept any wrongdoing or punishment. He knew he had done nothing wrong and had revealed the ignorant for what they were: ignorant.

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3c5aa3 No.4951

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3c5aa3 No.4962

-) Anicius Manlius Severinus Boëthius

-) Giordano Bruno

-) in a way also Blaise Pascal (his religous beliefs killed him)

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7e5f08 No.5310

If you admire martyrs so much, kill yourself.

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

677bd0 No.4928 [Open thread]

Everything in the evolution leads up to this moment, everything since the big bang theory.

Imagine something for 1 billion years ago happen differently just 1 sec in the pass would have changed everything! Mindblow

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677bd0 No.4929

regard b6s3d.

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677bd0 No.4930

File: 9c9890496c4669f⋯.png (595.96 KB,669x473,669:473,jfn7s8W.png)

>>4928

If things had happened slightly differently in then Sean Murray wouldn't have been born. That's truly amazing!

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677bd0 No.4943

>>4928

>evolution

>the big bang

>1 billion years ago

nice memes

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c1cdd4 No.5311

If you had waved your arms the other way two years ago the weather today would have been 'completely different' than it is. Just like the weather is always completely different from one day to the next - but still weather.

Most random arrangements look pretty much the same to us, because they're functionally pretty much the same to us.

>>4943

Evolution is logically necessary. Does God hate logic?

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File: 0402bc2156d8c82⋯.png (1.76 MB,960x600,8:5,1418090233380.png)

ed337b No.4911 [Open thread]

I believe many philosophers and politicians might have written books on those subjects. What would be good starting points on this subject?

If being rational doesn't work on the masses, maybe appeals to emotion will.

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ed337b No.4912

M8, there are literally books that are almost a THOUSAND YEARS OLD teaching you the art of rhetoric. Rhetoric isn't about being logical in the standard sense in the way that proper arguments work, but is about a practical logic about how dumb human beings actually think and are convinced. Appeals to emotion with the veneer of reason, that's what it is. This is not enough, however, you have to not be a sperg or autist yourself in order to have the unteachable aspect of it: a finely tuned and self-aware charm and charisma.

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ed337b No.4942

Well, any help on this one?

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ed337b No.4981

idk much about this but I do own nicomachean ethics give it a try

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ed337b No.5040

these days, the art of sophistry and rhetoric is best learned by reading about psychology and the neuroscience behind the formation of opinions. Most of the good stuff is going to be technical and dry, but it's going to serve you better than populistic works on the matter.

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e74735 No.5313

I found my Asperger's downright helpful, though that's because mind-manipulation appears to be one of my areas of hyperfocus.

Yes, if you're willing to lie, there's hardly anything you can't convince a majority to believe. Unfortunately, what civilization needs now is an appreciation for truth, which no amount of rhetoric can impart.

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File: 31169a0d8e1a813⋯.jpg (77.79 KB,580x474,290:237,IMG_6058.JPG)

9e3434 No.4938 [Open thread]

>Try to get into philosophy

>Realize you are are not who you think you are, but are actually a little girl in a best-selling novel

>Level up your philosophical powers and escape into the real world

Mfw, why didn't my philosophy profs inform me that the secret to philosophy is it's a process of getting out of a fucking book and meeting a "God" who has been watching you, and waiting for you to come so he can caress your flat titties?

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9e3434 No.4939

take pills

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9e3434 No.4940

>>4939

Take the red pill.

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