/philosophy/ -Philosophy

2x yes

No, it's not reasonable that someone who holds a stupid opinion is stupid. An idea isn't merely a product of the mind, but also of the amount of information available and also of how much energy people wish to employ in it. These two factors confound the direct effect of intelligence on an idea.

Alchemists, for instance, had a crude conception of chemical processes. But at the same time, because they had only crude tools to work with (glass was expensive and improper for experiments, substances were often filled with impurities, recipes weren't clear) the data they were fed back from chemical experiments didn't warrant any more sophisticated theory.

As another example, consider an specialist. Specialist often have very little knowledge of any area besides their narrow field of interest, yet that has nothing to do with their intelligence. Being smart doesn't prevent someone from being an idiot when it comes to another field.

As for "critical thinking", I don't know what that expression means or refers to and I'm not sure whether or not whatever it refers to is a skill or not.

>>5022

Both questions were centered around the notion of critical thinking. Unless you're saying that specialists or intelligent people with subpar means at their disposal reaching conclusions is an example of forming 'stupid' ideas *because* of poor critical thinking, you haven't answered the questions.

>>5013

there are generally two reasons why someone doesn't apply critical thinking (I'm assuming you mean this in the sense of 'being non-dogmatic as well as attempting to form opinions while being as informed on the topic as reasonably possible' - do specify if you are thinking of something else). One is a simple lack of resources, which is mostly either time or energy, and another is the outright incapability of doing so.

In both cases, when you form opinions as a result of trusting the authority of someone you percieve as competent and worthy of your trust, I do not think that it is fair to call the people in question stupid, even if, to you, their trust in these particular people may seem particularly badly misplaced.

But I would agree with you that, should they have arrived at their opinions on their own, without having the ability or invested the resources to investigate it thoroughly, while *also* holding on to their opinion *as if* they had foolproof reasons to do so, are deceiving themselves either willingly or unwittingly. the latter I would consider stupid, since I have no other word for people who feel unjustifiably competent regarding a matter, in which they know full well they have invested little to no effort, but nonetheless fail to notice their feeling of certainty is unfounded. the prior group is more willfully ignorant or obtuse than stupid, but I have no problem with people like >>5014 calling them 'stupid' for that.

Lots of smart folk don't profess any smart ideas.

The human brain should be Turing complete. The only question is how long it takes for a particular specimen to think critically. It's probably not worthwhile for sub-150 IQs to attempt to think critically, because even if they try full time, they won't learn how until middle age, and then they hardly have time to actually apply the method to anything significant.

you'd be suprise :^)

If the customers can't work out they're being fucked over then they deserve to be fucked over.

Assuming you're not some callous altruist who is only pretending to want to help (99% likelihood) then all you're doing by getting 'Sanitation' involved is enabling their gullibility. Now, instead of being fucked over by the relatively limited Krusty Krab, they'll be fucked over by 'Sanitation' as soon as regulatory capture runs to completion. Good work asshole, die in a fire.

His writing and works aren't anything extremely complex or hard to understand so just choose whatever. I would only spend like 20 min pre reading.

Start with Candide, then read his treaties and other writings, not difficult imo

>>5007

I've just started with the Greeks and it's pretty comfy tbh. Start with Plato's dialogues, the easy ones first.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plato/index.htm

A post form this thread is gone already

Like tears int he wind

Almost everything good from the greeks is still floating around, as that's what being influential means. Have to figure out how to filter it out, though, and I don't know how hard that would be for you.

Okay.

No, you stop barking.

>>4982

No

>>4982

https://twitter.com/panamaorange/status/830558610820329472/photo/1

>>4982

i cant i have phimosis

Pass.

Since OP is a faggot, he's probably looking for a top. Who's thirsty enough to top for a faggot?

>>4983

Now, in "Structure, Sign, and Play in the Discourse of the Human Sciences", Derrida criticizes Lévi-Strauss' notion of the engineer, arguing that the engineer must actually be a myth of the bricoleur, another bricoleur himself in fact, as no individual can be the absolute origin of their own discourse. And furthermore, the bricoleur gains its meaning through its difference with the impossibility of the engineer. Whereas Lévi-Strauss argued that neither the bricoleur nor the engineer necessarily supersedes the other, Derrida argued that there are only bricoleurs. But this is orthogonal to the subject at hand, which is memes.

Memes have become an internet cultural phenomenon, lately bleeding over into real life. Some people refer to 2016 election as the "Great Meme War", and a presidential candidate even referenced certain memes in a high-profile speech. There even exists a veritable encyclopedia of memes along with numerous sites that simplify the creation of memes. There are even memes about being a 'meme farmer', which sounds a lot like being a bricoleur.

In fact, the very term 'meme', coined by Richard Dawkins in the 1976 book, "The Selfish Gene", was, as he explains himself, 'hijacked', and that while the original idea meant a random mutation spread by a form of Darwinian selection, 'internet memes' are altered deliberately by human creativity. The 'bricoleurs' repurposed the scientific concept of 'meme' for the mythological concept of 'internet meme', and thereby became 'meme farmers'.

How does a meme farmer tend to her memes? She maintains a collection of images and videos, characters, situations, reactions, concepts, tropes, one-liners, quotes, references, symbols, etc. She plays with them; she mixes and matches different elements until she creates a rearrangement relevant to whatever happens to be her subject of interest. Different elements applied to different structures relevant to different events.

Now lets looks at Lévi-Strauss' explication of the work of the bricoleur:

>"The elements ofPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

culture are the things that oppose nature

http://fgbueno.es/ger/gb0mdk.htm

http://fgbueno.es/gbm/gb1996mc.htm

Maybe this can help: http://www.jesusmateo.com/imagemateo/unescoalarcon/document/eng/GUSTAVO%20BUENO%20-%20ENSAYO%201999.pdf

Humans have a lot of options for how they'll live their lives.

Culture is a group which all make the same decisions. So, as a stupid example, one can choose to admit lots of foreigners or none at all. The first culture will develop means of dealing with contrasting belief systems in an orderly fashion, and will shy away from institutions that require homogenous beliefs. The second culture will have lots of institutions that require homogeneity, but will have simple, crude methods for dealing with heterogeneity.

Hunter tribes don't need psychologists because their lifestyle doesn't put great strain on the human mind. City tribes need a plethora of support systems for the mind, because humans are maladapted for the city environment.

For less stupid examples, there's more than one way to organize a city. Different cultures can choose different, incompatible ways, and still end up with a thriving city as long as their decisions are relatively consistent.

Culture is a conflated thing. Cultures develop, or previously had, a particular character. One can see the character puts a bias on how these decisions are made. It also affects the character of the culture's art. Similarly, the art's themes will be applicable to the relevancies of the culture - decisions to still be made, or difficulties the culture has in living up to its own decisions. But, strictly speaking, the set of life decisions is a different thing than the arts a social group creates.

plato was a pidor

>>4967

Being that I'm Bosnian, I'll throw in a "Plato was a peder".

Plato was wrong. We can work out what he meant, but there's no point.

Plato's forms are a primitive understanding of how definitions work. Now we know how definitions work, and Plato's forms are little more than a historical curiosity.

>>4483

Now I can accurately guess that the people here don't

He's just a caricature of someone who's just learned about logical fallacies and doesn't entirely understand them.

Which brings us to the last comic:

>>4511

You're right that things still have a truth behind them but what the fuck, everyone except the most brainwashed post modernist knows that.

If you can't argue your point without shooting off a fallacy what is the fucking point of arguing with you, dumbass? The point of this description is to refute people that think that, because a earlier argument used a fallacy, further arguments towards the same point are invalid because the user is fallacious.

Guess what?

This shit has nothing to do with it.

Nobody wants to argue with logical fallacies because there's nothing to argue.

Go fling your

>>4527

I'll teach logic for free if anyone wants to learn.

(ProTip: nobody's willing to put in the effort.)

(Throw the horns for Socrates.)

>>4527

I picked up logic from statistics, baysneian truth statements in applied calculus or algebra, and fallacies from a philosophy class valued critical thinking. I took a few programing classes but I didn't learn anything except writing procedural code within some rules, maybe I didn't study it long enough. I don't think you need a class soley for logic, all you need is enough classes that delve into it and rely on it.

>Sophistry

I learned how to argue and do research from liberal arts classes. Science coursework is strangely hung-up on rote memorization of formulas and write-ups; they don't usually make students research a topic, memorize arguments for a prompt, and then verbally debate or aggressively question each other like lawyers. Take for example the pre-med majors who memorize a ton of facts, names, reactions, and diagnoses, but remain cultural bound and never need to question things like their own biases to get a degree, which is why they're the most likely of the "STEM matter race" to keep their religion.

>>4948

Teach us your secret.

>>4509

Ad hominem.

>>3863

>The problem with focusing on fallacies is that a lot of people tend to misidentify them.

The major problem being misidentifying them on purpose or accidentally on purpose. Even the most objective arbiter will end up finding more fallacies in arguments they disagree with.

This is why the Catholics have a Pope. Someone has to decide, meaning someone has to have final authority. However, having only one Pope is degenerate in several ways. To do the fallacy-banning thing properly on 8chan would require a board-of-boards. Each board would have their own Fallacy Pope, but there would be a meta-board with the combined thread feed of all the boards. Alternatively, OPs would all have banning privileges within their own threads, though they would need to identify their ruleset, which would be equivalent to namefagging.

>>4362

But how that murdered for philosophy if Hypatia as murdered for politics? It seems like neither of them are a martyr by your standards.

>>4500

Socrates did not advocate anything political. His inquiries, however, made fools of the citizens of athens and the professional politicians who claimed to know things yet were left baffled and unable to give any positive answer to Socrates' questions.

This spirit of complete free inquiry was catching on with the noble youth who, thanks to Socrates, were beginning to see that the adults were ignorant and really did not know any more than the youth themselves. This destruction of faith and its consequences is why Socrates was put to death, and it is why he refused to accept any wrongdoing or punishment. He knew he had done nothing wrong and had revealed the ignorant for what they were: ignorant.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Aikenhead

Free speech troll.

-) Anicius Manlius Severinus Boëthius

-) Giordano Bruno

-) in a way also Blaise Pascal (his religous beliefs killed him)

If you admire martyrs so much, kill yourself.

regard b6s3d.

>>4928

>evolution

>the big bang

>1 billion years ago

nice memes

If you had waved your arms the other way two years ago the weather today would have been 'completely different' than it is. Just like the weather is always completely different from one day to the next - but still weather.

Most random arrangements look pretty much the same to us, because they're functionally pretty much the same to us.

>>4943

Evolution is logically necessary. Does God hate logic?

M8, there are literally books that are almost a THOUSAND YEARS OLD teaching you the art of rhetoric. Rhetoric isn't about being logical in the standard sense in the way that proper arguments work, but is about a practical logic about how dumb human beings actually think and are convinced. Appeals to emotion with the veneer of reason, that's what it is. This is not enough, however, you have to not be a sperg or autist yourself in order to have the unteachable aspect of it: a finely tuned and self-aware charm and charisma.

Well, any help on this one?

idk much about this but I do own nicomachean ethics give it a try

these days, the art of sophistry and rhetoric is best learned by reading about psychology and the neuroscience behind the formation of opinions. Most of the good stuff is going to be technical and dry, but it's going to serve you better than populistic works on the matter.

I found my Asperger's downright helpful, though that's because mind-manipulation appears to be one of my areas of hyperfocus.

Yes, if you're willing to lie, there's hardly anything you can't convince a majority to believe. Unfortunately, what civilization needs now is an appreciation for truth, which no amount of rhetoric can impart.

take pills

>>4939

Take the red pill.