/philosophy/ - Philosophy

How is the long-run factored into these conclusions? If killing off all minority populations to create an ethnically homogenized society resulted in the long-run nullification of ethnic conflict or power struggles, since this would essentially create an infinite amount of utility and happiness since it continues to generate results far into the future, is it therefore worth a single short-term avalanche of sorrow and a massive loss of utility?

>>1669

Very myopic of you to consider that position as solely contrarian. As a Stoicist, I have to ask you, what if suffering is required to build character or to do good in this world? If you abandon all principle in pursuit of your happiness, what separates you from canal hedonists?

>>4892

"Of course not"

You presume too much. If a doctor makes one mistake in their entire career, then yes there will be consequences for that mistake, but nothing compared to the consequences facing a doctor who makes frequent or aggravating mistakes.

The task we are given as humans in society is to attempt to foresee the consequences of our actions and to make our decisions based on the expected consequences. Someone's inevitably going to make a mistake because they failed to foresee the negative consequences of their choice. They will be punished in despite of their good intentions, because otherwise there would be no incentive to anticipate possible negative consequences.

>>5093

Do you start firing every surgeon who makes a mistake?

Of course not, the consequences of doing that would result in increased death and suffering. or are you forgetting that the punishment itself must also not increase suffering? Firing an incompetent doctor may very well save lives, just as firing a competent but unlucky doctor will result in more people dying.

Moral nihilism obtains. Consequentialism is in contradiction with the structure of logic.

Even if it wasn't, it's identical to both deontology and virtue ethics, because you can define the 'good' consequence however you like. Rather than material consequences, you can define it as following a rule, or as having embodied a virtue, and voila you've re-created the other systems within consequentialism.

Similarly, consequentialism as a deontology:

The rule is to obtain the best material end state.

Consequentialism as virtue ethics:

The virtue is to always seek the best material end state.

Naturally deontology and virtue ethics are also identical.

>>431

>Morally, you may have a point, but practically, one cannot simply wave away all ills committed with the best of intentions with a "poor feller didn't mean any harm."

Amazing true fact: people lie. If your intentions can excuse your actions, guess what people will do.

>>1667

Happiness is a sensation which is good by definition. If it's not good, it's not happiness.

Suffering is the set of sensations that are bad by definition. If it's not bad, it's not suffering. E.g. workout pain is not suffering. A good itch-scratching scratch is not suffering.

You can argue these things exist or don't exist, but definitions don't need justification. They just are. They just be.

>>5133

You can also argue that suffering is a pathway to happiness. Again, this is entirely orthogonal to justification.

The Iliad is really boring, and I don't recommend it.

>>5087

Save your money, download them for free, i inherited an entire library from my grandfather and i mostly read on my laptop, books are hard to carry around and they get mouldy, its better to read from paper though, but not worthed the money if you are "poor".

>>5091

> i inherited an entire library from my grandfather and i mostly read on my laptop

Your grandfather was hip and tech-savy, but reading books on a screen fucks with my eyes after a while.

>>5087

A fairly pointless exercise, given we know nothing about you and your degrees of interest or what you intend to do with any input you may gain from these works.

that said, Aristotle's metaphysics is a book very much worth reading. Definitely more so than Machiavelli and Homer (even if you are 'only' looking for literary achievements).

Also, for what it's worth, I personally like reading compilations of different viewpoints, so your third book is probably what I would go for.

I'm curious to hear which you chose, if indeed you chose at all.

Spend less time reading and more time thinking about what you've read. You'll find you didn't really understand it, at which point you'll grok how much you can learn without spending money.

At least spend more time hanging around in libraries.

Never saw this before. It's horrifying to consider people actually think this way. Blatantly misogynistic as well, loath as I am to use that term.

And I'm aware it's a shitpost. Doesn't mean it's not founded on some people's honest thoughts.

If I didn't have a sister who spit on everything my parents and grandparents ever did for her, I'd have a problem with this.

Good Point!

This is actually true, if only because of how sexually depraved society has become.

If a daughter doesn't have sex until marriage, and she has her parents blessings for said marriage, then the father is not a cuck.

Well, novel at least. Utterly moronic, but novel.

Cuckoldry isn't about sex. It's about reproduction. The point of the cuck isn't that they don't get to fuck their wife. The point is their genes die out, and they spend time and money spreading someone else's. Daughters getting fucked is the very opposite of your genes not being spread.

There's a little bit of incel in the definition of cuck.

>have daughters

>not incel

Novel, but dumbfoundingly stupid. A Babelonian-tier monument to idiocy.

>>5059

And for your first question, I would say that people should think there are two kinds of freedom, to be free from and to be free in.

Think about buddhist abnegation as in to be free from this world and desires (Will>will).

Think about a little kid in a toy store he owns, he can play with whatever he likes. (will>Will)

It even applies to reason, when you are humbled by not knowing something although you learned (Will>will), when you get a theory down and it seems you have sucessfuly studied the natural (will>Will)

So man can be free in varying degrees and different ways, but can only be absolutely free when (will=Will), which is only feasible when man is an adaptable platform, ever evolving, ever optimizing, never content until the very epitome is achieved. So I think we'll just end up creating a fucking sentient being to do it because we are too busy sending outraged tweets and starving to death.

tl;dr: Just do your best and tell people to do it as well, it's the least and the most we can do.Or make a rogue AI, it's all the same in the end.

2x yes

No, it's not reasonable that someone who holds a stupid opinion is stupid. An idea isn't merely a product of the mind, but also of the amount of information available and also of how much energy people wish to employ in it. These two factors confound the direct effect of intelligence on an idea.

Alchemists, for instance, had a crude conception of chemical processes. But at the same time, because they had only crude tools to work with (glass was expensive and improper for experiments, substances were often filled with impurities, recipes weren't clear) the data they were fed back from chemical experiments didn't warrant any more sophisticated theory.

As another example, consider an specialist. Specialist often have very little knowledge of any area besides their narrow field of interest, yet that has nothing to do with their intelligence. Being smart doesn't prevent someone from being an idiot when it comes to another field.

As for "critical thinking", I don't know what that expression means or refers to and I'm not sure whether or not whatever it refers to is a skill or not.

>>5022

Both questions were centered around the notion of critical thinking. Unless you're saying that specialists or intelligent people with subpar means at their disposal reaching conclusions is an example of forming 'stupid' ideas *because* of poor critical thinking, you haven't answered the questions.

>>5013

there are generally two reasons why someone doesn't apply critical thinking (I'm assuming you mean this in the sense of 'being non-dogmatic as well as attempting to form opinions while being as informed on the topic as reasonably possible' - do specify if you are thinking of something else). One is a simple lack of resources, which is mostly either time or energy, and another is the outright incapability of doing so.

In both cases, when you form opinions as a result of trusting the authority of someone you percieve as competent and worthy of your trust, I do not think that it is fair to call the people in question stupid, even if, to you, their trust in these particular people may seem particularly badly misplaced.

But I would agree with you that, should they have arrived at their opinions on their own, without having the ability or invested the resources to investigate it thoroughly, while *also* holding on to their opinion *as if* they had foolproof reasons to do so, are deceiving themselves either willingly or unwittingly. the latter I would consider stupid, since I have no other word for people who feel unjustifiably competent regarding a matter, in which they know full well they have invested little to no effort, but nonetheless fail to notice their feeling of certainty is unfounded. the prior group is more willfully ignorant or obtuse than stupid, but I have no problem with people like >>5014 calling them 'stupid' for that.

Lots of smart folk don't profess any smart ideas.

The human brain should be Turing complete. The only question is how long it takes for a particular specimen to think critically. It's probably not worthwhile for sub-150 IQs to attempt to think critically, because even if they try full time, they won't learn how until middle age, and then they hardly have time to actually apply the method to anything significant.

you'd be suprise :^)

If the customers can't work out they're being fucked over then they deserve to be fucked over.

Assuming you're not some callous altruist who is only pretending to want to help (99% likelihood) then all you're doing by getting 'Sanitation' involved is enabling their gullibility. Now, instead of being fucked over by the relatively limited Krusty Krab, they'll be fucked over by 'Sanitation' as soon as regulatory capture runs to completion. Good work asshole, die in a fire.

His writing and works aren't anything extremely complex or hard to understand so just choose whatever. I would only spend like 20 min pre reading.

Start with Candide, then read his treaties and other writings, not difficult imo

>>5007

I've just started with the Greeks and it's pretty comfy tbh. Start with Plato's dialogues, the easy ones first.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/plato/index.htm

A post form this thread is gone already

Like tears int he wind

Almost everything good from the greeks is still floating around, as that's what being influential means. Have to figure out how to filter it out, though, and I don't know how hard that would be for you.

Okay.

No, you stop barking.

>>4982

No

>>4982

https://twitter.com/panamaorange/status/830558610820329472/photo/1

>>4982

i cant i have phimosis

Pass.

Since OP is a faggot, he's probably looking for a top. Who's thirsty enough to top for a faggot?

>>4983

Now, in "Structure, Sign, and Play in the Discourse of the Human Sciences", Derrida criticizes Lévi-Strauss' notion of the engineer, arguing that the engineer must actually be a myth of the bricoleur, another bricoleur himself in fact, as no individual can be the absolute origin of their own discourse. And furthermore, the bricoleur gains its meaning through its difference with the impossibility of the engineer. Whereas Lévi-Strauss argued that neither the bricoleur nor the engineer necessarily supersedes the other, Derrida argued that there are only bricoleurs. But this is orthogonal to the subject at hand, which is memes.

Memes have become an internet cultural phenomenon, lately bleeding over into real life. Some people refer to 2016 election as the "Great Meme War", and a presidential candidate even referenced certain memes in a high-profile speech. There even exists a veritable encyclopedia of memes along with numerous sites that simplify the creation of memes. There are even memes about being a 'meme farmer', which sounds a lot like being a bricoleur.

In fact, the very term 'meme', coined by Richard Dawkins in the 1976 book, "The Selfish Gene", was, as he explains himself, 'hijacked', and that while the original idea meant a random mutation spread by a form of Darwinian selection, 'internet memes' are altered deliberately by human creativity. The 'bricoleurs' repurposed the scientific concept of 'meme' for the mythological concept of 'internet meme', and thereby became 'meme farmers'.

How does a meme farmer tend to her memes? She maintains a collection of images and videos, characters, situations, reactions, concepts, tropes, one-liners, quotes, references, symbols, etc. She plays with them; she mixes and matches different elements until she creates a rearrangement relevant to whatever happens to be her subject of interest. Different elements applied to different structures relevant to different events.

Now lets looks at Lévi-Strauss' explication of the work of the bricoleur:

>"The elements ofPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

culture are the things that oppose nature

http://fgbueno.es/ger/gb0mdk.htm

http://fgbueno.es/gbm/gb1996mc.htm

Maybe this can help: http://www.jesusmateo.com/imagemateo/unescoalarcon/document/eng/GUSTAVO%20BUENO%20-%20ENSAYO%201999.pdf

Humans have a lot of options for how they'll live their lives.

Culture is a group which all make the same decisions. So, as a stupid example, one can choose to admit lots of foreigners or none at all. The first culture will develop means of dealing with contrasting belief systems in an orderly fashion, and will shy away from institutions that require homogenous beliefs. The second culture will have lots of institutions that require homogeneity, but will have simple, crude methods for dealing with heterogeneity.

Hunter tribes don't need psychologists because their lifestyle doesn't put great strain on the human mind. City tribes need a plethora of support systems for the mind, because humans are maladapted for the city environment.

For less stupid examples, there's more than one way to organize a city. Different cultures can choose different, incompatible ways, and still end up with a thriving city as long as their decisions are relatively consistent.

Culture is a conflated thing. Cultures develop, or previously had, a particular character. One can see the character puts a bias on how these decisions are made. It also affects the character of the culture's art. Similarly, the art's themes will be applicable to the relevancies of the culture - decisions to still be made, or difficulties the culture has in living up to its own decisions. But, strictly speaking, the set of life decisions is a different thing than the arts a social group creates.

plato was a pidor

>>4967

Being that I'm Bosnian, I'll throw in a "Plato was a peder".

Plato was wrong. We can work out what he meant, but there's no point.

Plato's forms are a primitive understanding of how definitions work. Now we know how definitions work, and Plato's forms are little more than a historical curiosity.