/philosophy/ -Philosophy

>>4317

read epictetus. then you can at least take solace in the fact that your problem is not a new one

>Discourses 2.19: Against those who embrace, philosophical opinions only in words

> The argument called the "ruling argument" appears to have been proposed from such principles as these: there is in fact a common contradiction between one another in these three positions, each two being in contradiction to the third. The propositions are, that everything past must of necessity be true; that an impossibility does not follow a possibility; and that thing is possible which neither is nor t at a t will be true. Diodorus observing this contradiction employed the probative force of the first two for the demonstration of this proposition, "That nothing is possible which is not true and never will be." Now another will hold these two: "That something is possible, which is neither true nor ever will be": and "That an impossibility does not follow a possibility," But he will not allow that everything which is past is necessarily true, as the followers of Cleanthes seem to think, and Antipater copiously defended them. But others maintain the other two propositions, "That a thing is possible which is neither true nor will he true": and "That everything which is past is necessarily true"; but then they will maintain that an impossibility can follow a possibility. But it is impossible to maintain these three propositions, because of their common contradiction.

> If then any man should ask me which of these propositions do I maintain? I will answer him that I do not know; but I have received this story, that Diodorus maintained one opinion, the followers of Panthoides, I think, and Cleanthes maintained another opinion, and those of Chrysippus a third. "What then is your opinion?" I was not made for this purpose, to examine the appearances that occur to me and to compare what others say and to form an opinion of my own on the thing. Therefore I differ not at all from the grammarian. "Who was Hector's father?" Priam. "Who were his brothers?" Alexander and Deiphobus. "Who was their mother?" Hecuba. I have heard this story. "From whom?" From Homer. And HellPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>4324

> The wind from Ilium to Ciconian shores

> Brought me.

> "Of things some are good, some are bad, and others are indifferent. The good then are the virtues and the things which partake of the virtues; the bad are the vices, and the things which partake of them; and the indifferent are the things which lie between the virtues and the vices, wealth, health, life, death, pleasure, pain." Whence do you know this? "Hellanicus says it in his Egyptian history"; for what difference does it make to say this, or to say that "Diogenes has it in his Ethic," or Chrysippus or Cleanthes? Have you then examined any of these things and formed an opinion of your own? Show how you are used to behave in a storm on shipboard? Do you remember this division, when the sail rattles and a man, who knows nothing of times and seasons, stands by you when you are screaming and says, "Tell me, I ask you by the Gods, what you were saying just now. Is it a vice to suffer shipwreck: does it participate in vice?" Will you not take up a stick and lay it on his head? What have we to do with you, man? we are perishing and you come to mock us? But if Caesar sent for you to answer a charge, do you remember the distinction? If, when you are going in, pale and trembling, a person should come up to you and say, "Why do you tremble, man? what is the matter about which you are engaged? Does Caesar who sits within give virtue and vice to those who go in to him?" You reply, "Why do you also mock me and add to my present sorrows?" Still tell me, philosopher, tell me why you tremble? Is it not death of which you run the risk, or a prison, or pain of the body, or banishment, or disgrace? What else is there? Is there any vice or anything which partakes of vice? What then did you use to say of these things? "What have you to do with me, man? my own evils are enough for me." And you say right. Your own evils are enough for you, your baseness, your cowardice, your boasting which you showed when you sat in the school. Why did you decorate yourself with what belonged to others? Why did you call yourself a Stoic?

> Observe yourselves thus in your actions, and you Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>4325

>And now I am your teacher, and you are instructed in my school. And I have this purpose, to make you free from restraint, compulsion, hindrance, to make you free, prosperous, happy, looking to God in everything small and great. And you are here to learn and practice these things. Why, then, do you not finish the work, if you also have such a purpose as you ought to have, and if I, in addition to the purpose, also have such qualification as I ought to have? What is that which is wanting? When I see an artificer and material by him, I expect the work. Here, then, is the artificer, here the material; what is it that we want? Is not the thing, one that can be taught? It is. Is it not then in our power? The only thing of all that is in our power. Neither wealth is in our power, nor health, nor reputation, nor in a word anything else except the right use of appearances. This is by nature free from restraint, this alone is free from impediment. Why then do you not finish the work? Tell me the reason. For it is either through my fault that you do not finish it, or through your own fault, or through the nature of the thing. The thing itself is possible, and the only thing in our power. It remains then that the fault is either in me or in you, or, what is nearer the truth, in both. Well then, are you willing that we begin at last to bring such a purpose into this school, and to take no notice of the past? Let us only make a beginning. Trust to me, and you will see.

>>4326

fugg 4got sours http://www.constitution.org/rom/epicdisc2.htm

>This is because I have little idea how to APPLY the information and ideas being presented to me in my daily/weekly/yearly life.

These books are not engineering documents and aren't intended to be, even though their adherents normally present them as such. It's some sort of trick for making monkeys sit up and listen; I can't be arsed to figure out which one.

What you're supposed to do is, having said, 'lolwut so deep' is go ask a living practitioner about the specifics. Most people can't rationally plan their actions though, so what you really have to do is go watch them and copy them, which is not only possible, but automatic if you're nearby and don't consider them outgroup.

Wattshitposter pls go.

Nice bald assertions there anon.

Aquinas was full of shit and so are you. Plz into unknown unknowns and/or humility.

Have you ever heard of this little thing called "Existentialism"?

What are you referring to, and why should philosophy help with it at all?

>>4312

I love everything this guy writes.

What do you mean?

>>4278

> I have seen little discussion of it

have you looked inside a philosophy book by any chance? fucking idiot

>science to be an important factor in considering things or philosophical tenants

What?

Also that should be 'tenets' not apartment residents.

Should I say science isn't an important factor for considering things? What's this about things -or- philosophy's tenets?

>study of reality

Oh good we're the field of everythingology now. Cool.

>>4294

What's Christian thought to you? A literal reading of the bible? Just the words Jesus supposedly said and nothing else? The spirit of the doctrine of love your neighbor?

>>4295

The word as law

Why would I try to reconcile some errors with other errors? Why am I maybe throwing in some irrelevant truths as side dishes?

>>4295

This question is kind of important!

>>4296

What?

0/10

>>4286

Probably not a lot. Shit thread though

>>4293

>0/10

>>3999

while i lack the facultis to tackle the majority of your questions at the moment, i can at least illuminate a few.

>Should we chase it and try to live our lives with always pleasure, or try to keep away from it as much as possible?

we toil so that we may have leisure, which is to say that we should have leisure in our life, but not banal, sensuous hedonism. the best leisure is the leisure of the best.

i know thats not well thought out but its a starting point.

>>4000

You'd make a fine interlocutor to our dear friend Socrates.

>What is pleasure?

The state you are temporarily in when you meet a want or need.

However this also amounts to boredom as your need has been met and you no longer have the driving force of want/need.

In other words, you are constantly deprived and in pain, pleasure temporally makes you stop suffering; however this is felt by a person as a state of normalcy.

Pleasure is the void left when you eliminate pain. And it feels just like that, a void.

>Why and how do we feel it(I'm also looking for biological answers here if you guys can provide)?

I think you mean neurological, as in dope; though i'm not experienced enough to elaborate.

But philosophically we feel it due to the meeting of our inborn natural impulses (however perverted from nature they may be)

>And when we feel it, why do we want it to last forever?

Because otherwise we are in agonizing pain.

>Should we chase it and try to live our lives with always pleasure, or try to keep away from it as much as possible?

This I do not know.

Up to you really.

>How does hedonism affect a man?

I makes him bored.

Hedonism is actually the proposition that a man's sensations are sufficient to figure out what's good or not. It's not what a newspaper calls hedonism.

The simplest form is when what feels good is in fact good, and what feels bad is in fact bad, so...

>>4261

>>How does hedonism affect a man?

>

>I makes him bored.

Newspaper hedonism makes you bored, which feels bad, so newspaper hedonism is bad, according to philosophical hedonism.

Hedonism doesn't have to be this simple, though. (Newspaper hedonism is bad regardless.) There are various kinds of pleasure. Some are more satisfying than others, giving hedonists a hierarchy of positive sensations. It's not hard to unify hedonism and virtue ethics, for example.

>A and B theories of time

>people still unable to accept the truth of time as such as merely the negativity of the totality of space over and against itself

>>4156

Cool, thanks. Another 8channer put forth his own theory and he got me excited to read him in the end. Have you guys read him? What do you think his key ideas are?

If you're into paradoxes and radical subjective individualism, there's a lot you can gain from reading K. Having read a little bit of Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit, you can view Kierkegaard's conception of individualism as an inversion of Hegel's socialized reason (insofar as his project describes the structure of being as rational).

He hated the public as he felt that it ultimately devalued the individual.

>>4157

I've read Two Ages and Fear and Trembling for a 19th Century Philosophy class. I'm getting to Either/Or this summer.

His key ideas deal with paradox, irony and the tension between faith and reason. He looked up to Socrates and Jesus Christ (JC for obvious reason) as he believed both were authentic ironists. Socrates admits he knows nothing while being the wisest man of Athens. God, an omnipotent and transcendent being, incarnates as a finite man, Jesus Christ, voluntarily sacrificing Himself to save humanity.

>>4155

He's a shitty Nietzsche basically.

>>4223

>Existentialist

>Kierkegaard is just like Nietzsche but worse

>Nietzsche is an existentialist not a nihilist meme

You cannot understand what you are reading.

Read Heraclitus.

>>4240

>Hegel

*tips fedora*

>>4241

Here's a tip for you too, kiddo: whether or not you believe, God is more real than any of us. You'll be a long way towards ending your depression once you stop rejecting faith out of teen rebellion.

>>4238

>ego

I want this meme to end.

How old is this pasta?

>>4243

Here's a tip for you too, kiddo: whether or not you believe, Kek is more real than any of us. You'll be a long way towards ending your depression once you stop rejecting memes out of teen rebellion, and you'll be a long way towards being memed out of existence if you don't.

Step 1: Rigorously define 'ego.'

Step 2: Try not to facepalm so hard you sprain your wrist when you realize what an idiot you made of yourself.

>>4199

Cool. I'll analyze them and get back here when I can.

>>4214

For those who are following (It can go without saying there isn't anyone following but despite that I will add this).

Now I see what is meant by wasting time however I still hold a position that Stefan and Peter are right in their own respect. There's too much dispute with them and I with here to address any of it.

All of my time is preoccupied with life matters. So for the time being I'll lay it to rest.

>>4186

Nature has conspired against them. I honestly can't see how this isn't already obvious, there's so many red flags.

Yes, Molyneux is a shithead 95% of the time. His truth about X series are fucking golden though, including this one. I do recommend putting them on as background to something else, though. It shouldn't be dense enough to fully absorb your attention except for a few key points.

>>4172

More like counter-enlightenment lol.

>>4180

Counter-enlightenment best enlightenment

>>4166

its the spiders bro. those fucking spiders

Here's a layman's introduction to philosophy... https://vimeo.com/53000177

There are many questions surrounding immortality. Sorry to say I don't have a straight answer for you but that's what makes philosophy both fun and strenuous at times in regards to mental faculties.

"i would also enjoy some light reading material to help me get started in philosophy"

Go big or go home. Use the sticky for reference.

>>4202

>is there a belief or theory that the only way to be immortal is through leaving a huge/long legacy? like if one's purpose in life is to not die, evade death with a legacy to still exist in a way

there is the roman maxim, "vita brevis; ars longa," which translates to, "life is short; art is long," which explains the general roman philosophy on the concept of immortality.

best answers to your question i can give you is counterpoints from old marky marc(us aurelious). consider reading meme philosophers like Nietzsche if you want someone supportive of your idea.

> Hippocrates after curing many diseases himself fell sick and died. The Chaldaei foretold the deaths of many, and then fate caught them too. Alexander, and Pompeius, and Caius Caesar, after so often completely destroying whole cities, and in battle cutting to pieces many ten thousands of cavalry and infantry, themselves too at last departed from life. Heraclitus, after so many speculations on the conflagration of the universe, was filled with water internally and died smeared all over with mud. And lice destroyed Democritus; and other lice killed Socrates. What means all this? Thou hast embarked, thou hast made the voyage, thou art come to shore; get out. If indeed to another life, there is no want of gods, not even there. But if to a state without sensation, thou wilt cease to be held by pains and pleasures, and to be a slave to the vessel, which is as much inferior as that which serves it is superior: for the one is intelligence and deity; the other is earth and corruption.

> Do not act as if thou wert going to live ten thousand years. Death hangs over thee. While thou livest, while it is in thy power, be good.

> He who has a vehement desire for posthumous fame does not consider that every one of those who remember him will himself also die very soon; then again also they who have succeeded them, until the whole remembrance shall have been extinguished as it is transmitted through men who foolishly admire and perish. But suppose that those who will remember are even immortal, Post too long. Click here to view the full text.

I personally think a hankering for immortality is a form of denial. There's something far more immediate that's bothering you. Indeed it's so close you can only get it out of focus by gazing at the farthest possible distance.

Stop bitching about immortality and look at the thing in front of you that's about to eat your face. Maybe it's worth the effort of stopping it? At the very least, even if I'm wrong, you'll be distracted from questions of eternity while you deal with it.

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