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[ Literature ] [ E-books ] [ Politics ] [ Science ] [ Religion ]

File: abbcaa9ddfe8566⋯.jpg (39.61 KB,576x432,4:3,whuh.jpg)

cb5232 No.6135 [Open thread]

Hi anons, I have noticed something that most philosophers I know of are not talking about, at least resembling the way I am going to.

This has become increasingly obvious to the point of being quite painful to watch, every time it happens.

First I'm gonna lay out two concepts, and with every word I am using, I am not referring to the academic definition of that word, I'm going with common dictionary definitions.

Now, as I see it, there are two ways or techniques that people have argued a point in the past, and continue, to this day. The problem is that one of these has been used, in recent times, to a point of extreme unbalance.

The first way of arguing, I'll call something like foundationalism, or constructionism.

In this method, a person starts with the most simple, applicable, and prominent aspects of reality. In this method, a person uses truisms, laws of the universe, and very simple and effective reason to make their argument. They start with simple concepts, where there can really be no misinterpretation of meaning, and every concept they introduce is resting of the foundation of principles and laws that are so simple as to be common sense, or unmistakable. Any higher level concepts they introduce, any higher levels of abstraction, must rest firmly on these common sense principles and laws, and be clearly defined by these unmistakable terms.

In this way, the argument is constructed like a pyramid, with every level firmly resting and being supported by every layer below it, and every next higher layer is set upon the existing solid proofed structure, and is placed in a meaningful and supportive way, as an architect would be planning what he can put on the next story up, given what supports and walls and utilities are directly below it. In this way, the method builds layer upon sodlid layer, until eventually reaching the cap stone, the pinnacle of the argument.

The other method is quite easier to explain, because of how loose it is. This method I would call somethingPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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cb5232 No.6136

perhaps "substructionism" for method #2

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0435f2 No.6138

File: d238c35ed9ae21c⋯.png (120.61 KB,1548x1468,387:367,d238c35ed9ae21c82c6e918758….png)

Could you try to describe the 2nd method differently? I'm having trouble understanding.

Also I think the first method isn't necessarily a rock solid one. If the capstone proof you build towards is not reasonable than it indicates that the "simple universal truisms" were not universal and that there are exceptions or else you would not have reached a fallacious conclusion. Perhaps its a useful method of poking holes in bedrock assumptions.

There can also be contradictory "simple truisms". For example the lolbergs construct all their views off the foundation that "its always wrong to initiate violence against another person", and this seems like an obvious concept, but this is an enlightenment idea that has no basis in how humans have behaved for the preceding 2 million years of hominid history. The more fundamental truism that runs contradictory to the above truism is that "you must survive, reproduce, and assist your family/tribe in performing those functions". And the set of conclusions you reach from that truism are entirely different than of the first truism.

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3a6e42 No.6166

>>6135

I think that with the second one you described the way i see language teaching in schools these days. You are just assumed to remember every little detail the teacher and books have tried to teach you. They do not care if you miss a step, they just go on without you. Of if you tag along, you end up with no foundation to keep building your language skill on, being stuck in an endless loop of "i know that this grammar rule works like it does because teacher said so, not because i know or understand why". Which is why i'm 21, been learning russian since 12 and can only read it fluently, but not understand jack shit

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188af9 No.6198

For the first part, the reason is largely that you can't prove very much from first principles*, not even mathematically thanks kurt "buzzkill" gödel so trying to be rigorous is super-boring and frustrating when you can just start from your conclusion and hand wave your way through the hazy parts of your reasoning like you seem to be describing in method 2.

*no, shut up renee descartes

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File: 3229e98baf98e23⋯.jpg (60.21 KB,744x600,31:25,Armalite-AR-5-NASM-NASM-9A….jpg)

9ef693 No.6183 [Open thread]

I'd like to read Spengler's The Decline of the West. I can borrow an English translation of it by Charles Francis Atkinson, published in 1926.

Will I be set to just 'jump in' to Spengler's work or do I need to slog my way through the Greeks, Nietzsche, Hegel, Schopenhauer etc. first?

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435eb5 No.6187

>>6183

Just read it, any beggining is fine

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9ef693 No.6189

>>6187

Okay, thanks mate.

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File: 1430279002381.png (18.52 KB,427x633,427:633,Socrates's nigger face.png)

8e27a9 No.1454 [Open thread]

was Socrates black?

24 posts and 5 image replies omitted. Click [Open thread] to view. ____________________________
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2357a7 No.6120

>>1454

Does it matter?

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c3d1e3 No.6124

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05800c No.6131

>>1454

Sure, whatever.

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0fc642 No.6154

"Is it okay to kill people?"

>7 replies

"Was Socrates black?"

>27 replies

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0fc642 No.6155

>>5557

>/pol/ is only "politics"

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YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

efe9c7 No.1895 [Open thread]

Let's start with Lain.

>existentialist themes

>post-modern themes

>alienation themes

>cyberpunk themes

Plot:

>girl falls into the internet

>meets the God of the internet

>questions God

>questions ontology

>questions Epistemology/what is true vs what is believed

>questions wheter if enough people believe something it can become true

>questions [spoiler] how a God who used to be human could have become a God unless he was created by someone higher.

>realizes she made him and is actually the real God of the internet

>deletes herself from existence for the better good, so she won't be tempted to meddle with and harm a lesser species.

[/spoiler]

How would you classify Serial Experiments in Lain? Are there any other good anime for thinkers?

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0ee0bd No.6066

>>6063

there's a 90% chance you're a weaboo

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4dfcb7 No.6068

Psycho pass

>morality and order (the girl mc)

>truth seeking greenpills in two versions: chaos and order

>sibyl system caused said seekers to clash among each other to protect the truth

>only recent cyberpunk theme so far

good stuff

preview:

>chaos fag gave weapon to mc while having hostage of her friend

>moralfag can't save her friend didn't want to dirty her hands

>???

lol

overall the show is shitilly one-sided but explains a lot.

dogs will be dogs.

>>4803

I believe Lain is a bit pandering though I like the aesthetic. Not really philosophical but actually out of all animes I've watched so far - really dismantled the "ego" concept and ascension bullshit. More like "The Matrix" kind of anime.

also

>theory salad

>unexplained scenes like her sister babbling and seeing some shit

Horror/10

AI fags

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4dfcb7 No.6069

>>6068

Also the only interesting character in psycho pass talked about "free will" many times.

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47d9a3 No.6129

File: e239b41f847fedf⋯.jpg (25.06 KB,480x360,4:3,hqdefault.jpg)

>>6068

>unexplained scenes like her sister babbling and seeing some shit

Those scenes start making a bit more sense when you realise that Her family isnt an actual family and that her sister was just an earlier attempt to create a 'lain' in the real world.

The scenes are basically the failed experiment not being able to maintain cohesion or stability as the wired starts melding with the wired and Lain starts gaining influence.

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a16fd2 No.6159

Kafka's, a country doctor by yamamura. It's just an adaptation of Kafka so it's got it's existentialist street cred. It's a decent adaptation if you can handle somewhat experimental animation.

Ghost in the shell (1995)

Kind of basic and by the book philosophically, but classic anime, great animation, and of course one of the main visual works that established the feel of the cyberpunk aesthetic along with Bladerunner

Haibane Renmei

Mild surrealism, angst, and existentialism wrapped up in a slice of life. Not overtly philosophical, but what little is there is important.

>>2995

Eva (tv) is Freud plus Positive psychology 101 shoved into a contrarian("deconstructionist") mecha show.

End of Evangalon ep 1 is Biblical symbolism cliffs notes and Freudian bullshit dialed up to 11.

EoE ep 2 is just Anno screaming at the viewer "GET A LIFE YOU IMMATURE DELUSIONAL VIRGIN OTAKU LOSERS!!!!"

That last one is actually what makes Eva valuable IMO, it's rare to watch something where the director so clearly holds his audience in contempt.

>>6068

>unexplained scenes like her sister babbling and seeing some shit

You mean the one in the diner? If I recall correctly there was a companion scene to that one, where it was further implied that the "sister" wasn't actually real, but maybe another aspect of lain/or other entity existing in the wired. (I can't find the screenshot but I believe there was a scene that was just like the first, excepting the sister had already disappeared, and the "messages" she saw in the first scene appeared on someone's cell phone. Nonlinear narrative and all that.)

Anyways, while there weren't really clear explanations for everything, I thinPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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File: 4db6efea5052cc0⋯.jpg (121.16 KB,746x488,373:244,Epicteti_Enchiridion_Latin….jpg)

7b778c No.5819 [Open thread]

What's /philosophy/'s opinion on stoicism? Is it good the way it is, or is it bad?

17 posts and 1 image reply omitted. Click [Open thread] to view. ____________________________
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df0340 No.6111

>>6110

So... not apathy at all?

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7f8a10 No.6118

>>6110

That is so cherry picked to fit into that reactionary anti-tumblr mindset on imageboards.

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f10b94 No.6123

>>5992

What?

Good and bad are not the same as Good and Evil. I was referring to judgments based on personal opinion.

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d414d4 No.6127

>>6123

Things being Good(R) and Bad(R) are not the same as being good or bad.

Could not agree more. Sometimes it feels so good to do Bad(R) things.

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3e725e No.6128

Stoicism negative visualization when brought into words can be very annoying.

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File: 3d64a7b828a9e72⋯.jpg (97.8 KB,700x450,14:9,1470002910160.jpg)

7550fe No.6097 [Open thread]

Are finns white?

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cfc02c No.6098

File: 516418eb78658c6⋯.jpg (72 KB,462x640,231:320,BrekerLens.jpg)

>>6097

Not philosophical.

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1a9873 No.6099

Metaphysically? ... perhaps by some theories.

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File: 1434910229129.jpg (113.25 KB,1024x768,4:3,Arthur_Schopenhauer_1.jpg)

fbfb38 No.1728 [Open thread]

Name german thinkers,the most important ones AND the most obscure yet published ones.

for some reason thinkers from that particular country seem to interest me.

>nazi ones too

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fbfb38 No.3589

>>1733

Spengler (although he wasn't a national socialist)?

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aa8d2a No.5671

NAME A BUMP

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c81d9c No.5724

>>3589

doesn't matter, more of a National Bolshevist

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833877 No.6085

Check out Oswald Spengler and Carl Schmitt if you're into far right ideas.

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1d6428 No.6095

File: be93607c1f685c0⋯.jpg (87.07 KB,1600x900,16:9,ar-15 with german idealism.jpg)

>>1733

Add Hamann and that's a solid list.

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File: 6eae2384d6f1f7e⋯.jpeg (13.3 KB,299x168,299:168,Download.jpeg)

2c3359 No.6078 [Open thread]

"What is this?"

"A chance to die?"

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File: 3de1f4a0d846e34⋯.jpeg (27.52 KB,454x276,227:138,154BF8C3-FDB8-4D1B-B704-4….jpeg)

f09cdf No.5841 [Open thread]

is wrestling gay since it's a bunch of sweaty shirtless dudes hugging eachother?

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25a36d No.5848

The range of what is and isn't acceptable as far as male interactions go has become very small today. Look at early photographs and you'll find that dudes touching each other wasn't considered homoerotic back then.

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e68498 No.5854

File: 7801dd586d057c9⋯.png (546.25 KB,1280x532,320:133,Frodo_and_Sam_at_Mt_Doom.png)

>>5848

Not directly philosophy related, but I've been thinking about this topic a lot recently. My main bets are on the Sexual Revolution, among with other reductive lines of thinking from the 20th century which have implied that free will does not exist and we are only chemical reactions.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/how-the-sexual-revolution-ruined-friendship

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d86218 No.5868

only if they become erect while doing so

if you become erect while they wrestle you are at least a little gay, but that dosnt make wrestling gay

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049661 No.6049

Yes, and this makes both Abraham and Gilgamesh gay.

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b60b41 No.6055

>>5844

Correct. You can suck tranny dick and still be straight, as long as balls don't touch.

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File: 8c86d38f02d2bdd⋯.jpeg (61.61 KB,736x691,736:691,1508438721387.jpeg)

742d2c No.6030 [Open thread]

Describe this iconic Disney character

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f6163f No.6032

Literally who.

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9a2ff9 No.6040

One too many dimensions, and not enough boobage.

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File: ac10a96f27a0508⋯.jpg (19.11 KB,255x224,255:224,43deff333b345d9772be55f991….jpg)

cd492e No.6006 [Open thread]

Ukip's Gerard Batten reiterates his belief that Islam is a "death cult".

So... can we now GET THEM OUT OF EUROPE??

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/18/ukip-gerard-batten-islam-muslims-quran

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e07d48 No.6007

Fuck off to your containment board

Screaming autist

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5b88f8 No.6008

Is It Is

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File: f5508768c90f9f7⋯.gif (693.42 KB,444x613,444:613,1516946140982.gif)

703f61 No.5894 [Open thread]

Rules: if roll any prime number between 1 and 97, ==you're out of /b for good. You can never ever get back again.==

>this is your own commitment. Nobody would force you.

>you can only roll one time.

>you have to get your shit together. Have a life away from here, be brave

>this place is dying anyway.

hard-core mode

You give up to all social media. No FB, no Instagram, no shit.

Want to talk to someone, call him/her. Talk in real life.

Want to post something, make a blog and be creative.

>you must post ==hard-core== to roll on this mode.

Ok

I'll go first.

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ec25d8 No.5968

Vat is ze meaning of this

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65c2d7 No.6017

>>5894

Alright, I'll give it a whirl even though the last time I used FB was 6 years ago and only use other social medias for news/keeping in touch in my almost non existent social circle

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0a062c No.6027

Call me to arrange a meeting where I will tell you about my blog post that explains what I didn't do.

protip: I win*

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b0e0b9 No.6067

If I get it I'm doing hard core because I really fuckin need it tbh

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a8be19 No.6564

hardcore

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File: 6ae79cd14d1e2c7⋯.png (1 MB,697x1101,697:1101,4f29520093435133b332b24cee….png)

33b78b No.5967 [Open thread]

This board is empty and will stay empty until the mods start banning people making shitty posts. I know, I know, "muh masters censoring muh ego" but why have a board dedicated to philosophy, and make no attempt to keep it as a board dedicates to philosophy? Waste of time.

Also the "philosopher-posting" of answering questions in a strange way gives me that empty airy "cringe" feeling in my chest, stop

Why so few flags?

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5c724b No.5973

>flags

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File: 46e945dcd05b41d⋯.jpg (11.23 KB,225x225,1:1,420221_232157840202653_131….jpg)

279d8a No.5943 [Open thread]

I've been reading comments/posts of the younger generation...and... We as Humans young or old have our own thoughts/and way of life (so we think!)...BUT... as you get Older you realize, Life is about Continuing!

When we were younger...it was about being with friends, trying new things etc...but as we Age...we learn!...What We Now, compared to what we didn't know then...Life could've been FANTASTIC...but nobody told us the Real story. Life changes and we adapt - learn AGAIN!

Life changes everyday, people change, jobs change, we move on... don't think for a moment that what YOU know today...Is going to be the same tomorrow :) Enjoy Life.. Learn, Live & Appreciate !! 50 something!! :)

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File: 04bbeb0ddd31a16⋯.jpg (14.06 KB,220x298,110:149,Nietzsche187a.jpg)

34d839 No.4915 [Open thread]

Is there any philosophy behind racialism/nationalism? Why would I dedicate my live to other people?

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767aaa No.5787

>>5774

Why don't you return to your country?

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328042 No.5861

>>5316

First time visiting this post and this made me response, even as a philosophical retard.

Hwhites mutts and Europeans indeed have it too good. Even in a place of rationality they can't even reflect upon how and why it is possible that they can sit here and mentally jerk off.

>>5774

spics are the worst. More so than niggers and kikes I believe. Hyper sexualized and lazy. That's why I can't think of any philosopher who came from that shithole.

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ac3ffb No.5862

Given that you're a nihilist, you may find this interesting:

Nihilism is the foundation of Conservatism

by Brett Stevens

Pity the poor conservatives. Historically, we are those who refused to join the Revolution and instead held that we should preserve what was best about the past and require that “new” ideas be tested before we adopted them. Not like anyone has listened to that of course.

Better than science, this is the past as it happened. It has zero conjectural component, including the idea that what can be reproduced in the lab will somehow occur in life. In 1789, as during the signing of the Magna Carta and the various peasant revolts, society split into two. One side took the “new” idea of equality of all people, which basically means do whatever you want short of murder, rape and theft, and the latter held to the idea that social order was necessary. Hierarchy was more important than individualism, in that view.

Over time the idea of do-whatever-you-want has proven, time and again, to be more popular. It is easier for the mind to comprehend and does not entangle it in any of the troubling details of reality. As a pure thought alone, removed from all else, it comforts us. Each person is important. No person must suffer for social standards, cultural values or something as arcane as identity. We are all one, because we are each the same. You can imagine zombies coming over the hill chanting that, sustained by the sense of being important by avoiding the twin extremes of unimportance and having actually achieved something. If we measure importance by achievement, some will win and the rest lose, but if we go egalitarian/altruistic, everyone wins some importance even if it is paltry and insignificant because everyone else has it. The human mind has not yet evolved to think as many steps forward as it requires to understand this.

In contrast to this stands the conservative idea. Composed of two parts, its first prong is consequentialism or the idea that “new” ideas should be tested and their actual results in physical reality found to be good, no matter how long it takesPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

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daa30e No.5921

>>5774

I'm an expat and my experience is less one-sided.

I'm quite wary of immigrants from my country. I'm not the only one. Most of the people in our expat community know this.

There are two sides of the coin:

On one hand, my people are the best. They can help greatly. The level of philosophical alignment is much higher than with people of other nations.

And here comes the problem: They know you too well. They know your weak points. They know how to scam you. They know the amount of abuse that you'll swallow.

This is very similar to doing business with relatives. Generally, they might be close people, but the end result is often disastrous.

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daa30e No.5922

>>5862

It's hard for me to reason about conservatives as I have yet to see one.

Actions of most of the adepts of political ideologies are very different from what they preach.

Same with conservatives. Those who call themselves conservatives mostly try to conserve their power, wealth, authority and part of their backyard. They jump on any untested (or tested and found poisonous) novelty as long as it conserves and strengthens their main values (power, wealth).

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