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/ratanon/ - Rationalists Anonymous

Remember when /ratanon/ was good?

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File: 48692f839e86b72⋯.jpg (58.09 KB,540x960,9:16,4ad.jpg)

 No.14181 [Open thread]

CMV: Suicide is a rational choice for many people

Life has no meaning.

Due to that the only thing that really matters is the quality of the journey. Do you enjoy the Dance/Game of life.

If most of the time Life is shitty for you (High amounts of suffering), even if nothing terrible really happens. You're probably better off dead. Why would you like to experience a shitty time?

Possible counterarguments – answers

Not everybody feel more suffering than joy in their life – It's true, but many do. I would assume > 10%. Many of these people choose to live only due to fear of death, or to serve ideologies, religions or other spooks. They are being used by the system just like animals that are bred for their meat. It doesn't mean their life worth experiencing.

Even if it's rational to commit suicide, it's not easy or sometimes even possible, Survival instinct is a bitch – I agree, My argument only says that's the "rational" thing to do, the one that makes sense. Not that's it's easy or always possible.

Some people live for other people – Agreed again, if you have dependents (like small children) maybe it's better you won't kill yourself and leave them alone. Your friends/parents/wife are also a reasonable reason, but weaker IMO - if they really love you they should understand that death might be better for you.

14 postsomitted. Click reply to view. ____________________________
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 No.14337

>>14298

>The expected number of actual people trying the quantum billionaire trick is much smaller than the expected number of fictional people written by Scott trying it

Scott's only one man, and he won't likely be making the same kind of rationalist-y fiction you can hypothesise about by knowing Scott's writing decades from now, and he hasn't even written on the quantum billionaire trick, so the expectation that gives me is <1. What kind of assumptions are you making to get expectations that make a Pascal's-Mugging-adjacent "even a little bit" argument viable?

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 No.14339

>>14181

You know nobody's going to change your view, yet you have no intention of suicide. Funny that.

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 No.14340

>>14337

I think it's very unlikely that even one person is going to try the quantum billionaire trick, at least until ems are invented.

If you find yourself seriously considering it then you're arguably pretty likely to be a fictional character. If you care in the abstract about how fictional rationalisty people are portrayed, then you should take that into consideration, because there's a decent chance you'll influence that.

This consideration still isn't as important as the possibility of dying and/or becoming a billionaire, but it might be enough to change some specifics about the way you execute it, or be a tiebreaker.

It's not likely*important enough to be an imperative, but it's likely enough to take into consideration.

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 No.14342

>>14340

I was completely serious about >>14200, other than implementation specifics, and I'm not a fictional character as far as I can tell. I'm not suicidal, but in general I have a hard time believing the set of people who (believe they) have nothing to lose, from now until the invention of ems, contains 0 people who consider quantum suicide trickery worth messing with.

Also your whole argument still relies on fictional characters having a conscious experience. My intuition is that it would be wasteful to simulate a universe with this level of complexity simply for storytelling, so it would be relatively easy to identify your world as created for narrative purposes from the inside. Our universe would need to meet that criteria before I can bother worrying about whether I'm in a Scott masterwork or some plebeian mass entertainment.

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 No.14343

>>14342

>Also your whole argument still relies on fictional characters having a conscious experience.

It doesn't. By being the kind of person who would consider the possibility of being in a story, a fictional character based on people like you will be more likely to consider the possibility of being in a story.

That's the beauty of acausal decision theory. You can acausally influence the behavior of your simulation, often even if the simulation is insufficiently detailed to be conscious.

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File: 8d374fa6fc9cf2b⋯.jpeg (95.76 KB,1200x1141,1200:1141,scottest.jpeg)

 No.14307 [Open thread]

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/04/some-clarifications-on-rationalist-blogging/

> Insofar as SSC makes any pretensions to rationality at all, it’s a rationalist picnic and not a rationalist monastery. (…) Everything above applies to SSC’s engagement with effective altruism too, except 100x more. (…) I’ve been consistently skeptical of claims that rationality has much practical utility if you’re already pretty smart and have good intuitions and domain-specific knowledge. (…) In any case, if rationality has much practical utility for your everyday life, you won’t find that practical utility here.

Did anything happen recently? Is it in response to something?

While Scott claims he doesn't distance himself from the community, it sounds like " rationality and EA are interesting, but they might make little to no practical difference, treat them as interesting concepts, but don't expect me to continue providing substantial input on things in the movement, calling out bad actors or addressing controversies". As much as I'd like Scott to remain heavily involved, I respect his need for autonomy and keeping SSC a place for people with diverse backgrounds.

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 No.14308

File: a1a5d84ac9e2a46⋯.png (49.12 KB,1029x530,1029:530,tmp_32421.png)

Scott embraced cultural evolution and came out as NRx.

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 No.14314

Scott just doesn't want to be blamed for everything associated with rationality and EA when he's only responsible for what he himself posts on SSC.

He's not the leader or the movement or anything, obviously, since there is no organized movement with leaders.

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 No.14338

>>14314

You mean he's a coward who doesn't stand by his own followers.

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File: 090cb1be8fe902f⋯.png (4.62 KB,188x188,1:1,cea-logo.png)

 No.14305 [Open thread]

I consider applying for an unpaid internship at CEA. Have you had any experiences with them? If you could choose, would you go for the Berkeley or Oxford office?

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 No.14315

>>14305

>I consider applying for an unpaid internship at CEA.

Why?

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 No.14193 [Open thread]

How should you deal with issues of anger and resentment?

1 postomitted. Click reply to view. ____________________________
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 No.14220

Become an edgy left-wing artist.

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 No.14234

>>14213

Anything. Does it matter?

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 No.14236

>>14234

I'm not sure, the general solutions are probably harder (meditation, learning to control your emotions, etc.) and you might want to deal with each cause anyway which could easily go in opposite directions.

Miscommunication, injustice, inability to stand your ground, "entitlement", a burdensome family member, petty envy, etc. can all foster anger and resentment.

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 No.14238

>>14236

Then anger and resentment over any of those.

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 No.14289

>>14238

drugs

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 No.14281 [Open thread]

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/07/02/editing-unsong/

> "onoes, what if someone calls me racist for an absolutely fucking inoffensive joke about china D: D: D:"

please someone archive.is the entire novel before scott cucks it up kthx ?

let's see if /ratanon/ Gets Shit Done or if this board is less capable than fucking /tg/

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 No.14284

try this:

wget -p –mirror –reject-regex=".*replytocom.*" https://unsongbook.com/

I haven't checked to make sure the reject-regex works. You'll know it works if you don't download a lot of index.html?replytocom= links.

I think I got banned. You should probably put in some kind of waiting option.

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 No.14285

git clone https://github.com/moorederodeo/Unsong-In-Ebook-Format

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 No.14288

>>14285

thanks :D

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 No.14291

This thread should be merged into >>10776. Polite תנא.

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File: a767c3c44652748⋯.jpg (11.66 KB,255x247,255:247,1444393497850.jpg)

 No.7768 [Open thread]

Place your bets for the future of /ratanon/ here

Mine:

Within one year this board will be dead (2:1)

Within one year this board will be regularly referenced in conversation by rationalists on tumblr, LW and IRC (5:1)

Within one year, Big Yud will emphatically disavow this board (10:1)

Within one year, Dr. Slate will emphatically disavow this board (10:1)

Big Yud has posted here already (100:1)

Big Yud will end up talking to the FBI because of this board (10,000:1)

Within the next five years, Salon/Slate/the Atlantic/etc will have a cover story about the burgeoning rationalist movement that cites posts on this board as evidence of universally held rationalist opinions (1,000,000:1)

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 No.14177

>>14175

Yeesh, why is /ratanon/ so dead? Tragic

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 No.14178

>>14175

ah that explains it. I was going to disparage OP's prediction abilities for saying IRC instead of discord.

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 No.14240

>>14178

The IRC still exists.

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 No.14241

>>14240

Do people talk in it? I tried it when the board was nuked, but I think I was there for a week or so without any messages.

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 No.14274

>>7772

/ratanon/ is currently good. How do I collect?

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File: ecd45c8718fc5f4⋯.jpg (112.58 KB,1280x720,16:9,6546546.jpg)

 No.14243 [Open thread]

Attack on Titan gets good.

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 No.14248

In what way does it get good?

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 No.14251

File: 3347976fb1852f1⋯.png (980.9 KB,1005x727,1005:727,Pieck_crawling.png)

>>14248

Mostly turns out to have great worldbuilding and decent character development, season 2 also fixes pacing.

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 No.14260

File: 09590bac9c80f93⋯.jpg (336.74 KB,1920x1080,16:9,image.jpg)

Attack on Titan STARTED out good. It went to hell when they introduced titan shifters and undid that thing they did, and it never recovered.

I really, really want to see the nihilistic cosmic horror show I thought I was getting.

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 No.14266

File: 9890fdebc020f8e⋯.jpg (537.99 KB,1067x1600,1067:1600,0085-043.jpg)

File: cc7c8b90c557386⋯.png (466.87 KB,640x959,640:959,0092-007.png.png)

File: a5716cc8cad9274⋯.png (501.98 KB,640x959,640:959,0092-001.png.png)

>>14260

SPOILERS AHEAD (Pictures are spoilers too).

How far did you watch after the first shifters?

Shifters are pretty horrifying, that girl on all fours is a brainwashed child soldier, she walks like that because her shifter is quadrupedal so she got used to it, inhereting a shifter power is done by eating the former host after being turned into a mindless "pure titan" with a spinal fluid injection, they all die 13 years afterwards. Eren became a shifter after eating his dad and has like 5 years left.

The island with the 3 walls they all think is the last bastion of humanity is actually a "penal colony" for their race (only they can turn into titans) that hasn't been wiped out yet because of an alleged dead man's switch, the mindless "pure titans" oaming outside are mostly people that got exiled and turned into titans as punishment by the rest of the world which views their race as subhuman devils (shifter soldiers help the humans outside fight the island partially because of brainwashing and partially to earn a chance for their families to become honorary humans and be granted minimal human rigths).

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 No.14271

>>14266

You can spoiler images in the post options, and you can spoiler text by surrounding it by double asterisks (** on each side).

You can also delete your own post from the post menu in the top left of your post.

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File: 2f07c6886c77773⋯.png (509.72 KB,825x619,825:619,2f0.png)

 No.14227 [Open thread]

Suppose your life and well-being depends on earning $2 each hour you live, no matter what you do (~$1,500/month).

You can't take any illegal steps, launch a crowdfunding campaign, collect it in social benefits or UBI, sell bodily fluids, webcam, invest a large sum of money, or work - except for a short period of setting up a stream of passive income and managing it for an hour or two per week.

Whatcha gonna do, Ratanon?

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 No.14231

>>14230

Can you actually get a job with that sort of pay while working just two hours per week?

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 No.14232

600k in index funds is probably sufficient

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 No.14233

>>14232

I feel like that's covered by "invest a large sum of money"

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 No.14235

>>14227

Why the seemingly arbitrary limit of 2 hours a week?

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 No.14267

Short Google.

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 No.14182 [Open thread]

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/06/18/if-kim-jong-un-opened-a-kfc-would-you-eat-there/

Scott is becoming a vegetarian.

Every single one I know is a crazy, virtue-signalling weakling. Gut flora changes probably lead to mental illness, the body atrophies and they become incompatible with sane people…

What would be the most rational way to convince him against this nonsense?

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 No.14185

>Every single one I know is a crazy, virtue-signalling weakling.

Scott is already like that though. I like the guy, and his signalling is likely both honest and done because he considers it prosocial, but still.

>Gut flora changes probably lead to mental illness, the body atrophies and they become incompatible with sane people…

I'd guess it's not that going vegetarian makes you a weirdo, but that you'd have to be pretty odd already to go vegetarian/vegan and stick to it.

>What would be the most rational way to convince him against this nonsense?

Farm animals have no moral value, there's no reason to care about minimizing their suffering. Good luck explaining why it's fine and important to care about human suffering after saying that though. Also good luck explaining to a 9001 IQ AI why it should care about you when you don't care about the cow that got killed to make your hamburger. Even if you don't think you'll ever meet such an AI, you'll be talking to people who believe they will, and they'll want you to prepare their argument.

Alternatively, prove that vegetarian diets have significant negative impact on health and argue that improving a person's (be it any given person or one person in particular) well-being and productivity outweighs saving some animals from being factory farmed and slaughtered.

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 No.14186

>every single person I know who signals compassion in this expensive way is a virtue signaller

There's an obvious explanation for this that doesn't involve gut flora

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 No.14201

>>14186

Brain flora

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File: a258bb00ff9dd47⋯.jpg (33.28 KB,500x500,1:1,autodidact-day.jpg)

 No.7843 [Open thread]

Can reading LW and SSC substitute for a university education?

8 postsand1 image replyomitted. Click reply to view. ____________________________
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 No.7852

>>7846

Eh, programming is indeed not taught in LessWrong or SSC.

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 No.7853

>>7852

http://lesswrong.com/lw/l4/terminal_values_and_instrumental_values/

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 No.7854

File: 9ee3e86bfab74a2⋯.jpg (32.53 KB,480x360,4:3,frustrated_lesswrong_guy.jpg)

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 No.7855

>>7844

>But education is all about the signaling, and "I read SSC" doesn't substitute for a degree on your CV.

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 No.14173

>>7843

No.

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File: 953442169bc007b⋯.png (314.69 KB,2310x1094,1155:547,ScottVsEliezer.png)

 No.11962 [Open thread]

Scott Alexander or Eliezer Yudkowsky?

23 postsand2 image repliesomitted. Click reply to view. ____________________________
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 No.12800

>>11962

Obviously it's Brian Tomasik (reducing-suffering.org), John Nerst (everythingstudies.com) and of course the boy Hanson.

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 No.12801

>>11962

Gwern, obviously. His dry autism makes me horny beyond belief.

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 No.12807

>>12801

Dry autism sounds like a nice fetish, because you can just fap to #lesswrong.

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 No.14171

Fucking PLEBBITORS get off my board; ree.

https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/comments/c1he3o/the_virgin_scott_vs_the_chad_eliezer/

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 No.14245

File: 0609f9bca821a16⋯.gif (528.47 KB,480x270,16:9,2a667f0d31c9ae85f63300d5f4….gif)

>>14171

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File: 7980c616e1ae224⋯.png (401.03 KB,998x1224,499:612,IMG_20190608_232422.png)

 No.14140 [Open thread]

How can I become as good at AI science as the famous and widely cited American computer scientist, decision theorist, philosopher, mathematician, science popularizer, writer and altruist Eliezer S. Yudkowsky?

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 No.14155

>>14154

XML good too

http://yudkowsky.net/obsolete/plan.html#tech_comp_flare

http://flarelang.sourceforge.net/

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 No.14162

>>14155

>The Plan to Singularity

He really was serious about this

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 No.14167

>>14155

>Flare is a proposal for a new programming language, the first annotative programming language, in which programs, data, and the program state are all represented as well-formed XML.

Lol, so late 90s/early 2000s

Too lazy to fill this out for Flare: https://famicol.in/language_checklist.html

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 No.14168

>>14155

>>14167

Thankfully MIRI now accepts that type theory is the way, the truth, and the light. They even recruit from ICFP now, I met some of them there last year. How far they have come from the ignominious beginnings of "Flare"!

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 No.14169

>>14167

The most obvious candidate is of course

>[ ] You have reinvented Lisp but worse

The similarities to Lisp are constantly stressed, which makes it all the much funnier to run into the sentence

>I have substantial experience in C++ but none whatsoever in LISP

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File: 8dd6fcac2ce3a9b⋯.jpg (130.64 KB,350x350,1:1,R-13634334.jpg)

 No.14156 [Open thread]

I haven't been following ssc for a while but I like this sequence.

On "ASYMMETRIC WEAPONS GONE BAD" there's this:

>Deleted a controversial section which I still think was probably correct, but which given the number of objections wasn’t provably correct enough to be worth including. I might write another post giving my evidence for it later, but it probably shouldn’t be dropped in here without justification.

Does anyone have an archive link or something ? I'm curious.

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 No.14160

File: b80d623cf853eef⋯.png (139.49 KB,651x955,651:955,removed.png)

https://archive.is/QUA8l

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 No.14161

>>14160

Wow, that was better than anything that was left in the text.

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File: a9f9d1e10166941⋯.jpeg (82.99 KB,600x335,120:67,yud.jpeg)

 No.6824 [Open thread][Last50 Posts]

Seriously, he had some good ideas but his application of them is terrible. His writing style is garbage and he can't say anything without coming across as the world's biggest autist. He's a PR disaster.

Time to leave him behind?

90 postsand8 image repliesomitted. Click reply to view. ____________________________
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 No.14131

>>14130

Good one.

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 No.14132

>>14126

>high time preference thinking

?

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 No.14137

>>14132

Being a disgusting junkie who prefers to be high all the time.

Or maybe this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preference

which is not incompatible with the former definition.

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 No.14150

>>6866

>a crackpot who believed in the terrifying dangers of formal AI (long after actual AI researchers had realized the future lay in neural networks

If anything, neural networks are more dangerous, because they are less well-understood. That "AI researchers had realized the future lay in neural networks" is not a mark against Yud's stance.

Also, Yud wrote his things in ~2008, whereas the realisation that neural networks didn't start in earnest until 2012 with Alex Krizhevksy's great success in the Imagenet competition (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&cites=2071317309766942398).

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 No.14151

>>11625

Underrated post

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File: 29492838c24e9e3⋯.jpg (42.8 KB,634x414,317:207,1408624676156_wps_5_World_….jpg)

 No.14064 [Open thread]

>effective altruism

>tries to save 70 IQ sub-saharan Africans rather than wipe them out and use their resources to breed more high IQ whites/East Asians

It doesn't seem very effective to me

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 No.14073

>>14065

I think this is inevitable. We should strive to leave as much science and tech on this planet as possible for these will probably be our only long-term legacies.

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 No.14074

>>14072

Neither is going to be done. Instead Africanization of the world threatens to permanently stop economic growth.

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 No.14075

>>14072

The average IQ in many parts of Sub-Saharan Africa is in the low 70s, they are never goin to "develop." That's a standard deviation lower than the shitty parts of Latin America. They are basically a different branch of the genus homo.

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 No.14125

AI will advance to a degree that it can be easily controlled by the elites to reign over their homogenous africanoid worker population who subsist on insects and live in coffin apartments.

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 No.14139

>>14072

Or you could A C C E L E R A T E and create an omnimalevolent AI before someone else does

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