No.6824 [Last50 Posts]
Seriously, he had some good ideas but his application of them is terrible. His writing style is garbage and he can't say anything without coming across as the world's biggest autist. He's a PR disaster.
Time to leave him behind?
____________________________
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No.6825
EY has pretty much won at life.
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No.6826
He was left behind long ago. He's only relevant to AI crackpots.
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No.6827
The sequences was EY at his peak. Everything he is done since then has been a downhill ride.
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No.6828
>>6825
He left us dweebs behind long ago. I'm pretty sure EY was just some chad jock trolling us.
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No.6829
>>6828
How does it feel knowing that not only is chad better than you at everything else, but he's also smarter than you?
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No.6830
>>6829
All those cartoons lied to us and were just feel good egalitarian bullshit.
Sure, the bully might stronger than you, but he's just a big dumb lunk.
Nope. Fucking ubermensches.
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No.6831
What I find weirdest about Yud is that while I believe he has a very high IQ and is committed to rationality, he doesn't seem to understand that IQ /= achievement, or even intellectual worth. Not only that, he is comically unable to hide how much of his ego is caught up in merely having a high IQ.
My favorite example of this is in the comments on 'the level above mine'
http://lesswrong.com/lw/ua/the_level_above_mine/
when someone comments to say that he's in the 'top 10 or 20 smartest people they know' and he replies with
'To all commenters who observed that I don't seem to stand out from 10 other smart people they know, either you didn't comprehend the entirety of today's post, or you have very high confidence that you occupy the highest possible rank of human ability.'
i.e., it's almost impossible for someone to prove that he's not the smartest person they've ever met.
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No.6832
>>6831
I don't know if he's right, but there are some people for whom that statement is reasonable and I can't confidently say that Eliezer is not one of them.
One the other hand, fuck his degenerate behaviour and fuck those who justify it via might-makes-right morality.
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No.6833
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No.6834
he's selected himself into obscurity. his life today is a golden prison, and its own punishment.
his wife is a brain-dead cow and his groupies are autistic slaves who siphon away their income to babysit hiv-positive African mosquito fodder, while optimizing javascript frontends for obscure web frameworks.
he chose to glorify himself. he shunned an applied understanding of the systems of the world. he chose this future.
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No.6835
>>6834
>he chose this future
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No.6836
>>6834
> while optimizing javascript frontends for obscure web frameworks
The most rational career of all.
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No.6837
>>6825
it's like l. ron hubbard reincarnated as a neckbeard jew
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No.6838
This thread is really funny when you know that EY's "internet critics" all look like this.
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No.6839
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No.6840
>>6839
You'd think it's meant as a burn, but it's the actual truth. Picture is gotten from here:
https://encyclopediadramatica.se/David_Gerard
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No.6841
>>6838
>This is your average RW user
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No.6842
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No.6843
>>6838
Weak b8.
True irony is Yud's self-obsession, in the middle of the world's most altruist-posturing community.
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No.6844
>>6840
>You'd think it's meant as a burn, but it's the actual truth.
Is English your second language?
These two sentences don't mean the same thing:
"This thread is really funny when you know that EY's "internet critics" all look like this."
vs
"This thread is really funny when you know that one of EY's "internet critics" looks like this."
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No.6845
>>6844
The problem is the disconnect here. It's true that, in the wider web, most of EY's most fervent critics are a bunch of pretty pathetic communists that get a rise from whatever little relevance they can muster.
But their criticism isn't of their appearance, and those here that make fun of him for being a fat fuck with awful hair and beard don't really belong to the same group than the others. Or at least I'd hope, if not….
COMMIES GET OUT, REEEEEEEEEEEE
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No.6846
>>6844
You got me, not everyone of EY's "internet critics" is a drag queen like David Gerard. You also have the pathetic fatasses like Robert Gross, the mentally ill like Alexander Kruel and people who are so ashamed of themselves that they will delete everything they've ever written once people start finding out their identity like su3su2u1. Which one are you?
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No.6847
>>6846
The anonymous kind, duh. Did you forget where you were?
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No.6848
>>6840
Wait, David Gerard is reddragdiva dot tumblr dot com? This is totally new to me and completely unsurprising.
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No.6849
>>6838
>>6840
>>6848
hahahahha wow
hahahha
i'm loling irl
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No.6850
>>6845
I don't make fun of him for being a fat fuck with awful hair and beard, I make fun of him because of his hilarious lack of self-awareness and ludicrous over-estimation of his own intelligence. Being a fat fuck with awful hair and beard is just a bonus.
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No.6851
>>6846
Hey, don't bash XiXiDu. His posts on LessWrong were often insightful, and his Google+ is pretty cool.
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No.6852
>>6851
xixidu has had a superweapon constructed against him by the rationlists
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No.6853
>>6824
Rationalism has always been a self-serving ego trip for Needlessly Big Yud. Hence all the wanking about IQ and so on. He's just a narcissistic megalomaniac.
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No.6854
>>6853
Why do you even use this website?
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No.6855
>>6854
Because I like rationalism per se? It's just Yud I have a problem with, Scott, Gwern et al. are all great and insightful. I think if anything Yudenheim's bizarre antics and self-absorption are a serious PR problem for rationalism in general. "How rational is it really if some bloviating sperg is the face of the movement" (to the extent it's amovement, of course) etc.
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No.6856
(Also: I keep trying to post the screen of Yud's facebook where he asks about reliable weight loss methods and rants about "metabolic disprivilege", but something about my settings won't let me, I guess. Still, it's a good example of how rational he really is when actual reality doesn't flatter his smug face.)
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No.6857
>>6855
Ah, sorry, I misunderstood you, then. Have a nice day.
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No.6858
Many ideas in the sequences are quite good. Yes, the execution could be better. As people have pointed out, the style draws attention to itself rather than the content.
Now, the ideas are important enough that one should try encounter them elsewhere, where the writing is more palatable. Here are some places to read a few ideas from the sequences.
Quantum
The quantum chapter in Aaronson's Quantum Computing since Democritus. You should know some linear algebra (dual spaces, linear independence) and probability before reading this
Basic Stats Thinking
I'm pretty sure Jordan Ellenberg did not chose the title of his book How Not to Be Wrong
Heuristics and Biases
skip the goddamn preface and introduction in Kahneman's Thinking, Fast and Slow [long]
Gilovich et al.'s Heuristics and Biases text [hueg]
Judgment in Managerial Decision Making [long, textbook]
Causality
http://www.michaelnielsen.org/ddi/if-correlation-doesnt-imply-causation-then-what-does/ [medium-longish]
ya boy gwern got chu https://www.gwern.net/Causality
Morgan & Winship's Counterfactuals and Causal Inference: Methods and Principles for Social Research [long, textbook]
Evolution
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php
Any good textbook on evolution will do (Herron & Freeman is popular), I don't know a good concise source right now
Language
allegedly Hayakawa's Language In Thought and Action. Haven't read it yet
Cocks
yer mum
If anyone knows others, please share.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/eik/eliezers_sequences_and_mainstream_academia/?utm_source=cocks
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No.6859
No. Big yud has outgrown himself. We have all grown, that's why his writing looks so unflattering from here.
Despite this, it was useful to us, was it not?
His more recent writing is perfectly cogent and rationality:A-Z certainly had some pretty beautiful chapters in it.
These days he's mostly working on a new sort of wikipedia thing for teaching, and we need him there. The work he's doing is good. It's good and you should stop being an ass to our friend.
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No.6860
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No.6861
>>6860
Here's my attempted translation from Twitter to coherent grammatical sentences.
"As you may know, a 'yandere' is a cute girl who behaves like a stalker. This is an odd combination because the attention of a cute girl is valuable in general, but a yandere gives away her attention as though she is desperate [starving] for a mate. Do billionaire vampires exhibit a roughly equivalent odd combination of desirability and desperation?"
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No.6862
>>6861
So he basically called Peter Thiel a yandere. Neat.
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No.6863
>>6862
Well, Peter Thiel did stop funding MIRI last year, and big yud hates the candidate that Peter got up to endorse at the RNC…
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No.6864
>>6858
Jesus fucking shit, bro, are you trying to get rationalists to actually learn something? If you do that, who'll post on this board?
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No.6865
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No.6866
A century from now, in a post-scarcity future that has abandoned the notion of copyright, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality will be canonized as one of the great works of fanfiction. The fact that the author was also a crackpot who believed in the terrifying dangers of formal AI (long after actual AI researchers had realized the future lay in neural networks) will only be a minor footnote on his wikipedia page. Also, in a sad irony, he will be dead.
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No.6867
>>6863
> Peter Thiel did stop funding MIRI last year
Link?
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No.6868
>he will be dead
He will be frozen in the cryo center, to return to us when the singularity is finally upon us. It will still be 30 years away.
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No.6869
If you like Scott Alexander but dislike Eliezer, consider this.
The same kind people who dislike Eliezer now, will dislike Scott in 5 years. They'll go around asking how anyone can take seriously a guy who does shitty amateur sociology like that weird stuff about "Moloch", and writes shitty Bible fanfiction, not to mention how he's a fascist sympathizer. Also his cultlike fans are incredibly annoying and arrogant, have you seen the comments section on his blog? Also, he seems to be some kind of disciple of that crackpot, Yudkowsky… Why would you want to be associated with that?
You'll still be a fan of Scott's work because you were in on the ground floor. You read him with fresh eyes. You got into it before this cultural immune reaction had formed. But you'll be defensive about it.
This is exactly the position that people who like Eliezer's work are in today. They read Eliezer with fresh eyes back in 2008, saw that his stuff was good, and they still think so, but now they have to be defensive about it.
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No.6870
It's a good thing I got in on the ground floor of /ratanon/, before the societal immune reaction will cloud our perception and prevent us from seeing how good it really is.
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No.6871
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No.6872
>>6870
/ratanon/ peaked at the hanson/alexander futa fanfiction
/ratanon/ used to be so good
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No.6873
>>6869
i read eliezer with fresh eyes way back when and thought he was the shit, but now i at last truly see yvain is the holy one
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No.6874
You say we've developed cultural anti-bodies against him, but I don't recall him trying to start a t-shirt harem in '08.
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No.6875
>>6874
Close enough: >>969
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No.6876
>>6872
Peaked? Peaked, Anon? Let me tell you something. /ratanon/ hasn’t even begun to peak. And when it does peak, you’ll know. Because /ratanon/'s gonna peak so hard that everybody on 8chan’s gonna feel it.
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No.6877
>>6876
We've already surpassed LessWrong in content production.
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No.6878
>>6876
>everybody on 8chan’s gonna feel it.
How do we surreptitiously take control of the rest of 8chan? We're clearly the natural aristocrats of this place. We need to become the illuminati of 8chan.
Boy, I hope this board is unlisted though. Don't let the peasants in.
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No.6879
>>6878
We'll drive them away by virtue of restricted-access IQ memetic technology. They'll never even know they were uninvited.
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No.11581
Okay, let us for once use the unique taboo-spouting advantage of an imageboard in service of rationality. Tell us the specific things you consider EY to be wrong about.
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No.11587
>>11581
poly
moral progress
philosophy
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No.11625
>>11581
not being able to lose weight
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No.11627
>>11581
He's extremely overconfident.
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No.11630
>>6859
is this the next generation of Arbital? the first generation of it didn't exactly impress me.
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No.11632
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No.11708
>>11581
many-worlds theory is the Absolute Truth
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No.11799
>>11587
What wrong things has he said about moral progress?
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No.11804
>>11799
>muh moral progress
WTF is that?
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No.11813
>>11799
Big Yud thinks humanity is getting better at approximating its CEV, the same way the pebble sorters kept getting better at making ever larger piles of pebbles that contain a prime number of pebbles. Therefore democracy, abolition, women's suffrage, and gay "marriage" are all examples of moral progress.
http://web.archive.org/web/20090624010406/http://transhumanistwiki.com/wiki/Coherent_Extrapolated_Volition
http://web.archive.org/web/20180119111724/http://lesswrong.com/lw/sy/sorting_pebbles_into_correct_heaps/
It's stupid, but Whigs gonna Whig.
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No.11822
>>11813
Yeah. Whigs gonna whig. Normies gonna norm.
What the fuck is "moral progress"? What if I define morality as increasing the number of rabbits on this planet and immorality as reducing the amount of rabbits on this planet? In this sense one of the most moral persons on this planet is Alexander Buchanan for accidentally releasing many rabbits in Australia. In this sense I fail to see how modern societies manage to be more moral than pre-lagomorphocide Australia.
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No.11853
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No.11856
>>6869
>and writes shitty Bible fanfiction, not to mention how he's a fascist sympathizer.
?
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No.11857
>>11856
Don't listen, the Bible fanfiction is really good
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No.11858
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No.11866
>>11822
> What if I define morality
In Yudkowsky's understanding, morality is grounded in whatever a conscious being considers moral. This makes morality arbitrary insofar as it would be possible to genetically engineer beings which assign moral significance to the number of rabbits (we /do/ assign moral significance to the number of a different kind of mammal, after all), just as one can imagine an alien race of sentient beings that value prime number pebble heaps. This does not make morality arbitrary for ourselves, since we can't change our mind on what underlying states of the world we find moral (although we can learn new information that changes our evaluation of specific things). Luckily, there is relatively little variation between human beings concerning their moral intuitions, so we can talk about rape and murder being bad in an otherwise uncaring clockwork universe.
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No.11867
>>11866
>we can't change our mind on what underlying states of the world we find moral
Yet. Growth mindset.
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No.11870
Why would somebody want to want something that they don't want?
Is there an argument in favour of your choosing to change your values that doesn't apply just as much to removing your desire to change your values?
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No.11872
>>11866
I think what you in essence said is that morality is theoretically arbitrary while in practice it depends on consensus. Is that right?
Well, there were and are obnoxious barbarian tribes on some weird Pacific island who believe that murdering or raping any non-member is not only non-evil but also righteous. So are you saying that it is reasonable to believe that murder, rape and cannibalism are good ideas if the society you live in believes that?
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No.11873
>>11870
>Why would somebody want to want something that they don't want?
Because humans are not perfect singular coherent Bayesian agents but inscrutable messes of different systems that don't always agree or do things that make any epistemic sense.
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No.11876
>>11872
Rather than consensus, it is better to invoke natural law.
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No.11877
>>11876
Natural Law doesn't exist, if it did we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
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No.11878
>>11877
Would it make a difference if it did?
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No.11886
>>11872
The argument is that morality is a property of the mind evaluating the given matters. Since all human beings have very similar minds (relative to what minds would be "possible" if evolution had gone a different way, or if minds were created by processes different from evolution) we can usually come to a consensus, or imagine coming to a consensus if everyone involved were educated enough on all things to consider.
The ethical intuitions used in the process (on which Yudkowsky effectively grounds morality) are only a weak instrument, and the practices of a society also depend on other influences (e.g. the greater economical value of men in historical societies leading to their higher status in society). I can therefore think it more likely that a pacific islanders, if brought into western society, would accept that arbitrary killing of outsiders is wrong, than a random westerner changing his mind if integrated into the pacific islander's society (ignoring killing done as an act of war to defend the tribe).
So, "would I believe that murder etc. are good ideas (when applied to the right people) if I were brought up in this society"? Yudkowsky says yes, because I would live in a society that does not encourage me to think critically about this, but I would change my mind if given encouragement and contemplation. I would therefore be wrong, and rape, murder are therefore actually immoral (from a human mind perspective).
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No.11887
>>11886
>I would change my mind if given encouragement and contemplation
I think this is more general than you suggest. Given encouragement and contemplation and the right context your opinion can go in either direction, for a lot of things.
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No.11890
>>11877
Natural law describes an emergent property of the laws of the universe, saying it doesn't "exist" is not even wrong.
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No.11891
>>11890
Calling it "law" is not even wrong too then.
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No.11894
>>11891
I don't see why, it has greater prescriptive power than either moral law or human law. As Antiphon wrote, anyone who violates nomos is only punished if caught, but those who violate physis suffer regardless.
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No.12656
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No.12673
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No.12674
>>11894
Who violates physics?
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No.12682
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No.14123
If I owned the cryonics lab that had Eliezer's disgusting brain in storage, I'd destroy his brain.
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No.14126
>>14123
This kind of petty, high time preference thinking is why you won't.
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No.14130
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No.14131
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No.14132
>>14126
>high time preference thinking
?
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No.14137
>>14132
Being a disgusting junkie who prefers to be high all the time.
Or maybe this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preference
which is not incompatible with the former definition.
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No.14150
>>6866
>a crackpot who believed in the terrifying dangers of formal AI (long after actual AI researchers had realized the future lay in neural networks
If anything, neural networks are more dangerous, because they are less well-understood. That "AI researchers had realized the future lay in neural networks" is not a mark against Yud's stance.
Also, Yud wrote his things in ~2008, whereas the realisation that neural networks didn't start in earnest until 2012 with Alex Krizhevksy's great success in the Imagenet competition (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&cites=2071317309766942398).
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No.14151
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