No.6824 [View All]
Seriously, he had some good ideas but his application of them is terrible. His writing style is garbage and he can't say anything without coming across as the world's biggest autist. He's a PR disaster.
Time to leave him behind?
____________________________
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No.6870
It's a good thing I got in on the ground floor of /ratanon/, before the societal immune reaction will cloud our perception and prevent us from seeing how good it really is.
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No.6871
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No.6872
>>6870
/ratanon/ peaked at the hanson/alexander futa fanfiction
/ratanon/ used to be so good
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No.6873
>>6869
i read eliezer with fresh eyes way back when and thought he was the shit, but now i at last truly see yvain is the holy one
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No.6874
You say we've developed cultural anti-bodies against him, but I don't recall him trying to start a t-shirt harem in '08.
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No.6875
>>6874
Close enough: >>969
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No.6876
>>6872
Peaked? Peaked, Anon? Let me tell you something. /ratanon/ hasn’t even begun to peak. And when it does peak, you’ll know. Because /ratanon/'s gonna peak so hard that everybody on 8chan’s gonna feel it.
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No.6877
>>6876
We've already surpassed LessWrong in content production.
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No.6878
>>6876
>everybody on 8chan’s gonna feel it.
How do we surreptitiously take control of the rest of 8chan? We're clearly the natural aristocrats of this place. We need to become the illuminati of 8chan.
Boy, I hope this board is unlisted though. Don't let the peasants in.
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No.6879
>>6878
We'll drive them away by virtue of restricted-access IQ memetic technology. They'll never even know they were uninvited.
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No.11581
Okay, let us for once use the unique taboo-spouting advantage of an imageboard in service of rationality. Tell us the specific things you consider EY to be wrong about.
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No.11587
>>11581
poly
moral progress
philosophy
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No.11625
>>11581
not being able to lose weight
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No.11627
>>11581
He's extremely overconfident.
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No.11630
>>6859
is this the next generation of Arbital? the first generation of it didn't exactly impress me.
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No.11632
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No.11708
>>11581
many-worlds theory is the Absolute Truth
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No.11799
>>11587
What wrong things has he said about moral progress?
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No.11804
>>11799
>muh moral progress
WTF is that?
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No.11813
>>11799
Big Yud thinks humanity is getting better at approximating its CEV, the same way the pebble sorters kept getting better at making ever larger piles of pebbles that contain a prime number of pebbles. Therefore democracy, abolition, women's suffrage, and gay "marriage" are all examples of moral progress.
http://web.archive.org/web/20090624010406/http://transhumanistwiki.com/wiki/Coherent_Extrapolated_Volition
http://web.archive.org/web/20180119111724/http://lesswrong.com/lw/sy/sorting_pebbles_into_correct_heaps/
It's stupid, but Whigs gonna Whig.
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No.11822
>>11813
Yeah. Whigs gonna whig. Normies gonna norm.
What the fuck is "moral progress"? What if I define morality as increasing the number of rabbits on this planet and immorality as reducing the amount of rabbits on this planet? In this sense one of the most moral persons on this planet is Alexander Buchanan for accidentally releasing many rabbits in Australia. In this sense I fail to see how modern societies manage to be more moral than pre-lagomorphocide Australia.
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No.11853
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No.11856
>>6869
>and writes shitty Bible fanfiction, not to mention how he's a fascist sympathizer.
?
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No.11857
>>11856
Don't listen, the Bible fanfiction is really good
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No.11858
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No.11866
>>11822
> What if I define morality
In Yudkowsky's understanding, morality is grounded in whatever a conscious being considers moral. This makes morality arbitrary insofar as it would be possible to genetically engineer beings which assign moral significance to the number of rabbits (we /do/ assign moral significance to the number of a different kind of mammal, after all), just as one can imagine an alien race of sentient beings that value prime number pebble heaps. This does not make morality arbitrary for ourselves, since we can't change our mind on what underlying states of the world we find moral (although we can learn new information that changes our evaluation of specific things). Luckily, there is relatively little variation between human beings concerning their moral intuitions, so we can talk about rape and murder being bad in an otherwise uncaring clockwork universe.
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No.11867
>>11866
>we can't change our mind on what underlying states of the world we find moral
Yet. Growth mindset.
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No.11870
Why would somebody want to want something that they don't want?
Is there an argument in favour of your choosing to change your values that doesn't apply just as much to removing your desire to change your values?
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No.11872
>>11866
I think what you in essence said is that morality is theoretically arbitrary while in practice it depends on consensus. Is that right?
Well, there were and are obnoxious barbarian tribes on some weird Pacific island who believe that murdering or raping any non-member is not only non-evil but also righteous. So are you saying that it is reasonable to believe that murder, rape and cannibalism are good ideas if the society you live in believes that?
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No.11873
>>11870
>Why would somebody want to want something that they don't want?
Because humans are not perfect singular coherent Bayesian agents but inscrutable messes of different systems that don't always agree or do things that make any epistemic sense.
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No.11876
>>11872
Rather than consensus, it is better to invoke natural law.
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No.11877
>>11876
Natural Law doesn't exist, if it did we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
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No.11878
>>11877
Would it make a difference if it did?
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No.11886
>>11872
The argument is that morality is a property of the mind evaluating the given matters. Since all human beings have very similar minds (relative to what minds would be "possible" if evolution had gone a different way, or if minds were created by processes different from evolution) we can usually come to a consensus, or imagine coming to a consensus if everyone involved were educated enough on all things to consider.
The ethical intuitions used in the process (on which Yudkowsky effectively grounds morality) are only a weak instrument, and the practices of a society also depend on other influences (e.g. the greater economical value of men in historical societies leading to their higher status in society). I can therefore think it more likely that a pacific islanders, if brought into western society, would accept that arbitrary killing of outsiders is wrong, than a random westerner changing his mind if integrated into the pacific islander's society (ignoring killing done as an act of war to defend the tribe).
So, "would I believe that murder etc. are good ideas (when applied to the right people) if I were brought up in this society"? Yudkowsky says yes, because I would live in a society that does not encourage me to think critically about this, but I would change my mind if given encouragement and contemplation. I would therefore be wrong, and rape, murder are therefore actually immoral (from a human mind perspective).
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No.11887
>>11886
>I would change my mind if given encouragement and contemplation
I think this is more general than you suggest. Given encouragement and contemplation and the right context your opinion can go in either direction, for a lot of things.
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No.11890
>>11877
Natural law describes an emergent property of the laws of the universe, saying it doesn't "exist" is not even wrong.
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No.11891
>>11890
Calling it "law" is not even wrong too then.
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No.11894
>>11891
I don't see why, it has greater prescriptive power than either moral law or human law. As Antiphon wrote, anyone who violates nomos is only punished if caught, but those who violate physis suffer regardless.
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No.12656
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No.12673
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No.12674
>>11894
Who violates physics?
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No.12682
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No.14123
If I owned the cryonics lab that had Eliezer's disgusting brain in storage, I'd destroy his brain.
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No.14126
>>14123
This kind of petty, high time preference thinking is why you won't.
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No.14130
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No.14131
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No.14132
>>14126
>high time preference thinking
?
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No.14137
>>14132
Being a disgusting junkie who prefers to be high all the time.
Or maybe this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preference
which is not incompatible with the former definition.
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No.14150
>>6866
>a crackpot who believed in the terrifying dangers of formal AI (long after actual AI researchers had realized the future lay in neural networks
If anything, neural networks are more dangerous, because they are less well-understood. That "AI researchers had realized the future lay in neural networks" is not a mark against Yud's stance.
Also, Yud wrote his things in ~2008, whereas the realisation that neural networks didn't start in earnest until 2012 with Alex Krizhevksy's great success in the Imagenet competition (https://scholar.google.com/scholar?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&oe=utf-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&lr&cites=2071317309766942398).
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No.14151
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