/arda/ - Tolkien's Legendarium

>>928

I was under the impression that the map displaying Helcar where Mordor theoretically should be is from the Atlas of Middle Earth originally, so now drawn from Tolkien's notes.

Mind you, this is all just autism. It's not really required that such things be absolute facts. Myths are built on contradiction at times.

>>929

the third map here: >>224

the diagrams here: >>223

and the two maps here: >>222

are from atlas of middle earth. the simple sketch of Arda here >>822 and all of the images here: >>928 are from Tolkien's original notes. The third map represents the time after the fall of the Two Lamps but before the War for the Sake of the Elves (the fall of Utumno), which created the first age beleriand coast line, the Great Gulf, Harad, and the Dark Land.

Posting to revive the thread.

>>1199

you pretty got all the ones I'm aware of OP

What about Burzum?

Oh, didn't know these Gothmog fellows. A lot of Tolkien themed stuff is metal, of which I dislike the vocals.

There's an Italian band named Ainur

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4tLuJ-Q0nQ

Also the Tolkien Ensemble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcGuwi0PCCQ

Also, there's already a thread about this

>>189

If you enter it with mod.php open, even if it's mod powers from any other board, you can visualize and post in it. Once a post is made, the thread's brought back.

>>1161

/thread

but seriously, what you OP just listed is like, literally everything on the subject. Anyone who knows a thing or two about human nature will know that Gondor didn't last forever. Even the 4th Age didn't technically last forever.

>>1170

This.

Ultimately it wouldn't have been the kind of story Tolkien would like, but he also couldn't help think and write about it.

>>1161

I can even feel this just over the passage of LotR. The first book is more fanciful in ways, while the ending or RotK feel mornful even though Sauron has been defeated. The enchantment fades more and passes into the west which is no longer even in Arda anymore.

>>1180

I get what you mean. Even the main characters seem depressed enough about how things turned out that they fuck out of reality. The reward of hobbitdom is to be left alone until they disappear from memoery, Elessar is just well-mannered Conan the Cimmerian instead of Jesus (who's appearance will also be a huge disappointment in the distant sequel the New Testament) and most of the wonders seen during the trip are already fading away when the hobbits get back home.

>>1161

Just like IRL

>>1121

>I'm really glad one of the last great bodies of literature that embodies the Western spirit is being Jewed up

You don't belong here (((friend))).

>>1121

gtfo fag

Nazi racial theory is bollocks and Tolkien knew it, he was mostly just unhappy with the Nazis trying to politicise his work anyway

>>1138

I don't have it anymore, but in another letter he sent to Chris while he was in WWII was about how he thinks that traditionalism will become vilified in the west thanks to the Nazis overdoing it. I don't know how much he understood about the situation then, though. Most brits were pretty much in the dark and only knew Churchill's dramatic posturing.

>>1139

Tolkien's entire deslike of the natsocs waa purely one of decentralization vs centralization of power. Socially he was probably more right wing than them given he was a monarchist and could easily have been called a little Englander.

>>1139

>in another letter he sent to Chris while he was in WWII was about how he thinks that traditionalism will become vilified in the west thanks to the Nazis overdoing it

This would fit in with his criticism of the Nazis in general. I think some of the people who criticism him are too quick to call him a jew lover, etc. simply because he wasn't a NatSoc, when in those days it was simply the Germanic autistic manifestation of fascism/anti-Semtism.

>Most brits were pretty much in the dark and only knew Churchill's dramatic posturing.

Churchill was regarded as a drunk buffoon just blowing air during the 30s. Most Brits didn't care about him at all, much less agree with him. There was no desire for a war, but the autistic nature of NatSoc was alien to the Brits, who have never really gone for that sort of stuff. The dislike of Natsoc isn't really based on the Jews at all, it's mostly to do with that the fact that Brits tend to be more traditionalist rather than whatever the hell NatSoc was LARPing as. No disrespect to the Germans, though, NatSoc was great for them until 1939

Feänor's sin was the classic failing of Creation - that of Pride. His Pride consumed him and predisposed he and his kin to Vanity, as his and his sons' suicide quest for the Jewels would demonstrate time and time again through the closing centuries of the First Age. The eternal lust for the Silmarils consumed the Noldor and dammed their chances of victory in Beleriand as they shunned/warred ally and enemy alike to fulfill their dread Oath.

All roots from Feänor and his Pride. His desire to be the greatest craftsman in all Arda and his lust for his own creation consumed him as assuredly as the Balrog's flame, damming his kin until the End of Days. The Doom was merely a reflection of Morgoth's successful corruption of the Noldo. First willing to take up sword against their race, then willing to take up sword against their own - until naught but two cursed elves remained, burned by the Silmarils for their Pride and what lengths that Pride forced them to go.

The story of Feänor and the Noldor is one of the most inspiring Judeo-Christian indictments against the sin of Pride in the modern era, and all the more that people don't realize how much Feänor's Oath destroyed Arda. Had the Noldor stayed behind and let the Valar handle Morgoth, Telperion and Laurelin would've been restored before the end of the First Age. The Pride of Feänor and his sons, their lust for the Jewels, preempted that until the End.

>>1008

It isn't as simple as just full blown Christian sin of Pride.

To destroy the Jewels as well would be a sin. Tolkien wove in more pagan themes than perhaps even he realized. What was made and what was earthen has value in of itself, and it isn't a simple case of the mortal world being shit by default (because of the marring).

The Silmarils were precious in the same way the Trees were precious, as a unique demonstration of subcreation within the larger creation. Neither had more value than the other. The Valar understood this, that's why they didn't force Fëanor's hand. Aulë especially was empathic towards Fëanor as a fellow subcreator that sometimes skirts the lines of disrespecting creation by not acting within it's bounds.

Sure Fëanor acted rashly and ultimately attacked the Teleri unjustly, but the Valar were not 100% right. More importantly, had Fëanor not done what he did, we would not have seen seen and heard of many beautiful things. Of Gondolin rising on Tumladen, of the hidden halls of Nargothrond, we'd not have seen the love of Beren and Lúthien, the great last stand of Finrod, the bravery of Húrin at the Fens of Serech.

The book itself states this. It's a very pagan thing, the glorification great deeds as having value unto themselves, not necessarily in the grand scheme of things, or if they were successful or not.

>>957

>feanor_as_patton.jpg

I can guarantee you this, and you may thank Eru for it. Twenty ages from now, when you're sitting by the fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks 'what did you do during the great war of the jewels?' You won't have to say 'well, I shoveled shit in Tirion.'

Alright you sons of bitches, now you know how I feel.

>>1044

>the glorification great deeds as having value unto themselves

That's not uniquely pagan

Do you prefer wings or not on your balrogs?

>>945

I always thought that was a silly controversy.

If anything is going to have wings it would be the damn Fallen Ainu from deep beneath the earth.

In the text itself, nothing of the balrog is ever described except that they're dark and full of fire.

Of all the things that nerds can rage about…. I love this one the least.

>>1150

It's a silly debate. It's pretty clear Tolkien chose not to describe them in great detail, just as Sauron is never seen nor described in all of LotR. It's best left up to your imagination.

>>945

I honestly think the wings make them look more imposing. Like a cape.

By the way

>In a letter to me on the subject of my mother, written in the after her death, which was also the year before his own, he wrote of his overwhelming sense of bereavement, and of his wish to have Lúthien inscribed beneath her name on the grave. He returned in that letter, as in that cited on p. 29 of this book, to the origin of the tale of Beren and Lúthien in a small woodland glade filled with hemlock flowers near Roos in Yorkshire, where she danced; and he said: 'But the story has gone crooked, and I am left, and I cannot plead before the inexorable Mandos.'

>You will never have a waifu and muse like Tolkien's that you can actually be with because romance is dead and 3D is PD now.

Why even fucking live.

>>1125

His goddamn hate of cats man. I wonder if he really disliked cats or if it was just a thing of the story.

>>1129

Not sure, I get the impression that the personification of cats in the medieval/ancient mind wasn't too flattering.

>>1130

That depended heavily on the time and the place, and it's safe to say cats were generally well regarded by most of the population. Otherwise they wouldn't have developed such human dependent behaviour models that are compeltely unnecessary for hunting verming but enable manipulating humans for food and shelter.

>>1088

shoo shoo spider

>>1088

Fuck off, SIDF, Gamgee did nothing wrong

Because sure! Monstrous spider, daughter of a creature representing gluttonous hunger. How do we adapt this for "modern" (read shitty Jew brainwashed) times?

MAKE HER A SEXY WOMAN OF COURSE!

>>1088

You're a big spider.

>>1096

4U(ngol)

Mandos handed out punishments, so it's safe to say kinslaying Noldos spend a century or two cooling off in the time-out pen.

>>1042

>time-out pen

Was it a pig pen?

>yfw Jim is secretly Mandos having a laugh.

>namefagging /tg/ retard

>worth any crosspost whining

Delete this thread.

>>1010

>namefagging

that's /monster/'s version of anon, anon

>>1009

That guy doesn't even make any real arguments, other than calling various things "not real", "stupid", "not medieval". Not sure it's worth refuting.

>refute this guy

If I wasn't so autistic, I'd tell you to do it yourself.

But for the first pic, he's right. Tolkien's elves were made in complete opposition to the standard fae folk/fair folk style of elf that was predominant in Anglo-Saxon and Celtic (more so Celtic) mythology of the time, of faeries and elves that'd abduct people, boggart them away and what not. Funnily enough because Tolkien's idea of elves as a sort of superior humanoid race of old got so popular, other authors like Pratchett when back to the originals in a sort of contradiction of mainstream. Of course the fact Tolkien's elves were thus old folk obsessed with the changing of the world and the passage of time, and the preservation of things, is not an indication of being badly written content.

Calling elves stupid isn't an argument. He'd need to say why. Dwarves lift some aspects, predominantly language, from Jews. Tolkien did this because the Hebrew sounding language would stand in opposition to the more Celtic/Finnish elven tongues.

And to say Middle-Earth was inspired by medieval Germany is hardly true. It was rather different things in different areas of middle-earth. Rohan was Anglo-Saxon with horses. The Shire was the countryside of England that a lot of 19th and early 20th century authors edified, Gondor was a sort of Roman esque civilization, and so on so forth.

>>660

well you're in luck. There's bound to be an expansion on that subject in the new book coming out by Christopher Tolkien, the completed Tale of Beren and Lúthien. There's a thread discussing it right now in >>923

>>660

Celegorm was a son of Fëanor. He was doomed from the start because of the Oath.

>>967

Would a true friend (for possibly thousands of years) abandon someone just because the friend was doomed, especially with something as vague as Mandos' prophecy? Mercy for and patience with the wicked but possibly saveable seems like a big theme in Tolkien's work. Any utterance from Huan would have had extra weight for being so rare, so it should have been worth a try.

I don't know, I have this idea that an ideal sapient dog should be honorable to point of an idealized samurai. Disobeing a bad order ending something akin to sudoku and wise lecture. In Huan's case mere talking would have been a sacrfice enough.

>>972

I'm looking forward to finding out if Tolkien thought about this. Last I checked he wasn't much of a dog person though. But Loyalty is a powerful theme in his other works, so we'll see if it crossed his mind at all.

It could be that, being from Valinor and all, Huan was imbued with a higher sense of morality or destiny, but that feels like a bit of a cop-out to me.

>>974

>It could be that, being from Valinor and all, Huan was imbued with a higher sense of morality or destiny

This could very well be it. I'm suprised how strongly I feel about what might be an excuse side plot to inject the dog from paradise to the story of Beren and Luthien.

>>216

Unwearied then were Durin's folk;

Beneath the mountains music woke:

The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,

And at the gates the trumpets rang.

The world is grey, the mountains old,

The forge’s fire is ashen-cold;

No harp is wrung, no hammer falls:

The darkness dwells in Durin’s halls;

The shadow lies upon his tomb

In Moria, in Khazad-dûm.

But still the sunken stars appear

In dark and windless Mirrormere;

There lies his crown in water deep,

Till Durin wakes again from sleep.

>>216

>>217

This is probably one of my favorite Tolkien related pieces.

The stanza that starts with "A king he was on carven throne" is brilliant.

>>218

apparently the "golden roof & silver floor" line was what inspired PJ's team to write the sequence in the second Hobbit film where they try to bury Smaug in molten gold.

And they originally intended for Thranduil to be chasing after the Nauglamir, but that's off-topic.

I don't have the books on-hand.

Does anyone else have some of JRRT's lines to share?

>>950

>golden roof and silver floor

>make the floor gold

You had one job PJ! One job!

>>788

Other people arguably had better ideas than me.

Frank Herbert's idea was that shields could block anything, and lasguns could cut anything and if they interacted it could cause a nuclear explosion, so everybody uses knives because that scares the shit out of them.

As it turns out people do use artillery and cannons and guns in Dune, but because of shields and lasguns they are seen as not terribly useful, because guns mean somebody breaks out a lasgun or a shield, and then you have to worry about a nuclear blast.

The Gor novels' solution was to have an alien overseer race actively monitoring for someone making gunpowder and assassinating them. So the aliens had very advanced tech but no one else did.

I had a few different tricks. The world-building in my stuff has spirits and the spiritual world as an integral component of effective combat. A well-trained swordsman in tune with spirit abilities would be able to demolish a conventional army. To be effective, guns need to be 'runed' or imbued with cosmic concepts, and the most effective ammo is bullets that have spirits within them.

In terms of tech my solution was based on the universes involved (because I had a multiverse with universes in it); every universe had a 'Poltergeist Quotient' which is free-floating spirits that more or less want to spin wheels and get in machines and make them move.

The higher the number of Poltergeists the less machinery you could have, to the point where suits of armor became a potential issue. You could get around this by putting spirits into your armor or machines, but this is a costly process. The extremely high up forces can insert powered armor troops with heavy weaponry just about anywhere, but its still very rare.

If you were Outside of the universes you were in a kind of esoteric abstract universe where swords and guns were representative of weapons in general.

>>138

>Shit-taste normies are ranking GoT above LOTR

Most have read neither books

>>962

I don't know what you mean by "fine", but just a political intrigue story of betrayal etc.. just lowers things down to more of a soap opera in my opinion.

>>401

comfy as fuck

>>401

tolkien art was super comfy tbh

>>442

Why are you disgracing the beloved language of Tolkien by abbreviating like some Haradrim?

>>443

lmao ur 1 funny guy fam tbh

>>423

gateway drugs

It is not a small number of young folks who would never have heard of the books if the films hadn't been published.

And it's just nice to talk about anyway.

Of the Finding of the Ring

As is told in the volume previous to this hound, “Valley of the Trolls”, Dildo Bugger set out one day with a band of demented dwarves and a discredited Rosicrucian named Goodgulf to separate a dragon from his hoard of short-term municipals and convertible debentures. The quest was successful, and the dragon, a prewar basilisk who smelled like a bus, was taken from behind while he was clipping coupons. And yet, though many pointless and annoying deeds were done, this adventure would concern us a good deal less than it does, if that is possible, except for a bit of petty larceny Dildo did along the way to keep his hand in. The party was ambushed in the Mealey Mountains by a roving pack of narcs, and in hurrying to the aid of the embattled dwarves, Dildo somehow lost his sense of direction and ended up in a cave a considerable distance away. Finding himself at the mouth of a tunnel which led rather perceptibly down, Dildo suffered a temporary recurrence of an old inner-ear problem and went rushing along it to the rescue, as he thought, of his friends. After running for some time and finding nothing but more tunnel, he was beginning to feel he had taken a wrong turn somewhere when the passage abruptly ended in a large cavern. When Dildo's eyes became adjusted to the pale light, he found that the grotto was almost filled by a wide, kidney shaped lake where a nasty-looking clown named Goddam paddled noisily about on an old rubber sea horse. He ate raw fish and occasional side orders to travel from the outside world in the form of lost travelers like Dildo, and he greeted Dildo's unexpected entrance into his underground sauna in much the same way as he would the sudden arrival of a Chicken Delight truck. But like anyone with boggie ancestry, Goddam preferred the subtle approach in assaulting creatures over five inches high and weighing more than ten pounds, and consequently he challenged Dildo to a riddle game to gain time. Dildo, who had a sudden attack of amnesia regarding the fact that the dwarves were being made into chutney outside the cave, accepted.

They asked each other countless riddles, such as who played the Cisco Kid and what was Krypton. In the end Dildo won the game. Stumped at last for a riddle to ask, he cried out, as his hand fell on his snub-nosed .38, "What have I got in my pocket?" This Goddam failed tPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

>>892

I imagine the reason why more of these parodies keep showing up is because relatively clever people keep running into over-talkative Tolkien Fantards.

>>941

It's rare that I hear someone talk about Tolkien and not get crucial things wrong.