No.923
Hey so this is coming out June 1st. I assume it's gonna be an expanded version similar to Children of Hurin. I really liked Children of Hurin, the fact that Christopher Lee did an audiobook for it was badass.
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No.924
Is it in prose or in poem? Because if it ain't the lay, it ain't worth it.
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No.925
>>924
No idea, guess we'll just have to see.
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No.930
aww yis
even being a simple romance story, Beren & Luthien was the one tale that had the most surprises and sharp left turns. I always thought it would have made a spectacular video game, but for now I know the living Tolkiens wouldn't accept that.
Also, this will be the first time in canon anyone encounters Sauron face-to-face in print, in third person, by Tolkien himself, unless you count the exceedingly brief version in the Silmarillion.
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No.931
>>930
Sorta on that subject, I thought the dialog between Hurin and Morgoth in CoH was fantastic.
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No.933
>>930
Elf ears aren't that long
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No.935
>>933
Obviously that artist was deceived by self reported statistics.
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No.936
>>933
If we go by the evidence in the works (like half-Elves such as Elrond looking like both Men and Elves) and ignore Tolkien's begrudging acceptance of "elfin" ears in depictions, Elves didn't have pointy ears at all.
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No.937
>>936
I thought they were leaf-shaped.
In the Etymologies (a linguistic manuscript from ca. 1937-8 published posthumously) is stated that "the Quendian ears were more pointed and leaf-shaped than Human."[4][5] In another linguistic manuscript (from ca. 1959-60), the Elvish connection between ears and leaves is again noted: "Amon Lhaw. ¶SLAS-, ear. las, leaf. slasū > Q hlaru, S lhaw."[6][
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No.938
>>937
I am not keen on taking that particular off-hand comment in a letter as proof that Elves had pronouncedly pointy ears when it was never stated in any published text even though other physical characteristics are mentioned. Elven ears propably were, at best, supposed to be pointed in the way human ears can be called pointed. Also, Elves were never distinguished by their ears, even though it would have been an obvious way. Unless Men also had pointed ears.
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No.939
>>933
someone recently pointed out to me that Humpty Dumpty was never described as an egg.
Odd how that works, isn't it?
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No.943
>>939
Yeah I never understood where that egg thing came from. I heard the story a few times as a kid but every time I saw a depiction of it on t.v. or with pictures I'd wonder "Why the fuck is this guy an egg?".
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No.947
>>938
you're not wrong. It crossed my mind several times reading the Silm. Turin and Tuor both, when they grew up, were mistaken for being elves after having grown up and spent so much of their young life living with them. I was used to popular depictions of elves having exceptionally different characteristics than humans, so these two pretty humans were a knot in my imagination. It just goes to show just how far the "standard fantasy setting" has evolved after being born out of Tolkien.
On that note, Beren is a dirt-creased hairy mountain man when he meets Thingol for the first time. That meeting is going to be fun to read.
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No.951
>>947
>It just goes to show just how far the "standard fantasy setting" has evolved after being born out of Tolkien.
Indeed. I can't think of another prominent fantasy setting where the main differences between Elves and Men were purely spiritual. Modern, especially D&D inspired, fantasy is ironically ridiculously materialistic despite its abundance of overt magic and plethora of fake religions. It somewhat misses the point or atleast lacks connection to the roots of the genre.
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No.956
>>951
take a look at the Elder Scrolls series or the elves as they appear in the Pathfinder setting. Someone up there is trying to make them into aliens.
>Modern, especially D&D inspired, fantasy is ironically ridiculously materialistic despite its abundance of overt magic and plethora of fake religions.
This is a phenomenon I would like more people to talk about, but I'm having the hardest damn time putting it into words. The modern world has an undertone to it that despises religion and spirituality of all types. In the Star Wars films, The Force has to be measurable, quantifiable thing or else the nerds seem to lose their minds. In D&D and all the half-imagined fantasy books that it inspired, magic works under very specific rules. Some "writers" these days will tell you that you NEED to author a precise, consistent "magic system" in your work of modern fantasy or else it isn't going to make sense to your readers.
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No.966
>>947
>>951
>>956
Well to be fair, the elfin ears predate Tolkien and they were present in elven depictions even during his time. His elves were always depicted like that in most of not all artwork, even by those that really got it like Alan Lee or Ted Nasmith.
But yeah, people have no spirituality these days. It's the death of morality as an objective thing. Evola speaks about it in Ride the Tiger.
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No.977
>>956
Yeah, I hate those things**midiclorians aren
t even necessary, they're jus a middleman**
What do you think of http://coppermind.net/wiki/Sanderson%27s_Laws_of_Magic
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No.978
>>977
Aw, I messed up my formating
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No.979
>>966
>But yeah, people have no spirituality these days. It's the death of morality as an objective thing.
From how I see it the modernists are correct in a way; morality is subjective and there is no "correct" one, but that depends entirely on the perspective. Maybe that is true from the view independent of the individual. That doesn't mean we can't on our own try to determine the best way to carry on and treat that as objective morality from our individual perspective looking out. The other path is to simply give up and treat all moral systems as equal which is what post-modernism offers us.
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No.980
>>956
Nietzsche was right, in the collapse of the church a lot of people are trying to make science a religion.
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No.981
>>980
Isn't that what he wanted.
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No.982
>>981
No, he was afraid it would happen and that the west would use it as a way to avoid dealing with their ever increasing nihilism problem.
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No.983
>>979
Morality is not subjective. It is an objective truth
Good is good, evil is evil. Funnily enough, the closer you get to old European virtues and morals, the closer you get to an ideal moral compass. But that's probably a coincidence.
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No.1018
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No.1019
>>1018
Yeah, I got my copy. Been reading it before bed only about half-way through. I enjoyed reading about Tevildo and his evil cat kingdom
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No.1020
>>1019
Is it any good in prose? Any bits entirely in poem to reference the lay of leithian?
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No.1021
>>1020
There's about 120 pages extracted from the Lay of Leithian, good stuff though from what I gather there's nothing that hasn't been in the History of Middle Earth which I haven't read.
>In Tavros' friths and pastures green
>had Huan once a young whelp been.
>He grew the swiftest of the swift
>and Oromë gave him as a gift
>to Celegorm, who loved to follow
>the great god's horn o'er hill and hollow.
>Alone of hounds of the Land of Light
>when sons of Fëanor took to flight
>and came into the North, he stayed
>beside his master. Every raid
>and every foray wild he shared,
>and into mortal battle dared.
>Often he saved his Gnomish lord
>from Orc and wolf and leaping sword.
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No.1022
>>1020
I might add, the book isn't one cohesive story like Children of Hurin. It's a series of extracts from different versions showing the evolution of the story.
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No.1024
>>1022
That sounds lazy. Chris is giving credence to the claim that he is publishing his father's waste paper bin.
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No.1034
Article about the book coming out: https://newrepublic.com/article/143319/jrr-tolkiens-love-story
It will be Christopher Tolkien's last.
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No.1035
>>1034
…damn. I doubt any of Tolkien's other relatives will go into publishing his work, so this might as well be the last of Tolkien's writing we ever get published.
I suppose it makes sense, what with Beren and Lúthien being based on Tolkien and his wife.
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No.1046
It's a good compilation of all the different versions of the story as well as a summary of the history behind the story. Probably the most interesting for those who don't own the history of middle earth books or just want it all in one package. IMO it's worth buying for the gorgeous pictures of Allan Lee alone; he and Nasmith are my favourite Tolkien artists.
Am I the only one who thinks it's romantic as fuck that Tolkien based Luthien on his wife and that the names Beren and Luthien are engraved on their gravestones?
TFW you will never have a waifu who loves you so much that she pleads to the merciless god of death himself to release you back into life and who'll give up her immortality just to be with you goddamnit
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No.1047
>>1046
Lúthien is top tier waifu. She's literally the perfect representation of the Celtic ideal of beauty. Pale, tall, star like eyes and dark raven hair. Fae qualities, a glow and gracefulness to her as she dances bare foot in an open meadow upon the coming of spring.
Tolkien was great at idolizing pagan imagery.
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No.1052
>>1047
>>1046
Let me add, that by far the most moving part of the Silmarillion, for me, was her song to Mandos. After reading the whole story of the making of the world up to that point, Mandos barely speaks, but always with great weight, coolness, and significance. He spends the whole book exemplifying the dread spirit of prophecy and death, merciless and uncannily calm, the one vala who knows the full story of Arda.
And for all that, when Luthien finally sings her sad song about the fates of elves and men, the children of Ilúvatar, lost and alone and clinging only to each other in the wake of the world's darkness, Mandos himself actually breaks down crying, and begs on her behalf to Manwë that she be allowed to be with her love, again.
Through that character, I found that story unbelievably moving.
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No.1054
>>1047
>fell for the first ample adan member see ever saw
>waifu material at all
King of Elflands' daughters are always huge sluts.
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No.1058
>>1054
Love at first sight, fated to be, etc, etc. It's a very old school kind of story, and mirrors how Tolkien himself thought about his marriage.
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No.1059
>>1058
Oh, but the endemic tendency of elven maidens to fall in love with the first foreign thing they saw is acknowledged in universe with Elrond keeping his daughter locked tight until it was the right time to use her in the scheme to put Elrond's grandson on the throne of his brother.
Imagine if Arwen had wandered around Imladris and fallen in love with one of the earlier dunedain chieftains and they both had died of old age before the opportune political situation of War of The Ring had formed.
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No.1063
>>1047
>fae qualities
She's an elf, so I would think so
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No.1074
>>1063
Hey Fae-ness is from her maiar blood.
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No.1112
Reading the book now
Someone make a macro out of
>Wherefore this surliness Karkaras
Top tier bants from Lúthien.
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No.1124
Finish the thing. It's great. Kind of miffed it doesn't have the full poem that Tolkien wrote, missing a few cantos, which is aggravated by the fact that it includes bits from Eärendil and Elwing's story which to me was unneeded. Would rather have had those bits not included from the poem. I guess the reason Christopher did this is because the book has both versions of the story, the first form from Book of Lost Tales (which is ridiculous but hilarious with shit like evil cats and bits like "Wherefore this surliness"), and the full poem as it took form later, although it doesn't mention Sauron since it was before Lord of the Rings. Instead the guy in Tol Sirion is named Thû. I guess he wanted to avoid repeating that early bit too much, or maybe he kept only the initial meeting of Beren and Lúthien since that was most close to how his dad envisioned it. Either way, I wanted muh full poem.
But overall it's good. Alan Smith's illustrations are top tier, it's a nice solid hardcover so it should last ages.
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No.1125
>>1124
I finished it too. I really enjoyed Tolkien's earlier visions of Doriath being a much more enchanted and secret realm that was sort of like the "fairy land" that men mind find trying to escape the wastes of Morgoth. I also really liked the more fanciful portrayals and descriptions that you could tell Tolkien made to captivate the imaginations of children. Tevildo especially was fun and his descriptions of the cats lounging and basking in the sun in this castle in the middle of a forest was very enchanting.
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No.1128
By the way
>In a letter to me on the subject of my mother, written in the after her death, which was also the year before his own, he wrote of his overwhelming sense of bereavement, and of his wish to have Lúthien inscribed beneath her name on the grave. He returned in that letter, as in that cited on p. 29 of this book, to the origin of the tale of Beren and Lúthien in a small woodland glade filled with hemlock flowers near Roos in Yorkshire, where she danced; and he said: 'But the story has gone crooked, and I am left, and I cannot plead before the inexorable Mandos.'
>You will never have a waifu and muse like Tolkien's that you can actually be with because romance is dead and 3D is PD now.
Why even fucking live.
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No.1129
>>1125
His goddamn hate of cats man. I wonder if he really disliked cats or if it was just a thing of the story.
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No.1130
>>1129
Not sure, I get the impression that the personification of cats in the medieval/ancient mind wasn't too flattering.
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No.1131
>>1130
That depended heavily on the time and the place, and it's safe to say cats were generally well regarded by most of the population. Otherwise they wouldn't have developed such human dependent behaviour models that are compeltely unnecessary for hunting verming but enable manipulating humans for food and shelter.
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