/fringe/ - Fringe

>>135510

What you're asking for doesn't exist. That's why the occult field is almost entirely filled with LARPers who've got nothing to show for themselves. That's why nobody can show so much as a video of themselves bending a spoon with their mind, let alone do anything serious. That's why researchers have found nothing conclusive despite extensive parapsychological research.

You could try something like astral projection, but if when out of body you find that you can't actually tangibly effect the physical world (which is the position virtually all people find themselves in), then can you be said to be doing little more than dreaming?

If there's some sort of trick or procedure that allows you to unlock genuine magic abilities it seems almost nobody knows it (although many will pretend they do -but ask for a demonstration of their abilities and watch them flounder).

>>135513

The mountain is closed for the moment for the Covid thing, but before that they took 10 non-Orthodox a day. That is according to this former-Protestant who made a visit before he became Orthodox. Vid related.

>There's a lot of holy elders in monasteries outside of Athos

You are right, at least on Athos they are concentrated in one place. Sometimes you do have to ask around for a while to find them. Roosh V was able to meet Elder Ephraim of Arizona before the elder's repose. His encounter of the Elder is pretty awesome. He was blown away. Here is the link

https://youtu.be/zvqeJK9zK1c

>>135510

>evoke poltergeist

That sounds spooky, anon! Unless you're used to working with spirits, I wouldn't suggest trying this in the comfort of your own home. If you want to have scary fun with ghosts, don't invite them to your house, you should go to them. Go to a graveyard in the middle of the night with a basic cassette recorder. Walk around and talk to the dead. Once the paranoia kicks in and you feel like you're not alone, keep talking for another hour or so. Ask the spirits not to follow you when you leave and be sure to thank them and tell them goodnight. You should always be polite and respectful. Then go home and listen for EVP's on your recording. Bricks will be shat if you're lucky.

>>135526

Are you cradle Orthodox? It almost appears as if you have grown up outside of it. Monastery's have always been centers to charge one's spiritual batteries. There have been a lot of people that have gone to Mount Athos to break out of the materialist conditioning. If you are practicing Orthodox you should talk with your spiritual father as well and see what suggestions he has for you.

>>135526

>I am open to the idea of having a poltergeist sent my way

They do what they like, because they are, you know, ghosts, but getting to your location may be tricky. One already volunteered. Not a demon, just a regular ghost. Going by the one I have at my place they like knocking on walls and hiding stuff to be funny.

>>135523

That's great news! Right now, only Orthodoxy can save the West, and only in the West's failures can Orthodoxy find its own creeping errors and stagnation.

>>135526

There's reason's very simple, an encounter with a saint is pretty much a miracle in itself. Whether you're called by name and addressed about problems you never mentioned to anyone in your life, or you see the uncreated light of God, there won't be a metarialist bone left in your body.

Since you're on /fringe/, chances are you're interested in magic and the occult, but I've always held that being a good Christian comes before and supersedes any sort of occult knowledge and skill. You don't need to know how to do magic to help someone, when a prayer alters reality at its very core.

>>135521

>What you're asking for doesn't exist. That's why the occult field is almost entirely filled with LARPers who've got nothing to show for themselves.

William Walker Atkinson was a very successful occultist who did well in everything he applied himself to.

>That's why nobody can show so much as a video of themselves bending a spoon with their mind, let alone do anything serious.

Youtube is full of videos of people demonstrating various occult phenomena. The only problem with it all is you can just say "it's fake" (video editing) or "it's deception" (sleight of hand and other such trickery).

>That's why researchers have found nothing conclusive despite extensive parapsychological research.

Lots of researchers have come to very definite conclusions in favor of parapsychological phenomena being legitimate.

>You could try something like astral projection, but if when out of body you find that you can't actually tangibly effect the physical world (which is the position virtually all people find themselves in), then can you be said to be doing little more than dreaming?

Ever heard of remote viewing? You can observe things at a distance then check on the site you observed to see you viewed things accurately.

>If there's some sort of trick or procedure that allows you to unlock genuine magic abilities it seems almost nobody knows it (although many will pretend they do -but ask for a demonstration of their abilities and watch them flounder).

It's a matter of the cultivation of the nerves so you don't waste so much of your life energy, a balanced development, a clean mind, concentration, and intense desire.

I hope you realize Fedoramancy is its own art btw. Thoughts influence reality in degree of the intensity behind the thought. A devout fedoramancer is like the anti-mage character in Dota 2 and can prevent any and all magick from manifesting around him by the strength of his convictions. To say the least; this produces unfavorable conditions for people to produce occult phenomena especially when it is so hard to do even under ideal conditions. Furthermore those who have attained a level of development where they can easily prove their powers have already likely demonstrated their powers to a fair number of persons and tired of demonstrating for the legions more that still live in denial and are much more concerned about their further cultivation and the use of their powers towards nobler ends then merely trying to change the mind of a skeptic who likely will still reserve doubts even after a clear demonstration of their power.

Also something about the scientific testing done on occult powers that sucks is they expect people to perform these tests literally thousands of times when decreasing interest in the task at hand makes it harder to get results. Like with those card tests they found out if they used really bland cars they get less results than cards that have powerful symbols on them that stir the emotions of the minds of the participants. It's like the difference between cards that have tits on them vs cards that have just stars on them. Fascination/interest has to be maintained to manifest occult phenomena.

>>135528

And this is really curious now. This ghost is welcome to stay with me for a while to have some fun if he or she promises to keep the scares focused on me only.

Is there anything I can do to assist this ghost in finding its way to me? Or to open a line of communication to it. Let me know any names or details that might be relevant! I'll leave a candle on my window tonight if it might help guide the spirit.

>>135533

You should look into returning back to the faith. Its spiritual depth is endless. You will probably then run into those with first hand experiences. You could even ask your family. I have not been to visit a holy elder, but my spiritual father has talked about some of his experiences. When I finish my studies and save up money I will visit Athos. Watch this documentary here >>135292 which interviews the author of this book >>134851 (in the pic) about St. Paisios who only reposed in 1994. Also read about St. Porphyrios who reposed in 1991 and who St. Paisios referred to as a "spiritual television." What is even hard to believe is that these spiritual giants would talk about even greater saints in the flesh that live on Athos anonymously.

>>135536

Adding to this about St. Porphyrios.

>More followed. His sensitivity to things around him became very acute and his human capacities developed to their fullest. He listened to and recognized bird and animal voices to the extent that he knew not just where they came from, but what they were saying. His sense of smell was developed to such a degree that he could recognize fragrances at a great distance. He knew the different types of aroma and their makeup. After humble prayer he was able to "see" the depths of the earth and the far reaches of space. He could see through water and through rock formations. He could see petroleum deposits, radioactivity, ancient and buried monuments, hidden graves, crevices in the depths of the earth, subterranean springs, lost icons, scenes of events that had taken place centuries before, prayers that had been lifted up in the past, good and evil spirits, the human soul itself, just about everything. He tasted the quality of water in the depths of the earth. He would question the rocks and they would tell him about the spiritual struggles of ascetics who went before him. He looked at people and was able to heal. He touched people and he made them well. He prayed and his prayer became reality. However, he never knowingly tried to use these gifts from God to benefit himself. He never asked for his own ailments to be healed. He never tried to get personal gain from the knowledge extended to him by divine grace.

http://orthochristian.com/66300.html

>>135534

>I'll leave a candle on my window tonight if it might help guide the spirit.

I guess that will work. Try practicing automatic writing late at night after some meditation (emptying of your mind) and see if you get any results.

If you're new to it, it means holding a pen and inviting the entity to control your hand to write something. If you are good at opening up you can have a lot of fun with this, they like stuff like this. If you have any wine at home, drinking some and inviting them to taste it may also work, you're then essentially letting them taste what you taste, which is a way to create a connection in a controlled and harmless way.

>>135530

WWA was hack and the early 20th century equivalent of new age bloggers.

YouTube is filled with kids waving their hands in front of candles and wonky pieces of paper and then pretending they're doing psychokinesis. In all my years on the internet the only footage I've seen that comes even close to being half legitimate is the John Chang/Mo-pai stuff.

Parapsychological research is "inconclusive" at best and that's phrasing it generously.

Remote viewing is typical bullshit occultism that's ripe for delusion and borders on cold reading except using visualization. Go to some place astrally and knock over a vase physically, and then we'll talk.

>It's a matter of the cultivation of the nerves so you don't waste so much of your life energy, a balanced development, a clean mind, concentration, and intense desire.

Typical self delusion, all these things are internal and have no external verification. If you go the gym, you either get stronger or you don't. If you're an occultist, you can delude yourself into thinking you're 'cultivating your nerves' with nothing reining you in. These things aren't even magical; concentration? I'd wager a lawyer or engineer has a more developed faculty of concentration than some guy posting on an internet forum pretending to be a wizard (and if he doesn't, goes to show you how useful that supposed concentration is).

As for the last two paragraphs, typical nonsense. I'm not even going to humour it, it's just the same old excuses like always. In the time it took you to write that you could have recorded a 30 second video of you lighting a candle or bending a spoon with your mind, or anything at all. You could literally record a 30 second video displaying some (tangible) magical ability and humiliatingly BTFO me and conclusively show this something more than just playing pretend. So what gives?

>>135558

>The most satisfying part of this experience was that it came with a mental shift

This may not be what you are looking for in the short run but you can experience things like this during qi gong or yoga, although it may take a long time to get there. In my experience qi gong gives immidiate effects but may not reach as far. Yoga has a much higher learning curve but if you do manage to go beyond the regular sports yoga often seen today, you can start nudging these states after a fairly short time, while in full control of the experience, being able to move gradually into the state you want to be. It took for me 15 months of practice (5-6 days a week) which is pretty fast compared to reaching any control within qi gong practice.

It's up to your personal preference though, it may not be this way for others.

>>135559

>In all my years on the internet the only footage I've seen that comes even close to being half legitimate is the John Chang/Mo-pai stuff.

And it didn't occur to you that maybe there is something in these Eastern paths that discourage showing off?

>Remote viewing is typical bullshit occultism that's ripe for delusion and borders on cold reading except using visualization. Go to some place astrally and knock over a vase physically, and then we'll talk.

"Remote viewing" is an autistic, cumbersome approach to extrasensory perception and that's only as good as the development of your senses. You're essentially asking someone who has a bow to snipe down the apple on one's head. It's not "impossible" but I doubt many have a reached a level where they confidentally achieve immediate and direct results of what you're asking. This is why nobody bothers to record and you're being told to study yourself. If you see for yourself your perception changes. All it takes is an open mind.

>>135559

>WWA was hack and the early 20th century equivalent of new age bloggers.

Yeah yeah. Fact is he attained success in everything he did and wasn't a fat smoking loser like Franz Bardon. His understanding of religions was exceptional, his books were more successful, his careers were more successful. He by every metric was a success and the kind of person I'd want to model my life off of.

>YouTube is filled with kids waving their hands in front of candles and wonky pieces of paper and then pretending they're doing psychokinesis.

Don't know what you've been viewing but I've mostly seen an older audience and doing stuff that doesn't involve cards or papers.

>Parapsychological research is "inconclusive" at best and that's phrasing it generously.

Depends what papers you are reading.

>Remote viewing is typical bullshit occultism that's ripe for delusion and borders on cold reading except using visualization. Go to some place astrally and knock over a vase physically, and then we'll talk.

If you're able to clearly describe what was going on in a given area at a given time that you've never seen before that's amazing. If you're able to do it with a few distortions of random other shit showing up in the scene that's still amazing. Fact is a lot of remote viewers get exceptionally detailed and accurate results.

>Typical self delusion, all these things are internal and have no external verification.

When your mind is becoming more clear and you're creating detailed thoughtforms and performing amazing calculations and so on that you couldn't do before that is a clear sign of progress. When occultism is all about the power of the mind of course you need to strengthen your mind.

>If you go the gym, you either get stronger or you don't. If you're an occultist, you can delude yourself into thinking you're 'cultivating your nerves' with nothing reining you in.

If you want absolutely objective measurement use a biofeedback device.

>>135559

>These things aren't even magical; concentration? I'd wager a lawyer or engineer has a more developed faculty of concentration than some guy posting on an internet forum pretending to be a wizard (and if he doesn't, goes to show you how useful that supposed concentration is).

We're all subject to natural law which includes the mental laws. William Walker Atkinson was a lawyer. In the Vedic traditions it talks about how people in different professions like a simple housewife can unlock siddhis. Concentration is a faculty of the mind and the mind is the tool used to influence reality. If magic means something beyond the mind to you, then your working on paradigm that has nothing to do with the many magical traditions found throughout all the religions and all the ages.

>As for the last two paragraphs, typical nonsense. I'm not even going to humour it, it's just the same old excuses like always. In the time it took you to write that you could have recorded a 30 second video of you lighting a candle or bending a spoon with your mind, or anything at all. You could literally record a 30 second video displaying some (tangible) magical ability and humiliatingly BTFO me and conclusively show this something more than just playing pretend. So what gives?

You'll just say the candle was blown out and obviously if we put it under an airtight dome it's going to go out. If I put a simple candle not lit under a dome and it moves you'll say a magnet was used and there's metal inside the candle. As for spoon bending we all know that can be faked and you'll say the usual methods in faking it were involved. You're also pretending like those 30 seconds won't take hours of preparation and exhaust you to the point you don't want to do anything else for the next couple days. You know when the Russians pushed this one telekinetic woman very hard to keep demonstrating her powers she ended up dying from it all. The same power you use to move your muscles or form your thoughts is required a hundred fold to move some objects just a little, usually telepathy and telekinesis only occurs in life or death scenarios where someone puts every last bit of their vitality into the effort, like when someone is lost in the wilderness and has no way to contact help so desperately uses the full power of their mind to try and mentally get in contact with someone for help. Furthermore even if we could think of some satisfactory set-up to demonstrate psychic abilities if nothing else you'll just fall back on "this video was edited, it's fake". It's pretty much impossible to prove anything by video.

Also you admit John Chang and Mo Pai already constitute acceptable proof to you. So why are you wasting people's time demanding they perform for you just so you can most likely go and dismiss what they do?

You give me the impression that you expect some weird incantations or peculiar Eastern practices you don't understand to give you magickal power when in reality no matter what tradition you are in it all functions on the same basic laws of nature/mind and if you only understood the principles that is all you would actually need to know and you could stop getting confused by the wrappings.

Something you should note about the initiation rituals of old is they often involve stuff like literally drowning (some form of dying to self), as well as parts of sensory deprivation for days and being in the darkness (building up the nervous energy), and also practices that intend to use both hemispheres of the mind like ambidexterity (synchronization of the brain). None of this is an accident. They're all designed to activate and bring into use parts of the mind needed for psychic abilities to be utilized.

>>135562

It took me a couple of months of energy work, which is the closest western analogue to qigong, to alter my mental state at will, and expand my perceptions in any direction. That being said, I was intuitively doing mental stuff like this since long before I learnt about magic, so maybe it does take a few years if starting from zero.

>>135563

"I'm too enlightened to demonstrate my abilities" is the oldest excuse in the bullshit occultism book; I'm afraid it won't do.

>It's not "impossible" but I doubt many have a reached a level where they confidentally achieve immediate and direct results of what you're asking.

Yes, so you're admitting everybody is just a delusional LARPer. and nobody can actually demonstrate anything tangible, external and verifiable.

>This is why nobody bothers to record and you're being told to study yourself.

Nobody bothers to record, because nobody has these abilities. Being told to study for yourself is another typical excuse. If somebody claims they can deadlift 400lbs and then gets asked for proof, they don't say 'exercise for yourself' they upload a YouTube video. And if they don't nobody takes them seriously.

>>135564

>>135566

>>135565

All I'm seeing is the standard excuses, it's not even worth responding to. If you can be bothered to type up a whole essay, you can be bothered to make a 30 second video and it would absolutely, conclusively, humiliatingly blow me the fuck out and make me look like a complete fool and instantly end this whole discussion -so again, what gives? Pre-emptively claiming I would somehow be dismissive of it no matter what is a poor excuse.

You kids need to stop lying to yourself. This board reminds me of psipog from back in the day; same fervent, juvenile, fantastical thinking. At least those people grew out of it.

>>135574

You're not entitled to a demonstration. This board is not for convincing skeptics, it's for people who practice magic. Have you tried doing any rituals or occult meditations yourself? Have you read any books or studies on parapsychology?

>>135575

You're casting pearls before swine. If a person chooses to be ignorant, it is their right to be so. It's best to leave fedora anon to his presuppositions and delusions, if those make his existence more bearable to any extent.

>>135589

Have you experimented much with meditations designed to manifest material results?

>>135590

I haven't really.

Whenever I ask myself "If I could have anything I want, what would I manifest?", I always end up realizing that I would rather choose to do nothing and allow the world to be the doer.

Most of my meditation has been in search of what is true/how reality is.

Though your video looks interesting, I'll check it out.

There is nothing you can experience somatically to break your agnosis. Materialism says everything is material, but consciousness is immaterial, abstraction is immaterial.

Look up retroduction and start to apply logic to everything you believe, see where that gets you.

>>135546

I would like to visit Romania one day as well. The spiritual father of my spiritual father was the late Fr Roman Braga who suffered almost 11 years in the Pitesti gulag. Fr Roman Braga is in this documentary. Vid related.

>>135554

Get an icon for your saint and a vigil lamp and read their akathist or sing their troparion hymn in front of the icon.

>>135510

There are the CIA docs

>>135589

>taste tea I made through myself after leaving candles burning next to soft music by an open window in the middle of the night. I have not yet been able to perceive another presence distinct from myself so far, internally, or externally. Not to say that such a presence isn't here, but that my ability to perceive it is possibly too limited so far. Though it may be nonsense, I want to say that the name "Taylor" may be relevant to this spirit. Perhaps this anon can confirm or deny this name as it keeps popping up in my head.

I get the feeling it is from them, and that they are comfortable with your reception of them. The name may be a play with words, also being "tailor" as in "the one who will help you open up to the spirit world", to tailor you.

Stay aware of any unusual ideas or feelings, which may be coming from them. The main issue for most people is that they internalize any spirit communication, thinking it was their own thoughts.

Once you break through this wall you will likely find that many of your ideas were never your own.

>Yoga is extremely promising. I have had some very illuminating internal experiences via meditation. Though it's true that I'm seeking something a bit more explicitly supernatural, I have had reality expanding experiences relating to yoga. During meditation

I've never put any focus on meditation in yoga apart from the dead man's stance. What I mean by practicing yoga is to spend 1-2 hours daily going through a wide range of stances to gain control of mind and body, release tensions and strengthen muscles rarely used in daily life. This is a roundabout way of doing it but once your obstacles get less with time the rest becomes easy.

Regular physical exercise also helps to a degree.

>>135521

mk ultra

the men who stare at goats based on real events.

they know this shit is real

they try to use it

but it uses them

Consider this deviled avocados, I suppose.

The main problem with this is the fact that it only seems to work with "belief", and if you don't believe that makes it all go away. That's not how the world works and is antithetical to science. Even something like LSD, for example, if taken by someone that "believes" LSD has no effect will still produce results. It doesn't stop working on nonbelievers, unlike this magic stuff. There's a quotation about that, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away". That goes against this magic stuff. What say you, wizard folk? Do you have some technique that will produce results no matter what, even if the operator doesn't believe in it? Or is it all just self-delusion?

>inb4 it's predicated on belief

And as I just explained therein lies the rub. Perhaps one (myself, for example) could choose to believe in it for the sake of experimenting and convince himself enough to perform it. But in such a case it would have to produce results that are practically indisputable in their nature, such as explicit poltergeist phenomena upon summoning something or tested clairvoyance. How do you go about doing that, then?

>>135640

see

>>135590

Here is a good experiment:

Sit down in a comfortable position and relax as much as possible. It's optimal for you to start seeing hypnogogia, but this is not necessary. Now spend some time feeling your entire body, the motion that it makes as it lives. Feel it breathing, feel every cell in your body breathing.

Now imagine that your body is becoming engulfed in a cold, black energy or darkness. The most important thing is to feel it but you can also see it in your mind's eye as it grows more intense. Try either 'sucking' it in from outside or feel it grow up from inside you, whatever's easier. Continue making this more and more intense until it's crystal-clear. Feel it embed itself into your body so that it will stay even when you're not imagining it. It doesn't matter if you believe it or not, just feel it.

Do this for at least 10 minutes a day but if you're really serious do it 30 minutes to an hour a day. See whether not this affects your life at all. Does it just effect your internal processes like your mood or are you seeing changes in external factors as well, things that cannot just be explained by placebo or psychosomatics?

>>135641

That's not a nice thing to do, anon, even if the fedora kinda asked for it.

>>135642

I've also gotten into magic pretty much the same way. I looked up a spell to summon food in derision, to accentuate a joke I was making on someone else's expense, and then I realized people were actually serious about magic. At that point, I had to investigate, since I couldn't rule out that magic might actually be a thing, with absolute certainty. I found rituals to be ridiculous, of course, but energy work and psionics at least had some basis in science, fringe or not. I just followed the instructions for making a basic energy ball, and from that point, I had no doubt about psychic phenomena. After learning more about metaphysics and the nature of the universe, I started to understand rituals as well, though I still find modern "witchcraft" to be a dead-end feel-good comedy show run by inept land whales.

>>135642

You would find that you can discard a lot more than reality if you're really set out to denying everything.

>>135656

It depends on the execution and personal interpretation of the symbol being invoked but it will most likely make you depressed and/or cause bad luck.

>>135656

>>135666

The chaote is right, but has committed an even bigger issue. Doing these sorts of invocations and elemental breathing techniques isn't for undeveloped beginners.

If you haven't built up your constitution, and have a good knowledge of your own inner workings, you can fuck yourself up mentally and/or emotionally.

And then for the triple-whammy, he hasn't included the expiration, or banishment, which means that whatever element or symbol was invoked, will remain invoked and unbalance the individual potentially for the rest of their lives.

So, our friendly chaote: 1. Tells a fedora to build up massive amounts of differential chaos until he starts having psychotic breakdowns and seeing shit, 2. doesn't mention the requirements for this stuff, and the severe consequences of not meeting them, and 3. abandons the fedora in the shadow realm for the rest of his life.

So, just a chaote being a chaote. The best part is that the fedora, having read this, will now most likely try to prove it to be bullshit, and do it anyway.

>>135656

What is it? Trees?

>>135672

This is the hardest thing about trying to get to grips with this stuff, it seems like there's so many stumbling blocks and people trying to trip you up at every turn… I recently bought a copy of Oberon Zell's Grimoire For The Apprentice Wizard, I'm hoping it will help me learn the foundations without fucking me up too bad.

>>135673

If you look at it for long enough relaxing the focus of your eyes, once you sync up your left and right brain a 3D image will pop out at you. Without spoiling too much for you this image contains a 3D two legged figure.

>>135682

>I also just saw a glowing shape near the edge of my vision

They tend to do things like this. There is no need manifesting with physical light/shape if they can get away with manipulating your perception of reality, it's less energy consuming. This is also supposed to be a poltergeist. There seemed to be a group of them conveniently showing themselves as you started this thread, I invited one other of them to my place. Compared to previous ones, this one is pretty active. Making sounds in the kitchen when I'm in the next room, banging on radiators, flipping pages in my piano course book… Yeah it's just the wind, and things fell and caused sounds. But if you mentally accept that this sudden increase in unrelated weirdness may have a specific source, reality changes.