6cf048 No.1478
Quick disclaimer: In all my years of browsing imageboards, this is the first time I've ever actually created a thread. Though this is technically related to lucid dreaming, it seems in-depth and different enough to warrant its own thread. My apologies if this is not the case.
I've had this idea for awhile, and now that /fringe/ appears to be back, after all, I was wondering what fellow anons thought about it:
>Use lucid dreaming to create incrementally more-and-more vivid scenarios, always populating the same "place" with increasing levels of detail and sophistication
In other words, create a memory palace, but instead of just using it to remember things, create your own ideal paradise.
>Ceaselessly return there every time you lucid dream, ultimately making it so real you can taste, smell, see, feel, and hear things semi-emergently
In other words, use lucid dreaming to create the basic laws of your universe, and ultimately said universe will act autonomously, though always in accordance with your Will.
>In so doing, all others whom you create to populate your realm will essentially be highly-sophisticated tulpas, yet they cannot enter into the material plane, and do not communicate with you outside of your lucid dreams
This makes sense because they only came into being by means of your dreams, and were consciously willed into existence by this very method. In other words, they exist in a part of your subconscious, but only really actualize in your particular corner of the astral realm. They cannot penetrate into this plane. Or can they?
>Eventually, this realm will become so sophisticated that, upon death, your soul will be able to transmigrate there for the rest of time.
In other words, you can sort of create a self-indulgent form of Pure Land, a pocket universe which becomes immortal and everlasting through sheer force of Will. This makes sense due to the immortality of one's mind; if one can indeed imprint one's will upon the astral realm, (Can one?) it follows that one can do everything I just described.
Thoughts? I'm still fairly new to esoteric theory and practice (mainly due to a rather busy schedule), and currently know very little about astral travel, tulpas, and even lucid dreaming, particularly in a practical sense. If anything in this idea seems particularly dangerous or impractical, please don't hesitate to tell me.
Alternatively, if this is a potentially-fruitful topic, please give your thoughts on how I might improve it.
____________________________
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1d9b66 No.1482
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9d39d0 No.1483
>>1478
Incorporeal afterlife has been compared very closely with the dream state by quite a few occult masters, and your post-mortem experience is largely a product of your waking and dreaming mental hygiene. Visiting the same astral pocket every night, and keeping lucidity throughout, would probably result in you returning there after death, at least initially, as well as having full awareness and sapience of your own deceased state, unlike the vast majority of people.
Honestly just keeping lucidity day and night would be enough to "free" you in the afterlife, creating an astral pocket like that is optional and superfluous, you could very easily do it after death as well. The first step towards this, of course, is staying lucid in your waking life, which is extremely hard to maintain for any length of time. Building a habit of establishing lucidity periodically during the day will result in you instinctively doing the same while dreaming.
This thread is already too high-quality, so here's some modernist bs to water it down.
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f4401e No.1487
>>1478
Thank you for a quality thread.
And you are correct. But you should include imagining a body for yourself, too.
>>1483
I don’t remember where I read that one should strive to be so lucid in waking and sleeping, that he would go to sleep and wake up in the morning without losing lucidity at all, and eventually become lucid in life and “wake up” from it into something beyond the afterlife. Because the afterlife itself is part of the dream of existence.
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f4401e No.1488
>In so doing, all others whom you create to populate your realm will essentially be highly-sophisticated tulpas
Another important point to note: creation does not exist. In the sense that the multiverse, as the mind of the All, comes with batteries included. Everything one can imagine does exist already. By imagining this place, you are calling forth all the things that would exist in it. You are creating in the sense of rearrangement. And what you are creating is a place where all the wondrous things that you imagine can gather and be where they belong.
This is no different from waking life. The circumstances of life are such that we don't remember we have this power of creative imagination and end up swept up by currents we create ourselves with our own power. But many times I have spent an afternoon consciously enjoying an astral locale in my mind in vivid detail just to find it manifested in my waking life some time later. We have this power both in life and in death, but we need to be conscious enough wherever we are in order to exercise it. We only lose this power when we rob ourselves of it, with it.
This realization should help one reclaim the importance of myth, fantasy and stories. Of conscious play (not escapism) and imagination.
For too many adults, play is a way of hiding from things. Not for children. Play is a very important matter for a child, and so should it be for an adult.
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9de5c8 No.1489
>>1478
>I was wondering what fellow anons thought about it
This what the board is specificallly for. We call it the Sunflower Project.
As
>>1482
said check the pastebins in the library, the temple thread
>>10
>>3
and this one where we do talk about what tulpas are
>>187
The idea of building your own home in the afterlife/astral isn't unique. This guy runs a similar effort called the S1 Project:
https://www.youtube.com/user/deosilwiddershins/
Maybe down the road we will all connect our worlds.
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f4401e No.1493
>>1489
Sorcerer Tal was already linked, bakka.
Also, I call this board /fringe/. Nothing personnel.
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9de5c8 No.1494
>>1493
You shouldn't. It's already been laid out clearly in the meta thread that this isn't /fringe/.
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9da4cd No.1495
>>1478
There is a saying, attributed to no one in particular, "everyone will be given the afterlife according to their faith". There might be something to this.
Tulpas a fake and gay though, accept no substitutes for real souls.
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b8194b No.1497
>>1494
It's /fringe/ enough, it has everything needed to be /fringe/. So it is.
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065893 No.1502
>>1497
It clearly says sunflower tho. Also BO stated multiple times that this is not meant to be /fringe/ and it has nothing to do with /fringe/. This board has it's own direction and purpose.
Who the fuck are you anyway to come into a board that is not yours and try to impose your own shit here? If you are really this desperate for another fucking fringe then go to balkanchan/x and start posting there.
I imagine if I set up a temple for hermetic and gnostic studies and some fucking shrimp would come and constantly proclaim that my temple is a fucking catholic church and it has everything to be a church so it is a church because that stupid shrimp says so…I'd be fucking pissed. Go find your own actual church or build one yourself but either way fuck off from my temple. The audacity and giant egos some people have is truely astounding.
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b8194b No.1503
>>1502
It is called /sunflower/, but just like how balkanchan/x/ can be called /fringe/, so can this place. Even balkan/x/ doesn't conform to my view of /fringe/, so the actual nature of it can change. The actual sessions of /sunflower/, the part that should be the most focused on, hasn't been discussed. Even the methods that are most currently used now aren't anything original to /sunflower/, and can be adapted into any other format. Look at the current topics that are discussed now. /fringe/ is back and this is the closest thing to it currently.
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065893 No.1506
>>1503
balkanchan/x/ - fringe. The BO there confirms it's /fringe/ and he just put /x/ cus it's shorter.
/sunflower/ - Sunflower. The BO here denies it's fringe and doesn't want it to be fringe.
So the very least you could do is to stop pushing this "It's /fringe/ bro even if you don't like it."
Just because it deals with occultism and spirituality doesn't automatically mean it has to be /fringe/. There can be more and other things than fringe, you understand that don't you. There can actually be other occult boards than /fringe/. Again it's not your board so it's insane to come here and proclaim it's fringe when the very creator of this board explicitly is against it.
>Look at the current topics that are discussed now.
The endless autistic "only my stuff is true, you are so wrong" argument that has ruined the entire general thread? Or the mundane unenlightened "we're gonna fix women bro" stuff? I turn away my head in disgust for both of those. This board truely has been shitted on lately. But that's not the point of my post. What boggles my mind is that you keep proclaiming that this is /fringe/ like a spoiled 9 year old brat while it clearly is not meant to be /fringe. Can you be more respectful and behave like a decent being? If I was BO I'd be quick to drop the banhammer in this case, over and over again if it has to be.
>The actual sessions of /sunflower/, the part that should be the most focused on, hasn't been discussed.
Because you keep trying to turn this board into /fringe/.
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9de5c8 No.1507
>>1503
>The actual sessions of /sunflower/, the part that should be the most focused on, hasn't been discussed. Even the methods that are most currently used now aren't anything original to /sunflower/
There are two threads for it
>>3
>>97
While some overarching topics were brought up in
>>13
>>38
Nothing here is original superficially just like any expression of culture and language can be derived from earlier expressions. But if you write a story with a new composition, it's still a unique work if the originality is high enough. If it isn't it's a plagiarization.
If you want to do some kind of pedigree analysis of this board's egregore it's more /x/ than /fringe/, but as some anons have pointed out part of the culture here isn't imageboard native but comes from early wordpress blogging and discord autism with some /a/.
This board would not have existed on 8ch because even if some want this to be 8ch, it's been renamed for a reason, chan being replaced by kun to indicate maturity the first version of the site was intimately linked to a specific movement and ideology. The site owners have made clear through their actions that they do not want to return to what was. The old /fringe/ bears values not suitable for 8kun. It's a sign of how it's viewed that merely creating a board with the name on the new meguca had the entire /a/ main thread freak out and talking about how the site would be ruined because of the association with Smiley and right wing terrorism.
The /sunflower/ egregore at its foundation is built on an understanding of things found in abrahamic traditions, ancient greek and egyptian myth, under the supervision of the astral originals of the touhou world (yokais). The difference may not be obvious if you look only at the surface. /fringe/ was some kind of western modern occultism with an attempt at including nazi "paganism."
/sunflower/ is more of a weeb version of /x/. You can be a white supremacist here, from an esoteric standpoint, but leave the policitical aspects out. This board is meant to follow the "multipolar" worldview rather than the "good vs evil" view of the cold war.
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b8194b No.1508
>>1506
I understand your complaints and the answer to the statements is, yes, that's why this is /fringe/. I'm not the only one who sees it in this manner. You can continue to post about why you dislike those who claim this is /fringe/, there are avenues you can take that would directly contradict my view of what this board is. Specifically, participating in sessions. I'm very narrow-minded in my belief that this isn't a viable option, and the board would cease all discussion if this were to take place. This is essentially what happened, once the nature of /sunflower/ has been discussed, the nature of various topics related to vampirism has been discussed, at this point the nature of how astral paradises are made is the only thing I've not seen discussed enough.
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f4401e No.1511
Take it to the shitposting thread please. I like my /fringeflower/ to be comfy and you’re shitting it up.
Instead, let me ask. Has anybody read The Lost Secret of Death? It’s on b-ok.org for downloading and on Amazon for buying. It makes a point for the fact that we split at death. One part dreams an afterlife, powerless, and the other goes on to reincarnate, oblivious.
It’s an uncomfortable view. But it would make sense of why Egyptians were so obsessed with preparing for the afterlife and it also fits with other religious ideas (explained in the book).
Presumably avoiding this split by doing something like Teachings of the Immortals is the only way to get out of this situation.
What have you read about this? Creating a nice afterlife for your tulpa self (the meadow, as it has been discussed in the astral travel thread) is all good, but I would rather be whole.
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9de5c8 No.1512
>>1508
Let's not complicate things shall we? The original motivation behind the creation of this board is to build an astral hub, creating an astral version of social media. This way it would be eternal and definitely distributed with no one telling you what you can talk about or not.
Naturally this means you need an astral afterlife and a place to stay if you're to use it in the long run, but the main motivation is still to create this eternal imageboard, referred to as the promised chan. Where everyone can be 12 year old lesbians forever ;^)
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f4401e No.1514
Another book relevant to this thread is Greg Egan’s Permutation City.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permutation_City
It’s science fiction about a simulated world. To explain how it is relevant to this thread would be to spoil it and I like it too much to do that. It has nothing to do with the simulation being reality or the afterlife or anything like that. It’s way more subtle.
Basically a simulated reality is created for a reason I forgot, and copies of people’s personalities are placed there to live (they’re copies because you can’t actually move consciousness from the brain to computer memory), sort of how your lower self or soul would live a dream afterlife.
If someone reads or has read the book I would love to discuss the ending especially. It’s not something I can really explain in a post, so you need to have read it so we could get into it.
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9de5c8 No.1515
>>1514
The ending of Ghost in the Shell - SAC2 refers to this theme, where an emergency plan is to upload everyone's "ghost" to the web to save them from dying in a nuclear strike. They would then be put back on earth in cybernetic bodies, or live on in the web.
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b8194b No.1516
>>1514
The ayy lmaos have already created something simlar. You can find the entire structure in the egregore, somewhere. I was made to see it after I completed a type of mathematical thinking. I had made the mathematical thinking myself after trying to complete a specific structure in myself, so whether I was guided or not to the formation I have no clue. Other than, of course, just seeing the structure.
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f4401e No.1517
>>1515
Interesting. I never watched the remake of the series. The characters changed too much for my taste.
But the deeper theme of Permutation City is how conscious processes can happen in a self sustained way. How to create an infinite amount of conscious experience in a finite amount of time (and energy). To the point of creating subjective eternity in an objective instant. What I’m alluding to is that the afterlife could be a singularity. In fact it needs to be in order to be outside of time. Now that I think about it many of Egan’s books deal with time happening in a perpendicular axis to normal time. Interesting stuff. But there’s no point in getting deeper into it because I would have to explain the book in its entirety and wouldn’t make it justice.
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f4401e No.1518
>>1512
>Where everyone can be 12 year old lesbians forever
It’s ironic for you to say that because this was one of the focuses in the old times of /fringe/ before 8chan and fringechan,
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5b1afa No.1519
Hey, everyone, OP here. I have to say, I'm glad to see everyone finds the topic compelling.
>>1482
>>1489
These look really interesting; I'll look into them asap. I actually didn't know that was the primary purpose of the board; I admit I was too excited at the thought of a spiritual successor to /fringe/ coming back to notice at the time. (Though according to >>1506 and >>1507 that may not be accurate.)
In any case, happy to see I'm among like-minded individuals.
>>1488
So in other words, one doesn't have to worry about the problems inherent in creating a tulpa, as the being in question already exists as an independent entity? But if this hypothetical astral pocket, and everything / everyone inside, already exists independently of my subconscious, how is it possible to imprint one's Will upon it? Or am I missing the point?
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3ae8dc No.1520
>>1514
I only read the summary of it, so please excuse me if I miss some of the nuances. I came up with the idea at the core of the book independently many years ago though and spent a lot of time thinking about it.
To summarize my thinking on it. Everything computable can be expressed as a function. Functions and all of their possible argument/return combinations exist as sort of platonic ideals and do not need to be computed. For example: if you have a universe function transformed to just take the time of that universe as the argument, even if you can't skip steps in the simulation process(compute 10 years in the relative future as fast as 100 years or with a similar number of computation steps), all of the information needed to is there, just "compressed". Thus if the universe is computable, it can exist without being computed. This does not really lead to any deep insights or conclusions though as it is functionally the same as the many worlds interpretation, as you can assume all possible sets of initial conditions and rules for physics exist. The other interesting thing about functions is that you can apply them to other functions, creating mutation factors. For example taking a copy of our universe at this point in time and applying a modifier function that makes some form of magic real, without changing anything else. So, if this is true, everything is already being run in simulations and the plot of the book makes no sense. It's just a way to walk someone along towards (mis)understanding these ideas.
I used to think that these popularizations of simulation like ideas were just people not thinking deeply enough. I now think there's a deeper agenda at play. These types of people have a sort of understanding of what may happen i.e. "Roko's basilisk". But they fail to take their thinking on this to a deeper level. The killer application of consciousness simulation is time dilated evolution of intelligent actors. This leads to prescience or 4th dimensional consciousness with quantum computers. The killer application isn't using them to crack passwords, this is a smokescreen. It's to apply Grover's algorithm to simulated consciousnesses, or even better networks of them. This will allow them to predict the future by every second testing an infinite number of potential neural networks against new data, seeing which one came closest to/actually predicted the future. This same type of thing would be applied to simulated persons. At first they would just introduce subtle changes to nudge things in a certain direction. Eventually though anyone uploaded to one of these systems would be donating their souls and minds to be used by the machine as interchangeable parts to create whatever it needs in the moment. Disassembling you at the very core, taking out the useful bits, improving them and tossing out the rest. There is no such thing as a free lunch. I left my understanding of this process in the meeting room. It's an inert squid thing in a jar with a black cloth over it.
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9d39d0 No.1521
>>1502
The /fringe/ isn't a place, it's a shared mentality, a zeitgeist of imageboard occultism. Make a place for occultism on an imageboard, /fringe/ follows.
This entire board depends on its posters. If you want to keep /sunflower/ not /fringe/, start banning people for fringeposting. Until you do, anything the BO claims is irrelevant.
>>1511
The 'powerless' part is only the shadow of your personality, it is the imprint of your psyche that gets channeled by mediums and necromancers.
The 'unconscious' part, ironically enough, is your consciousness. It only goes unconscious when it forgets itself after birth. There's always a brief return to limited omniscience where you completely remember your overall cosmic existence and goals, before incarnating again to accomplish them.
The only way to stop this process and retain full awareness and agency into your death and potential re-incarnation is by uniting your consciousness and psyche during life. This results in, as you said, being "whole".
>>1519
I think >>1488 was referring to universal potentiality. Basically everything that has/will/could ever be exists as an unactuated potential of the vacuum state, and the act of you 'creating' them is actually just the universal cosmic mind bringing them into the present reality from their hypostatic state. We should heed his words, >>1488 anon is clearly a powerful magician, just look at that wonderful get.
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b8194b No.1522
>>1520
It's nice to know people who think like me exists. This is my thinking of how god particles work, but my thinking isn't so technical. The item looks like the beginning of an immortal mind. Useful for me, thank you for sharing this.
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ac471b No.1525
>>1521
Trying so hard not to be /fringe/ is cringe. The twinge of missing /fringe/ makes me want to go to the fridge, open the hinge and binge, but I refuse to dinge my soul, because of what I learned on /fringe/.
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9de5c8 No.1526
>>1525
That's like saying /u/ relies on /a/ posters and that for this reason /u/ is /a/ and there should be no difference between the boards. There is a difference for a reason and denying it won't change this.
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57a1d8 No.1540
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9de5c8 No.1541
This settles it
>>>/fringe/
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502db3 No.1547
>>1541
wooooooooo boi this is where the fun begins. we're gonna reach levels of imageboard occultism never before thought possible.
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006b7e No.1570
>>1521
>Basically everything that has/will/could ever be exists as an unactuated potential of the vacuum state, and the act of you 'creating' them is actually just the universal cosmic mind bringing them into the present reality from their hypostatic state.
So, in other words, since the mind of the All contains everything conceivable, therefore the set of circumstances and variables which would constitute one's hypothetical paradise already exist as an aggregate, and it depends on the practitioner's will to bring about its actual existence? But does that mean the practitioner's will basically can serve as a conduit between their own intellect and the mind of the All?
>We should heed his words, >>1488 anon is clearly a powerful magician, just look at that wonderful get.
I noticed those digits, myself. Wonderful, indeed.
>>1541
Excellent.
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502db3 No.1571
>>1570
>the practitioner's will can serve as a conduit between intellect and All
Yes, exactly. More specifically, the practitioner's will is the mind of the All, whether they realize it or not. This is why there's a distinction between the will of Satan, Man, and God. They're all degrees of alignment with the universal Will, which is your own Will unrealized at the present moment.
It's less that your will brings about its existence, and more that at the moment you actuate it into reality, it retroactively becomes a pre-eminent element of Creation, and part of God's plan, which is your own. Basically, enforced fantasy is authoritative reality, past and future.
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39c9a0 No.1573
>>1541
Based. Now I can unsubscribe from this subreddit!
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