Propserity Gospel 06/17/19 (Mon) 20:02:28 No. 132393 [Last50 Posts]
The Prosperity Gospel is biblical. The "Christians" that want suffering and misery on Earth are bitter, jealous, covetousness, or just warped. It's true that the Bible is bigger than the Prosperity Gospel but there's nothing wrong with the preaching of Joel Osteen and anyone else who is optimistic and wants Christians to be blessed here on Earth and in Heaven. The idea you have to suffer horribly with disease, debts, and other afflictions your whole life until you die is nonsense. Those things are mainly from Satan not from God. God chastens his people but he doesn't let them pointlessly suffer and he is merciful. Also Jesus tells us to check our thoughts for a reason.
I am not convinced that people criticizing the Prosperity Gospel are right in their assertions.
____________________________
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06/17/19 (Mon) 20:03:12 No. 132394
In my view there are two kinds of evil; evil which is caused by ignorance of god (could also be called worldliness) and evil which is caused by the angels who chose to rebel in order for god to manifest himself fully (his grace, his wrath, etc.).
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06/18/19 (Tue) 03:57:00 No. 132423
The doctrine of original sin is obviously a corruption
That much anyone can figure out
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06/18/19 (Tue) 07:02:29 No. 132434
>>132393
So then how do you reconcile your stance with the book of Job? Job did literally nothing wrong yet God still allowed him to suffer.
Also your stance is a false dichotomy.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 07:59:49 No. 132436
What God giveth he can taketh. Prosperity gospel is heretical and motivates only by material gains and temporary feelings of bliss. That is why it was condemned by the Church Fathers in the first century of Christianity.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 08:00:55 No. 132437
>>132434
That was just a story, and it is a bet. God was literally just messing with the Devil. It is no worry for Job. Just his jerk children and wife suffered permanently.
Job himself did okay.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 14:28:35 No. 132451
>>132393
How much does your Rabbi pay you to post here?
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06/18/19 (Tue) 15:56:01 No. 132453
“Leave all your possessions behind and come and follow me.”-Jesus Christ
The man then went away from Jesus saddened because he was very wealth and did not want to part with it.
Then Jesus goes on to say something along the lines of it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of god.
So yeah OP…
It’s simply time to face facts that the prosperity gospel is heresy.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 16:55:31 No. 132454
All Christianity is perverted nonsense designed to control its members through fear.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 17:41:56 No. 132457
>>132434
This life is a test. The reward comes after death.
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SAGE! 06/18/19 (Tue) 17:50:51 No. 132461
>>132393
1. You're an idiot
2. Why are you posting this on /fringe/ instead of /christian/, actually nevermind
3. The apostles lived and died in austere conditions to spread the Gospel and prove their faith to men, so that they might believe in God.
4. Even the first followers of Jesus after the apostles as detailed in Acts, lived austere lives, having given away all that previously belonged to them in a life trial from there on after.
I don't claim to be a good Christian, and to be honest with you I find it inappropriate to consider myself worthy of such inclusion, but I do believe that to exercise true faith is to forget the world and go on a new existence with Christ, carrying your cross with Him.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 20:59:05 No. 132479
>>132423
You sure? Sin doesn't just mean doing something wrong, it means falling short of the glory of god (imperfection), and in that view everything we are and do is tainted with sin from the fall (the descent from the perfect platonic plane to our world where the forms are mixed and distorted).
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06/18/19 (Tue) 21:00:19 No. 132480
>>132436
Joel Osteen addressed his critics saying when he speaks of prosperity he means the whole man, like on every level and every angle, not just monetary success.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 21:03:57 No. 132481
>>132453
Either the prosperity gospel means "monetary success" in which case it's heretical or Joel Osteen isn't really a "prosperity gospel preacher".
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06/18/19 (Tue) 21:19:14 No. 132483
>>132461
Well my feelings are:
I should be virtuous for virtues sake. Do good for it is good and acknowledge god for it (if I can, sometimes I do the good and do not even know it) for only with him can I work out his plan for the better and do the things which truly benefit the spirit of man.
If I do good to "merit my salvation" or to "please god" or to "bargain with him" or any reason extrinsic to "the good is worthy of being done for its own sake" then that is a mistake. God shall, through the holy spirit, make me able to do things worthy of his name.
I pray for the wealthy and I feel shame in my own desires not to pursue wealth since I am way too content simply to know god and to love him and to live for the time he requires of me. The people who sacrifice themselves for wealth are an important part of society, keeping the world going round, and it is a shame that more people who go after wealth don't keep god first and foremost in their heart.
As I view it poverty, suffering, and such are just the things that (at least for me and I suppose the elect) drive man towards god even harder. Keep us from comforting illusions.
I especially love Job. I was reading him two days ago again. People say the story of Job is depressing but for me I understand him and admire hm. There are those who like to think Job was dealt with unfairly; but in truth Job is every mortal. We come into this world, have all these things added onto us, and all of it taken away. We all die and pass on. He is every single one of us and if we think Job was treated poorly then, our animosity towards god, is very apparent in that.
My wealth is stored up in heaven. It is not of this world and so I can handle whatever god throws my way, whether it's the tyranny of a rotten peace, an abundance of wealth threatening to eat up all my time and numb me into living death, it does not matter for god is the same today, tomorrow, before, and always; he is the rock of my faith.
Anyways where is an example of Joel Osteen directly contradicting the scriptures? Yeah he chooses to put his focus in a skewed way but where's a direct contradiction?
Right now I've got a couple suggestions on stuff to read and go through. Maybe I'll find something on my own but feel free to quote Osteen and then show a piece of scripture that directly contradicts him.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 21:24:12 No. 132484
I think, based on my discussions and readings, that god will bless us with fruits and make us able to bear our afflictions with joy. Even in our suffering we shall glorify god and our burdens shall not weigh us down.
Pslam 55
1 {To the chief Musician on Neginoth, Maschil, A Psalm of David.} Give ear to my prayer, O God; and hide not thyself from my supplication.
2 Attend unto me, and hear me: I mourn in my complaint, and make a noise;
3 Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me.
4 My heart is sore pained within me: and the terrors of death are fallen upon me.
5 Fearfulness and trembling are come upon me, and horror hath overwhelmed me.
6 And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.
7 Lo, then would I wander far off, and remain in the wilderness. Selah.
8 I would hasten my escape from the windy storm and tempest.
9 Destroy, O Lord, and divide their tongues: for I have seen violence and strife in the city.
10 Day and night they go about it upon the walls thereof: mischief also and sorrow are in the midst of it.
11 Wickedness is in the midst thereof: deceit and guile depart not from her streets.
12 For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hid myself from him:
13 But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.
14 We took sweet counsel together, and walked unto the house of God in company.
15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.
16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
18 He hath delivered my soul in peace from the battle that was against me: for there were many with me.
19 God shall hear, and afflict them, even he that abideth of old. Selah. Because they have no changes, therefore they fear not God.
20 He hath put forth his hands against such as be at peace with him: he hath broken his covenant.
21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.
22 Cast thy burden upon the LORD, and he shall sustain thee: he shall never suffer the righteous to be moved.
23 But thou, O God, shalt bring them down into the pit of destruction: bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days; but I will trust in thee.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 21:32:12 No. 132487
>>132454
I pretty much agree concerning Christianity aka those who call themselves Christians and populate all the churches.
I am not convinced there is any problem with the Bible itself.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 21:42:50 No. 132489
>>132437
I have a question for you.
Is it a sin for me to never wish the wrath of god on anyone?
Stephen didn't want his persecutors to face the wrath of god.
The Stoning of Stephen
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 21:47:51 No. 132490
>>132487
The fact that Christianity teaches the only way to not be sent to hell is to be a member of the right god club is proof that either its completely bullshit or the Christian gods are the most evil creatures ever to exist. The same goes for Islam. Those two religions are the only ones I know of that think that way.
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06/18/19 (Tue) 22:41:29 No. 132492
>>132490
I myself, and some other Christians I've talked to, all agree that God is the God of All and saves even people that never heard the Bible. We are held to account for what we know.
Genesis 15:6
And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness
( Check these passages about accountability too: https://www.openbible.info/topics/being_held_accountable_for_what_we_know )
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06/19/19 (Wed) 16:12:18 No. 132511
Anyone else going to respond to my bait ?
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06/19/19 (Wed) 17:50:05 No. 132513
>>132479
If that's what you call sin, then what do you call immoral acts?
This corruption of language is sin, not just in the sense that everything in the material realm is imperfect but in the sense that it (appears that there) is an active attempt to spread ignorance about how it's very easy to be immoral and we need to be like Christ and, at the very least, ascend our base desires.
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06/19/19 (Wed) 17:53:21 No. 132514
>>132481
>the prosperity gospel means "monetary success" in which case it's heretical
So everyone agrees on this?
What the original words mean is anyone's guess. Who knows Aramaic Greek Hebrew?
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06/19/19 (Wed) 18:37:22 No. 132517
>>132492
>God of All
so how is it accurate at all to attach any one specific attribute on the macrocosm of the universe? Your All-God is just as much omni-malevolent as he is omni-benevolent, right? I don't think it can be said that one can be 'saved' by such a broadly defined agent, you'd need to work with some specific aspect of it, which is where polytheism comes in.
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06/19/19 (Wed) 22:24:29 No. 132519
>>132479
>>132423
>>132513
The anon who's angry at original sin has a good reason to be: It's one of the favorite tools used by abusers and assholes as an excuse to cause pain and suffering to their fellow man. "You need to be poor to be spiritual" is another such excuse.
>>132453
I feel like that passage may be a case of "lost in translation," It seemed like from that passage, the rich man was too wrapped up in his material life to walk with Jesus, and that's why Jesus was so sad about it. Honestly, In my spiritual interactions, wealth was never something to be ashamed of. The reality of wealth however, is that self-control is infinitely more valuable than anything worth everything.
Anyone can get rich, but only those with self-control can stay rich.
Yes, I know that those with absurd amounts of capital can probably keep their wealth for a long time even with ridiculous spending, but it's very possible. Stupidity is the fastest path to bankruptcy- it's why the mouse is slowly but surely bleeding to death. I know the stock price is up, but that's never a sure thing, the only sure thing in stocks is that they will fluctuate.
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06/21/19 (Fri) 19:23:06 No. 132576
>>132517
>Your All-God is just as much omni-malevolent as he is omni-benevolent, right?
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06/24/19 (Mon) 02:38:31 No. 132679
>>132519
Wow, I fucked the intent of that post up… let me rephrase, and show the passage.
>>132453
''''The Rich Young Man
(Mark 10:17-31; Luke 18:18-30)
Jesus told him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.”
When the young man heard this, he went away in sorrow, because he had great wealth.
Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”'''
The impression I got with that passage, is that Jesus was asking him to sacrifice his wealth so he would have nothing burdening his mind on the journey. Had he gone with Jesus without doing as he was told, he would've essentially left the estate and wealth alone to be stolen. His mind would've been preoccupied with worries about his money and he would've ultimately regretted everything.
Without the wealth, he would have nothing to fear or worry about, and if he had returned home after his journey, he may have returned to a home thanking him for his generosity and as a good friend rather than just another rich man.
I personally imagine the phrase Jesus used would've been closer to "A camel would pass through a needle's eye before a man burdened by his wealth would enter the domain of God."
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06/27/19 (Thu) 15:35:34 No. 132730
i REALLY needed this thread.
I'll greentext my situation and i expect to be helped.
>be middle class, but constantly want to be rich
>at around 20 YO find out about tithing
>after a year of tithing my savings tripe, I was gifted an apartment, still find money bills in my box when i hadnt put them there
I'm considering making a BIG donation to a church charity since im jobless and I expect the donation will increase my wealth.
i just need money for food(i need 6 meals a day due to gym) and for political leverage/societal class(im a shy person and making new friends makes me nervous tho)
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06/27/19 (Thu) 15:37:40 No. 132731
>>132461
you can be a millonarie and be austere
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06/27/19 (Thu) 23:30:27 No. 132748
>>132730
>>132731
How about you invest your wealth too? Do your research on investment companies, and go with your instincts, hell, I remember hearing a story from my financial advisor about a mailman who lived frugally, kept investing his money, when he retired, he was worth… some-odd million, with another house, and his kids college paid off while being nothing but a mailman .
>>132393
>Also Jesus tells us to check our thoughts for a reason.
now that is relevant to my interests, which passage does he say to look inward at our own thoughts?
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06/28/19 (Fri) 00:13:33 No. 132750
if God is not found guilty of treachery and He does justice and all the dues are paid (since He is God) and the system is balanced and makes sense then God has every right to actually be God and every right to do as He wills or do things such as exalt His name or choose who exactly is exalted and considered Divine, such as if it were to be that God chose his Son (Jesus) for Divinity…
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06/28/19 (Fri) 00:15:08 No. 132751
>>132750
tl;dr….
by my human reasoning, if God is found just then He can indeed 'do as He wills'
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06/28/19 (Fri) 00:24:21 No. 132752
the Bible says many different things at different points depending on which point you are reading the Bible
>>132423
evidence
>>132454
please tell us more about why you think this?
>>132457
this is not exclusively a Christian teaching
>>132479
what is the 'perfect platonic plane'? sounds cool
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06/28/19 (Fri) 01:29:42 No. 132754
>>132748
>His kids college paíd off
Haha. In my country education is free.
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06/28/19 (Fri) 01:50:55 No. 132755
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:00:09 No. 132756
>>132755
"i mean, think about it. i mean, let's say Joel Osteen - tomorrow - you know, if you actually even were to be so deluded as to think that he even believes the Gospel… or is even saved… i mean let's say Joel Osteen just decided in his heart - "I don't believe the Bible is real at all. I think the Bible's a fairy tale." I mean, good night - why change jobs? You're a multi-millionaire. You're famous. Everybody loves you and thinks you're wonderful.
Look, these guys are in it for the wrong reasons. Cause they don't have any faith - they're not living for that Heavenly country and the Heavenly city and laying up treasures in Heaven. They're not choosing to suffer affliction with the people of God… rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season. Cause they don't even have any faith that the recompense of the reward is even there."
- Pastor Steven Anderson
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:05:18 No. 132757
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYXZQ9BRiGw
^here is a guy who makes a pretty good argument in favor of segregation….this music i'm hearing in this thread is atrocious to me even though it's Christian music
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:17:23 No. 132758
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:20:40 No. 132759
>>132487
except for its great multitude of contradictions and its compilation by the Romans who were not Jews and were at the head of one of the most bloodthirsty and oppressive regimes in human history
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:23:39 No. 132760
>>132489
… in the text, at least Christ teaches to love and to pray for those who persecute you….Christ teaches for our heart to not be "hardened"… perhaps because they have an extraordinary need for God's mercy in light of the weight of their sin
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:31:48 No. 132761
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
this link is for the person who asked about the Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic etymology of the euphemism "prosperity gospel"
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:37:08 No. 132762
>>132519
I disagree that "anybody can get rich"….. that sounds like imaginary 'economy dogma'
…I think that "the economy" is just a false concept that the t the owners of production try to sell poor people and otherwise unsuspecting people…Marx talks about this a lott
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:38:12 No. 132763
>>132761
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
>the Greek/Hebrew/Aramaic etymology of the euphemism "prosperity gospel"
Where?
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:40:05 No. 132764
>>132763
ah, yeah sorry… I see that Wikipedia did not actually have an etymology section in that link
rather it explains the concept…. I think you may find more information about "prosperity theology" if you study the reformation or maybe one of those old school Catholic guys has written about it
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:46:48 No. 132766
>>132730
dude, "ask and you shall receive"
…sometimes, God wants us to learn to ask for the things that we need…..this is a lesson which I believe God has taught me
just go around the streets and ask every white man or every gentleman that looks like they might be a Christian if they can spare a bit of cash to remedy the cause of the needy (yourself)
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06/28/19 (Fri) 02:50:52 No. 132767
>>132748
"The Kingdom of Heaven is within you."
"Why think ye evil in your hearts?"
"Judge with righteous judgment."
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06/28/19 (Fri) 03:35:09 No. 132768
>>132762
>the communist manifesto
>in twenty fricking 9teen
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06/28/19 (Fri) 12:24:00 No. 132772
OP:have you had any Lucky with investing your Money?
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06/28/19 (Fri) 12:39:27 No. 132773
>>132768
even aside from Marx critical thinking would lead you to the same conclusions
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06/28/19 (Fri) 12:47:51 No. 132774
>>132483
>"I pray for the wealthy and I feel shame in my own desires not to pursue wealth since I am way too content simply to know god and to love him and to live for the time he requires of me. The people who sacrifice themselves for wealth are an important part of society, keeping the world going round, and it is a shame that more people who go after wealth don't keep god first and foremost in their heart."
This is a powerful statement, anon. With a few implications.
If we take the Bible and dogmatism out of the equation, most certainly it appears that "wealth" is a path to altruism. That is to say that you cannot open homeless shelters, or help your family without wealth.
The only way you can help the world without wealth is through the power of God. As long as wealth does not lead to such things as greed or social inequality or reckless capitalism.
Contrary to the Catholic Church's medieval teachings on things like loans and usury, to borrow money from somebody is to create production out of nothing. It can go wrong of course, perhaps many people are given into their greed or make mistakes in calculations and borrow more than they can pay back. I'm not really a financial expert.
However, in light of the Bible, you could make an argument for or against wealth based on the dogmatism found within the Bible. The overall narrative of the Bible (lol) appears to condemn living for money and also to condemn 'prosperity theology'. That is my honest take it on it after reading the whole Bible.
The Bible says "money is the root of all kinds of evil" as well as many other things such as having faith in God rather than faith in what you can accumulate here in the 3-d Earth Matrix reality.
That is not to say that there are exceptions. If all things are possible, then clearly perhaps God created wealth and money for a reason. Perhaps for OP God speaks to him through wealth and money, whereas more generally (or in a more conventional religious sense) God would not speak to people through wealth and money.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread671287/pg1
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06/28/19 (Fri) 14:03:00 No. 132780
>>132774
>>132774
You could also be altruistic without wealth such as bypassing society's conventions.
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06/28/19 (Fri) 16:26:45 No. 132784
>>132774
i DEFEND social inequality.
hierarchies are sacred.
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06/28/19 (Fri) 16:32:28 No. 132785
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06/28/19 (Fri) 16:43:57 No. 132786
>>132785
I want to recruit indians to gang-stalk local girls
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06/29/19 (Sat) 21:51:20 No. 132824
>>132784
This. We are to have hierarchies and to serve one another and to know our place in the world and play our roles. We aren't to all be made into one interchangeable mush.
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06/30/19 (Sun) 03:34:35 No. 132837
>>132824
Because it triggers you.
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