/fringe/ - Fringe

>>109897

You'll go to hell for murder (killing yourself is also murder) or be reincarnated as a lowest lifeform i.e. deep sea small fish or worm etc. Then you have to work your way back up to human again over several centuries until you get back where you are today, and can face the same issue again.

Because whatever you killed yourself over will not go away until you solve it, it will remain, and get worse next time. If you want to get rid of it, you need to endure it, not find an easy way out.

>>109899

That seems unjust. I didn't choose to be brought into this world, and yet I have to suffer the consequences of my existence and will be punished if I decide to opt out? I get that suicide can cause tremendous harm to the people around you, but it doesn't seem fair that someone who is suffering greatly should be forced to live solely for the benefit of others. And in my own, I'd be doing the people I care about a great service because I'd no longer be a burden to them. They'd be torn up, but their lives would objectively be better materially once I'm gone. I'm not exaggerating.

>>109897

I just recently made a post explaining the metaphysics of this in Question Thread #34

Ctrl+F "Suicide"

>>109897

> Any chance it's anything good?

No

>>109904

Honestly, I'd settle for drab purgatory type stuff or eternity as a ghost. I just don't want to be burned and tortured forever. Almost anything would be better than this.

Are there no metaphysical schemes that envision a positive afterlife for suicides?

>>109906

Hell as it is know in popular culture is a meme. In reality you will simply cease to be

>>109901

> I didn't choose to be brought into this world

If you are here it means you accepted the terms. The moment you broke free of them you'd no longer have to stay. Lets put it this way:

If you think you don't want the suffering here, why are you using that human brain to think these things? The body itself has a cost, stop thinking immediately, stop feeling hunger when you haven't eaten and stop feeling tired from lack of sleep.

As long as you accept these feelings you accept the terms, and the cost that is suffering. Destroying the body as a way of escaping from it doesn't help, then you have to pay for that act as well. The body is not for free. That's why we have the concept of enlightenment and rising above the karma sphere, giving up the lust for life. You don't do this by acting outward, you stop acting, the state called non-action "wu wei" in chinese. I'm not talking about any specific philosophy, this is the general idea repeated over the world.

>I'd be doing the people I care about a great service because I'd no longer be a burden to them.

Are you allowed to remove their suffering like this? They have to pay as well, and if you make their lives too easy that is also a sin, you're just enabling undeserved hedonism and laze. People need to suffer, who are you to decide that they shouldn't? Did you make the plan for the function of the universe? Don't upset the natural order.

>>109909

>In reality you will simply cease to be

As if this was any less painful. That is the meaning of eternal hell - ceasing to exist. To an outsider this seems like nothing, but the sinner will have to pay back everything to other people at once before being cast out of existence. Of course it feels nice to those people who were wronged, they get compensation for what the sinner did to them.

If your mind gets extremely small and petty and you can't tolerate the smallest uneasiness in your life, how bad would it feel to suddenly have all of life's suffering thrown at you at once? Your attention is all focused on pleasure so it will be unbearable and seem like forever, every second dragged out while people are receiving back what you took from their lives.

So yeah, you "simply cease to be" and in the process you suffer endlessly, because your view is extremely narrow and subjective.

>>109899

hurr durrr muh christardation

>>109899

lies

Basically when you die some beings might try trick you into reincarnating but you don't have to agree. They also can't force you into hell.

>>109923

>Basically when you die some beings might try trick you into reincarnating but you don't have to agree.

Why do beings want to trick you into reincarnating?

>They also can't force you into hell.

Hell is voluntary?

>>109923

>They also can't force you into hell.

>>109925

>Hell is voluntary?

Yes and you'll go there yourself out of shame because no one else will accept you.

You become part of the ghost squad

I have advice, don't go into the light it's a trick

>>109951

Seriously?

The afterlife sounds like that episode of The Twilight Zone with the guy and his dog. Are there really all these beings tying to trick you into going to hell or wherever? It seems fucked up that you could end up in hell or some other unpleasant state of being because some demon tricked you. Why doesn't God do something about this?

>>109972

Ur mum

>>109972

My friend's brother shot himself when I was in high school.

Later when I learned more about this stuff I decided to try and contact him if he was still around to offer him a way to find peace - opening a gate like I'd seen people do on tv to get rid of hauntings. The method is pretty simple once you find the person, I've done this several times but all of them were people who died naturally and got stuck here as "earthbound spirits" for whatever reason.

When he appeared and I tried to open the door for him to move on and find peace, he wouldn't accept it. I asked him where he wanted to go and he pointed in a direction so I made that door appear instead. It looked energetically like it was made of corrosive acid. I told him

>that's not a good place, you don't want to go there

Then I realized it matched his mindset perfectly. He was still in the same state of mind and emotion as when he shot himself, he hadn't changed after spending years as a ghost. He was still in complete terror as if he had just shot himself and realized what he had done and regretted it, there was no relief at all.

>he went and pulled open the door of acid, saying "I don't care"

>"I just want to get out of here"

Then he rushed through it as if walking into the mouth of a beast willingly, there was no way to stop him because he wouldn't listen. The door slammed shut and there was a faint scream of terror from the other side which quickly faded in the distance.

This experience is why I'm telling you not to kill yourself.

Even if hell is voluntary, your mind will be weak and you will fall for the idea of an easy way out. That's what this "deal" is about: it looks easy to you, you're saying you don't want to handle your own problems and that you'd rather have someone else take care of it for you. Then that's what they will do, and it's part of the deal that they'll torture you, that's how you pay for it. It's a trick, but lazy and weakminded people will fall for it. It's a fair deal, if they handle your debts they own you.

If you had the mental strength to not fall for it, you wouldn't kill yourself in the first place, so it's a certain consequence self murderers will go to hell, they can't resist it.

All you bullshitters thinking the universe isn't a harsh mean place are in for a surprise the day you die if you keep telling people it's ok to commit suicide, you'll be responsible for it if someone actually took your advice.

>>109972

>Why doesn't God do something about this?

Because free will.

If you want to know what your afterlife is going to be like simply look at your dreams. If your dreams are disturbed, disorienting, etc. you're in for a hell of an afterlife in all probability. There is a phase of astral decay though where you're basically a ghost and you run on the energies (loosh) you got for awhile, either days or years, until those energies are exhausted or you decide to move on with things and get on to your next life. Once the energies are exhausted the astral body decays and the spirit is freed up to find its next incarnation. This whole process basically cleanses you of your karmic debts and then leads you into the next life. If you know what you're doing, you can attain a good reincarnation. It is also possible to simply go ghost mode for a long ass time, maybe even thousands of years, but you have to find a way to obtain a steady supply of loosh from the living. It should be noted also that people who think about you still back on Earth exert a kind of gravity upon your soul that drags you back. Those who are grieving and releasing strong emotions and "can't let go of you" keep you here. If you also have a very strong desire to stay in some place or to haunt someone or whatever, that will keep you her a good long while. As disincarnate entity with no proper body you have less vital energy to go on but since you're operating entirely in 4D now if you're clever enough you can work out something. You may even be able to possess someone who is living and take their body or seek out the body of a young person and take that over or temporarily possess a man having sex with a woman and do some stuff that basically guarantees you the baby they make becomes your new vessel.

This is the afterlife for discordians. Why haven't you converted to Discordianism yet OP?

See attached video. It explains the prevailing conditions in the realm of the Discordians who have passed on from this plane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHNGdNVTq9E

As you can see, we have everything we need: 🍎🍏🍍🖋

Eris will take care of you. Hail her!

Greyfaces who forgot to check their pineal gland don't make it to Discordian heaven btw.

>>109901

>but it doesn't seem fair that someone who is suffering greatly should be forced to live solely for the benefit of others

Hey lets not kid ourselves. Our continued existence is an active detriment to the well-being of others. We are nothing but a burden on this world even if we make lots of money or whatever it doesn't matter there's too many people. We should become death cultists and worship culling.

Also that anon is full of shit. Just don't die with feelings of self-hate. See if you can martyr yourself.

>>109899

looks like god is a gigantic faggot

>>109901

this

>>110028

Why reason ye in your heart? Is it better to save a life, or to destroy??

>all these people ignoring the adepts posts

Seriously what is it with people and the irrational belief that one's life circumstances or next-life-circumstances pertains to some moralist concept of sin and punishment?

There's no reason to believe such. A more mechanical than moralistic explanation makes better sense.

The universe doesn't fucking care you killed a human or whatever anymore than if some crow eats kills a rat. Humans are inconsequential. At best you'll be haunted by or psychically maimed by people you hurt in this life but that's about it.

>>109983

Why do you need loosh from the living? Don't they get it from the sun in the first place? Can't you do that, or even move to a different solar system or galaxy?

>>110035

The universe might not care, but some very powerful nonphysical entities might get kinda bitchy about it.

I get the idea that karma/hell is to crime/punishment in this world.

There might be a lot of hells.

>>110035

>adept posts

On this board everyone's a neophyte

Its probably the only way to ensure a good afterlife

>>109897

>go into woods

>strip naked

>get drunk

>place plastic bag over head

>pass out

>no more cares

it's that simple, but something tells me you think too highly of yourself to cause your own eternal extinction

At the very least you'll simply be forced back into the reincarnation hopper, at worst you will be assigned a new fate and you will be forced to accept it.

>>110098

I don't get why do you have to strip naked

>>110126

It facilitates hypothermia which is more likely to occur if your blind drunk/unconscious.

It is a traditional suicide method in cold climates to drink heavily then take a long walk in the freezing weather without a coat on.

Death should not be courted. Life is not something to be so simply thrown away. If a persons life has become meaningless it only means that the cirvumstance they are in is not worthy of their force.

Break the mental chains and excape to that vwich properly challenges the soul.

vud related: proper channeling of adverse energies

>>109897

There's a few major arguments that folk like to throw around with taking one's own life. Honestly, at this point it's archetypal.

1) "You're a coward. You're a god and you're afraid of living a simple human life. How silly, how droll, how stupid." You can't muster the personal willpower and strength to live a difficult human life and must retreat to a plane where you are 'stronger' to cope. Effectively, if you made a deal with something on the other side you probably lost. There's a chance a small level of ridicule could follow.

2) "Violence against one's self is the highest form of rejection of God/Source/YHWH/Whatever's love. This form of violence must be cleansed from you as impurities are cleansed from ore." Generally a route of the religious and devout. Taking one's life is denying a specific gift that was given to you (as to them experiencing Malkuth is a gift but hey, ya can't have a tree without roots eh?)

3) Nothing. Nothing happens. Nothing bad, nor good. Suicide was part of your original plan when entering the human body as to leave a bit earlier to take care of a few points of unfinished business on the physical plane. Generally for reincarnation folk, it would be like picking up a specific level of 'weight' or losing 'weight' in order to float or sink to the level you need to go next.

Which is it, ya wonder? Well, I can't tell you. Mainly because I'm not you. I can't be you. And if, for some odd reason, I am actually you in some random timeline hop I am completely separate from myself. So pick an option that feels most appropriate and deal with the consequences later.

>>109910

Holy shit literally anything can be justified with this type of thinking

>>110246

>anything can be justified with this type of thinking

Not suicide or killing for personal gain or pleasure, stealing, sadism etc.

The consequences which is suffering on the other hand, can most likely be explained by karma from committing those acts and causing retribution against the person.

But the main point people tend to miss is that "helping" other people is probably also a bad thing unless you are encouraging them to endure and to handle their own problems. Since problems come from the negative karma created by the person's own doing, you are disturbing the natural function of the universe if you help someone solve their problems mindlessly, because it is THEIR karma created by them, it's not your business to get involved in.

And yes that includes treating illnesses for no reason or giving people stuff to make their lives easier for a reason not taking morality into consideration.

Hedonism is not a valid reason and it isn't "good" either, you're not a good person for making someone else's life easier, and that includes killing yourself because other people see your existence as a problem.

Maybe you're supposed to be a problem for them to they can suffer and pay back faster.

My best friend wasn't technically a suicide but he did momentarily die of a drug overdose as a teenager.

Fortunately EMT's were able to bring him back to life.

Being a young dumb fuck Christ fag at the time I asked him what he saw if anything while dead.

His response?

"Nothing, blackness".

So ultimately I believe my best friend over Near Death Experience "I saw Jesus!" or I went to Hell!" buy my book for $29.99 and read all about it!!" 15 minutes of fame seeking bullshitters any day of the fuckin week, month or year.

He saw nothing because there is nothing.

Dying just puts you back into the same state you were in before your father nutted you into existance.

So don't let Christ fags or other religious cuck bullshitters scare monger any of you into believing otherwise.

BTW, incase anyone wonders later in life I became an agnostic atheist.

Despite believing my friend's story it still took me a while to kick the Christ fag brainwashing.

>>110251

he was just mostly dead, and mostly dead is slightly alive

>>110251

*tips*

>>110251

>when you realize nothing is something

>when you understand you just got confirmation he saw a void in the astral

heh

also you gotta think deeper about this man, why are you here, why are you this very specific bit of consciousness experiencing your particular life, and not any other? There's obviously a process whereby your spirit came to possess this mind and body.

Also you're in the stage 2 of 3 that montalk talks about where you reject basic bitch religion and then end up in atheism or satanism before eventually rejecting that bullshit too and coming to a greater understanding

>>110251

Yeah, you know everyone sees what is relevant to them?

Ozzy Osbourne also said he expected to see angels but it was all black when he crashed his 4 wheeler and almost broke his neck (or whatever it was). That doesn't mean other people didn't see hell or jesus or their lives passing in front of their eyes.

Maybe you can say, since your friend took a drug overdose and Ozzy has been doing lots of drugs, seeing only blackness may be related to drug use.

>>109897

They become public servants in the afterlife.

>>110251

>some person claims no memory of an afterlife while he was alive

>checkmake christfags

You could have at least made a logical argument to try to show that existence after biological braindeath is logically impossible. This anecdote is less than worthless.

can someone please give me definite proof of an afterlife so i dont kill myself

HELL

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(location)

Check it out you dim little shits.

This is what the Jews ripped off to create their "Hell" mythology for the Buy Bull.

So don't be afraid.

Put that shotgun in your mouth and self terminate if that is your desire.

There's no afterlife eternal Israeli Mossad torture chamber where Yahweh and Yeshua (Boozus) are going to sodomize and burn you forever for not kissing their sick psychopathic Jewish asses sufficiently while alive.

>>110285

Why would the Jews rip anything off of the Germanic culture?

The Jews had the concept Sheol, which was the equivalent to the Greek concept of the underworld (ruled by Hades).

Not really up to date on my Mythology, correct me if I'm wrong pl0x.

>>110266

Goddamn right Christ fags were checkmated (at least to my own personal satisfaction anyway).

And I fully realize that since this is my own "account" or rather "story" of events I witnessed in my own life that its just another tale on the internet that people can choose to believe or not for themselves.

Thus your demand that I prove something beyond a shadow of a doubt is unreasonable at best and assholish at worst.

And before any Christ fags begin saying my friend was in the Biblical area of Hell known as "The outer darkness" that hypothesis would be horse shit since he did not report hearing anything and the Buy Bull specifically says when you're in the outer darkness you hear "wailing and gnashing of teeth".

His recollection was basically the same as Jon Snow's in the GOT's HBO series when Melisandre asks him what he saw while dead and he answered:

"There was nothing, there was nothing at all."

The next time I get to speak to my friend I'm going to ask him to clarify things for me further as its quite possible he simply used the term "blackness" as a stand in for "nothingness" which is a very real possibility as at the time when we were young I put him on the spot to basically tell me what he saw quickly and that is likely just the word he came up with in the moment where many other similar words could fit the description perhaps even better/more accurately such as the word "nothingness" or "void" or "emptiness" etc.

Again Christ fags were BTFO from my perspective as my best friend led just about as sinful a life as you could possibly imagine.

He was and is what our wizard/robot friends would deem a "turbo mega Chad" fucking, whoring, boozing, drugging and pilling his way through life and getting in nonstop trouble with the law to the point he had multiple stays in juvenile detention facilities and eventually landed in a bootcamp as a last scare you straight measure before they finally say fuck it and just send you off to Nigger University or rather you become old enough for them to do so.

Amazingly my friend is white and not a nigger and yet his life story basically mirrors that of most niggers ie grew up without a father in his life and was raised by a combination of mostly his grandparents but with some minor raising here and there by a single mother who had her own drug and alcohol problems.

Before I digress further what I'm basically getting at is if Christ insanity is in any way true my friend should've experienced the fires and torments of hell for the brief period that he was clinically dead or if not that at least heard wailing and gnashing of teeth being placed in a literal hell's "outer darkness" realm but nothing of the sort happened to him.

You could say "I" was blessed with a first hand account of someone I trust fully to tell me the truth about his life whereas the rest of you just have a series of agenda pushing losers, liars and 15 minutes of fame seekers telling you one thing or another about a supposed afterlife.

>>110286

After Jews and the race traitor Charlemagne mass murdered enough of the white pagan leadership to force Christ insanity on the freshly subJEWgated/conquered remaining white pagan masses they still had trouble fully forcing the Christ cult onto whites.

Thus they had to allow a large amount of pagan beliefs into the new cult that would train white men to believe a false Jewish god named Jesus was their new true god over their actual true god Odin.

Allowing bits of paganism here and there in this scenario is like the old saying about honey or some such ie "it helps the poison go down".

This is why the Catholic church gets so dogged on by fundamentalist Christians and other hardcore Jesus freaks ie it is the oldest form of Christ insanity around and thus has the most original white pagan concepts attached to it ie the prayers to the saints is just a ripoff/co option of white pagan ancestor worship.

There's plenty of other things you can find all about Catholicism's pagan co-option if you become interested in that sort of thing most of which is posted up all over the craziest Christian sites around such as the frightening jesusislord fanatical Christian website.

>>110290

>>110291

I shall examine these matters and hear you again at later time concerning these things…

>>110290

I assumed your story is true and I don't believe in an afterlife. However your story and accompanying opinion/interpretation is so banally asinine that it can't even disprove heaven or hell let alone a God.

Once again the premises you're missing are something along the lines of "biological HEART malfunction implies extinction of consciousness" (strong naturalism) which would be unverifiable or a contrapositive like "a person with a temporary heart failure will always experience and remember some afterlife if such an afterlife exists" which there is no reason to affirm.

I'm sure you were only pretending, but these kinds of ideas are not uncommon among those who have no training in or intuition for logic. It would be more helpful to just say "I am a strong naturalist" and be done with it.

>>109897

Do it faggot, it's the only way you'll know

>>110266

A biblical disagreement would be something along the lines of saying that a "near death experience" is not the same thing as dying.

I think that is safe to say, right? That a "near death experience" is not the same thing as dying?

>>110307

I suspect the late David Lane may of been correct to refer to the concept of god as "the motive force in the universe" as in like you said there may be "something" out there that is responsible for all of this but if that is so I believe "it" is not an anthropological human like entity or force that we can ever fully understand.

At the same time I also wonder if many of the users on wizchan are correct in their conclusion that if a god exists it is an evil false god known as the Demiurge that somehow hides the true and righteous god from us.

The Demiurge hypothesis would certainly make sense for the world we see around us and the general bad character of the people within it.

Anyway an excerpt of David Lane's writing is below that I found particularly fascinating on the subject.

http://www.davidlane1488.com/whywotan.html

However, modern White folk do not accept that God is so insecure that he will torture mortals eternally if they don't spend every 7th day telling him how great he is. The motive force of the entire Universe did not turn himself into a mortal man in order to have himself killed by mortal men, in order to keep himself from eternally torturing mortal men. The God of Nature is not irrational. Neither is God composed of some emotion called love as New agers and Judeo-Christians teach.

The Creator made lions to eat lambs, hawks to eat sparrows, and the races of man to compete for life, territory and power. There is no love, just harsh, ruthless, pitiless, Natural Law. The New Testament is a religion of "afterlife" and the selfishness of personal "salvation." The Old Testament is about the reality of this life on this earth. The philosophy of the Old Testament helped Jews conquer the world and get the power to sentence the White race to death. It teaches taking power, wealth and women, with cunning and force. Its philosophy will benefit any race or people. Aryans followed the New Testament and may soon be an extinct specie. No more needs be said!!! Nonetheless, a religion for White Folk is a vital necessity."

>>110308

In truth he was probably just a bored sociopath looking to get a rise out of people.

The smothering grandma story could be real or could be bullshit as far as you, I or anyone knows.

What should bother you however as a presumed Christian is that if you ever prayed for this guy to change and "get saved" so to speak by becoming a Christian also that he apparently did not and thats especially true if you prayed for him in agreement with other believers that he be saved and become a Christian as well.

Jesus literally promised you that whatever you agreed with another believer about would be done for you and if you've ever agreed with another believer in prayer about something and it didn't happen for you then you need to rethink whether Christianity is real or not and whether you're not just wasting your time to continue on with it.

Matthew 18:19 Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

>>110296

At this point you're just being a rancid asshole.

Listen to me.

NOTHING can prove to a true believer™ that there is no Jesus/Yahweh or afterlife.

You could put the fucker in the most rigorous scientific setting imaginable that would satisfy your particular standards along with any actual scientists that something conclusive would be proven about the afterlife's existance or lackthereof from say an experiment where the believer was killed and brought back to life and left dead for long enough that it would again satisfy everyone's scientific hard on that you'd be getting real data on a person who was dead, dead, DEAD and not just another "near death" experiencer.

So yeah experiment happens.

You bring this guy back.

And in this hypothetical scenario he ALSO sees nothing like my friend.

You and the scientists are then convinced beyond a shadow of all doubt there is no afterlife but then a strange thing happens.

You ask this Christian experiment volunteer who was just killed and revived what "he" thinks about his experience and his reply is strange and confusing to you:

Christian: Well even though I saw nothing that doesn't prove Jesus/Yahweh/Heaven/Hell don't exist as for all I or the rest of you know god may of just deemed that it wasn't my time or humanity's time to be given conclusive proof of these things so for all we know god may of put a proverbial veil over my eyes/mind's eye and made it seem as if there was nothing.

So to conclude.

There's literally no way to 1000% prove the idea religion in general has planted in the public mind that there is an afterlife is real or fake.

Believers can always find some sort of loophole to keep on believing.

Fortunately however many of the religions themselves can be proven false via examining their promises and seeing how they don't come true or pointing out the contradictions or absurdities in the supposed holy "god inspired" books.

Books that are supposed to be of utter "perfection" having been supposedly authored by god through the vessel of men.

Well a perfect god being cannot do something imperfect thus any holy book having anything to do with such a being should not be rifled with contradictions as the Buy Bull is as just one example.

>>110335

What does this mean, anon?

>"The smothering grandma story"

>>110335

>Jesus literally promised you that whatever you agreed with another believer about would be done for you and if you've ever agreed with another believer in prayer about something and it didn't happen for you then you need to rethink whether Christianity is real or not and whether you're not just wasting your time to continue on with it.

Clearly, which is why I am not a "bible-believer". Those are words written down by men.

>>110339

Regarding Christianity:

I find that a person reaches a point of maturity in Christianity, or possibly also in a plain old relationship with God, where they come to the conclusion that the "right the to do" and the most altruistic thing is to depart from that sort of dogma and depart from the Bible.

>>110334

Sometimes I think about the "demiurge" hypothesis and I fall in love with the good and the potential that exists among us.

>>110336

idk what is going on in this thread or what you're responding to and have to actually read the conversation itt but I want to interject

We can prove a lot about the afterlife by.

1. Knowing the self.

2. Study of consciousness and its transferance from one body to another.

3. Study of the structure of reality.

Also I'd like to say, you should expect only 5% of people to come back with reports of the afterlife, because only 5% of people are real people. The rest are biological robots.

>>110342

>the good and the potential that exists among us

Too bad that it has no place in this miserable existence

>>110344

>idk what is going on in this thread

tl:dr

>OP asks if killing himself will be bad

>gets different replies on the afterlife

>atheist posts walls of text about his friend who almost died and didn't have a NDE

>takes this as proof the afterlife isn't real and repeats the same argument for several days

>>110351

>ADD tard enters thread

>As per his condition he doesn't read and find out whats going on.

>ADD tard leaves thread confused.

>Lather, rinse, repeat

>>110338

Scroll up to the user who has a Hitler picture posted next to his post, anon.

Within his post he talks about a (potential) sociopath he knew that once claimed to of smothered his own grandmother with a pillow and then claimed that to this day his family believe she died of natural causes.

In the story the grandmother was already severely ill and on the brink of death which is probably why that if the story is true the (potential) sociopath's family believed him.

>>110308

Is that guy the fucking devil?

The second post I mean

>>109897

They die. Then, perhaps, they rest until judgement day, or wait in purgatory until that date.

>>110335

>Matthew 18:19 Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

It would mean that if the act is selfless. If you pray selfishly, only you will pray for the thing to happen to you.

we are cursed to stay among you

If you think that suicide is self-focused and selfish, you have ALOT of

introspection to do.

What is it then called when you buy a new car, or a house, or

new clothes, or all that man-made crap? Not everyone around the world

has those luxuries. Why not quit your job so someone who has less money

than you can have it to make ends? No, you can't. So that is then also

selfish.

My point: to say that suicide is selfish is to say that nearly every act we do is selfish.

If

I want to become a doctor today, no one would call me selfish or think

it's an odd choice in life. But then what if in 5 years, I change my

mind? Nothing. It was something I pursued and didn't enjoy (or ended for

whatever reason) and I moved on with my life endeavors. But at that current time, becoming a

doctor was the right choice for me. This philosophy applies to a suicidal

person and their decision to end their life as well. In their current mindset, death was the right choice for

them. The only difference is that there is no turning back. That is

unfortunate, but at the end of the day, we all must do what we need to

do to be happy. Some people do drugs. Some have sex more times than they change underwear in a given week.

Some steal. Some give generously to the community. We all find ways to

please ourselves and do what we think is best. Don't bash on someone else's methods for attaining happiness

because you wouldn't like it if someone criticized yours.

To a depressed person, the idea of

death, and being dead, will make them feel good. It is an end to their

suffering.

Frankly, it is selfish to expect someone to live a life they do not desire to live.

Oh,

and ever hear that saying "having children is selfish because you are

doing it to fulfill your own needs and desires"? Let's face it: that's

true. Why do people have children for? … Got pregnant and don't want an

abortion for viewing it as murder? Well, you are doing it just to keep

your conscious clear, not suffer guilt. Pretty damn selfish to me. … Trying to save a

relationship? Selfish … A way to get money out of the government or

your partner? Selfish … Just doing it because you love your partner

and you want to create life? Heck, that is selfish because you are

looking for a way to fill your own interests. … The only way it would not be selfish is to say: "I am going to have a child because the child wants to be born, will love this world and appreciate all that there is to offer." No one says that because it is impossible to predict how the child will perceive the world. And you can't tell that the cild would want to be born, Ms Cleo. … And if you do have that mentality, you are living in one extremely small, ignorant, and delusional bubble.

So what is selfish?

People

need to start doing some introspection into not only their lives,

but human beings as a whole before they start throwing around a word

they cannot even fully grasp.

And at the end of the day, we all die.

Whether you die in 20 years, 20 weeks, or 20 minutes, we all die. Death

is inevitable. All a suicidal person is doing is speeding the process.

Again, seems less selfish than someone who buys a new pair a shoes when

they already have 2, a new car when the one they have functions

properly, or that latest cellphone or computer you are currently reading

this comment on even though there are people starving around the world

who don't even know what a computer screen looks like.

I understand where the concept of the "selfish" crap starts. It's because it leaves heartache for those left behind. But here is a little rule to live by: You cannot sit down living your life just to satisfy others. At the end of the day, you need to do what is best for you. … Oh, now that I write it, something comes to mind. And let's all face it … We have ALL heard this line before: "Don't stay in a relationship just for the children. You deserve to be happy/treated properly/be loved" or whatever crap comes at the end of that last sentence. Would you say someone who wants to separate from their partner selfish? You cannot imagine how many times I've read online about people wanting to separate or get a divorce and commentors reply with the "don't stay if you are unhappy/ for the children" line. Never once heard someone say that was selfish. Never. Ever. Ever. Why would you call them that? All they want is to be happy … as does a suicidal person who wants to die and finally find peace.

I just took 10 minutes to open your mind. … You're welcome!

>>110474

Humans are selfish, don't delude yourself.

Is suicide really so bad? If nothing means anything there shouldn't be anything to worry about, right?

>>109899

don't listen to this globalist satan worshipping cunt. this is fear mongering playing on your fears of reincarnation or "incarnation anxiety". this type of fear based negative reinforcement is exactly the type of thing they want you to believe so that you feel trapped and afraid constantly. they want to make you a prisoner of your own mind. this is what the globalist satan worshipping cucks are all about.

when you die, no matter how you die, you go to be with God. God is love.

I'm not saying anyone should ever kill themselves, but God didn't just create everyone to leave them in hell "life" forever.

>>109909

more atheist satanist globalist bullshit

notice how ahteists both don't believe in God, but at the same time believe in God just enough to hate God. globalist satanic cucks are the same as atheists.

>>109910

look at this satanic shill trying to spoonfeed you self limiting beliefs. this is what they actually want you to believe. they actually get sexually turned on by making people get brainwashed.

>>109911

they are really this desperate to make us all believe this.

>>109972

when you die, God takes you. you're safe. end of story. everything else is a lie.

>>109980

>he went through an acid door and there was a scream "ahhhh"

you made me spill my coffee. these satanic atheist globalist cult cuckholds will tell you ANYTHING to get you to be afraid and feel trapped in your own mind. should you kill yourself? NO! what's the point if you're going to die eventually just like everyone else in history? but you can't think like this because it's all a bunch of self limiting lies.

when you die, no matter how you die, no matter who you are, no matter what you did, God takes you, and you're with God. God fixes any problems you have, and wipes you clean of all evil. you're safe, and you're with God. it's pure love.

you can't blame shitty imperfect humans for being dumped into a shitty crazy world surrounded by other shitty crazy people who went insane for becoming shitty and crazy and insane as a direct result of your environment. people who stay nice are just exceptionally strong souls. God created us all to experience this, and then go home. end of story.

>>109982

more satanic propaganda.

>destroy your individuality

>erase your mind and all your memories

>but then you're somebody else

if you erase your memories how do you know that you didn't just come back as exactly yourself? fucking pile of bullshit lies.

there's only one dream and it's this life, and when God decides to wake you up, you go home.

>>109983

this is nothing but spooky bullshit fear mongering.

all the bad guys in the world function based off of lies and fear based negative reinforcement, and all seek to trap you within their own mind because they beLIEve that it generates loosh or energy for them, even though it doesn't

>>119092

*within your own mind

>>109984

it all depends on what your definition of "wants" and "needs" are. if we really had everything we needed, we wouldn't feel the way we do and the would would be a much better place.

>>110075

earth is the only hell that exists.

>>110119

why does everyone get sexually turned on by playing on peoples fears of incarnation anxiety? "haha you don't like life so you're gonna have to do it again hahahahhaah" is basically what you and all these other jackasses are spouting all the time.

humans have a bad habit of finding what bothers someone, searching for their deepest and darkest fears, even if they are total bullshit, and then using that psychology against them. usually for shits and giggles because humans have a weird sadistic side, or because they feel they win something by doing it.

at the end of it all

it's all bullshit

>>110251

christ shit is total brainwashing, and is literally the other side of a satanic cult, jesus is literally satan- BUT, just because your friend saw nothing doesn't mean that there is nothing. for these reasons I say this:

1. not everyone remembers what they saw

2. God may not have let them remember because heaven is too beautiful to remember and come back with the memories of. it makes life painful to live knowing you're not there.

3. it wasn't their actual "moment" when they were going to die, and therefor weren't shown anything.

>>110262

>reference to sleep

where? there's no word "sleep"

>>110263

nice reference to that one movie. funny joke.

>>119100

I think it was called "RIPD" rest in peace/police department

>>110282

is life not enough proof of the hell we are already in? don't kill yourself, but have hope in knowing that we are all with God and when we die we are safe in the loving embrace of God.

>>110334

>At the same time I also wonder if many of the users on wizchan are correct in their conclusion that if a god exists it is an evil false god known as the Demiurge that somehow hides the true and righteous god from us.

you think some punk-ass demiurge would have the power to cock-block God? you must be so stupid. I'm not even trying to insult you but you are a dumbass if you think that anything has the power to stand up to the one and only God. the demiurge is nothing be a literature-based manifestation of people's fears and power inadequacies compared to God. they can't handle that God is in control so they become devil worshippers because they feel they need to become the rebellious underdogs to "fight the powah" because their minds are too small to comprehend that God is infinitely stronger and bigger and better than them, but also simultaneously good.

>>110336

you and OP, and everyone else in this thread

>>109897

need to read

This

HIGHLY relevant.

https://mewch.net/fringe/res/2736.html

>>119106

>>119106

great pic. i like it. more?

>>119094

*and the world would be a much better place

>>109982

>If you give up yourself; you gain everything. This is kind of the secret or renunciation and of yoga. This is also the secret of immortality.

agreed…

>>110251

>he blacked out from doing drugs

>saw nothing

>therefore there is nothing

>>119220

>wife shaves head to sell hair to wig maker to buy chain for husbands pocket watch

>husband sells pocket watch to buy comb for wifes hair

understand? give yourself up and there will be no one there to enjoy what you have gained.

As someone who generally wastes all his time and is inevitably going to kill himself, is it worth bothering to try to do anything in the meantime before I do it? It would seem like a waste if I got good at something when I'm going to kill myself sooner or later anyway.

>>119882

Why don't you learn positive thinking?

>>119882

There's always good to be done. What's the point of doing nothing? If you aren't going to pursue anything in the meantime then a sooner suicide would be self Mercy

>>119885

I've spent too long being negative, any attempt to try being positive would just be lying to myself. Besides, this world/reality is absolutely nothing to be positive about.

>>119886

I've done nothing all my life, I don't really have it in me to do good or ill. All I manage to do is be a passive detriment to those around me. It would probably be better to kill myself sooner to save everyone the trouble of dealing with me, I just haven't got around to it yet, that's all.

>>119888

this doesn't make sense at all. Why would an attempt beeing positive lying to yourself? Because you decide it. If you decide that an attempt trying to be positive would be beeing honest to yourself, cause you have been negative for so long, than it would be honest. Besides, this worl/reality is the one you created, so destroy it and built one you like which brings you love and joy!

Just begin to make yourself responsible, don't cry about how others may feel about you and don't be this arrogant thinking you would take a burden from them if you commited suicide!

>>119888

"I need to die. I'm such a bad friend, a bad person, I hate myself! I could barely stand going out in public on Sunday, because I came to realise how absolutely ugly I am. Poor mirrors, poor people who have to look at me.

I'm so stupid and confused. My eyes never stop tearing. I have no chance. I'm a horrible friend, horrible. I don't deserve friends, the wonderful people who include me in stuff must be reincarnations of Gandhi to have to put up with ugly, horrible, freakish me.

There are people there, but am I distancing myself from them? Why am I this way, why am I so sad all the time? I have a happy mask, but lately it's been broken, beyond repair, will I ever get it back?

I told my friend part of what was wrong. Am I hallucinating? Am I right? Who's going to be there to answer all these stupid questions I'm asking myself?!

I feel alone even with my friends. I feel like I'm perpetually on the verge of tears. Loneliness and tears can make a person feel in ways they don't normally. I usually try to be a happy person but lately…

Oh well, I should just shut up, there are people with far worse problems than mine."

http://www.wombtwin.com/wtsstories-die/4580529150

>>119891

I've been depressed for more of my life than I haven't, and I've long since lost the ability to believe in there being anything positive about myself or this world. So I'm totally hopeless. The only good thing about this life for me is that it eventually ends and my only hope is that I don't ever have to experience it again, but I'm sure I'll be disappointed on that front.

>Besides, this worl/reality is the one you created

How is that so? Did I create all the world events that took place before I was born? Will the world end when I die?

What are some /fringe/ approved suicide methods?

>>119932

Mahasalami

>>119932

drowning in a lake

>>109901

It's not punishment meted out by some cosmic father-figure you dummy, it's just the nature of your condition. Giving in to suffering in a manner such as suicide is horribly damaging to your soul.

>>109972

God can only do something if you accept Him as your Lord and Savior. That's why we have the Church.

>>120016

Countless souls have been irrevocably damaged/broken by being incarnated into and experiencing this world/reality. Suicide is not a big deal in that regard.

>>120018

>jesus knocks on someones door

>"let me in"

>why- the person inside asks

>"because I need to save you"

>from what? asks the person inside

>"from what I'm going to do to you if you don't let me in and pay the church money" says jesus

>the person inside doesn't open the door

>the person inside is smart!

JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

religion is a scam. worship only GOD!! the one and only GOD!

>>120027

hey just a pro tip: there's lots of suffering but the soul itself can't get hurt or damaged. when pass on (however it may be that God takes us) God cleans us up with pure love and we feel better again even if we lived through hell.

>>120038

If that's the case, what's the point of living this life to begin with? Just to be a plaything for God's amusement? I subscribe to the notion that God doesn't give two shits about this world or anything in it, that at least makes more sense.

>>120042

basically God created the sun, the moon, and the stars "and it was good" but it was not good for humanity, it was good for the purpose that God had for humanity.

basically this matrix false reality is designed to be bad on purpose because we are all meant to have these experiences.

about 100 years of hell, and then an eternity of pure endless joy, love, happiness, orgasmic bliss, and many more senses we don't even know about yet. hurts now but is definitely a fair trade long term.

>>120046

>we are all meant to have these experiences.

Why is that? What benefit are they to us? What is the purpose of this life if the slate gets wiped clean after we die, if not to be a plaything for God's amusement?

>>120060

here is a great example:

God had foreknowledge and may have had impact on Eve and Adam's decision to eat the forbidden fruit.

God may have set them up to eat the forbidden fruit, just the same way Pharoah was told to release the slaves but then "hardened Pharoah's heart" so Pharoah couldn't let them go.

the fact that Eve did not know the difference between Good and Evil when she ate the forbidden fruit is very paradoxical, since She and Adam literally had no way of knowing that disobedience was a bad thing. They are technically being punished for doing evil when they specifically didn't know what evil was or that eating the forbidden fruit was wrong other than the fact that they were told not to eat it, but that goes back to the fact that they had no way of knowing that disobedience was a bad thing… The question is why? To learn? Are we meant to learn here on earth? Does this experience exist because we are supposed to learn what it is and know what is good and bad and avoid what is bad so that we may be distinctly good? it's becoming clear that everything is planned.

technically speaking this life we are living in is a metaphorical bite through the apple of the knowledge of good and evil in slow motion. we are learning the difference between good and evil so that we can willingly and knowingly reject evil and choose good. yes, there are some grey areas but I'm sure you can score a "you tried" and still be forgiven because you can't expect to put a good seed in bad dirt and expect it to grow healthy so it's not your fault if everything goes wrong and you fuck up over and over and never win anything or improve but the point is to try. the very fact that you try to be the best you can be and strive for perfection in a perfectionless world, the fact that you WANT to choose good, and fail even- is what God wants to see. you WANT good.

The more I learn about it, the more the entire concept of "life" seems like it's not even a real thing

>>120124

look up these translations

>matrix = womb

>apocalypse = lifting of the veil

>renaissance = rebirth

>>120109

It seems like you can't see how disingenuous this whole setup is and that's kinda sad. Does an all-powerful god really need to put the likes of us through the wringer for its own amusement? I think maybe you just like being a plaything too much.

>>120161

I'm no fool. I know that God could choose to just zap all the knowledge and memories into our minds and make us well and I wish that God would just do that so that we didn't have to suffer anymore. it does suck to have to wait, but I'll just have to wait then. doesn't stop me from praying every day that it will end.

>>120165

If you know that God won't help us now why do you expect to be helped later? Is it that hard to accept that God either doesn't exist or doesn't care about us (functionally the same thing)? And according to your post, doesn't that make this life just about waiting for death which is when things get infinitely better for us?

>>120166

as I mentioned in this post

>>120109

I think we are supposed to experience this and try to choose to want to want to choose God, good, over everything else.

basically the experience is like about rejecting bad and picking to want good, and wanting to pick good. even if we fail, the fact is that we are trying and we want to do the right thing. I absolutely hate life, 100% honest. it's miserable and depressing but I try my best anyways. I don't think we have a choice and I don't believe in free will the way that other people define it. all that being said, 100 years of hell is a small price to pay for eternity. love, bliss, everything good, everything RIGHT, FOREVER. (and none of that "but you get tired of it eventually BS" it just keeps getting better forever so it's never stale)

so don't get me wrong or anything, I'm suffering immensely just by existing here but I'm not mad at God or anything. I should be, technically speaking, but the real truth is that I know that God is good and I really shouldn't be, and am not in anger or blame towards God. it's complicated, but I know it's going to all be not just okay, but better than wonderful in the end.

as for now though, I have no mouth and I must scream.

>>120169

Where do you get 100 years from? That's a rather arbitrary number. Do you think it takes that long for this good and evil training process to be completed?

>>120227

Pretty sure they mean the life span of a human by 100 years

>>120240

this it's about human lifespan is what is being said.

Are there any rituals or anything that can change my destination after suicide? Like maybe become a ghost or a demon or something.

>>120310

>I made it in

Nice!

>>120240

>>120288

So how does suicide affect that then?

>>120325

>So how does suicide affect that then?

I don't advocate suicide and anyone who wants to do that should seek help. I'm not judging I'm just saying seek help. I'm not a doctor or a mental health professional. spiritually speaking in my personal opinion, I believe that God controls everything and that even free will isn't technically 100% real since

>God created everything

>God controls everything

>God created the concept of free will because the idea appeared in the minds of humanity

>since God created free will, and God created humanity, God controls free will and God controls humanity

what this means is that everything that has ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen (especially since time is fake and we all live in the matrix -again my opinion) is COMPLETELY controlled by God. everyone has their time and place when they will go and we all hope that we can die peacefully of old age in our sleep or something gentle and peaceful along those lines, but it's not the same for everyone. nobody really knows how they're going to get "taken by God" into the great beyond/ heaven. you could argue philosophically speaking that even suicides are technically speaking pre-ordained by God and that just how long they were supposed to last on earth.

you can apply the example in (not the same way) but a very similar way when you look at all the babies and young children who die on earth every day from accidents, illness, and starvation to name a few reasons people pass on. some sections of christianity believe that innocent and ignorant babies just go straight to hell and suffer forever for some pretty vague and stupid reasons. I don't agree with that at all. I believe that everyone goes when they go because God decides every single event that takes place and people get taken into heaven and cleaned of all their obvious and non-obvious problems and illnesses and become pure-good and then stay with God in heaven forever. (many people have trouble accepting this and giving God credit for everything that happens because it's a difficult thing to accept especially when you have been a victim or a witness to something horrible)

I believe that the current state in which this reality we live in exists, is unnatural. I believe that Heaven/God/Eternity true freedom and origin is the "real reality" and the true natural state of being.

Quantum Immortality: you die on this fractal of the universe, but you continue to live on others and there will be at least one fractal where you live until the your intended death date.

>>109901

>That seems unjust

It's because it is unjust; too much time would be wasted if what anon was saying actually were true. This current instance of reality is not the only instance. And anon isn't even taking into consideration suicide for purposes of the martyrdom; too many holes in his theory.

>>109910

>If you are here it means you accepted the terms

This I agree with, but the terms being broken doesn't mean that there is a punishment; the terms continue as the universe is infinitely fractalised.

>>109925

>Why do beings want to trick you into reincarnating?

Because physicality results in suffering, and suffering results in understanding of what is of low quality/standard, and understanding that results in development on those areas, as well as a development in spiritual strength.

I would go as far to say that suicide may be the only true option for a certain kind of man in our age. This world is fucked up and for a man who only suffers here, who does not feel home here, who can see the degeneracy and corruption rising and rising in this world…to keep on living and trying to survive would only betray his own values and his own goodness and truth. Such a man might simply refuse to participate here and in his mind proclaim that he is too good for this shit, and he rather leave this plane than betray his own values and honor. Maybe such a man came here by mistake, maybe he was tricked, or maybe he just came to test himself if he is so true to himself that he can say no and leave again. The door out is always open, nobody must stay in this club if they don't like it

>>120940

thats certainly how i feel, but really i dont wish to die, i want for this world to not be a complete crapsack. i am angry because it could be such a wonderful place.

>>121100

Child of the one and true monad don't let your own thoughts deceive you. This exact reasoning will bring you hell. This world can never be a wonderful place during your lifetime. It is by design a hostile environment full of suffering. And even when the so called "golden-age" would be real, it would not happen anytime soon. And it would fade away again. By buddhists and gnostics alike this reality is recognized as huge bullshit.

There are the astral planes, several various heavenly and otherwise magnificent realm that are one million times better than this earth we live in. You can go there and be free. Will you really let your own attachment to this earth keep you trapped in this hell?

Your longing for life here and for a good earth is an illusion that will never be possible.

Thou shalt neither be attracted to this shithole, nor be repulsed by it. Remove all attachments and set thyself free.

You don't have to suicide btw, you can always undertake experiments like joining a monastery or becoming homeless if you really don't want to die. The most important part is that you realize your error in mind and release the attachments.

No anger, no hate. You can be perfectly aware that this world is shit, but don't let emotions cloud your perception. Gnostics and Buddhist all know that this world is suffering and all of them want to be free. You be like them, strive for Gnosis, strive for Enlightenment. Or else you will never leave.

>>121112

are you certain the world is destined to be lousy? is this world not hellish largely in part by the deliberate efforts of immoral opportunistic liars?

people are forced to tolerate such systems as they claim to provide solutions. either protection against other such predatory people, or from problems they themselves perpetuate. thats certainly a design of sorts but it is man-made.

>>121114

It can't be helped. Even if all people would work together and were friendly, still pain would be here, and death, harsh forces of nature and dangerous elements and negative spirits etc etc.

But even now, forces are at work that make an utopia impossible. No human can fight against those forces.

Only you can liberate yourself, and you can only liberate yourself. Flee while you can.

You can always come back later and reincarnate when such a "golden age" is here, but know that this will pass too, and even during the golden age there will be suffering. This is the curse of the material, physical plane. And even if it was a golden age, it could not compare to the absulote magnificence of the heavenly realm of the astral planes.

>>121114

>immoral liars

>evil exists

yeah about that…

Suffering is not evil. Every person chooses their own fate, whether they realize it or not; or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the fate creates the person, and a change in the fate would cause the person to dissipate and be replaced by an alternative version. Even if fate does determine life in this way, fate would determine whether a person has free will or not, and whether they would act in their own interest or not; so acting to better yourself in the face of suffering is a sign of fate.

Or the alternative; to react to suffering by bringing more suffering upon yourself. Perhaps that is the closest thing to evil that could exist; intentional self mutilation. But it isn't really evil, any more than a cow that falls off a cliff is evil; that's just natural selection.

>>121119

even if everything is set in stone before we observe it for ourselves we still have to play the part. the spoilers of humanity dont deserve a break just because they are acting from an all encompassing script. if that is the case no one should react to anything.

Depending on the method used, pretty much the same as what happens to everyone else. If a slow method, then your senses will shut down one by one, til all are gone, and your awareness withdraws within. You will then become aware of the dance of the two spheres in the lunar and solar channels, they will eventually merge, a bright flash, and you will be outside the body, connected by a thread of light. The thread will shatter, a portal will open, a suction will draw you in, you will hurtle through a long tunnel, be ejected into a white light that will shock the spirit into unconsciousness. When you awaken, you will be a disincarnate entity floating in a luminous void. After some time, being without the body you were addicted to will cause a paroxysm, like being in a floatation tank too long. After that, your formless spirit will begin to build itself an illusory body of sorts that will allow interaction with antarabhava. You will begin to see phantasmagoria akin to what is described in the 'Tibetan Book of the Dead'. Eventually the entire process will culminate in rebirth in heaven world, hell world, earth world, etc. Wherever your destination, sooner or later you will eventually be reborn here, and find yourself in pretty much the same place and situation you were before you did the suicide. The bad news is that suicide is only a temporary reprieve, and not any true escape.

>>109897

>>109897

There is some negative karma attached to suicide, but nowhere near as much as killing someone else. The spiritual fallout is manageable.

>>109910

>you have to lose your "lust for living" in order to achieve enlightenment

This is patent bullshit on par with "you must destroy your ego in order to see higher". Your ego is a part of you, just as you are a part of the all. And if you can't enjoy life and the suffering inherent (all suffering is challenge to be overcame), if you can not enjoy the now then you won't enjoy what comes next.

>>120352

>I believe that God controls everything and that even free will isn't technically 100% real since

Everything follows the 'fingerprint' of the metapattern (father pattern) even our thoughts and actions.. But, the metapattern is absurdly complex to the point that any attempt to visualize it always results in what appears to be pure chaos (though it is orderly, just hyper complex) But, I believe that what free will is is that we have the ability to consciously alter our course through the pattern.

https://sanctionedsuicide.com/threads/sn-resource-page.32633/