No.10425 [View All]
Share your daily struggles and other art-related feels here.
Previous thread:
>>8376
____________________________
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12194
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12213
>be a diagnosed schizoid
>be bigoted as hell
>people and fellow artists sometimes take interest in my work and try to talk to me
>end up pushing them away because of what they draw/who they are and because I'm not comfortable forming any kind of acquaintanceship or friendship
>too emotionally blunted to know how to explain my situation
>everybody ends up thinking I'm an asshole
>probably am
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12214
I wanted to make a manga comic
So I started thinking really hard about what to actually put into the page
And realized it's much harder than you'd imagine
If art has infinite possibilities, a comic has infinite infinities. Basically everything about normal art applies, but you have to do it several times per page, make them all fit into a page, decide on what the characters should say and how/where the scene flows and how they express and what they say in each panel, make it follow a plot and keep the plot engaging without dragging it on or creating unnecessary drawing work… even a small change like changing camera perspective or deciding which panel to make bigger will have a big impact on what the page will look and feel like.
I just thought it was an interesting revelation, which is weird because I've made comics before and never felt like this stuff mattered much, I just drew everything on a whim. Maybe it's the influence of manga which puts much more emphasis on speaking visually. Or maybe it's because I care more about it.
Mildly related but I also find it interesting how manga sometimes puts characters outside panels like pic related to give them a lot of room and focus. I'd have never thought of it myself except for something meta meme-y like a character jumping out of a panel.
>>12213
>no post in 2 and half days
>about to click the send button
>someone else posts
m e m e m a g i c
I lost an acquintance by speaking my mind about some things without really thinking about it. It was only in hindsight I realized that what I said looks really bad in the eyes of people lacking an imageboard-style mindset.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12215
>>12214
Comics arent that complex. Even the page you posted copy and pastes the top left and bottom panel. Changes her mouth and removes highlight from eye. That's it. the roses and sparkles are from clip studio paint and not drawn. Likely the characters are 3d models traced over, as I have identical templates for the dress and hands on face poses.
As this person used very flat angles and ignored the comic book medium completely, it comes off like a tv thumbnail or storyboard. its very easy to make this type of comic, especially with csp. literally everythign you see in manga is traced or pasted from toners.
Too lazy to get some manga pages, but virtually every classroom, building, temple, car, motorcycle, books, shelves, tvs, - everything but the characters - are traced/line art created by csp/pasted toner premade 'art'. And even the characters are a lot of times from 3d models, particularly for slice of life or shojou type stuff.
Take a look at these images from american comics - they are shittier attempts by garbage tier artists that comics use today. That Spider-Man cover's entire background is from google sketchup. It's not drawn. He pasted it on. Spider-man's position is arbitrary and does not match perspective and nowhere for the ledge he is on in New York at that height relative to perspective. Lighting is fucked too. The giant car monster? Those are all sketchup or csp 3d models of cars pasted together on a 3d model of a human. He didnt draw anything for it. The overpass is from sketchup as well. Almost the entire 2 page splash is not drawn by anyone. The other option is photobashing like the Thanos page - take a real image and make it your own background. csp can convert to lineart or you can use photoshop to do it yourself.
Finally, the last image shows some simple composition for guiding readers eye around a page from panel to panel. Your manga page fails at this as the contrast is in the middle with her dress, then to the high contrast white sparkle sfx and then you want to drift to her holding her face when you should be drawn to the top left for sequence. That's bad design, but very quick and easy to plot and layout, which is what most manga do.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12216
Reading about people who hate their own drawings and the process of drawing gives me a lot of joy, I love that negative energy.
>>12214
If you haven't checked out "Framed Ink - Drawing and Composition for Visual Storytellers" you probably should. It explains a lot of stuff that might make you feel that you have a piece of an idea of what you're doing.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12217
>>12215
Fucked up car monster image. The image used has sketchup cities that werent drawn. even the coffee mugs are from sketchup. The car monster i mentioned is in this post. i grabbed some manga pages to show it from that to make up for it - boku no hero academia is popular now and if you look at any chapter, there are maybe 4 panels that have backgrounds in total. rest are just speed lines. that takes little to no time to draw. these images show the handful of backgrounds an issue might have. these trees and rocks? those are from csp or toner assets. its not drawn. not a single leaf or rock is drawn by a human. speed lines arent even drawn either - simple process to add them to a page.
there are very few mangaka that actually do any work. vast majority just follow templates and phone it in week to week. you are giving it way too much credit for difficulty of the average comic/manga.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12219
>>12215
>Comics arent that complex
It's much easier to analyze a page someone else made than it is to make one yourself when you have to think of all the things involved. You have a scene in your head but there's a million and one ways you could possibly present it as a comic, all the different ways characters could react to things and different ways to convey moments and kinds of panel setups or even different scenes that those differences could lend themselves towards.
Take for instance pics related (for context he just left the building where the girl was), I changed the order of the panels and even omitted one but it still works and feels slightly different. And that's just the panel order, I can see several different ways to alter the camera angles and other things in this page. Like imagine if the top panel with the guy standing was full page width, and make it highly detailed with leaves floating about to give it a sort of dramatic feel. Or you could do the same to the building image instead. You could instead have a panel where he's very close to camera in the foreground, maybe head turned back, or maybe his face is cropped off, with the building in the background.
Also the page I posted wasn't a good example of what I was talking about, it was for the character being outside panels.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12220
>>12215
Unless practices have changed substantially over the last decade, most mangaka don't even do digital. It's all pencil and ink.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12236
>>12216
>Reading about people who hate their own drawings and the process of drawing gives me a lot of joy, I love that negative energy.
Take some of mine; I absolutely hate my stuff.
Pic related. I almost never post my art online because I know it's probably not really worth asking for advice when there's a million things I could drastically improve, and on top of that, I'm just embarrassed to post it in the first place. Any of you guys ever feel that way?
Apologies for the whiny post, just not feeling great about my art lately. I had recently quit drawing for about a year, just got back into the groove a few months ago and I do enjoy drawing, like the act of drawing is fun, but whenever I finish one I just hate it.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12237
>try drawing
>Head is ok
>Face is the worst thing I've laid my eyez upon
>Retry
>Face is alright
>Head is somehow worse
>Fix head
>Eyes makes it look like my character is in a perma stoned state
>Fix eyes
>Everything before is now shit
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12238
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12241
>>12237
Getting everything to mesh together properly is a skill of it's own.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12249
>>12236
I feel a similar way. Looking at a drawing Ive done just reminds me of my mistakes in art and otherwise it brings a sort of sense of shame.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12264
>>12236
I only didn't post my drawing when it isn't finished, or if it's really obviously in bad quality. The one that's worth to be shown I would post it here but only if I really intended to post it. I think the word "hate" is kind of overrated on how you describe it and I pretty sure you're not satisfied on the current result of your drawing. Believe me, there's a lot of things to learn in drawing and once you nailed some of those techniques, it really does feels great to be honest.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12274
>>10592
I don't remember it ever ever going uphill
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12275
>>10592
When the illusion of getting good was broken.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12276
>>12275
wait, are we talking about art going downhill or life? >>12274 I was talking about life
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12285
>>12276
Then it was 2017 for me after a few years of an upswing.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12314
>tfw < $1.90 gas
Thanks 🅱️ased 🅱️lumpf
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12317
>>12038
>you're either a Jew or a Jew
wdhmbt?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12318
>>12213
Maybe I've met you.
In any case I understand and wish you well.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12319
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12332
I've got a question for you drawfags. What was your experience with drawing growing up and how does it affect you today? Did your parents or peers support your hobby or was it discouraged? I've met and seen a handful of people who were praised by their parents as children for drawing- and in one case that praise backfired and lead to serious disillusionment.
Personally speaking, I drew often, almost obsessively and never got support or I was heavily pressured to stop drawing.
I don't draw as much as I used to because of other factors, But i've also never faced severed disillusionment from the fact that people are better than me, especially not the kind that makes me stop drawing.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12333
>>12332
>What was your experience with drawing growing up
I used to make shitty flash animations that got blamed from newgrounds. I then gave up drawing as a teenager.
>and how does it affect you today?
It's terrible. I want to cry myself to sleep knowing how much time I've wasted while trying desperately to make up for it.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12334
>>12332
I was never outright encouraged or discouraged from drawing by my parents so I suppose I just fell into it-but not right away. I think when I was in my mid teens I became interested in drawing because of some of the stuff I was seeing on Newgrounds at the time. It wasn't even particularly good from an artistic standpoint but I just knew I wanted to do stuff like that-in the end it never happened or even came close.
The problem is I never understood the context of how to improve at drawing (i.e. doing it a lot and in a reasonably ordered way, only moving on from subjects once you understand them fairly well and not a moment before) and I became disillusioned very quickly. I struggled to copy things from out of books and became despondent when doing so didn't render me a successful draftsman immediately. It wasn't long before I'd essentially completely given up. It didn't help that I had held two jobs most of my young adult life, but the obsession with counter-strike was just as disruptive.
It wasn't until many years later I picked it up again, about 10 years from when inspiration first hit and about 6 years ago from now. Fast forward to today and I'm 32, I still suck but I've done enough research to know that I'm going in the right direction, albeit slowly. Terribly, terribly slowly (mostly because, despite everything I've been through so far, I still spend way more time feeling sorry for myself and listlessly going through the motions than I do putting my nose to the grindstone).
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12336
>>12332
My parents were artists and they have always liked my stuff and encouraged it. I've drawn all my life and nobody has ever discouraged me but myself.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12347
>>12332
Mostly like >>12334
I was almost always discouraged from picking up drawing as a job though, because my parents were afraid I wouldn't be able to live from it. I tried going into art school after dropping off uni (in math) but I fail the entry exam.
>But i've also never faced severed disillusionment from the fact that people are better than me
If anything, people who do things better than me inspire me no matter the subject as long as I'm interested in it.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12351
>>12215
Your example of 'good panel composition' looks like trash compared to the manga TBH
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12354
>>12217
Prepare for autism.
Here is a manga that is actually drawn in csp. Pay attention to the panel borders, and you see that they are crisp and that the inking always stays within the panels. Also if you are looking at the borders in your example, you'll see that they extend over eachother and don't have perfect corners. There's a slight error where a drawn speedline crosses over the panel line.
The sfx are pasted in digitally, and you can tell by how crisp they are, they stick out like a sore thumb.
I draw manga by hand and take a lot of time to understand techniques in drawing simple things like rocks and foliage, because knowing how to draw a rock or a tree is different from knowing how to depict it in a specific medium. Speedlines, if you've ever drawn them by hand on a page that's 9x13 and might have multiple panels with speedlines is excruciating tedium. Especially when drawing with a little pen that produces lines the width of a hair and covering a wide berth of the page with it. It's very easy to mess up a speedline and ruin everything, there are no tools to make the process more simple other than a ruler and skill.
>>12220
It's becoming more common for mangaka to use digital either in substitution or entirely like with the goblin slayer manga. The convenience of programs is honestly too good to ignore, especially when it's easier to buy a program than it is to hire someone to do your backgrounds for you. This is apart from the fact that nib pens have their own skill curve to master and some people are just not good inkers. The best, like Murata, and the old guard tend to use it if only in substitution. But there are too many faggots now with no respect for the medium.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12385
>>11920
I'd use a fountain pen over set of pencils.
I don't know what's so good about pencil and it's varieties but I think even most big studios just use one type color pencils for animation drafts.
Even good artists can just use one type of pencil to make something photorealistic or just use charcoal.
If I'd be anal about something then it would probably be about the quality of paper.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12392
>>12354
I can't really blame someone for not deliberately going out of their way to make work for themselves, but I will say that if it does result in an inferior product, a lot of mangaka don't have the excuse of 'saving time' these days. When I look at Boku no Hero Academia, I think it looks pretty good for a weekly, but then you have to consider that Horikoshi openly has six or seven assistants. 12 or so pages a week is nothing with that kind of man-power. I don't think I mind if people 'cheat' on their backgrounds within reason, even for traditional artists, mangaka will use screen tones for shading and backgrounds, or trace something from a picture they took. The only time I've really noticed was in this edgy, trash manga, that I admittedly like. This is a particularly egregious example, but this artists draws practically nothing, except for the characters. How does an editor allow this?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12393
>>12332
When I was a small kid I used to draw cave-tier drawings of battles of a lot of shit, for some reason I liked giant scorpions as mounts. This one year for mother's day I draw a book of my mother getting killed in various scenarios and it was called 101 ways mommy could die, and she loved it, mind you I was like 6 at this point
stopped drawing around 8 I think. I don't know why, and didn't draw all that much when I did draw as a kid and I was very poor with a single mother, so no really gave a shit about what I was doing, so I didn't get discouraged or encouraged. I guess I am still bitter about wasting all that time, but that is about it.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12395
>>12392
I'm wondering why the hunter x hunter guy didn't/doesn't cheat more.
Thanks to this thread I can't unsee all of the cheats that manga uses. Just a few weeks ago I was reading them and wondering how they draw such elaborate backgrounds and vehicles but now I know how the sausage is made.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12396
Why wasn't I born with an autistic fetish that makes me draw endlessly?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12397
>>12396
Becuz u touch urself @ nite
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12398
>>12396
>Stop drawing
>Feel bad because I'm not drawing
>Draw as much as I want
>Get burnt out
You just can't win
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12399
>>12392
I have to wonder that too, because i've seen handfuls of really dogshit artwork that makes you ask "how did that get past an editor?" well the fact of the matter is that not all editors are the same. And I think it also depends on publishers, who may have higher or lower standards for what they want in their magazines.
Any substitutions are ok to a point. When you're drawing for free you have ample time and energy, but when you are trying to make a living finding some shortcut whatever that may be might be needed.
I don't think there's any excuse in the world for whatever the hell that shit is or the overuse of tracing/photobashing in general. In my opinion if you can't figure out how to draw it to begin with then you're probably just not cut out for that industry- whether you trace or just can't draw at all.
I mostly condemn that because inwardly I hate the idea of a no (or low) standards comic industry- since it seems like manga is quickly becoming the last bastion of the comic genre as a whole and the us market is fizzling. However I think the future is in self publishing funded by people who want work that is good. That might make people resort to cheating less often because of time constraints and abysmal pay.
>>12395
some people have integrity anon. I believe that author only ended up making those pages so shoddy because he was cramped for time, or so I heard.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12401
>>12399
Looking at the comicsgate stuff it seems like most of those artists actually draw all their stuff but I think that probably has a lot to do with having a much less strict time table.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12421
>>12332
I drew since I could remember. Parents did not mind it, and did not praise it too much as they never were not people who care much for art. I did get a lot of praise and attention from extended other family members and kids in the kindergarten, but I never liked being in center of attention. I was a poorfag whose only option for entertainment were drawing, books, TV, biking, and wandering fields and forests in the area, so that's just what I did. I only got to play vidya when visiting relatives and friends, so I drew my own video games and video game levels in my spare time. Same with movies, comics, or toys I did not have access to.
Disillusionment #1 happened at the age of 6, when I finally started school. One of the girls in my class was very good in some ways better than me. Suddenly I would not be the only one who people would swarm around and watched during art classes. That made me realize that there will always be someone better than me.
Disillusionment #2 happened during freshmen year in high school. Pieces that won audience's choice were some of the worst ones to make it through submissions, both on technical and creative level. Except that they were drawn by popular kids. I knew that recognition did not depend on skill only, but that really hammered it down.
Neither made me stop drawing. I stopped because school and part time work consumed a lot of time. Lately, I have been slowly getting back into it, as I am sick non-productive hobbies.
>>12399
Based on the European comics I read, they generally have higher production values and standards than either manga or American books. My opinion might be skewed, since most stuff that gets translated is the creme of the crop. Many of these books release one 45 to 100 page tome every year or two, which is a luxury that most manga and American creators do not have.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12437
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
You ever had your art feels spill into a production?
Here's an episode of the Kirby cartoon where Dedede turns the town into an animation sweatshop. Lots of tongue in cheek and some very direct jabs taken at industry problems.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12438
>Reading "Drawing on the right side of the brain"
>Doing the exercises
>Can't shake the feeling that i'm fucking up, and essentially, learning nothing
>Feeling down
>Calm myself and try again
>My drawings come out better, nothing awesome but enough for me
Jesus Christ, in nothing more than a few hours I experienced a roller coaster of emotions and I don't know if that is right.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12494
Is it normal to harbor so much fucking hate and bigotry towards your fellow artists? If I discover somebody has drawn something I have objections to I immediately lose any and all desire to speak with them and actively dislike them as a person.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12535
>>12494
By law, if you are an artist you are also insane. Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of artists you'll meet are going to be exceptional individuals with shit opinions and you just have to accept that. Artists as a whole are naturally left leaning and that is the nature of the game, however, consider that maybe you wouldn't want someone to think of and act towards you in the same way. Give them the benefit of the doubt every once in a while, and acknowledge people when they try to talk to you.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12621
>>12438
>Reading "Drawing on the right side of the brain"
Why? It's literally the worst book on drawing ever written.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12639
>>12438
Sometimes when you don't get something it's not a bad thing to take a break or sleep it off or do something else for a little while. Your brain is still working and you might get a fresh new perspective on the problem.
t. actually found some answers by sleeping
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12656
>>11342
I stopped at the "box ball" lesson and didn't move onto lesson 2, the "contour line" lesson thing. I believe it's also in Rapid Viz, but are there more resources/lessons like it?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12659
>>12639
Your brain moves data from the short term to the long term while you're asleep. Think of it like powering down a computer so it moves its RAM content to its HD.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12686
>>12621
It's that bad? I found it useful for some things and I feel that it has helped me a little.
Also:
>Bad shit happens to me
>Dont want to draw anything today
>Feel like shit because I am not drawing
Mr. Loomis I want to get off this wild ride.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.12688
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
No.13551
>>11344
Simply continue as I am.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.