/film/ - FILM

>>14242

I don't like his (or barely anyone's) politics either, but I don't judge him going by them

Teorema is also rather homoerotic, so if you're really scandalized by such stuff then idk

Either way Pasolini's best was definitely not Salo

>>14242

>He was also positive about the New Left in the United States: after visiting the US in the mid-1960s, he came to the conclusion that the New Left "will lead to an original form of non-Marxist Socialism", and wrote that the movement reminded him of the Italian Resistance. Pasolini saw these two areas of struggle as inter-linked: after visiting Harlem he stated that "the core of the struggle for the Third World revolution is really America".

The point of Salo is an abjuration of his previous position and works which were all pretty positive on sexual liberation and the whole 68 movements. Also in Salo homosexuality is seen as in imposition so hardly. If are such in disagreement with Pasolini politically it's obvious that you are not gonna enjoy his works tho.

His movies from first to last were all a celeberation of pre modern society which in opinion was tainted by capitalist ideals.

Evola was semi retarded as he supported a regime that went against everything he ever wrote.

Salo is much more than le ebil fascist are nasty.

>>14240

Salo is a much more prophetic work and really brings home the point.

Problably the gospel according to matthew is his second close but it doesn't have the metatexual and "complete" quality of Salo.

Salo just throws out of the window the whole history of the civilization post enlightment, it's a really fitting closure for pasolini's life and work even if it wasn't supposed to be one.

>>14246

>pre modern society which in opinion was tainted by capitalist ideals.

Not tainted.

Sorry

>>14246

>prophetic

Except it wasn't, otherwise Pasolini wouldn't take pride in being a communist while making a movie about fascism

>>14248

>Pasolini wouldn't take pride in being a communist while making a movie about fascism

Where does he do it in the movie?

And why he wouldn't?

The film isn't about fascist italy of mussolini but the fascist italy of post WWII the one where sexual dynamics where destroyed and commodified by consumerisme, the one that less than 10 years later would become the playground of a guy who owned television networks and would be elected by talking about god and then showing boobs on his channel.

Pasolini communism has nothing to do with what what's around these days.

In fact Salo is direct reaction to his previous trilogy of life which celebrated the sexual act as a liberatory form.

If you are so against communism how the fuck did you even like other Pasolini's works?

And btw Pasolini was kicked out of the communist party long time before Salo.

The only think that makes him remotly communist is him being anticapitalist and being a scholar of gramsci.

The only time communism is mentioned in the movie is in the light of a positive and heterosexual relationship that goes against the forced sodomy of the 4 libertines and even then it's just hopless posturing.

>>14249

>if you are so against communism... Pasolini's work?

Because I completely ignore my own politics when watching a movie and watch it from the director's point of view, as much as I can, based on my knowledge of them

Anyways I don't think this discussion is going anywhere and has hardly anything to do with the top 250

Personally I like Salo, but not as much as Teorema which is my favorite Pasolini. That's about all

>>14243

>but I don't judge him going by them

I don't too, it was rection on "greatest mind of post world war 2 italy".

>scandalized

Disgusted. Homoeroticism is pure cancer, eg Jean Genet and Derek Jarman.

>>14246

>His movies from first to last were all a celeberation of pre modern society which in opinion was not tainted by capitalist ideals.

True, but not from todays view, where being lumpen and fag is seen as the peak of humanity, and while they were celebrations of ancient societies, they were revisionist as fuck. And homoerotic ad absurdum. Also liberation through sex and not lust is pure escapism. It's like saying "tear your wings, be a worm". Not to say that while sexual liberation liberated sex eased access to women, it also completely destroyed sex and mainly sublime eroticism in the very same time. Sexual liberation was shitty reactionist blasphemy started by visualism. It gained traction only because everybody abbandoned imagination for the sake of quickness and cancerous utilitarianism paradoxically combined with mindless consumerism.

>disagreement with Pasolini politically

I very much accept his anti-capitalist posture and pre-modern society appreciation, even tho it was revisionist and retarded considering what the world was going through at the time. Pure escapism and hopeless defense against systemic oppression too. Was it presented as solution?

>semi-retarded as he supported a regime that went against everything he ever wrote

Yep, but post-ww2 didn't have anybody better.

>Salo is much more than le ebil fascist are nasty.

I just said it's utter trash with no explanation, don't imply.

>>14249

>Pasolini was kicked out of the communist party

I wouldn't call the party that kicked him out "communist".

>>14251

>True, but not from todays view, where being lumpen and fag is seen as the peak of humanity

>everybody abbandoned imagination for the sake of quickness and cancerous utilitarianism paradoxically combined with mindless consumerism.

This is exactly what Salo is about. Sex is not anymore seen as liberatory or free from the power but a brutal impostion. Especially faggines in Salo is not seen as a good thing. It's funny for you to say this since Pasolini would absolutley agree with you on it.

Modernism and enlightment are both seen as complicit to the brutality commited by the libertines

>Also liberation through sex and not lust is pure escapism.

Watch it with some historical context. The point wasn't even sex or lust, pasolini was one of the first to shit on the sexual revolution for taking away privacy from sex life, the point of free sexuality at least as pasolini intended it had more to do with freedom from economic and social herarchies. Yeah it was seen as liberatory since it was the only thing not tainted at the time. He saw his mistakes and made Salò

>Not to say that while sexual liberation liberated sex eased access to women, it also completely destroyed sex and mainly sublime eroticism in the very same time.

Again I don't see how can you object with the movie since Pasolini absolutley agrees with you. Read what he wrote on the trilogy of life before starting filming salò.

>even tho it was revisionist and retarded considering what the world was going through at the time.

I don't see in what way. You mean they should have known better? Way to easy to say that now. Not even the fascist where opposing at the time.

>Sexual liberation was shitty reactionist blasphemy started by visualism

This is debatable if not too semplistic imho. As far as Italy goes there wasn't just one group or reason to support those movements and Pasolini was anything but blasphemous, but others were I agree.

>Was it presented as solution?

Yes, it was and Salo is exactly his coming to terms with those mistake

>but post-ww2 didn't have anybody better.

No one gave a fuck in italy about evola after the war.

Even the italian fascist groups didn't give a fuck because they were to occupied watching television.

>I wouldn't call the party that kicked him out "communist".

This is a new one, for all it's flaws the PCI was a communist party in 1950 when pasolini got kicked out. Altrough I'm curious on why you say this. Sei Italiano?

>Homoeroticism is pure cancer

Don't watch Theorema and you'll be fine. Salo may be the reason why there is a theory for Pasolini being a self hating homosexual. I don't really see where you saw homoeroticism in Uccellacci and Ucellini tho. I didn't see the movie in 5 years but I don't rembeber anything gay about it.

>>13094

What is the deal with 8chan man? Nobody even mentioned Lord of the Rings or Star Wars yet, its like film school free online classes or some shit wow

>>14275

Ha ha, maybe you'll find some good suggestions here. It's kind of pointless to mention popular movies because everyone already knows about them. The list would be boring.

>>14276

but are these really the best films

>>14278

Probably not

>>14278

It's supposed to be the favorites of people here, not necessarily "best"

>>14275

Did you come from 4chan?

>>14289

It sounds like it's just the time for me to propose Blackhat for this list.

If there is to be a Mann entry, that's what should be included imo

>>14290

I'm starting to regret my post, southern macedonian anon

>>14289

>Plus if someone really, really enjoys Kung Pow and justifies it with a coherent argument, why refuse it?

The list guidelines are a bit loose, but suggestions have been subjected to dissenting opinions. Something like King Pow would probably get shot down.

>The list is meant to reflect the board's personality, and who is the board if not the users themselves?

True, but that means taking into account all previous posts. The general trend of the board is away from mainstream films. I think the list should reflect that.

>>14292

>The general trend of the board is away from mainstream films. I think the list should reflect that.

But that doesn't mean that it should be forced that way, let the list reflect the nature of the board for good or bad, i mean the list shouldn't neccesarily reflect anything, but it will reflect something, just don't force it.

>>14275

Thank you Anon, now I finally have the strength to kill myself after reading your statement.

>>14256

>Read what he wrote on the trilogy of life before starting filming salò.

I'll do, it's true I haven't read anything from him.

>You mean they should have known better?

I'll comment on that after rewatching.

>This is debatable if not too simplistic imho.

With the advent of televisions and mass advertisation/propaganda started visualism, the pop-culture*. This meant that the world was not going to let you imagine as they wanted you to brainlessly consume sex, sexuality and everything they wanted [and it soon projected into literature and everything else]. Exempli gratia not a thing of woman body was left to imagination, not a thing was left to imagination as it was shown. The trend hit general public and now here we are. I'm more sexually stimulated by, say, muslim women because I can imagine how she is, how's her body etc. And all that started as reaction against aristocratic elitism, against imagination, against intelligence, against human, not bourgeoisie shamefuly.

*Hence why 60s commies were obssessed with newspapers and television.

>No one gave a fuck in italy about evola after the war.

While it's true, does it make him any less greatest mind?

>homoeroticism in Uccellacci and Ucellini

That one was his last tolerable. Although there was a scene on the end of the film, where some people couldn't start a car? and there was a woman among those three? people that was about to give birth. That was homoerotic. I'll have to watch it again. Seen it something like 3 years ago.

>Sei Italiano?

Non.

>This is a new one, for all it's flaws the PCI was a communist party in 1950 when pasolini got kicked out.

They were too sucking Stalins dick, they were too sucking social realism and brutalist architecture, the ultimate anti-art, they didn't see how much in wrong they were for not advocating their own stances at the very least; you see, I'm more anarcho-communist/trotskyist therefore my opinion on that is kinda pointless, all other forms of communism I percieve as ruthless dictatorships. I have to cite Sartre too, one of the few who were still using their brains and recognized the enemies of culture.

If we want French civilization to survive, it must be fitted into the framework of a great European civilization. Why? I have said that civilization is the reflection on a shared situation. In Italy, in France, in Benelux, in Sweden, in Norway, in Germany, in Greece, in Austria, everywhere we find the same problems and the same dangers ... But this cultural polity has prospects only as elements of a policy which defends Europe's cultural autonomy vis-à-vis America and the Soviet Union, but also its political and economic autonomy, with the aim of making Europe a single force between the blocs, not a third bloc, but an autonomous force which will refuse to allow itself to be torn into shreds between American optimism and Russian scientificism.

Also I want to nominate L'Ami de mon amie. I was thinking about wonderful La Collectionneuse and Ma nuit chez Maud, but I consider L'Ami de mon amie more enjoyable. L'Ami de mon amie is certainly not superior, but the optimism, the summer happines, the lightheartedness, the awesome color choices, the beatiful Emmanuelle Chaulet and it's also film that came after godafwul, ugly and for-tv-made Le Rayon vert, film that cleaned his name in my eyes and saved Comédies et Proverbes.

>>14280

certainly not

>>14354

just an addendum to visualism as I'm about to rewatch his, hmm, ancient duology; one abolishes individuality for the sake of sign.

>>14518

I agree. Those three films are excellent. I love the snappy writing in SSoS.

Lancaster had a particularly dignified screen presence. I was thinking of other male actors who were active around the same time.

Kirk Douglas doesn't really measure up. Not only was he a manlet, but his persona usually had shades of sleazeball. I can't fully respect that.

Other actors like Laurence Olivier carried a dignified persona, but that came from an obvious theatre background. I find that to be offputting.

>>14519

Kubrick removed that sleazeball in Paths of Glory quite well, didn't he though? My favorite Douglas is that, or "Lonely are the brave", scene included in embed. Do agree with that bit about Olivier too.

>>14520

I wasn't really bashing Kirk. I always have fun watching him. I just don't think he's as good as Lancaster.

I notice Kirk Douglas movies hit certain points again and again. He often has a brooding scene where he's pacing around outraged about some injustice. Then there's a scene where he's gregarious and gladhanding all his friends after a successful escapade. Then there's a scene where he finds an excuse to take his shirt off so he can puff out his ribcage.

>>14518

Burt is great stuff, his acting demeanor was a strange combination of manliness, elegance and the rare ingredient of (seemingly) honest humbleness. Some actors can pull the last but without being very convincing or achieving a strong lead attitude, pretty tough. Macho and elegance can be see often but the script always steers it to be overly dominant or placed into a trick character.

Fella had weird politics but didn't really matter or interfere with his movies other than Nuremberg Trials, but that's a script thing. Also one of the few actors who interpreted his drunk status as overly fond of things and people, don't why that isn't more exploited.

>>14423

I couldn't force myself to see it even though I've been reading greeks lately and read Medea and Oedipus because of that. I take back that Pasolinis two films set in ancient greek are revisionist.

>>14551

It just didn't resonate with me.

How about Mon Oncle? I haven't seen a film that would make me want to go sit in pub with folks, have boar's head with garlic and pint of bear, then pack my pipe and talk about local politics or how the madman living in neighboring village sold three nearly dead mares above the price, or just simply enjoy life without thinking about it, sunbathe in the ordinary life of goodhearted villagers and accept the ever-changing stillness in a long long time. Tati is more and more relevant these days and not only on imageboards. Poujadism is back in fashion.

>>14554

Yes I'm surprised Tati wasn't suggested already

Another I don't see is Alain Resnais. I suggest Hiroshima mon amour which is simply a poignant love story. I know Marienbad is the more challenging and more iconic film, but I don't think it works as well as it could.

>>14348

This film is bad. Adding it to the list just because it's from Turkey is not a good enough reason, and having a long monologue isn't that either.

If they were then I'd like you guys to add

>Kurtlar Vadisi: Irak

a stunning, engaging, bold and provocative story, terrific acting (for being a turkish film) and some innovative action sequences. Turkey's answer to Sholay basically.

If you guys are into monologues, then why the hell isn't Network or Altered States on your list?

This list smells circlejerking,

>>13094

>Generally we want the list to reflect the nature of this board, so let's try to avoid mainstream titles.

what's the definition of "mainstream"?

Stalker for instance, was incredible mainstream in russia with 4 million tickets sold.

same with La Dolce Vita, The Birth of a Nation, The Wages of Fear, Suspiria, Das Boot and a bunch of others films in your list.

The Ascent

Come and See

>>14570

This is my main issue with it too, but I suspect it means the obvious, ie no modern (50s+) American blockbusters and no American classics (with the exception of perhaps Griffith)

If anything, IMO, Unforgiven or The Wild Bunch or half of the John Ford movies deserve to be there more than half of what's there, but who cares anyways

>>14570

I think, in context, it means hard to penetrate films and today lesser known, overlooked or lesser known outside of country of origin. There are already many lists with quality but somewhat popular films, so these lists try to create something of value. But of course when there's 250 limit there will be a lot of known films and we didn't even hit 250.

>>14572

Unforgiven was really plain and did nothing new, and it is since the script was floating around in Hollywood for 20 years. I don't know why it's praised as one of the best movies made.

>>14575

>Karlovy Vary aka Marienbad

I have to say that I'm for it and think that it's one of the most cinematic films ever. But I'm quite sucker for Robbe-Grillet('s screenplays) and I've seen it in cinema, so I'm biased, but I've seen majority of films in cinema, so whatever.

My nomination this time is O Padre e a Moça (1966) by Joaquim Pedro de Andrade for it being the best and most cinematic cinematic depiction of first love I've seen. It leaves almost nothing to imagination and nothing to interpretation it being yet again shot in nazi/commie/capitalist fashion, that is muh plebs fashion, but it's great example of film being so poetic, emotive, impressive, inspiring and imaginative that it doesn't need any mystery, no tasteful symbolism, being really just a simple, with great screenplay, masterfully shot(I liked especially the conveyed unconveyed hesitations: mise-en-scène, the crystallic close-ups, lightheaded tracking shots and the firmly emancipating barren landscapes) story; immortal story, of Beauty and Love, one can say Art and Life, being envied and hunted by the untalented, by the bitter, by moralizers, by someone, be it nazis, commies, bourg democrats or any other levelling mediocrity and purpose trying to make ugly beatiful and mundane unusual, or outright denying existence of Beauty like in all three cases(the second was by far the best for art though), it doesn't matter, it's always the same "people", the same "reasons", the same "righteous" and that's why the story is immortal. Another thing I liked is that it relies heavily on newfound God and is completely amoral; it doesn't care about morals, morals don't exist, morals exist outside the couple, outside Love and Beauty, outside Life and Art. The very premise of the film is aristocratic yet universal, idealistic; pure and unriddled lyrical epic and that's exactly why it left an impression too. Nobody cares about mundane, about ugly, about lowly, nobody should care about any of that and that's, again, exactly why this stark, explicitly christian gem shines so brightly. It's raw and natural too, there are no masks, no reality yet reality; it's beatiful lie, one of the best films I've ever seen honestly. Film about beatiful, thus God, against ugly and mediocre, thus Devil. Dreamlike vision, rabid cricket, stale like fidget.

Another one is short Sběrné surovosti (1965) by Juraj Herz. It's based on Hrabal's Baron Munchausen. That says all. Nice little canapé. Actually the aspect of his short is exactly what I find in every Němec' film and is why he's among my favourites.

>>15351

There's also Menzel's Ostře sledované vlaky and Fádní odpoledne by Passer.

ad O Padre e a Moça I think this sums it up nicely: nec mori timet, nec vivere recusavit

I suggest adding Rehearsals for Retirement on the shorts list. I love the ethereal and melancholy atmosphere of that Phil Solomon was able to create by completely re-purposing a video game environment.

>>15375

His 16mm are miles away better than his average video experiments.

>>14569

You have a nigger's brain, not even shocked about that considering your flag says everything. By your logic let's include Hard Boiled and many other great HK cinema that fits the "stunning, engaging, bold and provocative story, terrific acting (for being a turkish film) and some innovative action sequences." much better than that piece of shit Turkish propaganda crap, fucking hell dude, I at least hope you're being sarcastic. And I must admit, you got me there.