/christianity/ - Christian Theology & Philosophy

Has anyone ever noticed the strange similarities between Roman Catholicism and Mormonism?

>>9060

>president = pope

>quorum of apostles = college of cardinals

things like that?

>>9057

No, they are not Christian. They are not trinitarian and should not get a flag. They don't believe in eternal life by personal placement of faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior, they believe mortals can ascend to Godhood, and that the God of the Bible was once a man.

>>9060

They both believe that their earthly leader is directly receiving special revelation from God to declare to their church

>>9060

>believes in the Trinity and is explicitly antimasonic

>believes in a weird arrianism-polytheism and has pseudomasonic rituals like the secret shake of hands

Yeah shure.

>>9060

How so? Genuinely curious.

Defiantly a relation between Mormons and Islam. Vid related.

>>9057

NO.

>>In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The first thing a mormon 'elder' will tell you is that the Word is corrupted. That's enough to know we should ignore them. Yes there are ample other arguments to make. freemasonry is satanist. Their founder was a freemason. If the Word was corrupt (it's not) how would an illiterate Joseph Smith know? By reading and analysis? Even if we accept all that(we shouldn't) it is obvious that the mormon church is corrupted. Do they not believe in the revelation on celestial marriage? Why do they not follow this revelation today? A few decades ago they were excommunicating for drinking sodas. Now they openly condone divorce. Are they inviting all those excommunicated back? Why not?

>>9057

Yes, of course Mormons are Christian because they believe in the trinity, now board owner where are the Mormon flags?

>>9148

>Believe in the Trinity

They don't. They believe there are also other gods.

>>9165

>They don't.

Yes they do, now board owner please give Mormons their own flag

>They believe there are also other gods.

Stop trying to change the subject

>>9205

That's not a change of subject, they don't meet the athanasian definition of the Trinity

>>9207

>athanasian

Doesn't apply here since board owner never said to use that definition, just Trinity is sufficient to lay claim that you are a Christian

Now board owner, please give Mormons their own flag since Mormons believe in the Trinity

>>9211

The Trinity Athanasius proclaimed is the same one proclaimed in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, a Creed affirmed by all 318 Fathers and commissioned by the Holy Spirit. All Christians have universally believed in the same Trinity as the Creed proclaims because it is the Trinity as taught in both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition, taught to mankind by the Law and the Prophets and the Writings and the Anagignoskomena, and fully revealed in Christ Jesus himself, the Sophia, Logos, the Dunamis of God, his one and only beloved Son, who is our God and Savior. All of this was handed down to us by the apostles themselves! In their writings in the New Testament, the Gospels, the Acts, the Epistles, the Apocalypse! And they also handed these things down directly to their own disciples who have taught these things orally and in their own writings, handing them directly down one generation to a next, to their own disciples, for the last 1,989 years. The Bishops and the Priests teach us these things because they are in direct succession to the apostles themselves. Even the heretics teach these things. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants can't even deny the Holy Trinitiy! There is one ousia, there are three hypostases. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are those three, and are in a special relation to each other. Though they are wholly distinct, they are one in essence, complete in substance, they are one God. One is not above or below the other. Although the Father is the center of the Trinity, from whom the Son is begotten and the Holy Spirit is spirated, they are all the same in omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience. This is God, for God is not man, but God is spirit. Every Christian, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, all proclaim this same doctrine that comes from the same Creed whether they want to admit it or not. Mormons do not teach this same doctrine though. Everything I wrote above is the opposite of what Mormonism teaches about God. Mormons and Mormonism is not and will never be and never was in any sense of the term, Christian. The case closed 1,694 years ago.

>>9214

The board owner made no mention of this, the only criteria is that you are a believer in the Trinity. Stop changing the rules as you see fit. Board owner, please give Mormons their own flag as they believe in the Trinity.

>>9214

He's just throwing a fit, don't pay any attention to him

>>9218

Don't lie. You'd also be upset if the rules were bent to single you out. Face it, Mormons are just as much Trinitarian Christian as any other Christian on this board. Give us our flag.

>>9223

>thinking if you repeat a lie enough you'll win

No Flag for (You)

>>9057

No, they are a polytheistic cult. They have a fake Jesus who is brother of Lucifer.

>>9060

its masonic, judaic, protestant & catholic syncretism

>>9057

The Book of Mormon is full of anachronisms, it can't even be supported when you find out.

An anachronism is a chronological inconsistency in some arrangement, especially a juxtaposition of persons, events, objects, or customs from different periods. The most common type of anachronism is an object misplaced in time, but it may be a verbal expression, a technology, a philosophical idea, a musical style, a material, a plant or animal, a custom, or anything else associated with a particular period that is placed outside its proper temporal domain.

Examples:

(1) 2 Nephi 12 : 7: Their land also is full of silver

and gold, neither is there any end

of their a treasures; their land is also

full of horses, neither is there any

end of their chariots.

(2) 2 Nephi 15:28: Whose arrows shall be sharp,

and all their bows bent, and their

horses’ hoofs shall be counted like

flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind, their roaring like a lion

(3) 1 Nephi 4:9: And I beheld his a sword, and

I drew it forth from the sheath

thereof; and the hilt thereof was

of pure gold, and the workmanship

thereof was exceedingly fine, and

I saw that the blade thereof was of

the most precious steel.

(1) and (2): Horses: Horses did NOT existed in the Americas before the colonization (1500+), indeed, the Equus originated from America, but they died in the last ice age and the last ancestor connected to them died in Alaska/Canada, not A SINGLE fossil in the whole America. The same for chariots, never found a SINGLE ancient chariot.

(3) Steel: Steel weren't invented until 1800 BC, the uses of the material could led to a domination in the whole America, but, as you thought, there is not A SINGLE archeological trait of steel. We know when steel is made because they leave particles that are NOT common in the nature.

Also, there is more stuff, and i recommend you to see this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAGasQ7j_ZI&list=LL1sDf02On7uG2zVJurxQINQ&index=4&t=1607s

There is a disturbingly good point here. Considering the cultic behavior, wonky theology and doctrine of the SDA, as well as having a prophetess ala Joseph Smith, and supporting a "trinity" on a specious level: what makes the SDA so much different from the Mormons that they get a flag, and the LDS doesn't?

>>9271

I'm already well aware of the Mormons. But you, like others, seem to have a disturbing case of denial and defensiveness toward the SDA.

>>9272

I make no apology for defending SDAs against slander regarding their doctrine on the Trinity. We have an obligation to be dealing in truth, not lying when it suits our interests.

>>9273

You claim to be dealing in truth but you are in fact extremely biased against Mormons for no good reason. We Mormons claim Trinitarianism, but why is it when we do it we are singled out but all other Christian denominations get their own flag so easily?

Whole lotta double-standards going on in this board…

>>9274

I have cause to suspect you're not a Mormon, you're the provacateur (or one of a few) who's just trying to stir the pot for whatever reason.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt anyway. Read the last citation, is this not orthodoxy according to church leadership? Where is the church statement disagreeing with this theology, that the three are separate individuals?

If it can be proven that at present the Mormon church actually worships one God in Trinity, neither confounding the persons nor dividing the essence, as the father son and ghost, then I'll agree that they meet the requirement for a flag here and petition with you.

I know you can't though, because this is a basic fact of Mormon teaching.

>>9275

You're not the board owner so fuck off

>>9276

not an argument

>>9273

Yes. Defending a cult with aberrant beliefs is very noble.

>>9280

Nice equivocation you snake. I'm not defending any of their heretical distinctives.

>>9281

Yet you still defend, by your own admission, an outright heretical cult, for specious reasons. While calling me a snake.

>>9282

I defend any group against slander, orthodox or not.

>>9283

>I defend any group against slander, orthodox or not (except Mormons)

Fix'd

>>9285

Nobody is slandering mormons

>>9287

Of course you don't think it's slander, but why weren't any denominations treated with this much scrutiny? Face it, Mormons are Christian and they believe in the Trinity so give them their flag according to BO rules.

Rules are rules.

>>9288

It seems I'm wasting my time. You're not interested in investigating how Mormons articulate the Trinity, you just want to cause controversy.

Come back with some citations.

>no one posted it yet

>>9289

Board Owner said only criteria to be a Christian is to be believer in Trinity

And according to that rule, Mormons are Christian since Mormons believe in the Trinity.

>>9292

>no one posted it yet

>>9295

As I've presented from a Mormon document, they do not. The onus is on you to prove that the quotation I found is rejected by the Mormon church.

>>9298

Mormons do not reject the Trinity, plus you are not the board owner so you don't make up the rules on the spot.

>>9303

Ok, here's what BO said

>We are defining Christian broadly and in the most basic, historic way: affirming the doctrine of the trinity.

>>7801

The doctrine of the Trinity is that the three persons are one God (among other details).

>>9304

Yep, and Mormons affirm the Trinity and we are Christian. Now give us our flag.

>>9311

Do I need to repeat myself?

>>9298

>The onus is on you to prove that the quotation I found is rejected by the Mormon church.

>>9315

You're not the board owner so I don't have to follow your arcane rules. It's set up so as to deny us the Christian label since it's apparent you are biased for whatever reason.

Also I want to point out that no other Christian denomination that believes in the Trinity received this much scrutiny and backlash.

Give up, we will get our flag and Mormons are Christian according to the board owner's definition.

>>9317

No, they're not as I've shown.

>>9318

Nobody gives a shit about your opinion.

>>9322

Fuck off nigger

>>9311

>>9322

Mormons are not Christian. see first pic >>9079

>>9330

>We are defining Christian broadly and in the most basic, historic way: affirming the doctrine of the trinity.

Mormons affirm the Trinity so according to the Board Owner, Mormons are Christian. It doesn't matter what your meme picture says.

>>9332

>Mormons affirm the Trinity

Not if they're polytheistic

>It doesn't matter what your meme picture says.

Not an argument, learn to read.

>>9335

>We are defining Christian broadly and in the most basic, historic way: affirming the doctrine of the trinity.

You're the one that needs to learn how to read

Gentlemen, there is no reasoning with an instigator who does not listen.

Remember how we deal with them

>>9338

Agreed, Mormons are Trinitarian so let's give them their own flag per board rules

>>9148

>>9205

>>9211

>>9217

>>9276

>>9295

>>9303

>>9317

>>9332

>>9341

calm down

The doctrine of the trinity is not just recognizing the three persons. A trinitarian believes that there is one God, God is three persons, and each person is God.

Mormons do not believe this, as evidenced here: >>9271

No flag.

>>9433

Here it is straight from them, this year, on youtube

2:08

>Together the three members of the Godhead are one in many ways, but don't confuse the Godhead with concepts of the Trinity found in other Christian faiths, as there are key differences which for latter-day saints are very important to understand.

In the video description

>The Godhead consists of God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Each member is a different, individual being.

>>9311

>>9317

>>9223

If you really were a mormon, you would know that mormons do not profess to be trinitarian.

I thought to be Christian you need to believe in Christ and that's it.

>>9496

Who told you that?

>>9498

>Christian

>Christ-ian

As in you're someone who believes in Christ. I don't know, it's like it's in the name. I don't see it called Trinitian.

>>9510

"Believing in Christ" is a necessary condition for the title Christian but not a sufficient one

>>9515

Why does there need to be any more to be considered a follower of Christ?

>>9521

You can call whatever you want Christian personally, you should just know that Christianity has an ancient definition based on a sacred text.

Is a libertarian just one who believes in liberty? No, many people profess to believe in liberty but are not libertarians, because libertarianism is a distinct ideology with a generally accepted definition.

>>9523

Where did Christ or the Apostles define Christianity in the King James Bible?

>>9525

Christ and the apostles were centuries removed from the King James Bible because that's an English translation of the source texts

Christian wasn't a term until the church at Antioch. A definition is not given in the text, but scripture is sufficient to provide the believer with orthodox christology.

>>9526

>A definition is not given in the text

Source text or not, if it's not there, there's not a hard set definition. All the scriptures point to is believing in Christ and following His teachings. That's all.

>>9527

Suppose one believes that Christ was a historical figure, but was merely mortal. He follows Christ's teachings regarding morality.

Is he a Christian? No, he does not believe on Jesus as Lord.

>>9528

Yeah. Exactly. I apologize for not specifying that they need to believe in Him as a diety, I thought that was a given.

>>9530

That's ok friend. I don't think believing in Jesus as a deity is enough either though, what about monrchians or polytheists? These are incompatible with the Bible and historically condemned by Christians as something other than Christianity.

>>9534

Honestly? I feel like that it's up to the individual. Sure it may be different from person to person, but it should be that person's relationship with God in their own way. Personally I feel like Christ would welcome anyone, even if their own worship was different. If they're doing their best and they're following Christ's teachings in some way, it's good. At least to me. There are some people who might not seem like they're following it "right" or whatever, but if their hearts in the right place, would God punish them? I personally don't think so, but that's to each their own.

I also think there's a bigger difference between most polytheical religions and the Mormon religion. The Mormons believe that although there may be more gods, that we have one that's ours and we should worship that god. Compared to Hinduism where there are just a lot of different gods to worship. Not sure about monarchians, though, I don't know about them, but if they worship someone other than Christ, that's not ok cause they're not following Christ's teachings of worshiping the Father.

Hey, I get why people don't like including Mormons in traditional Christianity since they have a separate origin and can't be tied back to the ancient church historically, but I feel like they're doing their best. They're different that's for sure, and I certainly wouldn't call them orthodox, but I like to give them a home. I know a lot of people don't like them, but they're always nice to me. I'd include them in Christ's followers.

>>9537

My friend you are preaching ecumenism. You are compromising on the gospel.

Mormonism has many favorable attributes but we can in no circumstances give the impression that Mormons are anything other than damned. If any man preach another gospel, let him be accursed.

God welcomes anyone who meets his criteria: belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Not "having a heart in the right place". The gospel they preach is contradictory to that of Protestant Christianity.

So why are there multiple religions in Christianity if ecumenism is bad? Shouldn't there only be one? If we can include multiple sects, why exclude one?

If Mormons are damned, then all but one branch of Christianity is damned, too. It's as likely as any other branch of Christianity, and to that any other religion, to be the correct path.

God loves all of His children. If they never get the chance to truly learn the gospel of Jesus Christ, whichever it may be, I doubt that he'll throw them away. What a horrible way of believing in God. If they willingly choose to ignore His teachings, that's on the individual, but if they never can follow Christ? Nah, God loves them as much as anyone else.

>>9539

Whoops forgot to quote you lol

>>9540

>God loves all of His children.

John 1:12 NASB — But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

>If Mormons are damned, then all but one branch of Christianity is damned, too. It's as likely as any other branch of Christianity

No, the question of salvation is entirely based on the statement of the gospel, which is decided based on unchanging scripture. Your statement just doesn't logically follow.

John 14:6 NASB — Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

>So why are there multiple religions in Christianity if ecumenism is bad

Because people arrive at different, mutually exclusive conclusions

>Shouldn't there only be one?

Yes ideally nobody is every heterodox

> If we can include multiple sects, why exclude one?

If you mean exclusion from the title of "Christian", because they don't meet the definition.

>if they never can follow Christ? Nah, God loves them as much as anyone else

Romans 1:20 NASB — For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

>>9546

>John 1:12 NASB — But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,

John 1:12 has nothing to do with God's love.

>No, the question of salvation is entirely based on the statement of the gospel, which is decided based on unchanging scripture. Your statement just doesn't logically follow.

John 14:6 NASB — Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Clearly you don't have logical processing then. If it's based on one interpretation of scripture, one interpretation is correct, or one church is correct. If anything John 14:6 supports my claim that through Christ people are saved. If people believe in Christ, which each branch of Christianity (and the Mormons) believe, they are saved.

>Because people arrive at different, mutually exclusive conclusions

Clearly you misunderstood, there should only be one church that's considered Christian if there is only one true church. They should be fighting for the title of Christianity. If you followed along you'd see the background to the question.

>Yes ideally nobody is every heterodox

So you're saying every Protestant and break away is incorrect and damned? Even if they're good people and doing their best to live righteously? Believing that is believing God is an irrational and illogical being and honestly is blasphemous.

>If you mean exclusion from the title of "Christian", because they don't meet the definition.

So far the conclusive definition is following Christ's Gospel and that there can only be one true path, so every sect but one doesn't meet the definition of Christianity and should be excluded, but we don't know which shouldn't be excluded. We've also covered that there isn't a definition given by Christ or His Apostles, only people who've tried to exclude others from believing in Christ have created definitions outside of believing in Christ and following His teachings.

>Romans 1:20 NASB — For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Instead of twisting scripture by removing the context, you might want to actually read the entire passage. The passage speaks of condemning those who commit sin and do not repent. Not only that, it only specifies sins that are directly contrary to teachings of Christ, not condemning those who do their best to follow Christ. Furthermore this would apply to all but one sect of Christianity following the belief that God hates everyone that's not in the right cult. This is a lot more clear in older versions of the Bible that haven't been mangled in multiple revisions. Besides the misquoted scripture, even if they aren't excused and aren't saved, do you honestly think God is happy when people sin? When they leave His presence? When He has no choice but to condemn them? If you do I doubt you're a Christian. Nothing in Christianity points to a God that acts like a tyrant or warmonger. He cries over those lost and those astray. He wants His children to come back. Maybe I didn't make it clear, but that's what I was saying. I wasn't saying that everyone He loves is saved. No, but He still loves everyone, even if they are sinners. I never said anything about excuses, just that God loves everyone, so not only is the scripture misquoted, but it's irrelevant to the point I was making.

It seems like a lot of people here like condemning others and hating groups of people in the name of God and calling it righteous. I guess "love thy neighbor" is supposed to say "love thy neighbor as long as they believe what you believe, otherwise treat them like their worthless and ostracize them so they come to hate God."

>>9550

You sound like a sodomite apologist. Gtfo libshit

>>9165

I'm a mormon and when we say there are other gods, it just means there are other beings that have progressed eternally to heavenly perfection. Angels are gods, people will become gods, Jesus Christ is a god. He is not THE God but he is a perfected being. Christ created the Earth therefore he is the god of the earth or the master of the earth. God the father, a separate physical being, created the universe and therefore is the Father of all things. Just like adam is the father of humanity but my dad is my father

>>11681

So if you just make up new theological definitions you can call yourselves monotheists, nice

Let me know how that works out at the judgment

>>9270

>comparing the SDA to the Mormons

Are you actually retard?

Freemason cult.

I had recently joined the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-Day Saints and I just began writing this

>>9292

>>9297

neat brainwashing. At least it's a religion with the Amendments involved.

First Amendment rights, bro

>>9057

The only religion that I know of that's more polytheistic than Mormonism is Hinduism. So seeing as one of the defining doctrines of Christianity is monotheism, no. To accept Mormonism as Christian, I'd also have to accept Scientology as Christian since they're both "churches."

>>11681

>God the father, a separate physical being, created the universe and therefore is the Father of all things.

Modern Mormonism teaches that. That's not the classic doctrine though.

>I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know…that he was once a man like us….

Joseph Smith, "King Follett Discourse"

>Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar that through which we are now passing

General Authority Milton R. Hunter - The Gospel Through the Ages, 1945, p 104