/christianity/ - Christian Theology & Philosophy

John 5: 10-18

>So the Jews said to the man who was cured, “It is the sabbath, it is not lawful for you to carry your pallet.” But he answered them, “The man who healed me said to me, ‘Take up your pallet, and walk.’” They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Take up your pallet, and walk’?” Now the man who had been healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had withdrawn, as there was a crowd in the place. Afterward, Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you are well! Sin no more, that nothing worse befall you.” The man went away and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had healed him. And this was why the Jews persecuted Jesus, because he did this on the sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working still, and I am working.” This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8: 21-25

>Again he said to them, “I go away, and you will seek me and die in your sin; where I am going, you cannot come.” Then said the Jews, “Will he kill himself, since he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come’?” He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.” They said to him, “Who are you?” Jesus said to them, “Even what I have told you from the beginning.

John 8: 57-59

>The Jews then said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

John 10: 30-33

>I and the Father are one.” The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?” The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

>>8045

>John

One God, three distinct individuals with he essence of God.

>>8046

Are you cherry picking the bible?

>>8045

That's pretty convincing, especially the last one. So God is two then?

>>8046

>THIS evangelist doesn't count because reasons, but the evangelist that I cite does because reasons

Okay, I'll play your game.

Matthew 3: 16-17

>And when Jesus was baptized, he went up immediately from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him; and lo, a voice from heaven, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

Matthew 9: 2-3

>And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.”

>>8049

In substance, God is one, but there are three co-equal and co-eternal members of the Godhead.

The Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God

But the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Spirit, and the Spirit is not the Father.

Jesus alludes to this mystery in John 10: 30 which I cited above, where He said "I and the Father are one."

>>8049

>>8050

In addition, that's also why Jesus can distinguish between Himself and the Father in various passages of Scripture.

The three are united in essence, but distinct in personhood.

>>8050

Jesus was just one of the greatest prophets and teachers of all time.

Being the son of God doesn't mean you are the same or equal to God himself; and the stuff about Jesus being God or the son of God was probably added hundreds of years later by gentile converts to Christianity who couldn't let go of their pagan traditions who wanted to make idols and worship "God in the flesh"

>>8052

Well now that we know you're Muslim, why weren't you honest at the outset?

I'd much rather have a forthright conversation about our differences of belief than for you to come in here and seemingly concern troll citing the Gospels.

Jesus makes actual divine claims for Himself in the gospels (the most notable being the "Before Abraham was, I Am" in John).

He receives worship from people in the Gospels, something that should only be given to God, and yet He doesn't correct anyone.

But, given that you think the Gospel was "corrupted", let me ask you, on what basis do you say this? Are you not aware that all of the earliest manuscripts of the Gospels have these elements in them?

>>8053

>Well now that we know you're Muslim, why weren't you honest at the outset?

You don't have to be Muslim to realize that Jesus as a god is based on Roman mythology and makes no sense for a Jewish sect.

>>8054

[citation needed]

We already have a thread about this topic. Don't feed him.

>>7311

sage

hide

>>8046

But Mohammedans use select verses of John to prove Mohammad is prophesied about in the bible.

>>8056

Sometimes wonder if it is Muslims or LARPers

>>8046

So what reason do you have to invalidate parts of the bible, are you a Muslim?

>>8051

>>8050

What three? You just proved two.

>>8054

Jesus was not a jew, and Christianity is not jewish.

>>8052

https://papacyrefuted.blogspot.com/2019/03/answering-islam.html

You will meet mohammet in hell.

>>8075

>>8073

Well, i'm christian and i need arguments on debunking Jesus was a roman invention or Jesus never existed. Thank you.

>>8364

Because you have to prove existence, not the other way around. That’s science, christ tard

>>8364

>Jesus was a Roman invention

The Messianic prophecies in Hebrew predate Rome.

>Jesus never existed

The Bible is a historical source.

Josephus is a non-Christian historical source.

These two alone satisfy basic standards for historicity of any ancient. Secularists just apply a double standard for Christ.

>>8365

History is not a natural science goober.

We have historical documentation of the life of Jesus, the onus is on you to prove why it was all just a big conspiracy to make up this figure.

>>8366

Thank you. :)

>>8050

>Godhead

>Implying God has DID

I never understood the confusion about the trinity/unity. I always thought it's a complete non-issue that's relevant to literally nothing whatsoever and contributes nothing to Christian faith, doctrine or belief.

Where Jesus is God or a uniquely godly man is kind of irrelevant, he remains Jesus Christ and all but some truly esoteric cults worship and revere him in a very direct way.

>>8052

>pagan holdovers

Welcome to every religion ever, mate. That's like half of practiced Christianity, 80% of Islam and present in the essential precepts of Judaism.

Genesis in it's entirety is a pagan holdover.

>>8075

Not defending anon's retardation but Christian morality IS an extension of Greco-Roman Stoicism. That aspect of Christianity distinctly and uniquely Roman which is why it's not mirrored in Judaism or Islam.

>>8073

>Jesus was not a jew

He was literally a jew, though.

>>8439

>always thought it's a complete non-issue that's relevant to literally nothing whatsoever and contributes nothing to Christian faith, doctrine or belief.

Romans 10:9 NASB — that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

If you don't confess Jesus as Lord, you are not saved.

Lord here meaning God.

>>8440

>Jesus as Lord

Other than there being other interpretations of this it is, again, completely irrelevant dogma bothering in the broad scheme of things.

>>8441

What is the message of Christianity? The gospel.

What is the gospel? The good news about how to be saved from damnation via Jesus.

Soteriological issues are the most urgent of all, and the Divinity of Jesus is a soteriological issue.

Contrary interpretations would see the same urgency but in the inverse: that unduly raising Jesus to the level of God constitutes a false gospel (arianism).

>>8442

Say I'm wrong but I don't think God would be terribly bothered whether you regarded Jesus as an extension of God or as the mortal son of God.

Maybe I'm thinking too protestant but it still seems like a pragmatic non-issue.

>>8443

I'm saying you're wrong because it's in holy scripture like I just shared. Without understanding Jesus to be God, you will go to hell.

Read John 1 as well, "the Word was God".

There is nothing Protestant about what you're saying because it violates the reformation doctrine of Solus christus.

>>8444

>protestantism

>unified

I never said Jesus wasn't God, I believe that Jesus being God is more correct to the scriptures.

I mean, to be specific, I don't believe Jesus is God because I don't believe in God(boo, hiss, burn the apostate!) but within the context of Christian theology it certainly seems like the correct position(that Jesus is God).

That said, this is why I emphasized it having no pragmatic relevance in the broader scheme of things since, in practice, all Christians worship, revere and pray to Jesus and from the outside all it does is look like pointless division and bickering.

To me it's one thing where, were it that I was a Christian, I'd be content to let people be wrong if they chose to.

>>8445

I know that's what you're saying. I'm telling you why we see it as a hill to die on.

Christ already answered this

>My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me…I and the Father are one.

HE IS ONE

HE IS THE BREAD

OUR LORD AND GOD IS OUR ONE TRUE LOARD

fuck i hate you people and your word salad

>>8479

U ok?

>>8495

Wow, a modern day pharisee. Sometimes I imagine our Lord in the Garden, and imagine His agony knowing that He was to suffer, and that the majority of humanity would STILL reject Him.

>>8495

"For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."

– St. John 5:46

>>8439

>He was literally a jew, though.

No he was not. A jew is one of three ethnic groups that converted to pharisaism/talmudism/judaism (three names for the same satanic religion). Jesus was a Judean, nothing to do with jews. There are no jews that descend from Judeans. Judeans were the descendants of Yehudah. Ashkenazi jews are khazars who converted to talmudism, they descend from Ashkenaz, hence the name. Sephardic jews are north African mongrels that converted to talmudism and invaded Spain and then get kicked out. Mizrahic jews are arab mongrels who converted to talmudism and stayed in the middle east. It is disgusting that so many so-called Christians spit in Jesus' face and call him a kike, repeating the lies of the people our Savior clearly called the children of Satan.

>>8041

>shitsrael

>christianity

pick one and only one.

>>8536

>I can't tell the difference between biblical Israel and the modern country created by kikes based on lies

You need help.

Fuck jesus

Fuck christians

Fuck catholicism

Fuck the bible

>>8595

Are you a literal baby?

Is Jesus God?

>>8605

Yes, John 1

Yes i hope he is real.. :(

>>8607

Jesus? What cause do you have to doubt it?

>>8608

yes i do, i lack some knowledge

>>8567

Mary is not God you fucking tard.

>>8611

holy virgin Mary the one who conceived Jesus well she is not a God

>>8611

No I mean what are those specific causes you have to doubt?

>>8612

Mary is not holy. She is just a woman. And what does you response have to do with anything?

>>8615

>>8611

Mary was made holy by the grace of God, just like you and me by salvation on account of faith.

You're making us look bad. Dont call someone you disagree with a "fucking tard".

>>8616

Being saved is not being holy. You're making yourself look bad. Don't tell people not to call fucking tards fucking tards. Anyone who claims Mary is God and thus proves the trinity is biblical is absolutely a fucking tard.

>>8634

Holy is not an exclusive term for Divinity. To say Mary was holy is not to necessarily say she was God, especially not the way I just did.

1 Peter 2:9 NASB — But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;

Was Mary saved? Yes, she was full of grace. What is grace? Forgiveness of sins.

Are the saved made holy? Yes, see above.

Here's another passage you should read up on

James 1:19-20 NASB — This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; for the anger of man does not achieve the righteousness of God.

>>8636

>Holy is not an exclusive term for Divinity

I didn't say it was. I said saved is not holy.

>To say Mary was holy is not to necessarily say she was God

I know, which is why I very clearly and explicitly asked WTF your idiotic post has to do with anything. Are you retarded?

>1 Peter 2:9 NASB

The bible wasn't written in English you knob. It doesn't say holy.

>>8567

Catholics belong on >>>/christian/

>>8711

The Mother represents the human body or flesh. The body of Christ. Being born of a woman is the only way to be born into a human body upon the earth.

She's not to be prayed to; No Biblical figures are. Jesus makes it very clear to come to him with your prayers.

I'm not Catholic.

>>8611

I said nothing about Mary.

The Mother represents the flesh or human body.

You idiots see Mother and think Mother Mary because of Catholic brainwashing.

I'm explaining the Trinity in a relateable way: The family unit.

Humans created in the image of God (Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.).

How about this, so you asses don't get tripped up again.

Spirit, Mind, Body. The three things that make one human being.

They are three seperate things but together they make a human being.

It's the same with God. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Three sperate entities that together are God.

Pretty much. God can take you anywhere in the universe according to mark twain, as long as you get past saint peter

Try to stomach watching “mark twain heaven” on YouTube. I cried at the end. Jesus merely forgives your sins, god is the babino

>>8750

The Mother represents the flesh or human body of God (Son of Man)*

since the only way to be born a man is to be born of a women.

Another example of the three distinct persons that together are God.

Galatians 4:4-6

God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!"

God (Father, Son, Spirit) sent God the Son to be born of a woman into a human body. Then God (Father, Son, Spirit) sent God the Spirit into our hearts, cryin, "Father (God the Father)".

>>8750

Oh, so you're just retarded?

>>8052

>Jesus was just one of the greatest prophets and teachers of all time

The main thing He taught people was that He is the son of God. When people questioned his authority to teach other things when he was young, He told them His authority came from His Father.

You cannot believe that Jesus was a great teacher if you believe his fundamental message was wrong. That's like saying someone is a good driver despite having car crashes daily. It is not logical.

I get the feeling Muslims try to argue this line because they're afraid of offending to the point where we completely refuse them audience. You don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, so the only logical option is that he's a nutter or a liar.

But calling him a liar or a nutcase would be coming on too strong, wouldn't it?

We are not going to instantly shut you out because you challenge the validity of Jesus' claims. We welcome the discussion. What DOES piss us off is using illogical reasoning, because it shows you are not interested in the truth and are wasting our time.

We must know the truth, whatever the cost and however painful it may be to accept.

>>8041

Father = God the creator

Son = the word

Holy Spirit = the truth

your breath and the words you speak arent separate from you. they are 1.

>>8777

W I T N E S S E D

>>8762

You have no understanding of it. All you've done is criticize others with no offerning of your own.

You don't even know! You thought He was one until now. Now you think he's two! >>8049

It's like you never even heard of the Trinity!

You think you know something but you can't articulate it. You don't know, then, fool!

>>8842

>You have no understanding of it

Of course not. Your random insane babbling is completely nonsensical. Nobody can understand it.

>You thought He was one until now.

What are you talking about? I've always known God is the duality of Father and Son. I am the one that started all this insane trinitarian shit flinging by pointing out that the bible clearly establishes God as two.

>It's like you never even heard of the Trinity!

Of course I have heard of it. That's why I have been telling you heretics that it is wrong.

>You think you know something but you can't articulate it.

What are you babbling about?