No.1523 [Last50 Posts]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M9JO9BUovoI fucking hate this thing.
I think it's easily the most scrubby weapon in the game and up there with the phlogistinator in terms of how much you should kill yourself if you use it.
Here are the many reasons why I hate it.
- Knockback. The knockback is irritating as fuck to jumping scouts, jumping demos, soldiers and it can pin people in corners, it can juggle you.. The knockback is like being airblasted by tiny dicks.
- Range: Holy shit the range on this thing is annoying as fuck how it can shoot in a 360 degree circle in a large sphere and it isn't immediately noticeable.
- Jitter: When this is shooting at you your screen jitters which can make it annoying to hit the damn thing. This makes the next issue all the more annoying.
- Tiny hitbox: This fucking thing has a tiny hitbox and can hit you from ages away which means that if you have a shitty aim it's pretty hard to hit. Can be frustrating trying to hit this thing with pills.
Spamability: Requires only 100 metal (easy as fuck to acquire), engineers can almost indefinitely spam these. Making it cost just ONE more metal would balance it much more fairly.
Cheapness: I don't like getting killed by aimbots. If I did you'd find me playing MVM or the numerous fucking single player FPS games out there and not against people. Getting killed by this incredibly easy to spam, easy to set up little aimbot is incredibly cheap.
- Forces you to play differently: Oftentimes you cannot fuck up a mini if you're playing scout or Pyro. Minispam can force you to change class, usually if you're good you can use skills to outmaneuver other players who are using classes that would typically counter you but not minis they fully shut down Scout/Pyro.
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No.1525
minisentries are underpowered
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No.1527
>>1525It's a playstyle that makes the game less fun for everyone not using it. Not only that but TF2 often operates on 'skill' translating into 'kills' and the more skillfull you are the more effective you are. However, with mini sentries this mechanic simply isn't present and I'm not okay with allowing this glaring contradiction to mess up the game.
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No.1528
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No.1529
>>1527Minis are annoying when some fag builds them when you just wanna fuck about and DM, but when playing seriously the lack of firepower and frailness become pretty apparent.
Yes they shut down scouts, sentries do that.
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No.1534
I never understood the minisentry whining. They're easy as fuck to kill. They have never annoyed me.
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No.1536
>>1529I don't hate the concept of a minisentry I just think that their current implementation is wrong.
I think that they need to be reworked.
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No.1543
INCREASE HITBOX
MAKE IT COST 130 METAL
DONE
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No.1544
>>1543the first one is already implemented you fool
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No.1546
>plr_hightower
>be engie
>both carts are at the final rising platform things
>few people are actually trying to play the objective
>walk out of spawn and put a mini sentry between spawn and the cart
>go back into spawn and wait for scouts and other weak classes to try and approach the carts
>get tons of kills giving my frontier justice tons of revenge crits
>whenever a soldier or demo destroys my mini i just walk out and put another in the same place
Literally the easiest strategy I ever had.
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No.1547
Or you could just not suck as much
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No.1556
I'd be fine with removing the absurd knockback, but that's it. The whole point is to make engie less of a camper and make you rely more on your shotgun/pistol and give you more freedom on offense
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No.1557
>>1556Any fix would be a gud fix at this point, I'd be more in favor of anything that forces Engineers to develop proper DM skills. A lot of new players just camp as Engie for their first 500 hours because aiming is hard.
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No.1572
Increase cost to 130 metal
Limit vision to 90 degrees in front of minisentry
There. fixed.
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No.1586
>>1572BUT THEN PEOPLE WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT WHERE THEY SHIT OUT MINI SENTRIES
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No.1590
>>1523>jitterit's called aimpunch b00b
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No.1599
>>1523How to fix engi:
-Remove sentries
-Increase cost of cost of building and upgrading other buildings
-Increase health of engineer to 150
-Double the health of the dispenser
-Replace pistol with a lightning-gun-esque weapon that does about the same DPS as a level 1 sentry. Alt-fire on this weapon fires a brief short-circuit like effect that destroys incoming projectiles, costing 75 metal.
-When using the lightning-gun while within a certain radius of the dispenser, the DPS is increased. The increase is dependent on the level of the dispenser, so a level 1 dispenser will give a slight increase in damage, while a level 3 will provide a DPS similar to that of a level 3 sentry
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No.1607
>>1599>how to fix engi>take out his primary means of offense>make him only useful when using a specific gun>make wrangler, sc, and pistol unusableAre you actually retarded?
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No.1609
>>1607I guess I wasn't being clear:
The lightning gun would replace the pistol, ie become the default weapon
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No.1610
>>1609ie without it you are the most boring class in the game to play
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No.1611
>>1610I dont even see your point. Basically any class would be the most boring class if you removed their main weapon
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No.1612
>>1611Except, save for the rocket jumper, you cant take away the soldiers rocket launcher, there will always be another rocket launcher. If you chose to use the pistol instead of this lightning gun, then you are replacing his main weapon.
Thats not even mentioning how the gun you describes is basically an underwhelming flamethrower
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No.1615
>>1612Forget the unlocks; thats not the point. I thought it was just implied that the wrangler and pistol wouldn't exist.
How is it at all similar to a flamethrower except that they both fire continuously?
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No.1616
>>1615Continuous dps and alt-fire to counter projectiles
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No.1618
>>1616Oh yeah. That makes sense, actually. I suppose it could do without the alt-fire. But still I wouldn't call it an "underwhelming flamethrower". Its meant to allow the engineer to either play like a normal engi if they decide to build up a level 3 dispenser,(similar to just gaurding a level 3 sentry) or playing out on the battlefield with a more offensive playstyle (like when using a mini).
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No.1619
>>1618Except why push engineer into some new role? He already fits a niche and has a few unique playstyles
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No.1620
>>1619He really wouldn't be in a new role, though. He would still be used for area denial, but in a way that would require more skill, would be more fun to use, and more fun to play against.
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No.1621
>>1620From how you are describing it, it sounds like YOU are the sentry and just camp next to you dispenser. I promise that is way less fun to play, and just pathetically easy to play against
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No.1622
>>1621I don't see how this would lead to camping any more than the current situation. You still have a shotgun, and more health, so roaming around would be encouraged. How would this be pathetically easy to play against?
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No.1623
>>1622Because a sentry counters scouts, but a good scout should be able to dodge this no problem
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No.1624
>>1623If the engi is terrible, sure. I dont see any problem with a great scout being able to take on an awful engi
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No.1625
>>1624Not really, the best engi's tracking cant get that same 100% hit rate. Scouts would indirectly become unbalanced by losing a hard counter for something that it can deal with
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No.1643
>>1625Admittedly it wouldn't be as hard of a counter, but a scout would still have no chance vs an engi of equal skill in a head on fight near a dispenser. It might be slightly easier to avoid the engi, but remember the engi can still move away from the dispenser somewhat and maintain the improved dps.
Anyways, the softening of a single counter wont break the game. Its not as if scout suddenly becomes OP on servers without engis.
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No.1647
So all these people that complain about the minisentry, there are ways to take out the spammers.
>Sniper
>Explosive classes
>tank bullets as heavy, kill shitters
>anyone with a medic
>flank engie as scout, pistol whip his white ass
>Homewrecker as pyro, 1 hits the thing
>spy
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No.1658
>>1647Soldier still loses a lot to minis, about 40 health and two rockets, unless using direct hit. An engi can deplete a soldier's entire clip with no effort, and peck at the soldier with his shotgun/pistol.
Heavy vs mini is not good for heavy, unless he's right on top of it. Thing's so small most bullets miss, and heavy takes ~100 damage before it is destroyed at mid range. Bad trade for something the engi can replace instantly, and the engi can run away from the heavy forever, dropping minis along the way.
Gunslinger engis stay within the range of their minis, and a scout that's getting aimbotted against cannot beat a guy who has 25 more health than him and effectively endless pistol ammo.
Have you ever really home wrecked a mini? Too much knockback to get that close.
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No.1659
I fucking hate this thing.
I think it's easily the most scrubby weapon in the game and up there with the phlogistinator in terms of how much you should kill yourself if you use it.
Here are the many reasons why I hate it.
- Knockback. The knockback is irritating as fuck to jumping scouts, jumping demos, soldiers and it can pin people in corners, it can juggle you.. The knockback is like being airblasted by tiny dicks.
- Range: Holy shit the range on this thing is annoying as fuck how it can shoot in a 360 degree circle in a large sphere and it isn't immediately noticeable.
- Jitter: When this is shooting at you your screen jitters which can make it annoying to hit the damn thing. This makes the next issue all the more annoying.
- Tiny hitbox: This fucking thing has a tiny hitbox and can hit you from ages away which means that if you have a shitty aim it's pretty hard to hit. Can be frustrating trying to hit this thing with pills.
Spamability: Requires only 130 metal (easy as fuck to acquire), engineers can almost indefinitely spam these. Making it cost just ONE more metal would balance it much more fairly.
Cheapness: I don't like getting killed by aimbots. If I did you'd find me playing MVM or the numerous fucking single player FPS games out there and not against people. Getting killed by this incredibly easy to spam, easy to set up little aimbot is incredibly cheap.
- Forces you to play differently: Oftentimes you cannot fuck up a sentry if you're playing scout or Pyro. Sentryspam can force you to change class, usually if you're good you can use skills to outmaneuver other players who are using classes that would typically counter you but not sentries they fully shut down Scout/Pyro.
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No.1660
>>1659What are you, freakin stupid. Apples to oranges, obvious difference between the preparation needed for a real sentry and a mini sentry.
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No.1661
>>1660Buttmad scoot detected
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No.1662
>>1660A medic can easily dispatch a minisentry by himself with a crusaders crossbow.
A medic can't easily dispatch a level 3 sentry without a partner and possibly an uber.
Checkmate, atheists.
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No.1669
Minisentries are weak, if you get killed it's because you weren't paying attention for any reason. Offensive minisentries are impossible if the other team is pushing at all. In that case even, that engi is spending more time trying to camp some hidden corner of your base than protect his own.
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No.1673
I don't really like using regular sentries anymore. On all the servers I frequent the things just crumble, and Uber charge isn't even needed most of the time. It's just a pyro exploiting tight corners, sniper exploiting range, or soldier and demoman exploiting a soldier and demoman. Is there any maps and locations to make me feel useful as an engineer using a regular sentry? Or should I just stick to dropping minis and keeping a level 3 dispenser for the team near by?
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No.1678
>>1673Sentries are great for keeping back f2pers. Anyone worth their salt knows how to take care of a sentry. It isn't an end-all defense solution. You need to rely on your team to support your sentry nest too, which can depend on where you place it. Obviously, you would need to keep it away from places that pyros and snipers can easily kill it. I think there are always exceptions, for instance if your team is just terrible at defending or won't stop rushing, you need a sentry at least to slow down the enemy though the sentry is inevitably going to be destroyed.
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No.1707
Hi, I main engineer and I think minisentries are horrendously overpowered. They take no skill for me to use, and I actually do think they could use a nerf to make them take more skill to use. As they stand I can just push a few buttons and all the scouts in the area have to clear out. I think we should go with
>>1572It's a solution that doesn't make them anything other than more skilled to use. Now with only one sentry that has limited vision you will have to think and play defensively like you know, a defense class.
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No.1708
>>1707Thanks for suggesting my idea!
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No.1715
I just had a strange idea
What if the minisentry was changed to fire a constant laser that does a small amount of damage over time (slightly less DPS than it currently does)
It would become more visible than that dumb light on top of it and it wouldn't be so dangerous at glancing shots
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No.1716
>>1658>Engie vs SoldierAbuse explosives and stay just out of the sentry's LoS, kill engie with the remaining 2 rockets when he steps out to replace it
>Engie vs HeavyYou have a fair point, but you're still effectively pushing an engie further back to his spawn and you can close the gap after the first sentry is taken down by running to the next sentry that's still setting up
>Scout vs EngieYes, the sentry is an aimbot, but if you know where it is, you can circlestrafe around it, provided you can get close due to poor placement or you can camp behind the corner.
Also how many engies with minisentry spamming techniques do you see with good aim.
>Pyro vs EngieI'm not a bitch, so I don't mind tanking 40 damage as a pyro to run up to the sentry and 1 hit with the homewrecker, then puff the engie away and kill him with the shotgun while he's in the air.
All these arguments on BOTH sides have been purely situational anyway, but there's so many ways to take out minisentries that people don't need to bitch and bitch and bitch about them.
I guess what I'm saying here is
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No.1719
>>1716Scout literally cannot circle strafe minisentries no matter how close. It's been recorded and is shown in the TF2 Wikipedia minisentry demonstration.
http://youtu.be/TxqVAaQpqQw1:44
You are implying the engineer set his mini behind a wall and then never fought back. A mini in an open area (where they are always placed) will take more than a second for a pyro to reach, and the engi will likely be pecking with his pistol as well. If the engi wrangles it, the pyro may as well be bumrushing a heavy.
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No.1744
>>1719I've strafed around mini's before as a scout, but I was also right on top of them.
and you can still rush the mini as a pyro when the engi runs back for metal or health like the little bitches they are. You also have a team playing with you.
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No.1754
>>1744How do you get on top of one in the first place, is the engineer a fucking retard wrangling it but not shooting it? That's not a reasonable counter, that's like saying heavy beats sniper because sniper cannot shoot straight upwards and heavy is on top of sniper's head.
And don't forget, the enemy also has a team, making bumrushing even stupider than it already was.
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No.1755
Nah, I play mini sentry
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No.1801
>>1755I find myself doing more damage with the shotgun. Mini is great on blu for protecting tele.
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No.1853
At this point, the Mini is balanced. Hitbox is bigger than a Level 1 Sentry and it no longer gets the health regen on buildup. Add the Wrangler bullet spread and what you have is a building that only works when the other team ignores it. With it, Engineer is viable. Without it (or more nerfs), you might as well just delete Engineer. 100+x metal would not work. Engineer is only relevant because it can slap two down now. Force him to one and not only will there be less support (since you won't even have enough to build a dispenser, as well), but the first one will die in a second and then the class has literally no other options but to find metal or just DM.
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No.1896
>>1523My objective complaint about minisentries is that they are too small for most hitscan weapons with any kind of spread to hit them at all outside of a very close range unless you wait a second for your spread to center again to fire a perfectly accurate shot, which depending on your weapon could make taking the sentry down take far too long.
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No.1914
Only bad players struggle to deal with Combat Engineers. Nobody wants to hear about your emotional bereavement. Try being less shit at the game.
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No.1915
>>1754You don't have to be literally on top of it to strafe around it. You just have to be very close; practically in melee range to do so.
P.s. Scout isn't supposed to counter Engineer, fucklenuts. If you can close the distance before it starts shooting you or can safely Pistol it, destroy it. If you can't, find another route, use the Bonk or guard the flank while you wait for a better class to destroy it.
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No.1916
>>1914ITT: people who prolong problems by believing the game should be balanced by what a soldier can easily defeat.
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No.1936
>playing sniper on turbine
>there's a minisentry right outside of the hallway to our intel
>shoot it
>peek back out
>there's another minisentry
>shoot it
>peek back out
>another minisentry
Long story short I destroyed 5 minisentires literally one after another.
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No.1952
I honestly don't get the hate against the damn things. Ya, the knockback could be fixed, but it's not like it's difficult to destroy them. It adds a different means of getting passed and pushing the enemy. You fucks saying it's overpowered simply can't fucking play. Want to know what I do when I a mini sentry kills me? I go out and fucking destroy the damn thing, just like a regular sentry. What's annoying is all you fucking scrubs complaining about something that's been a part of the game for years now and haven't been bothered to come up with a way to work around the damn things.
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No.1974
>>1952This.
I've never understood the issues with minisentries when real sentries are always the things that fuck you no matter who you play as. No one complains about those though, so I guess what people are trying to say is they'd rather deal with mass aimboting tools of uber-rape than face up against a pitiful little distraction that can be exploded with very little effort.
Fuck it, it's tf2. No matter what the weapon, it's always OP to SOMEBODY.
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No.1979
>>1974The difference lies in where the can be reliably placed.
Good luck setting up a level 3 sentry in some of the places people liberally shit out minisentires.
It also depends very heavily on what class you're playing. A scout will have a harder time with a minisentry than a soldier or demo will have with a level 3 sentry.
Think of what a level 3 sentry is. It's not an "unstoppable beast of mass carnage", it's just a tool of area denial. This makes them very easy to counter by just staying out of the area they're denying access too until one of your teammates who can sentrybust takes care of it.
The minisentry is suppose to trade in area-denial to get some extra damage to your frontlines. The problem is that it still works as effective area-denial to scouts and pyros, only instead of only being in a few predictable places like level 3 sentries are, minisentires can be fucking anywhere. Then even if you do manage to clear it the engineer can set it back up immediately at full power.
It doesn't matter if something is far more powerful if it's confined to a few locations.
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No.1980
>mfw scout main ragequit near me
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