/strek/ - Star Trek

>>30757

While true, Wesley's career in Starfleet is never acknowledged or expanded upon. His official end, as far as the tv series was concerned, was fucking off with the traveler to go explore other dimensions. Him showing up in Nemesis was just a cameo because LeVar Burton wanted involved in the movie. Even Wheaton didn't know what the fuck happened with Wesley or why he was even wearing the uniform. He showed up for a single scene and didn't even have any lines in the final cut.

>>30756

>2. Kids didn't react negatively to Wesley because he was a self insert, made specifically for them not to grow bored.

I thought he was made specifically in the image of what Roddenberry thought he himself was like at that age.

>>30760

>While true

Rest of the post is unnecessary.

>>30763

The only truth is that Wesley showed up in Nemesis wearing a Starfleet uniform. There was no plot written for him. No planning. No intended development for his character. He wasn't even originally in the script.

Don't pretend that a last minute favor from one of the other actors constitutes some kind of character development.

>>30757

>In Star Trek Nemesis he was in starfleet academy. He's at Riker and Troi's wedding in a starfleet uniform.

The TNG movies are in the same category as STD: anyone with at least two brain cells to rub together doesn't count them as canon. Anyone who does think that they should be canon is a blithering idiot with neither critical-thinking faculties nor taste. Wesley showing up in Nemesis in a uniform for a single line-less cameo scene is exactly as canon as a goddamn SNL Trek-parody sketch.

And even among the comically low bar of "bad Trek movies", Nemesis is firmly at the bottom. At least the TOS movies each had some sort of redeeming quality. #1 was visually and aurally gorgeous and told an interesting classic sci-fi "what if" story. #2 was a fucking masterpiece of compelling drama and character arcs with a fantastic villain. #3 was a fun rescue-adventure story. #4 had more good character arc stuff and tied up the 2/3/4 trilogy with very a satisfying happy-yet-earned ending. #5 was awful, but at least it was hilariously awful: it's the kind of cheesy movie you can put on in the background and laugh at while making dinner or something. And #6 was a brilliant tale of burgeoning peace between cold-war enemies while the cast put in 110% in their swan song performances.

That's more than can be said for any of the TNG movies. We lurched from "let's recycle ST 6 exploding bird-of-prey footage and steal some uniforms from the DS9 set because we're lazy and cheap" to "the borg now have a queen even though that contradicts literally everything we saw of them on TV, lol whatever" to "we forgot to use the blue-screens in Picard's fight scene for their original purpose, well fuck it and release it to theatres as-is anyway" to "the main cast is visibly miserable in every scene in Nemesis and obviously wants this tired movie series to just fucking end".

>>30764

>>30765

All this autism is in response to the simple statement that no, Wesley did not leave starfleet for good, which is canonical.

>>30766

Also, if the Star Trek films are not canon then DS9 isn't either, since the loss of the enterprise in the film was why Worf went to the station.

>>30767

>Also, if the Star Trek films are not canon then DS9 isn't either, since the loss of the enterprise in the film was why Worf went to the station.

Doesn't count. Worf only briefly mentioned the loss of the Enterprise. He didn't go into detail. It's easy to retcon how the Enterprise was lost without killing off DS9 canon itself. Wesley left Starfleet in the TNG TV show. The TNG movies were universally shit and don't matter. And that's that.

Also, do you REALLY want to get into canon nitpicking with regards to Trek? Want to start with Lore's "damaged" emotion chip that's miraculously repaired in Generations? Or Scotty declaring how Kirk must have pulled the old Enterprise out of mothballs AFTER Scotty personally examined the gaping hole into space that Kirk was just sucked into? Or how about the Federation's invincible one-shot planet-killing ultraweapon named "Genesis" that the galaxy's general public knows all about, that's never used or mentioned after The Voyage Home? Where are the Organians after TOS? Why can a falling-apart Enterprise-A fly into the centre of the galaxy in a few days (closely pursued by a standard-issue Bird of Prey) when it would take the top-of-the-line century-more-advanced USS Voyager decades to travel the same distance? Did WW3 happen in the 1990s or not?

"Star Trek canon" is clusterfuck of gargantuan proportions, and basically a contradiction in terms. Admit it. Accept it.

>>30767

Flawed logic. If we start from the assumption that the movies aren't canon, it does not follow that anything which coincides with what happened in the movies cannot be canon. It merely implies that that particular portion of the movies happened to coincide with what canon is, despite the movies themselves not being canon. For instance, if some fan writes a very detailed fanfic about a based negro, a slug-slut, Punished O'Brien, and a screeching space-Muzzie harpie on a Cardassian space station, and DS9 is released just a week later, it does not make that fanfiction canon. There merely happens to be an overlap between the fanfiction and what happened onscreen.

>>30768

>Want to start with Lore's "damaged" emotion chip that's miraculously repaired in Generations?

As I remember it, the chip itself was never actually damaged. It worked fine, but as Soong had designed it for Data specifically, installing it in Lore created various complications in his behavior. Since the chip itself wasn't flawed, and would theoretically work just fine if installed in Data, there's no reason to assume it was "miraculously" repaired in between the end of TNG and Generations.

He's a child prodigy with a good attitude, a good conscience, and a very promising future.

>>30768

>muh headcanon

Discussing Star Trek with you is impossible because you will shriek that everything you dislike is not canon, so then you can assert retarded shit like, Wesley deserves credit for never rejoining Starfleet and being the only character to permanently leave it.

By the same token, Picard is still out there on the Galaxy class Enterprise and Dukat is in charge of the alpha quadrant, since everyone knows having the prophets help Sisko was an asspull so let's ignore that.

>>30769

That is an assumption with no basis. You are just following a headcanon which makes it impossible to discuss anything with you.

>>30773

>You are just following a headcanon

No, I'm not. I never said I agreed that the TNG films weren't canon they are. Supremely retarded canon, but canon nonetheless. I said that if we start from the assumption that the TNG films are canon, it is flawed logic to assert that this makes post-Worf DS9 not canon. The point I'm making is that, regardless of whether it's correct to call the TNG films canon, the line of reasoning your are using is flawed.

>>30774

That is retarded. If a work references a fanfic as its backstory that fanfic is canonized. That's the way it works. Which Generations wasn't fanfic - it was written by the same people who wrote DS9.

If someone says the Enterprise-D was never destroyed in canon, then Worf's comments about it are false and it is invalidated. Or you get some bizarre vaseless claim it was destroyed offscreen.

>>30765

>The TNG movies are in the same category as STD

No you stupid fuck, your headcanon is not the be-all and end-all of Star Trek.

STD can safely be considered non-canon because of the IP bullshit. It is no longer the same entity making the series and they cannot legally make proper Star Trek, so it can legitimately be regarded as separate. If there had been no ownership changes, but the series had been otherwise the same, it would be canon. Shit canon, but canon. It's similar to how anyone who says the Star Wars prequels are non-canon is retarded, yet disregarding the post-Disney material as non-canon is entirely valid. The things that make official material non-canon are either there being outright contradiction (and then only as far as necessary to resolve the contradiction) or that those responsible for creation of further material do not have the authority to make legitimate additions to the body of work.

The answer is simple anyway. He was still buttbuddies with the Traveller, but he came back briefly for the wedding. So what if he wore a uniform? So did Q, but I don't see anyone claiming he had actually graduated from the Academy.

>>30788

>So did Q, but I don't see anyone claiming he had actually graduated from the Academy.

He's Q, for all you know he could have pretended to be Ezri Dax because he has a diaper fetish.

>>30788

>The answer is simple anyway. He was still buttbuddies with the Traveller, but he came back briefly for the wedding. So what if he wore a uniform? So did Q, but I don't see anyone claiming he had actually graduated from the Academy.

Wesley wasn't Q. It would be out of character for him to claim he was in Starfleet when he wasn't. Certainly Picard would give him shit about it.

>>30783

It was this post >>30775 with a typo fixed.

>>30790

>It would be out of character for him to claim he was in Starfleet when he wasn't

Every member of the main cast was out of character during that movie, so he'd fit right in.

>>30789

So that was how he dealt with Sisko. After the captain chimped out and punched him instead of being fun like Picard, he needed to find a new way to mess with him.

Every so often, Q lets his real face show through a little bit, just for a brief moment when the lighting is poor, just enough for Sisko to see out the corner of his eye, but when he looks back it's normal again. The kind of thing he can only dismiss as imagination, but that leaves the worries niggling at the back of his mind about why he's seeing things like that. Until after a year of both that and regular changings, suddenly one day as he's taping the diaper together, he gets the same reveal Q gave Picard in Tapestry, except without getting laid first.

Let's ignore the implications of Ezri getting Worfed and hooking up with Cuckshir.

>>30791

Um, okay sure. Wesley clearly permanently stayed out of starfleet. What a great observation that was, not contradicted by Wesley's next fucking appearance.

>>30795

>contradictions or retcons mean there is no canon

You're absurd. This is straightforward - Wesley went back into Starfleet. There's no need for stupid bullshit and hand-waving about unrelated things. Otherwise nothing is canon.

>>30796

>Otherwise nothing is canon.

I'm glad you finally agree with me.

>>30797

I don't. You are retarded and therfore nothing can be discussed.

>>30788

>It's similar to how anyone who says the Star Wars prequels are non-canon is retarded,

Everyone know only Star Wars (1977 film) counts, ESB alone introduces countless errors and contradictions. You know the rest of the franchise doesn't gel with it when they have to retcon the fucking title.

>>30795

Is that cameo even in the movie? I honestly thought it was a deleted scene

>>30788

There's different tiers of canon. Series is higher than movies, is higher than spinoffs, is higher than novels.

Wesley is at the same time in and out of Starfleet, across the canon spectrum. You have to drop the capeshit mentality that all stories happen for real in a shared universe, and calmly go back to your logical self when you were still aware that this is just different works. Written, not recounted from history.

why do faggots make clickbait template threads?

why do faggots respond to clickbait template threads?

>>30807

Shut up, you newfag geek. Not everyone is here to read your dissertation.

>>30805

That isn't how star trek canon works. Novels and games are not canon, dialogue trumps visuals, newest work can retcon older stuff.

>>30765

at the very least, Generations is definitely canon, DS9 The Way of the Warrior directly mentions the destruction of the Enterprise.

>>30825

>he can't leave the capeshit mentality

Remember when you were still aware this is a tv show, and not straight facts from a parallel universe?

>>30831

>canon didn't exist before Disney hurrr

Are you like twelve or something?

>>30825

Wonderful, only STD is real

>>30853

Canon as an official statement from the powers that be, sure. But that's as arbitrary as any anon, despite all the cells in your redditor's body screaming at once that everyone is required to believe.

I'm just saying you are unable to hold on the once basic, once widely understood hard facts that different media can be in conflict.

>>30857

>retcons mean there is no canon

This is such a retarded conversation. What this stemmed from was someone making a blanket, incorrect assertion and having a tardout that he was incorrect about Wesley Crusher of all things. From this we are now arguing some existential bullshit about 'what is canonicity.' What you are defending is a statement like "Klingons have pink blood" because they had pink blood in Star Trek 6, but in all subsequent portrayals their blood is red and the writers said they retconned it because they felt the pink blood was stupid.

The statement 'Wesley permanently left Star Fleet' is false. He rejoined.

>>30854

CBS Trek is, by law, not original star trek, but a derivative work. It is a different universe.

>>30864

>The statement 'Wesley permanently left Star Fleet' is false. He rejoined.

Didn't you just say it's fine to retcon things because they're stupid? Wesley rejoining Starfleet is stupid. It goes against his character arc at the end of S7. Although we could honestly impose that criticism on the entirety of Nemesis: it's stupid, it breaks character arcs, and it breaks established lore, so it shouldn't be considered canon.

>>30870

>What was probably just a shitty decision on the part of the writers to force a cameo that nobody cared about.

We already know the answer. LeVar Burton wanted Wheaton involved in the movie in some way, so he asked them to make him part of Nemesis. They wrote nothing for him. He had one scene with dialog that got cut. They made no effort to explain or provide backstory for what he was doing there or why he was in a uniform. Beyond that, there was no canonical reason or explanation why he was there.

Chances are they had an extra dress uniform that fit him closely enough, so they gave him that to wear, instead of making a whole new costume for the few minutes he'd even be on camera.

>>30869

>Didn't you just say it's fine to retcon things because they're stupid?

Nobody retconned it. It is your stupid headcannon because you are a turbosperg who wants to believe something gay and stupid that is contradicted by canonical events.

>>30871

>he was wearing a starfleet uniform but no one said he was in starfleet so therefore he wasn't and Wesley never rejoined starfleet.

There's a certain level of autism common in these forums. You are far past it.

>>30873

You're mixing up the production and relationship of the actors with the hard, indisputable canon of the show. I don't know how else to explain to you that a completely meaningless detail, like putting Wheaton in a Starfleet uniform for one scene, does not mean that there was any established story to go with it.

>>30864

>What you are defending is a statement like "Klingons have pink blood" because they had pink blood in Star Trek 6, but in all subsequent portrayals their blood is red and the writers said they retconned it because they felt the pink blood was stupid.

It's canon that they had pink blood in Star Trek 6 (we see it right there onscreen) and it's canon that their blood was red in other appearances. Whereas something like Turkish Star Trek or the Webster-TNG crossover is unofficial and non-canon.

With any luck, Star Wars will provide us with the true reductio ad absurdum soon enough: when Disney Wars starts blatantly overwriting important stuff from the OT, does it "count" or is there a point where it becomes too fucking retarded no matter who holds the copyright? ST has only dodged this bullet because of the weird legal situation.

>>30881

>Webster-TNG crossover is unofficial and non-canon

way to burst my bubble there anon

>>30874

That isn't how it works. It's like saying Kelsey Grammar wasn't in Star Trek because he had a brief cameo when he was on set. It's not some 'they had an extra uniform and decided to stop the movie so Wil Wheaton could be in the film' bullshit. That's completely out of your ass.

It's very, very simple: he's onscreen in a Starfleet uniform. He's in Starfleet. You are being obtuse because you want to believe something retarded.

>>30900

tbh that assertion is open to challenge

>>30917

>You are being obtuse because you want to believe something retarded.

more like he *doesn't* want to believe something retarded

Personally, I can't accept Nemesis as canon. I don't mean that I have some highfalutin reason to reject it, just that I can't watch it and process it as actual Star Trek. I only see the actors in make up pretending to do Star Trek. It's like the fictional equivalent of derealization disorder or something.

>>30919

I can't reject Nemesis as canon because there's no concrete reason to; "it's utter garbage" isn't one.

Fortunately, since it comes last chronologically out of all canon material (aside from some brief time travel that reveals nothing), it can easily be ignored.

>>30917

>In a 2012 convention appearance, Wil Wheaton talked about his appearance in this film. According to Wheaton, he found out about it and that it was going to be the last one after a chance run-in with LeVar Burton and that it was Burton who went to the producers and asked that Wheaton be included in the film. Wheaton said that only a few days later, his agent got an offer from Paramount to appear in the film and Wheaton agreed without even knowing what he would be doing, only that he would be again portraying Wesley Crusher. Wheaton also said that he asked John Logan what Wesley was doing there, was he still a Traveler and just visiting or had he stopped traveling and returned to Starfleet? Wheaton said that Logan told him he didn't have an opportunity in the script to decide that one way or the other and it really didn't matter as far as the rest of the film went and that it would just have to be one of those things left to the audience to decide which would be the case.

Straight from the faggot's soy-filled mouth. Wheaton didn't even know he was going to be in the movie and Burton was the one who asked the producers to include him.

Because he tells them how beautiful their chin whiskers and feminine penis looks… Seriously, he's made himself appeal to the too-fat/too-ugly/too-tranny to fit in with true normies but not actually nerfy enough to be hardcore fans crowd. They haven't watched enough episodes of TNG to even understand why Weasely is disliked but they consider them selves Nerds and nerds like Star Trek!