eb01c2 No.4288
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eb01c2 No.4289
Define it.
- The property of all possible outcomes being equally likely.
- A measure of the lack of purpose, logic or objectivity of an event.
If we are talking about these, then to me it is a question of determinism. If determinism exists then randomness does not.
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eb01c2 No.4290
>>4289
But what, pray tell, determines that determinism be determined as such?
Check mate.
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eb01c2 No.4291
>>4290
time to end my own life
how random!!!! Xd
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eb01c2 No.4292
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eb01c2 No.4297
Well, I'm pretty sure it does.
In the quantum realm, physics seems to suggest that true randomness exists.
As for dice, they are only semi random, if you could observe the angle at which they are thrown, the area they will hit etc perfectly, you would be able to predict the results. Dice, akin to the chaotic pendulum, are simply hard to predict, since even the smallest of changes result in different results.
If you want to get into the free will debate here, it doesn't work even with random things that break down causality. Either your choices are deterministic or completely random, but non of these 2 is what people call free will. A person acting deterministic is a robot and a person acting entirely random is teh penguin of DOOOM, still, non of those 2 are what we consider a being with a free will.
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eb01c2 No.4298
>>4297
>If you want to get into the free will debate here, it doesn't work even with random things that break down causality. Either your choices are deterministic or completely random, but non of these 2 is what people call free will. A person acting deterministic is a robot and a person acting entirely random is teh penguin of DOOOM, still, non of those 2 are what we consider a being with a free will.
I think that this is an important thing that people miss when they point towards the randomness that we see in quantum physics and interpret this as making room for free will. Interestingly, some people seem to be comforted by this idea
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eb01c2 No.4299
>>4298
Exactly, I've always had that thought but never seen anyone state it, lol.
These people seem to disagree, though:
http://www.informationphilosopher.com/freedom/standard_argument.html
>>4297
There are deterministic interpretations of quantum theory. What do indeterminists make of that?
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eb01c2 No.4300
>>4297
The question I raised was not one of free will vs determinism it was that if determinism exists, that is, if you can explain all actions/reactions in terms of a cause then randomness does not exist since the supposed result of a dice roll, for example, can be explained in terms of its causes.
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eb01c2 No.4301
Does probability exist? There is always a 50/50 chance that something will or will not happen, you can only know afterwards.
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eb01c2 No.4302
>>4301
>There is always a 50/50 chance that something will or will not happen
.
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eb01c2 No.4309
>>4301
>There is always a 50/50 chance that something will or will not happen
>you can only know afterwards.
This is a contradiction.
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eb01c2 No.4310
No, everything is perfectly designed like a pair of boobs.
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eb01c2 No.4311
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eb01c2 No.4331
>>4288
I think the more important question is "What makes things random"
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eb01c2 No.4333
No, OP, it doesn't, IMHO, all randomness is really just unperceived order.
Consider: I shuffle a brand new pack of cards 8 ways to Sunday. I could say, truly, the order of cards is random. This 'truth' is because of my limited frame of reference. However, in the grand scheme of things, with All as your referent, the pack of cards isn't random at all.
Look at it this way. Quantum theory, they don't know why the fuck anything does what, let alone how. Shits beyond random there, things don't get decides untiltheres an observer...
All this 'randomness' and yet I can still pick up a pencil and let go 100 times, and each time it will fall. There are no coincidences, Op, nothing is Random.
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eb01c2 No.4336
>>4333
But what determines this order? Once again, check m8.
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eb01c2 No.4337
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eb01c2 No.4338
>>4337
Pretty much. Like I said, Order is defined by referent to All things that exist, at all times, at all pplace. Like with the card example, even though I shuffle them 80 times, that itself gives it its order... Its not random, it happened for a reason...
If anything was to be random it would have to be free of cause. Nothing could have influenced its conception, its genesis.
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eb01c2 No.4339
>>4338
The relation of cause is a relation of necessity. What is the necessity of necessity? What causes cause to be the case of the world?
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eb01c2 No.4350
You people really need to stop conflating multiple fields in one discussion. Free will is a property of the brain and has nothing to do with quantum physics, causality, or probability theory.
If you want to define randomness as the uniform distribution fine, now the 'concept' exists. Asking whether anything in nature can be precisely modeled by the uniform distribution is a different question entirely and should be posed as such.
If you really seek the truth I urge you to stop comparing oranges to apples.
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eb01c2 No.4352
>>4339
A force we have yet to discover or already have (God). Either way true randomness can not exist
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eb01c2 No.4353
>>4339
Oh no, now you're just to do the "if this created that, then what this" scenario.
You do realize everything needs a starting point right?
"but if everything needs a starting what was the starting point of the starting point? check mat-"
Because the starting point was always there, there was never a time where it never existed.
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eb01c2 No.4354
>>4353
>it just IS, OK?!
Pathetic dogmatic givens won't get you anywhere here, small son.
At least Hegel can give reasons why being is.
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eb01c2 No.4357
>>4353
What if there is no need for a starting point?
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eb01c2 No.4399
>>4357
Then there would be no existence.
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eb01c2 No.4400
yes but only in computers and shit
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eb01c2 No.4468
Si, But understanding the volume of it seems impossible. Not enough red pills.
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eb01c2 No.4997
Hell yeah it does check mah dubs
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eb01c2 No.5034
epistemic randomness as in unpredictability, sure
metaphysical randomnes as in acausal top jej eventuation independent of experience, no
metaphysical randomness posits an entity acting out of accordance with its identity
which violates the law of identity, and is therefore incoherent
even if the notion were both coherent poopies haha & instantiated, you could never know if and when
it happens, since any instance of metaphysical randomness is consistent with epistemic randomness
you could never rulel out epistemic randomness
also, there's nothing logically incoherent in positing metaphysical determinism
and there are deterministic xd interpretations of QM
so, you can't really argue for metaphysical randomness either conceptually or empirically
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3b5885 No.5355
Randomness approximately exists the way the speed of light is approximately infinite for the purposes of Newtonian physics, and the way the size of atoms is approximately zero.
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3464e0 No.5713
>>4288
No.
Actually the more you make random decisions the more it ends up the same result. Scale nullify randomness.
However there is far too many parameters we cannot take into account, so it might as well exist.
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