/film/ - FILM

How about some newer westerns.

Is this one good? I think I'll try it. I see it compared to Leone and Peckinpah, but who knows…

>pic related

Saw it not so long ago, Extremely good stuff

>>3558

I found the original Django pretty pointless, it was entertaining as a film but it was too straight foward for me, just a guy with a heavy machinegun wanting money.

>>4617

You don't like mountains or wide open spaces? Men charting their own path in life? The outdoors and rugged individualism are a big part of these films.

Italian westerns are a little different than the American original, adding more gunfights, action and gimmicks … but also uglier landscapes.

I don't know what to recommend that you'd enjoy. Maybe you'd like westerns in a modern setting, like Paul Newman in HUD or THE LAST PICTURE SHOW.

Best western I've seen lately

Stewart is overshadowed by some great character actors.

>>4801

That's a good choice. The Searchers is one of the best – despite certain aspects that don't quite work.

I like the way scenes play out at a distance within a large frame. You have to pay attention to catch all the subtleties between characters, like at the beginning inside the house. And when there are finally closeups, it has a bigger impact.

>>3040

Oh god this film watched it yesterday.

and I was easily impressed once the film got going.

It really was worth watching.

for a western set in modern time

it felt like the good the bad and the ugly but with the horse being replaced by cars and trains

also the can soundtrack makes this film as well.

I would classify Ramona as a hidden gem. It's not a traditional western, more of a historical romance set in the mid-1800s. I liked its unexpected take on the cultural interactions between Spanish colonials, local Indians, and white settlers in the early days of California.

One of the reasons I was curious about this film was the fact that the Ramona story has been performed annually at an outdoor amphitheatre in Hemet, CA since 1923(!).

I like "Dead Man" a lot.

It's probably not too typical for a western though, but the settings, plot and soundtrack is really nice.

>>2063

These.

I think it's cool to see Paul Newman before he'd developed his regular onscreen persona

Some people say he was imitating James Dean too much but I didn't think so

Movies about the early 1800s in America either focus on the antebellum South or the New England states. Most westerns take place after the Civil War when there was a certain level of civilization.

I might actually watch this because it takes place in the 1820s western United States and I can't think of many other movies with that interesting setting. The land was more empty, more wild and much more dangerous -- a true frontier. Are there any good early westerns (or movies about frontiersman) from this time period?

Maybe we need a thread about underrepresented historical periods.

>>7567

Bank robbing and fence-cutting sound like Face of a Fugitive with Fred MacMurray

Maybe that's it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_of_a_Fugitive

Unforgiven, the Searchers, No Country for Old Men, True Grit (remake), Stagecoach, My Darling Clementine.

I saw BONE TOMAHAWK recently and liked it quite a bit. What do you guys think of it?

The film is the directorial debut of a western novelist who has a firm grasp of storytelling within the genre. His film is quite faithful to the spirit of optimism and adventure of classic westerns, minus the cynicism that entered the genre later. I guess it's only just missing some advanced horse-riding stunts...

>>9268

I agree the imprisonment scenes were a little weak. I was hoping they'd move outside and have a scene with the whole tribe.

Generally I thought the main characters were unique and interesting in a genre full of cliched archetypes. Hopefully the director can keep working and improving.

I thought the landscapes looked pretty cool so I was surprised that it wasn't shot on "real" location instead of the Paramount Ranch. I'm not enough of an expert to recognize landmarks from other films that used the ranch, but I'm going to start paying closer attention.

>>2063

Sorry for pleb level, what is pic related?

This will always make me laugh and then start repeating SHAAAYNE for the next 5 minutes

>>10014

kind of a crotchety old fart isn't he

>It was almost the feature debut of emerging television director Sam Peckinpah, who penned the original draft screenplay, and it was almost the only Western to be directed by Stanley Kubrick before he too left the project. The eventual director was Marlon Brando, stepping behind the camera for the first and only time.

Westerns are the cinematic essence of rugged individualism and conservative values ... or are they? Under closer scrutiny, it seems many classic postwar westerns actually celebrated the enlightened force of government.

<The fact that the two most famous stars of Westerns, John Wayne and Clint Eastwood, have been identified with politically conservative causes may have misled critics into thinking that the genre itself is inherently conservative. In fact, the American West has proved fertile ground for liberal and even left-wing storytelling.

<Crooked and corrupt businessmen people the frontier in many Westerns. In particular, owning land, especially large tracts of land, is often presented as the epitome of evil in Westerns, which tend to take the side of the little guy—the dirt farmer, the sheepherder, or the shopkeeper. Often some kind of public official—a sheriff, a U.S. marshal, or a frontier military commander—is shown to be necessary to curb the greed and selfishness of a cattle baron or a saloon owner. At the same time, many Westerns celebrate the power of government, specifically the federal government. When they ask how the West was won, often their answer is: through federal land grants and the building of the transcontinental railroad on the basis of federal subsidies. It is no accident that the man who made many of the classic Western films—John Ford—also made the classic New Deal tearjerker, The Grapes of Wrath.

That book title reminds me of westerns made by actual commies. Has anyone seen these? I haven't but I've got Lemonade Joe on my hard drive. It looks great and I already like the director Oldřich Lipský.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostern

The Ostern (Eastern) or Red Western (also known as "Borscht Western") was a genre film created in the Soviet Union and Eastern Bloc as a version of the Western films that originated in the United States. The term refers to two related genres:

Proper Red Westerns, set in America's 'Wild West', but involving radically different themes and interpretations than US westerns. Examples include Lemonade Joe (Czechoslovakia, 1964), or the East-German The Sons of Great Bear (1966) or The Oil, the Baby and the Transylvanians (Romania, 1981), or A Man from the Boulevard des Capucines (USSR, 1987). These were mostly produced in Eastern European countries like East Germany and Czechoslovakia, rather than USSR.

Easterns (Osterns), set usually on the steppes or Asian parts of the USSR, especially during the Russian Revolution or the following Civil War, but presented in a style inspired by American western films. Examples of these include The Elusive Avengers (1966) and its two sequels, White Sun of the Desert (1969), Dauria (1971), At Home among Strangers (1974), The Burning Miles (1957), The Bodyguard (1979), and The Sixth (1981).

While obviously influenced by Westerns, Easterns form a specific and distinct genre. The word "Ostern" is derived from the German word Ost, meaning "East".

Red Westerns of the first type are often compared to Spaghetti Westerns, in that they use local scenery to imitate the American West. In particular, Yugoslavia, Mongolia and the Southern USSR were used. Some of the East German films were called Sauerkraut Westerns.

>>4802

The ending is beautiful and sad. He saves the girl but is cut off from the future.

>>4834

Vera Miles is Jeffrey Hunter's girl.

>>9269

> Paramount Ranch.

All buildings have been torched by the Woolsey Fire. Only the church remains standing.

https://deadline.com/2018/11/paramount-ranch-western-town-burns-down-wildfire-1202499183/

I watched High Noon recently and I completely disagree with people who call it a communist Western. Based on its reputation and the time period when it was made, I expected hamhanded speechifying or maybe some sob story about the proletariat. There was none of that. Instead it was an excellent western with the best role I've seen for Gary Cooper.

John Wayne complained that the townspeople of High Noon were unrealistically cowardly. They needed a sheriff to do their dirty work. But he starred in films where the same thing happens. Rio Bravo in particular has a very similar plot to High Noon. And generally, western bit players make way for the alpha dog to face down the villain(s). It's true this behavior is not realistic, but why single out one film for a trope followed by most? These are fictional stories that attempt set the stage for conflict and usually heroism. Realism is a lower priority.

Furthermore, the John Ford films Grapes of Wrath and How Green Was My Valley had moments where characters went on diatribes for the downtrodden. Did Wayne ever complain about the overt lefty content from his favorite director? If not, it's another instance where he unfairly singled out High Noon.

Because of the inconsistencies in his criticism, I think John Wayne took issue with High Noon not for its substance, but out of jealousy for the acclaim Gary Cooper received. Both men completed for a Best Actor Oscar that year. Cooper won.

A late review for this one, but Buster Scruggs was a nice surprise given my low expectations. The Coen Bros darkly humorous sensibilities worked well for an anthology of violent, macabre short stories. It was much better than their tiresome remake of True Grit. My favorite was the prospector; I didn't even recognize him since I missed the opening credits.

>>13814

I am aware of that, but according to Anthony Quinn there is more to the story.

I don't think John Wayne hated Cooper. I only said he was jealous about losing to him. I don't think that's unreasonable.

One more blogpost on High Noon, its detractors, and the HUAC angle

https://iceboxmovies.blogspot.com/2011/05/high-noon-1952-fred-zinnemann-and.html

http://web.archive.org/web/20170828210457/iceboxmovies.blogspot.com/2011/05/high-noon-1952-fred-zinnemann-and.html

<Zinnemann did not agree with Carl Foreman that that the story was an allegory for McCarthyism. “With all due respect, I felt this to be a narrow point of view,” the director wrote in his autobiography. “To me it was the story of a man who must make a decision according to his conscience.” Nevertheless, Zinnemann, like Foreman, became embroiled in the controversies surrounding the film. During a disastrous screening in July 1952, Zinnemann's son, Tim, overheard an executive in the bathroom muttering, “What does a European Jew know about making Westerns, anyway?” And the debate over the film’s allegorical subtext has always refused to go away. Although some conservatives—indeed, the film’s own star, Gary Cooper—admired Carl Foreman’s insights into violence, patriotism and human weakness, other conservatives cried foul. Howard Hawks and John Wayne took their hatred of the film to their graves. There is a still a temptation today to compare High Noon to Rio Bravo and determine whether or not one film is better than the other.

>>13848

>Any more info on this?

A couple of books about Zinnemann talk about his journeys, one (A Life in the Movies i think, there's only one autobio) talks about his time doing The Search, and how he was shocked by the orphans around, which touched him as around this time he was informed his parents were among those in the ghetto burnings of Poland. When searching that part i found a tough book (name seems highly biased, Protocols of the Elders of Zanuck) that says Montgomery Cliff was devastated seeing all the chaos in Munich and being fed movies about gas chambers while doing the film, then they toured Palestine Israel circa 1948 and Fred saw a good chunk of the war there in person as he had to travel around.

The Search is a clear cut message about those who are left, and then if it is true the animosity between Fred and Otto Preminger (AA book i got around in spanish, Billy Wilder the intermediary) it flames up the chimney if we believe that old rumor that Zinnemann was a candidate for directing Exodus, and implies our man here was something of a Neturei fellow if he did receive and refuse that, which has no proofs i could find.

Projections, but it is true that after 1966's A Man for All Seasons he got a project for MGM, an adaptation for Man's Fate which is about several characters in an urban warfare setting fighting their personal ideologies, setting being a sudden people's revolution fighting a legitimate power and the regional opposer. Sounds endearingly familiar, he worked on it for 3 years, didn't receive any offers either so that's better, and a couple of weeks before filming he got his papers cancelled and sued by MGM as they wanted their money back.

And he made A Man for All damn Seasons before this, who knows what happened but then he started doing The Day of the Jackal, a movie about a group of angry OAS veterans contacting a hitman to do a job on the president De Gaulle for surrendering their old algerian homeland. Nobody bought it and old Fred had to take it to England and France where it happened as a co-production. Then he made Julia. I find extremely odd how can you pull the plug on such a guy, especially when all his buddies were doing several films at the same time, Wilder had the fancy Sherlock Holmes, Preminger had 3 comedies, Siodmak got the boot due to low sales so only one after AMFAS, Wyler made a popular comedy with Funny Girl, plenty of his actors were established, AA knew this guy was the real deal.

Strange but it's safe to say he got some sort of boot or was in somebody's list, but for the love of my life i cannot find any strong proof he was an anti-zionist now that i'm reading about it other than a rumor, her actresses' idolatry of him and 2 out of 3 of them being anti-zionists (Jane Fonda and Mrs. Redgrave, Meryl Streep we cannot say the same), dude married a catholic and made a couple of movies about christianity (The Nun's Story) which to be honest isn't very flattering to the church but had a lot of work in it, needing Fred to read and live among a lot of his natural enemies.

That brings me to the counterpoint, what says this guy isn't a zionist? for starters objectively he would've not been kicked by the industry at that point but it happened before (Trumbo), he saw both crucial conflicts in jewish history, being firm in one (the persecution) but nonexistent in the other (the resettlement) even so some of his late projects play with that sentiment... in the opposing way if we play with that.

I will read more next time before implying such a juicy tidbit, that might be possible but we are stretching it quite a bit, probably got carried away due to him being a prominent analogy in the Rudolph Schindler vs. Richard Neutra arguments, especially in the former's biography and work documentation. Zinnemann definitely made bank playing as a jew in Hollywood, that's for sure.

Today the perpetual outrage crowd have discovered a 1971 John Wayne Playboy interview. So, here it is for your reading enjoyment.

Full issue: https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/PlayBoy/Playboy%201971/5%20-%20May%201971.pdf

Interview only: https://pages.shanti.virginia.edu/Wild_Wild_Cold_War/files/2011/11/John_Wayne_Playboy_Int2.pdf

>PLAYBOY: What kind of films do you consider perverted?

<WAYNE: Oh, Easy Rider, Midnight Cowboy—that kind of thing. Wouldn't you say that the wonderful love of those two men in Midnight Cowboy, a story about two fags, qualifies? But don't get me wrong. As far as a man and a woman is concerned, I'm awfully happy there's a thing called sex. It's an extra something God gave us. I see no reason why it shouldn't be in pictures. Healthy, lusty sex is wonderful.

>PLAYBOY: Angela Davis claims that those who would revoke her teaching credentials on ideological grounds are actually discriminating against her because she's black. Do you think there's any truth in that?

<WAYNE: With a lot of blacks, there's quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can't all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people

>PLAYBOY: Are you equipped to judge which blacks are irresponsible and which of their leaders inexperienced?

<WAYNE: It's not my judgment. The academic community has developed certain tests that determine whether the blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically. But some blacks have tried to force the issue and enter college when they haven't passed the tests and don't have the requisite background.

>PLAYBOY: Many militant blacks would argue that they have it better almost anywhere else. Even in Hollywood, they feel that the color barrier is still up for many kinds of jobs. Do you limit the number of blacks you use in your pictures?

<WAYNE: Oh, Christ no. I've directed two pictures and I gave the blacks their proper position. I had a black slave in The Alamo, and I had a correct number of blacks in The Green Berets. If it's supposed to be a black character, naturally I use a black actor. But I don't go so far as hunting for positions for them. I think the Hollywood studios are carrying their tokenism a little too far. There's no doubt that 10 percent of the population is black, or colored, or whatever they want to call themselves; they certainly aren't Caucasian. Anyway, I suppose there should be the same percentage of the colored race in films as in society. But it can't always be that way. There isn't necessarily going to be 10 percent of the grips or sound men who are black, because more than likely, 10 percent haven't trained themselves for that type of work.

>>14281

>Well, we conquered every other piece of land

>We were and are not responsible in any way as a race

You are alive and living in one of the most successful societies on Earth. Your ancestors were far from irresponsible.

>nor superior to them.

So which is it? Did Whites conquer everyone else or are Whites not superior? Or is it just god's will and all successes are attributed to god instead of the people who made it happen?

>brutally destroyed most cultures we came in contact with.

Like every other human group who wasn't killed several thousands of years ago. Do you think niggers would treat you anywhere as well as we treat them if they had the upper hand, like they do in South Africa where the government allows killing Whites? Do you really believe they'd pass laws on their countries to give you several advantages to the detriment of their own people?

>Not entirely.

What do you mean not "entirely"? The only thing niggers are better at that I can think of is running, and not even all niggers since only some nigger races can run really fast. They also mature faster (physically but not intellectually since it takes years for niggers to be able to recognize themselves in a mirror while humans are able to within a short time), but that isn't worth the price of being dumber.

>>14304

Not to mess with the nest but the chinese started the massacres with the Zhao kingdom genocide, the main precursor/ancestor to the mongolian steppe nomads which became nomads in small-ish part due to the persecution and the literal worship these areas have for their ancestors led to bad blood for centuries, boiling the pot for mass-scale butt revenge that spawned an empire.

Also the classical Aztecs were already overthrown when the spaniards came, you are thinking of the Mexicas, which were the chimp-tier lower strata of society (including tons of small foot soldiers and non-nobility elite warriors) that forcibly expelled the older rule, hence why Cortez got overwhelming support by loyalists when he managed to explain his route of action. Aztecs were butchers but they were more about making taxed-to-hell satellite states with an aligned leader on helm, also never attacked the Northern tribes even when they knew about their trade routes and exotic goods.

You are not all that wrong, just wanted to point small details, even when your examples were asking for it. Although half of the injuns in the Mississippi area and Southwest were pacific (plus an entire age behind to be a continental rival) and had no business being executed by power-drunk brits, see the Crow tribe for example, always helped the colony rule and were vanished for being red in the Manifest Destiny days. These are cromwellian anglos we are talking about

While it is true Europeans have spilled some beans along the way, i have no doubt somebody else would've done the same if they were in a similar situation some other day, it just happened to be some moors searching for their redemption by their perceived homeland and later a couple of brits led by someone who might or might not have been a brit. Vikings didn't bother with some Athapascan/Inuit archers, Macedonians didn't want none with black jungle demons, supposedly the chinese didn't either with a bunch of Cahitan.