c5d4f9 No.4995
Haven't seen one of these yet, thought I'd make one. Let us discuss Reformed Christianity, the Reformed leaders (Zwingli, Calvin, Knox, etc.), various Reformed confessions (Helvetic Confessions, Westminster, etc.), and of course our central text the Holy Bible which contains the word of God and which we look to alone for doctrine.
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f4996a No.4999
The problem with reformed theology is that you can take any selection of random verses from the bible and make them seem to support anything
Reformers think God doesn't save everyone because he doesn't want to save everyone, and only wants to save the elect? Well 2 Peter 3:9 directly contradicts that
>The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
so does 1 Timothy 2:4
>[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
not to mention the most important:
John 3:16
God so loved *the world* that he have his only begotten son so that *whomever* believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life
who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
There's also this BTFO of the 5 points of calvinism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-vKLszXeEo
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69ea15 No.5000
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e5f16c No.5006
>>4999
>you can take any selection of random verses from the bible and make them seem to support anything
You certainly proved that premise in this post
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107eb7 No.5007
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617c54 No.5008
>>4999
>What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (Romans 9:22,23)
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20eb69 No.5013
Feels good to be better than all the reprobates of the world because God arbitrarily chose me, am I right my calvinist bros?
Everyone else should just kill themselves tbh lmao
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8a4114 No.5022
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4d024d No.5025
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617c54 No.5030
>>5013
Pride is a sin, anon. As is stated in article 15 of the Canons of Dort:
>In no way, however, are we to pride ourselves as better than they, as though we had distinguished ourselves from them.
No one deserves to be saved and you shouldn't act like you're superior if you are.
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264b57 No.5033
BEEP BEEP I AM ELECT BOT BEEP BEEP
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fbe1df No.5041
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69d0a0 No.8032
Reminder to listen to Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God.
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69d0a0 No.8036
Also, today's the 510th anniversary of John Calvin's birth.
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2f4ff6 No.8037
>>8036
Thank God for Calvin, even if I don't affirm all his doctrines he was a hero
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3a19fa No.8039
>>8037
Calvin was trash, all university professors are trash, Socrates and Aristophanes were right about taking money for teaching.
>>5030
"Not by works, lest any man should boast" – St. Paul in the NT
The problem with Calvin is he adds trash arguments that contradict the NT. Read the NT before reading any academic opinion about the NT. If it contradicts the NT, it's wrong by definition. Jesus said he wanted everyone saved and St. Paul said salvation is available to everyone.
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c4f744 No.8040
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69d0a0 No.8042
>>8039
Amen, brother, we are not saved by works but by grace through faith.
But it seems to me you haven't told us what of Calvin's theology that you differ with.
Could you give us a specific point or points so we can discuss further?
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b1dcc4 No.8068
>>8039
Socrates and Aristophanes hated each other
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381d1f No.8080
>>4999 (Checked those predestined digits)
That's nice sweetie.
>>8036
Nice!
Happy B-Day Big Guy!
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69d0a0 No.8091
>>8080
What's the CRC like, anon?
I'm only familiar with Presbyterians and Reformed Baptists.
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381d1f No.8103
>>8091
Ah, sorry I'm not in an actual CRC. I just want to use the flag because it's the closest thing to "I'm Reformed" that's available. I miss the Calvinist Tulip flag.
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69d0a0 No.8130
>>8103
Not to worry, brother.
I'm partial to the burning bush flag used by old presbyterians, myself
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58a776 No.8136
>>8103
So where do you go to church?
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381d1f No.8151
>>8136
Reformed Baptist in GA, technically a part of the SBC, but it's not our main identity.
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58a776 No.8152
>>8151
What do you mean "not our main identity"
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69d0a0 No.8163
>>8152
I think he means that the SBC itself isn't reformed in theology, but gives room for individual churches to be.
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381d1f No.8175
>>8152
This >>8163, plus there's plenty of Southern Baptist churches that pride themselves in being Southern Baptist.
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58a776 No.8178
>>8175
If you are a member of an SBC church, you are a southern baptist. That is not at all incompatible with being a calvinist.
CRC practices infant baptism. They are presbyterian.
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e5f16c No.8199
>>8178
>CRC practices infant baptism
good
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69d0a0 No.8209
>>8178
>>8199
Let's not turn this thread into an argument over baptismal practices.
Plenty of non-elect undergo baptism, whether fully grown or still infants.
Rather, let me pose this question to all the reformed brethren on here:
What's your favorite passage of scripture and who in the history of the church is your favorite theologian?
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e5f16c No.8210
>>8209
>What's your favorite passage of scripture
The great crescendo of Romans 8:31-39, with Isaiah 44:10-20 as a close second because it's such a masterful rhetorical flourish.
>who in the history of the church is your favorite theologian?
(Assuming you mean extra biblical theologians) Francis Turretin
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69d0a0 No.8417
A blessed Lord's day to you all, brethren.
How was church today?
>>8210
Oh yeah, those passages are wonderful.
>Francis Turretin
I'm eager to look into his writings, how accessible are they?
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a04ee4 No.11885
>>4995
For me, it's the Westminster Confession of Faith. The best Reformed confession.
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3e1cc4 No.11891
>>4999
That not everyone is saved is a fact, predestination or not.
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c732c0 No.11893
>>4999
>Well 2 Peter 3:9 directly contradicts that
No it doesn't. You dropped the context of the verse. Follow the pronouns; he is speaking to believers.
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c1f54b No.12043
The problem with the Reformed is the same problem the Catholics have: They base their reading of Scripture on Augustine's entirely unbiblical definition of original sin. Total Depravity, as understood by Catholics and the Reformed, is unbiblical in its entirety.
Simply put: The Bible does in fact distinguish between "good" and "Righteous." Furthermore, it's arguable that it even distinguishes between "good" and "Good." Therein, its a flat out fact that Righteousness is incapable outside of Christ/The Spirit. However, "good"ness is still entirely possible, which is why secular people do "good" things all the time, and it's arguable that accepting the free gift of Salvation (which is not of yourselves. Eph. 2:8 is talking about the Gift being from God not the choice to accept it) is an act that is "good" rather than "Good" and definitely rather than "Righteous" because "Righteousness" is only possible post-in-filling of the Spirit
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515c1b No.12064
>>12043
>The Bible does in fact distinguish between "good" and "Righteous
>, "good"ness is still entirely possible, which is why secular people do "good" things all the time
Tell me according to Scripture, what does God think of actions, beliefs, thoughts, words, worship, prayers, etc. not done in faith in Jesus Christ?
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ed4aa4 No.12067
>>12064
It doesn't say what you're implying as a typical calvinist talking point: that every action of an unregenerate is a moral evil
I know you're thinking of Romans 14:23. Here's what the expositor's Greek testament says:
>To argue from it that works done before justification are sin, or that the virtues of the heathen are glittering vices, is to misapply it altogether.
Not that good deeds of the unfaithful mean anything in regards to their justification
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488406 No.12068
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dfb28d No.12070
>>12067
Actually, I'm not thinking about Romans 14:23 at all. I'm thinking about Romans 1:18-20, "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse," which Paul then builds upon in 2:14-16, "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do, by nature, the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus," which is reinforced by, " as the foundation for his rebuke of the division between the Gentiles and Jews in Rome (You know why the book of Romans was written, right?) as well as his apologetic for His ministry.
To be clear, I'm saying that Romans 1:18-20 says that God is known by all enough for them to be responsible before Him and Romans 2:14-16 reinforces that all who reject God's way are rejecting their own nature, as they're made in the image of God [which is why they're also legitimately guilty, they have to choose to reject that nature] while also saying that there are /some/ (I understand this as /very few/ according to a variety of other passages) who "Live as a Law unto themselves," and it will be counted as Righteousness to them, just as with Able, Noah, and Abraham.
This is why Paul goes into that, "I did not have sin until I new the Law but then I had sin," section. He's talking about how God judges those outside of the Law according to how they followed the little bit of His nature that remains within them, but the moment you know the Law, you're now held accountable to it. Like so, the moment you have the Spirit, you're now accountable /above/ the Law, to the Inner Law of the NT (Detailed but not at all completed in Mt. 5-7).
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dfb28d No.12071
>>12064
I mean… Do you have a verse that perfectly outlines God's thoughts on the actions, beliefs, thoughts, words, worship, prayers, etc. that are not done in faith in Jesus Christ of Nazareth?
My first thought would be Galatians 5, where the fruit of the Flesh and the Spirit are actively contrasted in a way that displays the Spirit's fruit as the favorable fruit.
If you're a KJV only type of guy, then Proverbs 15:26, when taken out of context, seems to suit the situation, "The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words," however, that's a translation that's based on far latter texts, which is why modern translations render it akin to, "Evil plans are an abomination to the Lord, but pleasant words are pure," so it's more about plans to do evil rather than thoughts that are evil (difference between having the thought, "I could steal this," and actually thinking through, "I want to steal this, now how can I do that without getting caught." I.e., meditating on evil, which is why the chiastic structure of the verse synonymizes it with, "He who profits illicitly troubles his own house."
What verse do you have in mind?
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07e9a1 No.12075
>>12070
This is another regular divide in reading between calvinists and everyone else, where calvinists read the subjects of Romans 1 as representative of all humanity while everyone else doesn't.
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03dfac No.12084
>>12075
I'd be delighted if you'd explain that, cause I ain't calvinist, and I'm currently arguing that the subject of Romans 1 is all of humanity..?
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