/sw/ - Star Wars

>>26689

I wasn't looking for a "everyone and everything sucks, there is nothing and no one worth caring about" story. Thank you for posting it anyway.

>>26690

…?

>>26692

Ignore the grammatically-challenged autist.

>>26689

That never made much sense to me… Palpatine wasted a valuable officer by rubbing on Vader's face that he could use the guy as a replacement, Vader killed the guy because of that…

But both know that Lauritta wasn't force sensitive. They could had dipose him in another story, dying to defend Vader for example, or whatever.

>>26715

Then it wouldn't be a self-contained parable. The whole point is that loyalty in-of-itself is not a virtue. For example, writers who are loyal to the Mouse in hopes that the mouse will be loyal to them get BTFO, Wendig and the guy who made Guardians of the Galaxy. Loyalty is only a virtue if you are being loyal to someone who is loyal to you and has your best interests at heart. Simply being a soldier that follows orders is not something to be proud of.

>>26693

But Gentis reward for his honor was death, both for him and his men.

>>26745

The good guys don't always win.

>>26751

>an Alderaani speaks wisdom

What hath the Maker wrought?

>>26689

This is totally out of character for Vader. He never senselessly kills imperials and even shows some degree of stilted comradery on occasion (the 501st comes to mind). Why would Vader waste a promising officer (who realistically posed no threat to his position seeing as he wasn't force sensitive)? This also doesn't make any real sense chronologically: Vader has only been Vader for a number of months at this point; there's simply no way Anakin would murder someone under his command out of petty spite.>>26689

>>26751

>>26753

Madness

>>27160

Well he did just massacre an entire order, children included, plus caused his own wife's death, so this relatively newborn Vader would be mentally unhinged and possessive of his new role. Also, its likely for Vader to be replaced since he's no longer as powerful as he was. He's severely crippled and not the enforcer Palpatine had hoped for. The other guy is even more crippled yet he's rising fast and has potential as a highly intelligent dictator capable of enforcing order and spreading fear via military means in a more effective manner than Vader can through his limited might.

>>27160

Also in a less likely scenario, chances are Sidious is just screwing with Vader to corrupt his soul some more by making him kill the closest thing he has to a friend right now in order to fuel his hatred and self-loathing some more.

>>27162

I think this is the more likely scenario, really. Sheev was insinuating that Vader was no longer irreplaceable. And while Vader has consistently shown care for the men under his command, emotional trauma will trump that ideal, especially for a Sith. The man is terrified of the people he loves dying or leaving him, remember. Since his dysfunctional, psuedo-paternal relationship with Sidious is the closest thing to an emotional connection he has left in the world, Vader is going to cling to it somewhat irrationally. To this end, he'll always make sure that Sheev sees him as irreplaceable, so that he has some measure of worth in his eyes. Sheev knows this, and because he's Sheev, he tells Vader that he could be replaced by this guy just to see what Vader would do about it.

>>27166

That actually does seem more likely if you put it like that.

>>27161

>Well he did just massacre an entire order, children included

In order to save his dearest love and his children, it's also possible he truly believed the Jedi were traitors and as Palpatine said they had to "catch them off balance" or there would be eternal civil war, which also was something that really bothered him.

>plus caused his own wife's death

It's hard to say if he ever believed that and it's certainly not true.

I also think that this Vader is a bit too much of a complete lunatic. Anakin wasn't a complete lunatic when he turned to the dark side. He was confused and emotional but he was reluctant to murder anyone and seemed to be doing things either to secure his new master, so he could learn the secret to keeping Padme alive, or to secure "[his] new empire" which he seems to genuinely care about.

>>27171

>wasn't a complete lunatic

>"new empire"

M8, he was completely drunk on power by that point. Also, didn't you pay any attention to the ending of III? As Palpatine said, "Darth Vader was a sick man in a mask!"

>>27171

> and it's certainly not true.

It was, Amidala died when her throat was fucked up by the inside. Vader killed her.

>Typho investigated her death further, though nearly every report told a different story. One thing they were in agreement on, though, was that Amidala had suffered some form of strangulation shortly before she passed away, with damage to her trachea and larynx and a fractured hyoid bone. Strangely, however, there was no damage or bruising to the exterior of her throat, and it was in pristine physical condition. Putting two and two together, Typho concluded that the damage had been inflicted through the Force;

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gregar_Typho/Legends#Clone_Wars

>>27171

Sorry m8, but that's not exactly how he comes across in Episode III. I think that argument would work better hadn't he been shown to just slaughter an entire room full of kids.

>>27172

>M8, he was completely drunk on power by that point

Drunk on power? Perhaps. But he wasn't a complete lunatic. He was using his faculties, thinking deeply but with great confusion. I submit again that he was doing what he thought was necessary to secure the future. His personal future and the future of his beloved government. Something he doesn't seem to be doing in the comic. Murdering a completely loyal imperial officer because Sheev said "he's pretty neat, maybe as cool as you lol" isn't what I'd call using your brain. Perhaps he did it because he thought the Emperor would be happy he picked up on the obvious implicit request to murder someone, but then the bit about not suffering rivals wouldn't really make sense. Then, why would you talk to a man before throwing him off of a building?

Considering how many times I've seen 3 I'd say it's pretty likely I've paid attention at least once during the ending - I don't appreciate the implication.

>>27174

At the end of Episode 3 the medical droid said there was no reason she should be dying. I see you're referencing some comic or something. I guess if you want to assume that's more canon than the films then sure, he murdered the fuck out of her, though that was obviously not his intention. I wouldn't consider that to be more canon than the film but I don't fault you for thinking that way, though I do find it distasteful that they decided to twist things like that. Even if we assume that's true I don't think it changes much. That is certainly a moment of confused anger - in that case.

>>27177

>Sorry m8, but that's not exactly how he comes across in Episode III.

Considering you and I came away with different interpretations of how he comes across, I don't see why you're so confident in asserting that. Furthermore I think you're missing the point.

What's with the "m8"? Is this some cool new facebook meme or something?

>>26693

Tohm had no way of knowing he was serving an evil regime. The "Empire" was in its absolute infancy at this point. For all we know, he could have started out as a cadet during the time of the Republic.

>yeah but Empires are necessarily evil

This is untrue. There is nothing inherently evil about the concept of Empire from the perspective of your average citizen, as the house of Fel later demonstrates. At this point in time, Palpatine was a stellar statesman, universally loved… a man who was promising to bring peace and justice to a corrupt and stagnant system.

>>27161

>massacre an entire order, children included, plus caused his own wife's death

He did this on the basis that the order was hopelessly corrupt and his wife, whom he didn't intend to kill, had betrayed him to that same order. Killing this underling served no real purpose - he represented no real threat to Vader's position as a Sith Lord and was a valuable and loyal asset. Vader is calculating and totally amoral; he never acts out of pettiness or spite. And yet that's exactly what he's shown to be doing here. It reeks of a left leaning author being too dense to understand the real motivations of Fascism; an author who is happy with writing off Vader as cartoonishly evil.

>>27261

>Tohm had no way of knowing he was serving an evil regime

Maybe not at the start of the coup. He probably had some idea by the time he saw Vader and Sheev choking people out and burning people to a cinder. Especially in the light of the Palpatine's anti force-user sentiment, and the idea that he was a poor old man that couldn't resist the Jedi's attack. If nothing else he knows that the official reasons for declaring a new order are largely bullshit, and that Palpy is actually a Sith Lord, and doesn't seem particularly bothered by that. Later, he betrays Trachta and kills those prisoners at Vader's order, and not for any particularly good reason. He might have went in blind, but Tohm knew what he was getting into before too long.

>>27263

>and doesn't seem particularly bothered by that

He was deep in the shit by that point and would have been tortured/killed if he deserted.

>kills those prisoners

Prisoners who, for all he knows, represent the very worst the galaxy has to offer.

>>27262

Did you even read the posts? He wasn't a contender for sith lord, but for a secular position as right hand man/potential emperor, but even that was just Sidious bullshitting to try and force Vader to cut off more ties. Also all of those actions were motivated by insanity and corruption. This was no different.

>>27261

Yes, that's Palpatine's public image, but at his core he's still a self-serving douche whose only interest is ultimate power and immortality.

>>27268

> but for a secular position as right hand man/potential emperor

In which case he doesn't interfere with the rule of two and poses no threat. At most, he's another Tarkin. Vader knows Sidious despises non force sensitives, so the rivalry angle makes absolutely no sense.

>Yes, that's Palpatine's public image

That is what I am saying, yes. Tohm has zero reason to belief that image is false for 90% of his career.

>>27273

To be fair, Vader at this point is paranoid and heavily insane. He killed his pregnant wife and believes he killed his unborn children as well. He might kill Tohm because Tohm reminds him of himself and he hates himself.

>>27281

>and heavily insane

Darth Vader is never portrayed as insane.

>>27283

Maybe not insane, but he isn't a stable man. And Sidious was leaning on Vader's insecurities, and said exactly the right things to push his buttons and send him and Tohn over the edge.

>>27283

He's completely subservient to a man who is responsible for ruining his life simply because he's the only attachment he has left and he suffers from all manner of internal conflict and mental instability to the point where his only purpose for living is to carry out the Emperor's will. In the end, all Palpatine wanted was to test Vader by having him kill anything that stood in his path to power like a true sith would. Also, Palpatine follows the Rule of Two with no intention of Vader ever succeeding him and will eventually replace him once Vader dies out, and Palpatine can outlive him. Regardless, if Palpatine was being serious, Vader would only be replaced as an enforcer of Palpatine's will within the Empire. Vader would still be his apprentice but not the person whom he trusts most or have him lead the imperial faction. So if Palpatine should die, he would likely rather him Tohm replace him as Emperor as Vader due to seeing him as a more competent ruler while Vader would simply inherit the title of Sith Lord but not the throne of the Empire.

>>27262

>Fascism

What? As stated elsewhere, the Empire is many things, and while it has some of the trappings of Fascism, it's misplaced to think that this is what it embodies.

>left-leaning

>exclusive from Fascism

Was it not Mussolini himself who declared that he had "never betrayed socialism"? I mean, Fascism differs in several key ways, but I would hardly call it separate from that ideological tree.

>not spiteful

The honorable Captain Needa would like a word with you.

>>27259

Perhaps? Hayden nailed the look, the intonation. It got worse by an exponent after he looked up and saw Obi-Wan on the ramp. Going by his question later, he went blind with rage, all faculties except those related to his combat prowess burned away. Anything he shouted between then and his rebirth as Vader was the rantings of a man over the edge. It was probably only the searing agony and resigned depression that calmed him back down to a sullen simmer afterwards.

I apologise for the insinuation however, it was a touch of exasperation on my part.

>m8

Talking of which, no, it's been around as long as "U wot m8," as far as I can tell.