No.21667 [Last50 Posts]
The 'anything goes' politics general for discussing and bitching about real world politics and their influences on Star Wars.
Mostly for off-topic banter to avoid derailing threads if need be.
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No.21668
Sounds like a shitty self-insert tbh. Killing jedi with a sword?
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No.21674
>>21668
The ancient sith used alchemical swords when they first fought the Jedi.
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No.21675
>>21667
>posting your email
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No.21682
>>21675
Should the thread continue in that guy's email folder?
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No.21688
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No.21690
>>21674
Is he an ancient sith?
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No.21691
>>21690
Nope. As usual, OP is a faggot.
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No.21741
>>21667
>>fighting for a majority alien coalition
>>that doesn't believe in borders
If the Separtists won your sons would be going to majority alien schools and your daughters would be sleeping with aliens. Decadent Libertarianism is the only thing the CIS stood for.
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No.21744
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No.21747
>>21741
>die cis scum
Shut up tumblr.
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No.21787
>>21690
Obviously not but I was pointing out that it was a valid concept. It's not so improbable that someone found a way to make swords withstand a light saber. In KOTOR vibroblades go toe to toe with light sabers as well
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No.21789
>>21741
>Decadent Libertarianism
Contrary to normie belief these things don't go together.
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No.21791
>>21787
You're missing the point. Some faggot killing Jedi with a sword who has no force training is a wanked self-insert.
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No.21792
>>21789
Libertarians ruined everything, and what you don't seem to realize is many of us were libertarians.
There are bigger fucking problems than the fucking state or lacking a two-thirds legislature to override a veto.
THE SIZE OF FUCKING GOVERNMENT IS IRRELEVANT YOU GODDAMN IDIOTS.
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No.21793
>>21789
Libertarianism means defending to the death the right of people to say they'll kill you. That's why the root of libertarianism is cuckoldry. It is suppression of self-interest in favor of guaranteeing the freedoms of others.
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No.21797
>>21688
Fuck it, I'm lazy.
>>21789
Libertarians defend lootboxes and microtransactions despite all evidence that the free market is a complete failure in that industry; they can put a brick up their butts. Also, workfare programs are awesome.
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No.21800
>>21792
>There are bigger fucking problems than the fucking state
You say that like we're only allowed to acknowledge one problem at a time. The impending brown wave is a far bigger existential threat than the feds, and to that end I'm all for the state shutting down the flood of socialist immigrants flooding in. However, just because I find an authoritarian state more useful than not at this particular moment does not mean I'm going to worship it forever.
>THE SIZE OF FUCKING GOVERNMENT IS IRRELEVANT YOU GODDAMN IDIOTS.
Economics shows you're objectively wrong about that. Larger government and more social programs always run an economy into the ground, it's just a question of how fast. At the moment, hordes of shitskins are tearing the country apart far faster than the government so it pays to focus on that problem rather than government. But again, that's not the same thing as the problem of government not being present at all.
>>21793
>Libertarianism means defending to the death the right of people to say they'll kill you.
Bullshit. Free speech isn't a libertarian ideal and even if it was, another, higher libertarian ideal is that you lose the right to protection of some convention (e.g. free speech) the moment you yourself violate it. I'm all for using the state to silence leftist scum because I know that they'd do the same for me. So no, rather than "doing nothing" as you imagine it I'm more than happy to attempt to influence the state for use in self-defence. The rest of your post is based on this false assumption being true so I won't address it.
>>21797
>free market is a complete failure in that industry
Explain to me what you mean by "failure", as that's a pretty vague term. The way I see it, idiots are looking for new and creative ways to throw away their money, and games companies are only too happy to oblige them. Fools and their money are soon parted, and I don't make it my business to play helicopter parent to a load of fools.
>workfare
Welfare in any and all of its forms is destructive to an economy. Keynesian makework programs aren't quite as bad as full socialism but they're still inferior in every aspect to private
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No.21801
>>21800
>Keynesian makework programs aren't quite as bad as full socialism but they're still inferior in every aspect to private
Workfare needn't be Keynesian. Infrastructure or general assistance programs are pragmatic applications for workfare that can actually reduce the costs of government or increase quality of life within the nation, as opposed to a non-safety net nation, which gets no benefits, and all the horrors of the hopelessly destitute.
> Larger government and more social programs always run an economy into the ground
Hitler would like to have a talk with you, anon.
>I'm all for using the state to silence leftist scum because I know that they'd do the same for me.
It sounds like you're just taking NatSoc and putting a "libertarian, totally not nazis" sticker on it. Libertarianism is about using as small a government as can funtion, within reason, while NatSoc is the one about pragmatism and general health of the nation; there's a large overlap, but the core foundation is distinctly different. The whole point of your infograhic >>21789 here seems to be "see lolbergs are ok because they agree with NatSoc," so just accept that it's NatSoc you're promoting, not lolbergism. Another way to put it is that libertarianism is for those who see people purely as individuals, while it is NatSoc that sees people as both individuals AND part of a larger group. What you are espousing seems to acknowledge this larger group, making it distincly not libertarian in nature.
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No.21802
>>21800
>Free speech isn't a libertarian ideal
You're approaching 'it's never been tried' anon.
You are just operating in your own headcannon of libertarianism at this point. This is like saying Jews believe Jesus is God's son. Remember: none of us started out as NatSoc. We were all Libertarians once. We know the theory and the principles and practices. We rejected them. We aren't going back.
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No.21804
>>21802
>We rejected them.
I wouldn't say we "rejected" them, just ripped out the 50% of it that was wrong (due to a lack of certain knowledge at the time) and fixed it.
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No.21806
>>21801
You can't have government makework that isn't be Keynesian. The whole "it creates jobs" mantra ignores the fact that every worker employed by the government reduces the supply of available workforce to the private sector. And the private sector will always be better at supplying the infrastructure and whatever other services these workfare programs are supplying, because governments cannot solve the calculation problem. If you don't want people to be "hopelessly destitute," more welfare isn't the answer, because you're removing the incentive for people to better their situation, and instead they just get stuck in the welfare system, whether it's workfare or food stamps, indefinitely. Deregulating the labor market has always been the best way to increase quality of life.
>muh Hitler's magic economy
First off, Hitler took over the goddamn Weimar Republic. Any improvement to the inflationary degenerate shithole that was Weimar would look miraculous by comparison. Second, a short-term boost in GNP doesn't at all represent a stable, sustainable economy. The Reich was undergoing a Keynesian boom, and would have come crashing down with the bust before too long if the Allied bombs hadn't come crashing down first; we can already see this in the high rates of inflation that the Reich was seeing in the final years of the war. Speaking of inflation, looking at the graph you posted I can see it's only denominated in nominal Reichsmarks, and as such is measuring nominal GNP and not real GNP. If you adjusted for inflation (on account of Hitler printing money like crazy) that rise would look far less dramatic.
>The whole point of your infograhic see lolbergs here seems to be "see lolbergs are ok because they agree with NatSoc"
Only if you define "NatSoc" so broadly as "anyone who doesn't love open borders and poopdick is a NatSoc" ironically, that's how the left seems to be defining Nazi these days. I'm not in favor of tariffs, NatSocs are. I don't go into a spastic fit about usury whenever interest rates are mentioned, NatSocs do. I don't think there's any difference between a "labor-backed currency" and conventional fiat money, NatSocs do…I could go on. The point of that infographic isn't "lolbergs are NatSoc," it's that NatSoc aren't the only group on the planet that figured out in-group preference exists.
>What you are espousing seems to acknowledge this larger group, making it distincly not libertarian in nature.
Would this meme just fucking die already? NEETSocs aren't the only ones who figured out how demographics work, you're not such special snowflakes. Libertarians aren't hyper-individualists; Rothbard, Mises, Hope, Rockwell, and nearly all the foundational members of the ideology had a great respect for traditional values. This hyper-individualist meme only came around in the last few years with the rise of Sarcuck and similar "classical liberals" who don't know what that term means, which is funny because those people don't even identify as libertarian.
And finally, you seem to have missed the driving point of everything I said–I support most of these things that you call "NatSoc," not because they're the best way of doing things, but because they're leagues better than what we have now, and would bring us far closer to a libertarian order than we are now. These are for me only transitional goals, not final ones.
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No.21807
>>21802
>You're approaching 'it's never been tried' anon.
Hardly, it can be explained with little ambiguity and no room for dispute. Libertarians value private property. If someone says shit I don't like on my property I'm entitled to physically remove him.
>We know the theory and the principles and practices.
The fact that you're only just now hearing that free speech isn't a high ideal of liberty makes me doubt that. Here's a quote from Hoppe's Democracy, a rather well known one at that. If you had any knowledge of him besides "le physical removal meme man" this wouldn't have come as a surprise to you:
>“In a covenant…among proprietor and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, no such thing as a right to free (unlimited) speech exists, not even to unlimited speech on one’s own tenant-property. One may say innumerable things and promote almost any idea under the sun, but naturally no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very covenant of preserving and protecting private property, such as democracy and communism. There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and removed from society.”
If I had to guess I'd say you called yourself libertarian because you followed the Ron Paul campaign for a little while and didn't like the Fed. Ron Paul's not a bad guy, but you can't use that to say you had a foundational knowledge of the principles and practices. At best you were a casual hanger-on.
>We rejected them. We aren't going back.
What makes you think I give two shits whether you come back or not? NatSoc and its various sister movements in the alt-right serve my purposes more than they work against them at this point in time, so I've no quarrel with you. I would prefer it if you were a little more knowledgeable on the lolbergs, however–it's in your best interest, too, as paleolibertarians are the closest thing to a real ally you have at the moment.
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No.21808
>>21807
da fuq happened to my flag
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No.21811
>>21806
>You can't have government makework that isn't be Keynesian.
Bullcrap assertion because it needn't be "makework."
>The whole "it creates jobs" mantra ignores the fact that every worker employed by the government reduces the supply of available workforce to the private sector.
<What is unemployment?
You're smarter than this; you should understand there is more labor supply than there is demand, and automation/industrialization has only exacerbated the issue in recent decades.
>because you're removing the incentive for people to better their situation,
Huh? I've been discussing WORKfare. The incentive is that you can do the same level of work for more pay in the private sector, but the safety net is there if such jobs are unavailable. Additionally, it removes the need for minimum wage laws.
>Deregulating the labor market has always been the best way to increase quality of life.
Hong Kong proves otherwise. Do you have any data to back up this claim, or are you just doing that lazy "communism is the measure of all government" thing.
>The Reich was undergoing a Keynesian boom
Utterly wrong. The deficit was increased for a while because government efforts were applied to infrastructure and industrial growth, which later led to greater private sector growth, and a drastic reduction in government size. There were so many jobs available that swarms of temp workers from neighboring European countries were being hired, so, as mentioned above, the number of people on the safety net shrank to almost nothing because they got better offers from the private sector.
>I'm not in favor of tariffs
Outsourcing says "hi."
>most of these things that you call "NatSoc," not because they're the best way of doing things, but because they're leagues better than what we have now, and would bring us far closer to a libertarian order than we are now.
In a way you're right, in the sense that NatSoc fulfills many of the goals of libertarians far better than libertarian philosophy does. Again, I think you're really just running mental gymnastics at this point to sperg about "well TECHNICALLY, I can justify x, y, and z authoritarian policies by writing paragraphs of spew about freedoms and private rights."
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No.21812
>>21811
>there is more labor supply than there is demand
I should also add that the people on welfare right now, who may not be considered in unemployment stats, would also be part of this labor demand in a workfare-enabled state.
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No.21817
>>21811
>Bullcrap assertion
You still haven't acknowledged the calculation problem, the government's inability to solve it, or a refutation of either factor; as such you have failed to show how government projects aren't "makework" or more efficient than the private sector
>You're smarter than this
…Which is why I understand that there are so many price floors, barriers to entry, over-regulation, and similar factors preventing the employment market from reaching equilibrium that making any kind of claim such as this is absurd. But let's set that aside, let us pretend minimum wage laws, overprivileged labor unions, and all that other good stuff doesn't exist and we have a relatively free labor market, and there was still "more supply than demand." Your workfare program would only make the problem worse. For starters, even without a minimum wage in place this program will act as a de factominimum wage, destroying any job that pays below the government wage. Now that those people are out of work you've increased unemployment a few points. Further, if there truly is "far more supply than demand" for labor you're just going to make that gap bigger, because the taxes you place on productive capital to pay for your workfare program will mean people will have even less disposable income available than they had before, which means there's less demand for production in the economy, which means firms won't hire as many people. This causes more "unemployed" to apply for your workfare program, and now you have to increase taxes further to finance it all, which decreases disposable income even more, which causes more unemployment…and so that downward spiral continues until you've destroyed any kind of productivity in the economy. This effect happens twofold, becasue in addition to firms producing less, higher tax rate means there's less incentive for people to work (they're getting a lower effective income for the same effort due to the taxes), which means you'll start to see people that are employed drop out as well. This is the same downward spiral that happens with any kind of welfare, or social safety net, or whatever you wish to call it; it's just a question of how fast it happens.
>automation/industrialization has only exacerbated the issue in recent decades.
False, objectively and demonstrably so. The decrease in costs, increase in market size, and corresponding increase in income will always cause a net increase in employment. This point has been done to death and I can't be arsed to rehash the argument so just read this:
https://mises.org/library/let’s-hope-machines-take-our-jobs-we-want-wealth-not-jobs
https://mises.org/wire/will-automation-make-us-poor
>Do you have any data to back up this claim
Only all of human history since the Industrial Revolution. Funny you should bring up Hong Kong because it's an excellent case study in how successful deregulation can be at increasing wealth. And before you sperg out on me about child labor and threshing machines:
https://mises.org/library/popular-interpretation-industrial-revolution
I know NatSocs get pissed of when you get called socialists, but it's really hard to resist when so many of your talking points can be pulled verbatim from Dr. Glassbergstein's sociology 101.
>Utterly wrong.
You…you haven't actually addressed anything I said, just gave a bunch of red herrings about deficits. Rapid growth of the private sector doesn't mean a Keynesian boom isn't happening, in fact that's one of the defining characteristics of such a boom–I have to wonder if you even know what it is I mean by "Keynesian boom" to miss the definition by so far. You also haven't addressed Hitler's severe inflationary policy, or the fact that all your data is quoted only in nominal reichsmark values as opposed to real ones.
>Outsourcing says "hi."
Comparative advantage says "hi." Provide an epistemologically sound refutation of the same or git out.
>In a way you're right, in the sense that NatSoc fulfills many of the goals of libertarians far better than libertarian philosophy does.
That's not what I said, don't fucking put words in my mouth. I said NatSoc was better than what we have now, which isn't to say that your particular flavor of economic illiteracy is so great, but more to say that what we have now is so utterly shite. I explicitly called it a transitional stopgap and not a permanent solution.
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No.21818
>>21817
>Again, I think you're really just running mental gymnastics at this point to sperg about "well TECHNICALLY, I can justify x, y, and z authoritarian policies by writing paragraphs of spew about freedoms and private rights."
But here's the thing: you haven't actually addressed any of those "paragraphs of spew." I haven't done any mental gymnastics, I've made some rather straightforward explanations of libertarian property theory and the implications of such, and I can point to a number of prolific libertarian scholars and economists that agree with my interpretation. You haven't proven this interpretation incorrect, provided any counterexamples, or indeed shown that you've understood the interpretation, just dismissed it all as "mental gymnastics" with no elaboration.
I think what's happening here is this: you have this image in your head of libertarians just being a bunch of hippies that really like gold. You're ignoring any evidence or reasoning that shows this interpretation to be incorrect, because it's easier for you to smugly dismiss lolberg thought when you pull up this caricature and pretend that's what you're arguing against. Although I must say, I have to admire your cognitive dissonance–despite you and I disagreeing on quite a few points regarding economics, and despite these being NatSoc points, you can simultaneously maintain I'm just a NatSoc in denial.
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No.21819
>>21817
>>21818
Oh yeah, and I forgot to add: all your harping on about "supply for labor being greater than demand" shows you don't actually understand the law of supply or the law of demand–in a free market, any such "oversupply" would just cause people to take jobs at a lower wage. And as long as the newspaper is full of help wanted ads, it's just a little disingenuous to say that demand for labor has already been fulfilled.
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No.21834
>>21819
>any such "oversupply" would just cause people to take jobs at a lower wage.
Oh, how wonderful! People can be even poorer in your nation. How is this supposed to be better, again? See the chart; a continuation of this chart is what your policies will cause, utter stagnation for the typical household.
>>21818
Let me cut to the core of your property rights ethos. You are a propertarian, not a libertarian; you value property rights more than liberty as far as I can see. The difference between us is that I'm prioritizing the health and general well-being of the nation, because taking a 25% tax (and even that is a very high estimate) to live in a much nicer place is well worth it.
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No.21835
>>21818
>>21819
While we're both being snippy (it's 8chan, what else would we be), I just want to clarify there's no hard feelings on my end. Ultimately we're in agreement on about 90% of things, and just quibbling over the differences at the end and some methods to get there as far as I can tell.
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No.21837
>>21834
>People can be even poorer in your nation
I think you missed my point–the wage decrease only happens if there truly is an "oversupply" of labor. And it's disingenuous to talk about wage rates in a vacuum; wages decreased during the Industrial Revolution in England, for instance, but cost of living also went down by a lot more than wages went down. The only point I was trying to make there is that an "oversupply" of labor is characterized by a decrease in wages, not an increase in unemployment.
>slow growth of wages
That's a real problem and I'm not suggesting the near non-existent growth in salaries over the last few years is a good thing. I wouldn't say that's a product of the free market, however. I think you and I would agree that leftism has been steadily growing more and more influential over the past century, yes? Well, that doesn't just apply to legal weed and rights for trannies; we've been getting steadily more leftist and regulatory on the economics side as well, and I would argue that these policies are what has kept wages from growing. For instance, because employers are required to provide their employees with healthcare, there's a much higher "switching cost" to getting a new job, because it means you lose your healthcare. Because of that artificially high switching cost, you have less ability to "shop" for a higher salary, and are encouraged to stick with the employer you have now, even if you want a higher wage. This means that your bargaining power as an employee is reduced, and you're more likely to settle for lowered wages. Second, your graph is comparing total GDP and its growth, but you have to remember that not all slices of GDP are created equal–a large portion of that GDP growth is spent on nonproductive activities stimulated by the Federal Reserve's credit expansion and artificially low interest rates. Also on the subject of inflation, the Cantillon Effect plays a part in this. I'm sure you understand that inflating the money supply equals higher prices, right? The thing is, those prices don't rise evenly, because new money doesn't enter the system evenly. When the Fed buys back T-bonds and generates new money, that money enters the economy through the banks and the real estate sector–that means the banks and real estate moguls enjoy the benefits of having more money without the drawback of the higher prices. The people they buy from will experience slightly higher prices, the people who buy from them slightly higher, and so on until the price level all across the board has stabilized. Because of the Cantillon Effect big banks and real estate moguls see large increases in their wealth with an increase in money supply while the average consumer sees almost none.
>you value property rights more than liberty as far as I can see.
Property rights are liberty. Anyone trying to tell you that property is theft or anti-liberty is a filthy commie and should be ignored. I'm guessing this is why so many people think libertarianism promotes degeneracy, it's because they've been listening to libertines who think freedom means freedom from consequence. If I were to go over to /liberty/ right now and asked the difference between a propertarian and a libertarian, most of the responses I would get would be "what's the difference?"
>>21835
I wouldn't say there's any hard feelings on my side either, like you say our goals are similar. Where I do get hard feelings with is these NatSocs that think their IQ is oh-so-high just because they've looked at a few statistics, and recognized a correlation that was common knowledge just a few decades ago. The fact is, your average NatSoc is only redpilled on race, sex, and maybe democracy but bluepilled on near everything else, and their opinions on most other things are normie-tier. Like the slow increase of real wage, that's a pretty common talking point with Joe Six-Pack in both the Democrat and the Republican camps.
A quote I really like from Rothbard is this: “It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a ‘dismal science.’ it really is, I'm the kind of freak that reads textbooks on this stuff in his spare time and even I acknowledge it can be dry as shit But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.”
A lot of NatSocs act similarly to this, and when they do it pisses me off. They think they know everything there is to know about economics because they watched one or two documentaries on the Fed; some of them go so far as to dismiss all economics ever as "voodoo kike science" as a justification for their ignorance. It doesn't seem like you're doing that, but it's because of that sentiment that a lot of NatSocs have come to annoy me.
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No.21840
>>21837
>>21835
What I really want to know is how a thread about alto Stratus and his jabiim nationalist army turned into a debate between national socialism and libertarianism. Not that it wasn't informative to watch
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No.21853
>>21840
Because 8chan, my nigger.
>>21837
I decided to sleep on my response.
Ultimately, I'm not qualified enough to discuss economics at your level, nor have I read Rothbard or Hoppe, so I can't really rebut anything you've just said.
On the flip side, you lack the knowledge of Nazi Germany and its history to properly rebut it either.
So instead of pursuing this dead end, I'd like to offer one parting question:
Which country in human history best exemplifies your ideals and why do you want to live there?
For me, obviously, it's Nazi Germany, because everyone there had a strong, unified vision of the future where we inherit the stars, and I could live every day proud of the knowledge that we were on track to get there. The traditional families and clean streets are also nice, as is the preservation of various distinct local cultures and businesses to enjoy.
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No.21856
>>21853
>On the flip side, you lack the knowledge of Nazi Germany and its history to properly rebut it either.
Well, that depends on what aspect of it we're talking about. I'm certainly not well-versed on every major event from '33 to '45, but I don't think I'm wrong on their monetary policy; the money is supply was steadily expanding to be fair to the Germans every wartime economy did this, but both Hitler and FDR started their credit expansion well before the war, and price inflation had started to become a problem by the 40s. And I don't think it can be disputed that, while private enterprises weren't state-controlled, businesses were subject to a large number of price controls and licensure requirements. Whether these were good or bad can be argued, but they did happen.
>Which country in human history best exemplifies your ideals and why do you want to live there?
I'd say either the United States pre-1787, or Switzerland until the mid 20th century. Both had a strong sense of identity, both racial and cultural, placed a strong emphasis on self-determination, including a decentralized state and defense through a citizen's militia. They might both have been democracies, but the requirements for becoming part of the electorate were restrictive enough that they were de facto aristocracies. Also, note that while I believe both of these nations started to descend from their peaks at those dates I mentioned, both were very nice for quite a while afterwards—the US was still quite good until 1861 and Switzerland is still pretty good now, all things considered. My ideal nation likely would have been the US, if at the end of the Revolutionary War Thomas Jefferson became the first monarch of the United States.
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No.21859
>>21667
Why does he have cum on his coat?
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No.21860
>>21859
I would say it was mud, but it's clearly a different color than the mud around him.
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No.21865
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No.21877
>>21801
>the economy was already rising before hitler palpatine even came into power much less the nazis empire
OH NO NO NO NO
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No.21893
>>21859
Soldirers! Unleash TacJizz!
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No.21907
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No.21942
>>21667
>faggot OP posts le ebin memes
>is a fag
lol, I bet you don't even know why or how "cuck" and (((echoes))) became popular, you fucking newfag
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No.21943
>>21800
/pol/ is fucking cancer but so is /liberty/
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No.21945
fuck i'm too tired for this shit
>>21792
>many of """us"""
Sure you were, reddit.
>>21789
No, Ron Paul should have been president, but
>as of the alt-kike going mainstream, Libertarian Party is now full of decadence (unless you'd like to prove otherwise)
and
>equity puts the corrupt and the righteous on equal footing; as per usual, because the corrupt do not play fairly, they win, and the corrupt gain control, which has many different meanings, everything from homos wanting to poison the youth through media, or rich Jews wanting to help Israel through foreign intervention
Dr. Paul lost because the system was against him. The system is not working as it should and it got this way as a result of the way the uncorrupted system worked. Now, National Socialism isn't the end all be all as /pol/ will tell you (and nu/pol/'s "neo-nazi" anyway, being full of base idiots who literally worship Hitler and proclaim to believe what he believed unquestioningly (including but not limited to ZOG influence :^) ), which is fucking retarded, because Hitler isn't the end all be all), but neither are weak liberal ideologies.
A so-called tyrant will rise to put an end to this corruption, having the support of the people. He'll break the rules, instead of working around them, which makes him a tyrant. Tyranny is generally wrong because it delegitimizes law, but it's sometimes necessary. Besides, when he does come, the people won't see the law as some high ideal anyway.
You're left-wing because you're a libertarian. Fascism is often called third-position because it has strong elements of new (for the time) ideologies (nationalism, working for "the people", etc.), as well as old ideals, namely strict authoritarianism.
>>21744
Ironic cancer is still cancer, faggot. Waste of dubs.
>ITT: faggot OP shoots himself in the foot and indirectly causes troglodytes to duke it out
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No.21947
>>21943
See picrelated. Also, since I'm assuming you agree with the pic you posted one thing to note is that libertarianism is not just compatible with traditionalism but the only way to maintain its ideals in the long run. Also, the monarchies and aristocratic republics for which the traditionalist in your pic advocates are explicitly named by Hans-Hermann Hoppe as the best forms of governing a society, second only to the natural order of private property. You seem to have ignored most of the content I posted which shows this synergy.
>>21945
>No, Ron Paul should have been president
>Dr. Paul lost because the system was against him. The system is not working as it should and it got this way as a result of the way the uncorrupted system worked.
You'll get no disagreement from me there. However I'd say Paul's run was in a lot of ways still successful, because despite the loss it was a very potent outreach program. I'm still meeting people today who said they were inspired by Ron Paul and his bid for the office.
>A so-called tyrant will rise to put an end to this corruption, having the support of the people.
Wouldn't really disagree, with the caveat that fascism is strictly a transitional system, and while it's far better than the current trashheap it's far from perfect and not really sustainable in the long run.
>You're left-wing because you're a libertarian.
That's a pretty bold assertion to make without backing it up. Libertarian is fundamentally a right-wing ideology, through its explicit support of a limited government and its implicit support of traditionalism. Tell me, if libertarianism is "left", and fascism is a third way that's superior to both left and right, what exactly is right-wing?
> Fascism is often called third-position
Fascism is called the Third Way because it borrows elements from both left and right-wing thought. This is not to say that fascists are centrists, however: A centrist has noncommittal opinions that don't coherently support one way or the other but thanks to O'Sullivans law they're effectively leftists. A fascist is strongly left-wing on issues X and Y but strongly right-wing on W and Z. Usually, the left issues are social welfare, tariffs and possibly monetary policy, and the right issues are immigration and in-group preference.
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No.21949
>>21943
>forms of gubmint that give absolute power
>better than free market
haha no fuck off with that shit
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No.21953
>>21947
>libertarianism maintains traditionalism
What a crock of shit. Libertarianism actively permits nontraditionalists and degenerates. Go let your gays grow pot and own guns, faggot.
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No.21956
>>21953
>and own guns
>implying anyone on the modern left has the balls to even touch a real gun
I'm not trying to argue against any of you. I'm just saying the majority are too pussy-ish to own one.
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No.21958
>>21956
>the majority are too pussy-ish to own one.
True. Just look at them.
And the ones that do own guns can't aim worth a damn either.
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No.21959
>>21958
These… These people can't be real…
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No.21960
>>21953
Libertarianism actively permits nothing of the sort. It doesn't actively do anything, that's the point you stupid slave.
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No.21961
>>21953
Wrong, and shows you didn't read any of the previous posts. Freedom to do whatever you want without aggression does not imply you're incentivized to do so, in fact most free market incentives act against libertine behavior. Let's take fags, for instance; the reason poopdick is so prominent in contemporary society because the state not only allows their degeneracy, it actively subsidizes and encourages it. They don't face extremely high insurance rates due to their high-risk behavior because of nondiscrimination laws. When they do inevitably contract AIDS they can get tested free at the free clinic, get drugs from medicare, and don't stop giving others AIDS because CA and other states pass laws decriminalizing bug-chasing. They don't face social repercussions for their degenerate behavior because the state comes in and says "bake the cake, bigot." They aren't prosecuted for their pedophilia because LOL hatespeech. In a free market, without nondiscrimination laws, no one would be obligated to rent to fags, sell to fags, or put up with fags' intrusively degenerate behavior. It's the same deal with pot. You want to be a hemp-smoking degenerate? Good luck finding and keeping a job, good luck feeding yourself without a job as there's no welfare to leech off of, good luck keeping health insurance with your outrageously high rates, good luck finding a place to live where the landlord doesn't care about you stinking up the place. As Hans-Hermann Hoppe shows in his books and various essays, a natural order society would not have any kind of "free movement" because of borders, the crime of trespassing, and freedom of dissociation. In fact, it would exist as a series of homogeneous, highly selective gated communities.
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No.21962
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No.21965
>>21956
>implying anyone on the modern left has the balls to even touch a real gun
>I'm not trying to argue against any of you. I'm just saying the majority are too pussy-ish to own one.
you'd be surprised by the working class dems. it's all the fringe groups and uppers that ree at the thought of guns.
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No.21966
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>21965
True, but most of those types aren't really enthusiastic for gun control, and are starting to lean right as the dems abandon them in favor of the diversity alliance.
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No.21968
>>21966
fine by me, both parties suck but at least the gop is open about how shitty they are, i'd rather have them not hide behind a facade like the dems do.
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No.21972
>>21968
True. But I personally prefer third parties. Not Libertarians though. Fuck that. I'm more of an American Independence Party kind of guy
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No.21978
>>21972
Technically Patrick Little runs as Republican. Don't think that means I "support the GOP," though
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No.21979
>>21960
Faggots actively want to corrupt and destroy you, you passive fucking moron. They must be actively prosecuted.
>>21961
>Wrong, and shows you didn't read any of the previous posts.
Because it's all just your statements which are divorced from anything. It's your head canon of libertarianism which hasn't been tried yet. You basically believe "the Market" is an anthropomorphized being that agrees with you and will punish homosexuals for you.
History shows that libertarian faggots like you two supported sodomistes and now we live in a putrid fuckhole. Get fucked you miserable inactive pricks.
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No.21980
>>21979
>Because it's all just your statements which are divorced from anything
Which you have failed to refute or even address.
>It's your head canon of libertarianism which hasn't been tried yet.
Not an argument and no support provided.
>You basically believe "the Market" is an anthropomorphized being that agrees with you and will punish homosexuals for you.
Nice projection, the only people who anthropomorphize the market are socialists who fail to understand how it works, and assume anytime the market doesn't act the way they want they assume they are being "kiked" or "exploited" and blame their situation on an external force. The market doesn't "punish" anyone, there are strategies that work and strategies that do not. Degeneracy is not a strategy that works, as I've shown multiple times. If you think you can prove that the incentives do not exist as I have presented them, I invite you to try and do so rather than make baseless assertions.
>History shows that libertarian faggots like you supported sodomistes [sic]
Like who? Name names or git out. Bastiat didn't. Menger didn't. Mises didn't. Rothbard didn't. Hoppe didn't. And I sure as hell don't, so even if you did have ground to stand on here I don't see how bringing in outside people furthers your point.
>passive fucking moron
>Get fucked you miserable inactive pricks.
Please read the following passages and tell me which parts are "passive":
>Democracy Hoppe describes a fully libertarian society[non-primary source needed] of "covenant communities" made up of residents who have signed an agreement defining the nature of that community. Hoppe writes "There would be little or no ‘tolerance’ and ‘openmindedness’ so dear to left-libertarians. Instead, one would be on the right path toward restoring the freedom of association and exclusion implied in the institution of private property". Hoppe writes that towns and villages could have warning signs saying "no beggars, bums, or homeless, but also no homosexuals, drug users, Jews, Moslems, Germans, or Zulus".
>In a covenant concluded among proprietor and community tenants for the purpose of protecting their private property, no such thing as a right to free (unlimited) speech exists, not even to unlimited speech on one's own tenant-property. One may say innumerable things and promote almost any idea under the sun, but naturally no one is permitted to advocate ideas contrary to the very purpose of the covenant of preserving and protecting private property, such as democracy and communism. There can be no tolerance toward democrats and communists in a libertarian social order. They will have to be physically separated and expelled from society. Likewise, in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. They – the advocates of alternative, non-family and kin-centered lifestyles such as, for instance, individual hedonism, parasitism, nature-environment worship, homosexuality, or communism – will have to be physically removed from society, too, if one is to maintain a libertarian order.
These are quotes from Hans-Hermann Hoppe, the most prolific and influential libertarian scholar alive today.
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No.21982
Well I hope you're all having fun. This might make a nice politics general if you all want that.
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No.21986
>>21956
>Jewish voice
Those were Swedish "aryans", and not just aryans, but natural aristocrats :^)
When I first saw it, I thought they were mentally retarded. Turns out they were just mentally ill :^)
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No.21987
>>21982
>fun
I haven't had "fun" on this shithole website in years.
Better than having politics spewed all over the fucking board, so yes please, unless the politics are relevant to the thread (i.e. in-universe politics and e/lit/ist discussion in regards to whatever the discussion might be).
IRL political shitflinging should go here. Just find what works and doesn't work on other boards and base your decisions off of that. Careful not to turn the board into general central.
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No.21988
>>21949
BRILLIANT ARGUMENTEWF90U8FE[JGMVMVOREGV
>>21947
BRILLIANT ARGUMENTEWF90U8FE[JGMVMVOREGV
GUHW93UHR;FJIWPRJQ3-QJG[BENRIGNV
STRAWMAN AHAHAHHAHAHA AFIUWEFBUBUGA[JGNVEMRE[M
3GV
I'VE HAD MORE FULFILLING DISCUSSIONS ON FUCKING 4CHAN THAN THIS SHITHOLE, HAVING GONE BACK TO SEE IF IT WAS ANY BETTER
IT WASN'T BUT CERTAIN BOARDS WERE BETTER THAN ANY HERE
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN
HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN
HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN
HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN
HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN
HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN
HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN
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No.21989
>>21982
>>21987
You should also keep it mostly unregulated, so idiots can vent their political frustrations instead of elsewhere on the board.
:^)
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No.21990
>>21947
When did I say fascism was centrist, you mong?
Do you even know where the left-right dichotomy came from, you fucking subhuman?
>image
And nice strawman. Next time, swallow and ice cube before posting, you fucking hot head. Not even going to bother with the rest of your bullshit.
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No.21991
>>21947
Hey, aren't you the Tarkin guy?
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No.21992
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No.21993
>>21990
>When did I say fascism was centrist, you mong?
I didn't claim you said that, learn2readingcomprehension.
>>21991
Yes. Not really sure what to do with it now as I can't write action scenes for shit, and the writeup ends as a battle over Mustafar begins.
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No.21996
>>21993
No, you're right. But then why did you repeat what I said in regard to fascism?
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No.21997
>>21996
I wasn't trying to repeat anything, but take an alternate perspective. You spoke about fash being a mix of new and old ideologies, but I don't think that's quite accurate–even if it's true, the goal wasn't to take the "best" parts of new and old, but to take the "best" parts of left and right. I also don't think it's really correct to say that nationalism was a part of a "new" ideology for the 20th century–in-group preference has been around as long as biology has been around, after all. The 'new' part of nationalism is the fact that for the first time a group had to explicitly say they favored their own people first, whereas before that was just assumed to be true and didn't have to be affirmed.
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No.22029
Daily reminder the Empire was flawed but the overall good for the galaxy and the Rebellion was a bunch of ass-licking mongoloids and cowards.
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No.22047
>>21792
How could libertarians ruin everything when they've never had any real political power? You saw what the establishment did to Ron Paul, and he's largely a fairly mild libertarian compared to some, albeit devoted to what he believes.
>>21961
The sentiment expressed by Hans Hermann-Hoppe in this set of quotations is something I should have realized much sooner. Americans are taught to believe that democracy and freedom are inseparable, but in reality they have nothing to do with each other. People can democratically vote to revoke any and all freedoms. If you support a certain thing being allowed but the majority doesn't, you're shit out of luck in a democratic system. And given how retarded most of the population is anyway, why should anyone ever trust democracy to do the right thing? The people are very often not merely wrong and retarded, but actively refuse to see the truth, listen to it or even allow it to be spoken because they've worked themselves up into a frenzy of hysteria. Why should that sort of person have any influence in politics?
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No.22049
>>22047
>Why should that sort of person have any influence in politics?
The answer of course is that sort of panicky, hysterical person will gladly vote to give more power to the (((group))) which granted them the franchise.
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No.22107
>>21993
tell me about this tarkin project you have going on.
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No.22108
>>22107
Not really a "project," just a shitty fanfic I wrote awhile back about what would happen if Anakin chose to kill Sheev in his watershed moment instead of Windu.
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No.22119
>>22108
okay, i've barely made it through the first paragraph and the errors alone have given me ptsd.
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No.22120
>>22119
Stopped for a reason fam, I'm no writer. You want to turn that shit into something actionable be my guest.
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No.22170
>>22108
>while back
How long ago, what thread?
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No.22175
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No.22331
Hot take: I think the Empire was bad. BUT, BUT, here me out here.
It shouldn't have been. As I've grown older I resent more and more that the group that has every right to be and for all intents and purposes IS the good side, was made bad to serve as a shitty generic lazy antagonist. And I fucking hate the soyboys on force.net and halfchan who act like faggots any time you talk good about the Empire.
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No.22332
>>22331
>And I fucking hate the soyboys on force.net and halfchan who act like faggots any time you talk good about the Empire.
Its weird. 7 years ago you could've made all sorts of pro-Empire comments or even RP as a stormtrooper without anyone batting an eye, yet now you'll be scorned and called a bigot for liking the empire. Only place on halfchan that isn't completely fucked with this kind of thinking is /toy/. Even 4/tg/ is just a mess of faggots now who see love for the Empire as "evil backwards fascism" yet have no problem with lovers of 40k's Imperium (most of the time anyway).
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No.22333
>>22332
>40k's Imperium
sadly it's gotten to the point where newfags insist the Imperium is evil and the worst faction and the enjoyment of it is only ironic. spot on though, the Empire was definitely the first to fall. ever since the buyout half/sw/ has gotten more and more of the soyposter types. heaven help you if you dare badmouth their precious webuls.
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No.22334
>>22331
broke: Empire was ebil space fascists
woke: Empire did nothing wrong
bespoke: Empire had problems under Sheev but the Remnant/Fel Dynasty did nothing wrong.
>>22332
Even the Imperium isn't completely safe, tumblr-type spergs once tried to fill 1d4chan with shit like this: https://1d4chan.org/index.php?title=How_Imperial_Life_Is_Worse_Than_You_Can_Imagine&redirect=no
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No.22349
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No.22350
>>22333
Source please.
>>22331
>>>/reddit/
>>22334
>broke: Empire was ebil space fascists
>woke: Empire did nothing wrong
>bespoke: Empire had problems under Sheev but the Remnant/Fel Dynasty did nothing wrong.
We have something called "imageboard culture", which is different from your normalfag """culture""". Also, don't talk like a nigger.
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No.22352
>>22350
weeaboos have no culture
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No.22353
>>22350
i don't see what you meant by this post
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No.22360
>>22334
>Even the Imperium isn't completely safe, tumblr-type spergs once tried to fill 1d4chan with shit like this
And people allow that shit on the article?
>>22350
What point are you even trying to make?
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No.22369
I think Republic and Empire are two different societies and ways of life, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.
the Republic offers checks & balances of power and political representation for all factions in society (which is particularly good for non-human sentients). However, it suffers from corruption, gridlock, and bureaucracy.
the Empire is efficient and effective at marshaling resources, projecting military force, and maintaining law & order. On the other hand, its centralized, authoritarian, hierarchical structure make it vulnerable to abuse of power, especially when you have Sith leadership at the top. It's also human-centric, giving most non-human sentients a subordinate status, which may be good or bad depending on your perspective.
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No.22370
>>22352
>"posting anime girls means you're a weeaboo!"
You don't have to be full-weeb, but you must acknowledge the past, which has shaped imageboard culture as you know it now. You don't want to be a normalfaggot like EmpLemon, do you?
>>22360
>>22353
I asked >>22333 for a source for his claim.
I told >>22331 to fuck off back to reddit.
Unsure of whether >>22334 was done out of irony/sarcasm or if he was doing it unironically, I made the "ironic shitposting is still shitposting" argument with the MS Paint comic, and, annoyed, scolded him.
Your inability to see this is telling me you two are not very bright, that coupled with >>22353 lack of English skills.
Or, of course, perhaps English is not his first language.
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No.22374
>>22370
Also,
>you must choose a flag to post on this board
Why?
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No.22375
I haven't posted in a month or two, but I have one question.
What happened to get a politics cyclical made on /sw/? Did /leftypol/ or cuckchan raid the board while I was gone?
the galactic senate thread was pretty fun though
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No.22376
>>22375
Just political autism, but you should try reading the thread before you post.
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No.22378
>>22375
*Also this >>20557
Many threads about Rian and politics were made, which was cluttering up the board.
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No.22380
>>22370
>first image
Oh wow, that makes a lot of sense. Although, supposedly, /g/ was originally Guro, but then that's still Romaji. Gijutsu for technology would make sense.
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No.22381
>>22380
*sage for off-topic, of course.
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No.22382
>>22378
I recall the Rian Johnson threads, but the politics usually died down after a certain amount of posts. And it was usually on-topic to the subject of the thread from what I recall. though after reading the earlier posts in this specific thread, the argument about libertarianism being pozzed or not really has nothing to do with /sw/
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No.22383
I can see the flag display in this thread and the index, but it's nowhere to be found in any other threads. What gives?
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No.22395
>>22383
Have you cleared your cache/cookies?
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No.22396
>>22370
>for a source for his claim.
I have some sources, however most of them are from TheForce.Net, Kotaku and the Mary Sue and I only saved the Mary Sue and TFN ones.
Also why does he need to fuck off back to reddit? He seems to be shitting on the right people.
>>22374
>Why?
Why not? Flags are fun and hardly anyone's been using them.
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No.22418
>>22383
That happens with old threads sometimes, try clearing your data and postan again.
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No.22419
Cuck Wendig on the Kavanaugh appointment (I think; he's rather incoherent).
Naturally, the shitlib mind resorts to talking about eating babies and prolapsed anuses.
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No.22420
>>22370
>You don't want to be a normalfaggot like EmpLemon, do you?
What did that nigger say that that prompted you post that in a spoiler? I can't remember him saying anything extremely retarded recently.
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No.22429
>>22419
I cannot express how much I hate this faggot's face.
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No.22461
>>22370
Who the flying fuck is EmpLemon, schmuck?
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No.22462
>>22420
Apparently he thinks millenials dindu nuthin and that giving names to generations is just done by old farts for marketing purposes. All this while millennials are making the same mistakes as the boomers they hate so much. He's not entirely wrong, but he's a bit hypocritical for blaming it on the older generation while saying generations are bullshit. not that it matters given how many channels are run by self-reassuring hypocrites
>>22461
Some MonCal-fag that makes meme videos on youtube.
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