/monster/ - The Last Bastion of Romance

man I wish I could edit my post. the synopsis thing did not turn out how I wanted.

I'm actually the guy who created the monstergirl 2020 setting, btw if anyone is curious about past works.

>>394078

>>394080

>>394081

At a first glance, the title seems to instantly make me think of low-tier or just downright silly smut. Additionally,

>But one elf, Silas, one of the last males of his kind, has a plan to save humanity, and as a consquence the elves as well.

I don't know what else to say beyond that yet, but you wrote the 2020 setting thing, so maybe it might be interesting.

>>394083

I wanted to convey a few things in the title and cover.

Firstly, this is a fantasy story

Secondly, this is a fantasy story with smut in it. (don't want people surprised by raunchy sex scenes)

Thirdly, its a harem book. Again, I didn't want to surprise people.

I also wanted to convey this book centered around monster girls, but I didn't want to explicitly state "monster girl" in the title, and figured the description would help. I want to commission .less, or some other monstergirl artist to create a really cool cover, but they seem to be harder to reach these days for commissions.

>>394085

duly noted, but I feel you only skimmed the prologue as that's the only time I skim over monster appearance. But that's because in the prologue the monsters have the typical appearance a reader would expect. I'm rather engaged in describing them after that.

I'll see about putting your advice to use

"The creature was a demon, with supple blue skin and darkstraightnavy blue hair. She had a mischievous smirk on her face and a glint in her yellow eyes. The sclera was black where it should had been white, but it reflected light all the same in what seemed an unearthly glow. Her breasts were large and firm, and the envy of many. Her hips were slightly wider than her shoulders, and her legs were long and sinuous. Her waist almost seemed impossibly small forthe rest of her, but not so much so that it looked ridiculous. Her hands and feet had long red nails that resembled claws. But what made the creature an obvious member of demon-kind were her tail, wings, and horns.

Her wings were slightly folded, and resembled a bats, though rather than fur, they seemed closer to a dolphin's skin than any other texture. But they were a dark oily blue, like her tail which writhed and flicked below her as she smiled wickedly down at Ophelia. Her horns grew close around her head as they jutted out in an outward curve, like a black crown deeming her a kind of royalty."

You misunderstand me, I'm not saying you're skimming over a monster's appearance, I'm saying you're stuck on the superficial rather than the analytical. Lets go about this point-by-point on their own terms.

"The creature was a demon" should be said after describing the outward appearance/personality so the reader can come to that same conclusion. "with supple blue skin and darkstraightnavy blue hair." The fact that it's blue should be given more insight, such as why is it blue and how does it being blue pertaining to the demons character? Is it blue out of corruption or because the creature is otherworldly? The hair color could be descriptive in a comparison sense to approximate a visual. As blue as the inner depths of the ocean paints a better mental image than dark straight navy. "She had a mischievous smirk on her face and a glint in her yellow eyes" is fine, but you could go even further by exclaiming what her eyes look like in comparison to a human or how her smirk pertains to her character, establishes her flirtatious or cocky nature.

"The sclera was black where it should had been white, but it reflected light all the same in what seemed an unearthly glow." you could go even further by expressing how black they are or an approximation, and how it pertains to her person via corruption or ill intent. "Her breasts were large and firm, and the envy of many." again, you need to explain how her large and firm breasts compliment her character or how she uses them. "Her hips were slightly wider than her shoulders, and her legs were long and sinuous." see above. "Her waist almost seemed impossibly small forthe rest of her, but not so much so that it looked ridiculous." the degree of ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder, you could simply say her large breasts and hips give her an hour glass shaped body as you've already described both. "Her hands and feet had long red nails that resembled claws." she has claws on her feet?

"But what made the creature an obvious member of demon-kind were her tail, wings, and horns." Are horns, wings, and a tail exclusive to demons in this setting? What is a demon in this context? Is a demon derived from her outward appearance, her origins, or her species?

"Her wings were slightly folded, and resembled a bats, though rather than fur, they seemed closer to a dolphin's skin than any other texture. But they were a dark oily blue, like her tail which writhed and flicked below her as she smiled wickedly down at Ophelia. Her horns grew close around her head as they jutted out in an outward curve, like a black crown deeming her a kind of royalty."

So the wings are furless, the texture is smooth/oily like a dolphin's skin, and her tail is just a featureless tail that moves to her emotional state? It's hard to visualize your description without already knowing what a demon looks like. Her horns shaping in a manner that hints at royalty is a good start though, a good mirror into the characters soul. Does she act regal or in a manner that sees others below her? Because crown-shaped horns would definitely compliment that.

How the character looks compliments her personality and place in the setting, so it's important that every aspect of a character exists for a reason. That goes beyond clothing choice. Why is her skin blue? Why are her horns arched in such a manner? Why is her body shaped in a lascivious manner? It can't be 'because she was born that way' or 'that's just how they look', you're the god of this world/setting, you make the characters the way you see fit in a manner of which helps establish to their reader their intent and place in this world. Not only that, but how they themselves use your world in what manner they deem advantageous.

Don't rip from the MGE and change a few words here and there, you'll have an identity crisis.

>>394078

>I'm posting the whole thing here because you guys are cool

Prepare to get bullied, nerd!

>>394094

yeah… Its a bit nerve-wracking having something you care about and have worked hard on open to criticism. I'm not going to be a sperg about it though.

>”Each of the members of the Golden Cross had a particular array of spells, mostly due to personal taste. Devon preferred lightning and fire. He preferred ice and water. Kris devoted himself to healing and light- based spells. And Danny? He enjoyed conjuration and summoning.”

This is a minor nitpick in my eyes, but is this paragraph necessary? why tell us what their specialties are at all when you show off their magic in the fight against the overlord? Showing is always better than just telling.

> “That red lightning must have some sort of supernatural property, but he had no idea what that might be.“

why doesn’t David know at least something about this lightning? Not only are they brothers, but they both work together, presumably for several years. Surely they’ve discussed some of the intricacies or the nature of the magic they use, since their lives and livelihood not only depend on understanding their own magic but the magic of their teammates as well.

>“The last one was from Zipangu, that he was sure of. He had a squarish face, and not even the smallest hint of facial hair. He had short spiky black hair and dark eyes. He wore a black and gold garment native to the Zipangu lands that Skye was unfamiliar with.”

Against minor nitpick, but if he is unfamiliar with zipangu how does he know Danny is from there?

also isn’t zipangu copyrighted?

Another thing is that I think you’re giving the audience too much information too quickly about things that aren’t really going to matter much in the story. We start in a battle between a group of rebelsI’m assuming they are given Hugo says he had been about to “destroy the last remnant of resistance to King Titus's rule“led by General skye and the army of King Titus led by Hugo.

So we immediately know there’s a civil war of some sort(likely pretender nobles given Skye had to pay a “ludicrous price” to hire them and peasants typically don’t have a lot of money to hire wizard mercenaries) that alone is something that takes a moment to process and raises all sorts of questions. Why exactly is skye rebelling? Is skye the one who wants the throne or does he serve the one who does? How long has this fighting been going on if Skye is the last group resisting Titus? Is it maybe that Titus is some kind of foreign conquerer?

When our wizards wizards appear they mention they were attacked by assassins. Who sent these assassins? Was it Titus, trying to keep the wizards from changing the course of the battle or was it someone else our wizards have made an enemy of?

Then before we’ve really had time to process all of this, the demon lord and his army appears from the forest and attacks. And we suddenly find out there are monster overlords who frequently attack humanity with their savage hordes.

And this all happens in 26 pages.even less once the pages are properly formatted its too much information delivered over too little a space. And most of the answers to those questions become pointless because so much time has passed. Whatever the reader had invested in the story by that point is pretty much lost, and they have to start over.

I will also somewhat repeat bromonts second point here >>394085

It feels more like the characters are speaking and acting because the story needs them to say and act in certain ways, rather than the story being driven by what they say and do.

>>394095

I wouldn’t be too nervous, criticism is helpful. If they just say “your book is shit” then that’s not really criticism. Criticism helps you improve.

>>394103

So… should I just get rid of the prologue altogether, or should I fix it? I can get rid of the assassins line, its completely irrelevant. I went ahead and deleted that first paragraph. You're right that it was unneeded.

Also Zipangu is just the old word for Japan, like Albion is the old word for England.

Thanks for the book. I needed to get something to read while I take a flight and now I have that something. Appreciate it.

>>394119

You're welcome!

>>394112

Cutting the prologue or changing the prologue both have advantages and disadvantages.

Cutting the prologue and using something like a flashback let’s you remove the excess information and focus solely on the one character and events from their point of view. It also tends to be faster because you just have one person telling the story rather than watching everything happen and possibly switching viewpoints. The reader is less likely to develop attachments or become invested in the other characters since they’re either dead or not relevant to the story.

But the fact that the reader doesn’t become attached to the other characters can be a disadvantage here. Especially if you plan to bring some characters of the flashback into the main story. The reader will have little attachment or investment in them compared to if they had watched them interact with other characters, fight and struggle against hopeless odds and be beaten one by one.

A second disadvantage to cutting the prologue in this book is that we aren’t immediately introduced to the main character. In this story it’s not as big a deal since Silas is still central to the story but it’s something I think happens too often when it doesn’t need to. The biggest issue I have with flashbacks in stories though is that they tell what happened rather than what’s happening. You lose certain things in the translation between action and dialogue. For another thing it can hurt the characterization of David. Because we wouldn’t see him interact with his brother and his friends we don’t feel what he’s lost as strongly and so we empathize with him less.

Changing the prologue, rather than removing it, can give more information to the reader since there’s a greater variety of viewpoints with knowledge of different things and it actually shows what happened to the characters rather than just telling them. This usually gets the reader more engaged with the story than in a flashback.

Personally I would fix the prologue instead of scrapping it. Because really you don’t need to change too much of it I think. Maybe instead of two human armies fighting each other just one human army, or a coalition army, fighting the demon lord’s army? That simplifies the prologue by removing all the questions about the apparent civil waras well as why they were fighting each other Instead of the monsters since they apparently border them. and sets the stage for when you introduce the order by giving a precedent for humans banding together against the monster threat.

But it’s up to you which you think will work best with your story. You may find something else that works better or a different scenario to get started.

>zipangu is just the old name for Japan

I didn’t know that. I just thought it was something KC came up with.

Without reading a single page I like the tittle's alliteration. Good for grabbing attention. I didn't see any artwork for any of the chapters. Not every chapter has to have artwork but it'd be neat if you could put some into it. That's a lot of chapters in there which is not necessarily a bad thing but it can look intimidating for a more casual page turner.

When you do go about publishing the work I'll see about purchasing a copy after having read it myself and determining it's worth the coin. That way when I go to leave a review it'll have that "this reviewer purchased this product" stamp next to it. I'm assuming there's not some really degenerate NTR or "muh pronouns" tier content woven in there.

>muh harems

As long as the story is good I don't see harems being a problem if the characters are interesting and believable.

>>394132

If you have no talent with drawling you can check in the draw threads to see if there's anyone who'd be willing to lend their talent… for a commission of course..

For reference I'd day Monstergirl doctor has a decent amount of art sprinkled in between their pages but isn't overflowing with art. If you do artwork for EVERY chapter that's a lot of artwork for your book for sure.

Sorry kid, but it's trash.

>>394080

ah, you're opie! i remember you. i liked your stuff

i will give it a read when i have free time

>>394085

>you need to write it from the perspective of all parties involved. How the main character talks and thinks in conjunction with how a opposite character talks and thinks. If you just crank it in a manner that fits a narrative, it doesn't feel real or organic.

This is your opinion, but this isn't a good writing technique. There is such a thing as 'third person limited', which most writers use. You are referring to 'third person omniscient' which children's book writers use because it is easier for little kiddos to understand.

Don't do that.

For a reader over the age of seven, you don't want to know what the villain is thinking (beyond what strictly comes across in the dialogue) just because he is having that dialogue with the hero. It becomes boring and predictable because you just eliminated all surprise and uncertainty.

What if the villain is lying in the dialogue to the hero? Are you just gonna tell the reader that like a noob? So the reader knows the villain is lying? Don't be a child.

When you write anything, do so from one point of view, whether first person limited or third person limited. That will be much more realistic for the reader too because, lets face it, we don't read other peoples' minds when we talk to them.

Omniscient writing styles are only entertaining to small children and people with actual learning disabilities.

>>394230

You can also switch POV from one limited to another as long as there are clear breaks in the texts, such as ellipses or chapter breaks.

Just stick with either 1st or 3rd consistently throughout the whole story, however.

>>394230

Judging by the IDs, I think you're responding to someone other than the writer.

.

First comment didn't go through. I actually really like the story, and the description is fine to me. I think Bromont is just being pretentious. Im actually almost done, at the chapter "aftermath"

I really like David, Silas, and Bernice. They start off kind of generic but i really got into them as i kept reading. The others are ok.

You're good at fight scenes and the sex scenes are good too. The conversations are kind of stilted at the beginning, but it smoothes out. Or maybe i just got used to it.

I think the harem is kind of large, but hey i think it's kind of cool you made such a big one, don't see that too often.

There's gonna be a sequel right? I'd like to see more characterization for Nyx. She's barely there, but she's fun to read

>>394243

Why you being a dick man?

>>394245

Oh and here is your synopsis, since maybe you think i can't read that fast.

Ophelia, unicorn girl steals the spear because Delilah, the demon promised to help her seduce David. David gets in trouble with Silas who waterboards him. Then a mindflayer and a shoggoth help him escape. Oh, and the local Lord's son is actually already working with Delilah to take the city. Local Lord's son, John, promised David some elementals because the spear stole his magic somehow, and it takes like 20 chapters to figure out the spear steals parts of your soul. That part was kind of confusing. Anyway, he gets a gnome and an undine who take a few chapters to turn into actual monstergirls. David wins a fight against Silas and escapes.

Then we go to the ice queens winter palace and a Pharaohs tomb because Silas needs two more artifacts to get his plan to work. The chalice of eternity and the sands of plenty.

There's a heck of a lot going on in this thing really. There's more, but is that enough to prove i actually just read fast?

>>394234

>write it from the perspective of all parties involved

You literally said that he should write the dialogue from both perspectives, tardo.

Dialogue should be written only from the perspective of whomever has the POV. Writing it from a different perspective will necessarily include writing out the thought process of that character, which is something you don't want.

Their dialogue can be informed by their thoughts and motivations based on their role in the story, naturally, but that isn't what you said. You literally said to write the dialog from both their perspectives.

I would chalk this up to you being too dumb to know what 'perspective' means, but no, I think it's more likely that you are dumber than that. You literally meant to tell this guy to write in 3rd person omniscient.

Don't backtrack now just because you realized you fucked up your writing is, lol.

>>394247

This isn't fucking /lit/ you cumguzzling faggot. Stop being a pretentious faggot

>>394251

OP asked for thoughts and opinions. He gave his opinion on what would make the dialogue better.

>>394247

>>394251

please be nice to each other.

Also yes, I'm working on a sequel and it will mostly be exploring existing characters. Eventually I'll be moving on to Devon who will have adventures in the Mist Continent, and that'll be more chinese adventure.

>>394249

I think what he was trying to get at was that when writing dialogue OP should keep in mind the different views, knowledge, and motivations of each character when they speak.

It’d be like if a devout catholic character and a devout atheist character were experiencing something supernatural at the same time. We might expect the catholic to begin praying to god and the atheist to be confused or explain away the event. Afterwards we might (at the least)expect a heated discussion between the two as to what exactly happened. Instead we find the atheist has suddenly converted to Catholicism after the event, not because he was slowly progressing to the point where he accepted the existence of god and the divine but because the story needed him to be catholic.

The characters seem like they’re there to advance the plot rather than the plot advancing because of what the characters say or do.

>>394256

I covered that. I said this:

>Their dialogue can be informed by their thoughts and motivations based on their role in the story, naturally

I believe that this is what he WANTS us to think he meant, but he just worded it poorly because he doesn't know what the word 'perspective' means.

I think that is a lie, however. I genuine believe he is dumb enough to believe that 3rd person omniscient is the best way to write. Then I explained how wrong he he was and now he is trying to play dumb and say he meant something other than what he wrote.

>>394259

It does sound to me like he is preaching a very different style of writing, but I still value his input. Yours too

>>394265

I set out with the explicit goal of sticking to MGE canon because I saw it got critiqued a lot for just being a porn setting. I thought it could be adapted into an actual story. Granted, with smut in it, but the demographic problem I thought was a genuine concern, so I went with that as my antogonist's motivation.

>>394267

Well, smut's just par-for-course for a monster girl setting of any kind, really. But people who don't know about the MGE, or of it, are going to be confused by many of your depictions of species and races. You don't go near into enough depth about what each race/species are, where they come from, why they look the way they do, that sort of thing. You kinda just scratch the surface and expect the reader to know what's what, most of the time.

That's fine if this were a fanfiction, since a random person would look up what it follows, but it's not quite that. It's a story that loosely follows the MGE. Now, there's nothing wrong with you making a book-length fanfiction of the MGE and marketing it as such, or sorta retooling it to help your narrative. I'm not saying you shouldn't do that. But if you're going to do something more original, you need to really own the monster girls as if they were your own instead of relying on previously established notions and experiment some more. Assume whomever is reading your story is doing so out-of-context and do your best to invite them into your Frankenstein setting, a good first impression goes a long way.

I'm rambling, but I'm hoping you get what I'm tell you.

>>394259

I must have missed that part then, my mistake.

>>394265

Yes, Tardo, as I said, I covered that. We all know exactly what you are trying to claim you meant, now, after the fact. There is no need for you to repeat that lie. It's clear it's not what you originally said and meant, no matter how many time you repeat it.

You clearly said that dialogue should be made from all points of view. That is childish and stupid, as you now admit, but only after I called you on it. Now you are doing a poor job of changing your story up.

I sincerely worry for what would have happened with this author if I had not come along and not only corrected you, but got you to admit I was right. The fact that you are now claiming to be representing my side the whole time isn't that important, as long as the author now knows that the crap you were originally peddling is exactly that.

>>394081

>I'm actually the guy who created the monstergirl 2020 setting

I'm having trouble trying to find your setting. Can you point me at the right direction to find and read it?

>>394491

http://touchfluffytail.org/?story=monster-girls-2020

http://touchfluffytail.org/?story=monster-girls-2020-kingdoms

I found them

>>395202

Bought and finished. I'm assuming there is going to be a sequel or two?

>>394450

Clearly this is the way to write a book though as the good man is killin it on amazon.

So why is the mention of Male dwarves going extinct barely touched upon?

I thought David or hell even the monsters themselves would've been more hung up about it do they just not care?

>>395202

Look at this fag right here. Can you embed pictures in amazon review comments? I have some cool things to show this dude.

>>397059

Maybe he's a mormon who assumed this was a theological work.

>>395290

I'm planning on two sequels with David as the protagonist. Then I'll start exploring other members of the Golden Cross as viewpoint characters. I set up the entire harem in this book, (no one else is getting in) and I'm exploring the characters in the two sequels.

>>397028

Monsters have full faith that they will come back. Silas does not. David is new to the world and is trusting his personal connections over theory and conjecture. That means he believes Silas at first, and then later believes his wives

>>397059

that one is funny, but I put harem in the title and the summary is very open and clear about what the book is. He has no one to blame but himself

>>397067

But no one on the monster side even mentions the Male dwarves dying out its completely glossed over, is there actually going to be some moral ambiguity in this series or is just going to be completely black and white

>>397078

I'm not quite sure what you mean. The story is not really meant for deep questions of morality. I try to give depth and reasoning for every character, a reason they do what they do. Like Silas said, its largely a matter of faith if the Overlord will succeed or not. but the reasoning of those who side with one or the other are almost always personal rather than ideological.

>>399535

You're arguing semantics in a shill thread for a book that does not coincide with any of /monster/'s collective beliefs yet isn't bombed to death solely because the author isn't a complete dipshit.

Does it belong here? No. Is it a good book? Not really. But it has monster girls, and Opie's pretty chill.

>>399541

Sematics? It seems like its your distinctions that are arbitrary.

>>397067

>I'm planning on two sequels

Don't.

>>399541

You seem to be unable to disassociate "non-humanness" from sex. The presence of a demihuman as the japanese would say male does not mean it is a monsterboy.

Does "Silas" have a hentai-level sex drive? Does he have monster-mana? Is he depicted with the intention to arouse homos? If not then he isn't a monsterboy.

I'm not saying writefags should put non-human males in all there works, I'm just saying it isn't necessarly /chaos/

Also If you want to claim I'm arguing semantics, then I think it's worth pointing out that a lot of what's considered a monster girl is based on arguing semantic. Elves aren't monsters like werewolves or minotaurs or things that hide under beds, but they're non-humans so they count. It's the same with robots.

>>399535

Monsterboys or animals are fine in a setting as long as they're not romantically involved. Lynch any furfags that try to to worm they way inside.

>>399818

No, you let one in and it contaminates the whole thing. Like a turd in a punch bowl, don't even chance it.

>>399828

So what do you think about Bromont?

>>399828

board's been over this since dusky made the place. you're being an incessant newfag about it. rules were that you are allowed to have those things in your setting but just don't make them a focus or have them be integral to drama within a story because people are liberal when it comes to drama.

>>399881

Basically this, Monster Musume and Fat Potato Elf are allowed here for a reason.

>>399888

Heh, Fat Potato Elf

What about Interviews With Demi-Chan?

>>399912

Why would that be banned?

>>399541

>/monster's/ collective beliefs

>collective beliefs

>collective

fuck off with your commie-tier hivemind shit.

>>399818

Monster boys are not allowed because they are competition for monster girls, they are not allowed because it inevitably turns into gay shit along with trap garbage.

>>401340

Sarcuck pls

>>401421

Well then I guess we won't have a problem banning you

>>401421

>This is just factually wrong

Go look up the rule 63 MGE girls that faggot Fizzshire commissioned along with the futa and trap pictures in some MGE fanart gallery. Then come back here, apologize and finally bite down on the muzzle of a gun and blow your brains out.

The only thing I have to say to Opie is that you're a complete phaggot. Are you going to finish that one story about the phrantom and the guy in your monster girls 2020 setting?

>>401490

phantom, as in that phantom of the opera ghost girl

>>401490

that was actually a fan work. Someone who liked the setting and I told them to go ahead and use it.

>>401505

Bummer. Whoever wrote that needs to finish it.

>>397067

>I'm planning on two sequels with David as the protagonist. Then I'll start exploring other members of the Golden Cross as viewpoint characters.

You really shouldn't, you need help with your writing. Badly.

>>401528

Care to elaborate?

>>403097

Worked for RA Salvatore

>>403096

If you’re happy with what youve written and are happy with your name being attached to this then go ahead and publish it. If it were me I’d probably spend a few weeks or a month going over every detail trying to make everything perfect. But that is also a trap writers fall into. Constantly improving the book but never actually publishing it. It’s good you know where you draw your line.

Yo op I am curious on how many books you have sold so far.

>>403114

about 700

>>403097

Why do you consider it mediocre? Is it the overall plot, or the prose?

>>403115

>>403097

It appears, Bromont, that a book does not need to be good, nay it merely needs to have the right keywords to succeed.

>>403135

Read the thread.

>>403163

that's a bit harsh.

>>394078

>880 pages

My goodness man, you must have experience or the atention span of a buhdist monk

>>403135

I think Bromont is saying that Opie himself has an attitude in which he views his own work as mediocre and is settling for that.

>>403818

its more like I've read a great deal of fantasy novels and I am aware that I am not Tolkien. I'm not Robert Jordan, or Jim Butcher. I have taken Bromont's criticism and am applying it to my sequel. But I am not eager to write a complete overhaul of a finished work. This is not actually my first book, just the only one I have felt confident enough to publish.

I was hoping more for a discussion of the actual story, but all that happened was a critiquing of my prose.Valid criticism. But ultimately, it did not impede several people from enjoying the story and engaging with it. I'm quite happy with my book and my characters and I think I've gotten all I can from what has been said.

>>403883

Mate you could have just said that from the very beginning. You’re just kinda being a dick about it now.

>>403860

We still dont know if they ever retrieve the artifacts from Silas

As far as we know he is still up and about

>>403883

He would appreciated more if you didnt act like a total dick

>>403860

other than what I said, its neat, nice to have quality writefaggotry other than KC's MGE series

>>403923

>>404066

>>404073

fuck off OP

>>404104

>he doesn't know what IDs are, or that I could do the same thing as OP

>>404115

are you a australian shitposter or are you just half kike

>>404115

Mate I was just talking about the way you went about giving the criticism. You gave good criticism just in a way that was kinda shit.

>>404128

>>404120

criticism is criticism take it or leave it. jesus fucking christ you guys are retarded.