Language degradation 引きこもり 02/05/18 (Mon) 23:26:28 b30fe6 No. 4120 [View All]
The worst thing for me as a hikki is that I am slowing but steadily un-learning my own native language.
English isn't my native language, it's German. I have no social contacts, no friends, no one, I don't even really talk to my family (rarely only). I don't have online friends either. 90% of all "conversations" I have are posting in English on 4chan (full of fucking normies though) or 8ch.
I can't say a full sentence in German without stuttering, and fucking up the tone and stress of the words. I also struggle remembering words, and sometimes I mess up the more complicated grammatical structures.
It goes without saying that the same applies to English, since I only ever write English and never speak it out loud.
I feel like a foreigner in my own country.
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引きこもり 05/23/18 (Wed) 16:00:39 16d47b No. 5662
So, as pathetic as it may be, I’ve decided to get into the habit of using my mother for conversation practice. She’s the only real social outlet that I have and the only person I feel comfortable enough around to talk to. I’m doing this because I feel as though I’ve completely lost any capacity to hold a conversation, even just small-talk, and this is the only way that I can think of to help rehabilitate myself. I’ve told her about this since she asked why I was so talkative all the sudden, and she has agreed to entertain my autism and have these 30-45 minutes talks with me every other morning, which she has been good for so far.
It’s honestly a kind of a blackpill how anxious I get even just talking with my immediate family members.
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引きこもり 05/24/18 (Thu) 03:31:18 45ca15 No. 5663
>>5662
>So, as pathetic as it may be, I’ve decided to get into the habit of using my mother for conversation practice. She’s the only real social outlet that I have and the only person I feel comfortable enough around to talk to
I don't think that's pathetic anon i think that's a good first step to try to reconnect with people. Try to open up with her as much as you can and tell her that you love her because someday she will pass on and no longer be with you.
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引きこもり 05/24/18 (Thu) 09:49:26 ea928e No. 5665
>>5662
Tbh, Anon, I think that's absolutely adorable! I want to pinch your cheek. It is pretty pathetic, though. I hope it works out for you.
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引きこもり 05/25/18 (Fri) 13:47:05 77d9a1 No. 5679
It's happening to me too. I stutter too much when speaking in my native language. But I think this is more of a communication problem rather than language-specific.
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引きこもり 05/26/18 (Sat) 11:52:07 5e2a35 No. 5680
My speech is better than it was before but I find sometimes words get mixed up for example kettle->oven no idea why it happens because in my head it's the correct word but it changes when spoken
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引きこもり 06/15/18 (Fri) 01:01:09 d80f22 No. 5794
There was a year which I spent nearly completely in my room (I wasn't absent to school, but I never, in any occasion, talked with anyone). This period is probably relatively short, but I have experienced some problems during and after it. They are mostly related to intelligence, and it shows that I have declined, because I am intellectually gifted and I had a good education. I still have them today, but they are more moderate now. They were:
1) Forgetting social skills: this was probably caused because I have Asperger's syndrome. I learned some social skills progressively throughout my life, but when I stopped using them, I forgot them. Also, during this period, I did not talk with anyone in the Internet as well, so I really didn't talk with anyone;
2) Problems with memory, attention, creativity, and reasoning: it seemed that I wasn't capable of creating the most slightly original idea during this period, and I was very creative before. I also had problems with memory, and I couldn't even remember things which were said by others seconds before, and that was very common. In 30% of the time I started thinking about something different, I forgot what I was thinking before, and I struggled to remember it (most times, I didn't). I couldn't pay attention to what people were saying as well (I only paid attention to teachers).
3) Thinking and writing unconsciously: it is very difficult to me to connect one idea with another. Sometimes, I am thinking about something original, and I try to describe it with words. However, I tell the first thing that appears in my mind, after 5 seconds, and that is a mess. I say nonsense things, that have nothing to do with what I am thinking. Also, I committed serious mistakes in the last years due to that, which were embarrassing, and I don't want to share here.
I am under-18, and I am from Brazil. This period was between 2016 (which was the most serious year) and 2017. Everyone I have talked to about that subject didn't believe that was true, and they thought that this was nonsense, so I had no help. Even my psychologist treated me as if I was stupid, he talked with me like if he was having casual conversation, changing subjects, not answering things as I wanted, giving superficial answers, and other things (I only talked about things which were relevant to my treatment). Luckily, I am going to a new psychologist, so I hope that this one will be better than the former. What annoys me is that this psychologist had a very good education, yet he was totally unprofessional. Also, my classmates where I went did nothing to help me integrate there, they ignored me all the time, it even seemed like they didn't like me.
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引きこもり 06/20/18 (Wed) 05:26:50 287c4b No. 5835
>>5794
If you're thinking about being autistic or something, you should go to a psychiatrist as well. All that psychologists would do is talking to you and making you understanding yourself with chit chating, but the psychiatric will try to scratch the problem out of you and ask for symptoms, looking for a possible mental disease and ways to cure it, by therapy or drugs.
Vai pro CAPS, filho da puta.
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引きこもり 06/20/18 (Wed) 17:10:50 d80f22 No. 5836
>>5835
I was diagnosed as an aspie when I was 4 years-old, by another psychologist. My father's got Asperger's too, and he saw some signs of it on me, which is why he suspected that.
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引きこもり 07/17/18 (Tue) 07:13:55 a404ec No. 6026
>>5794
> Even my psychologist treated me as if I was stupid
> What annoys me is that this psychologist had a very good education, yet he was totally unprofessional.
The more of them I see, the more convinced I am that even psychologists don't really care about you. It's really disillusioning. They're a helping profession, they're supposed to care. But for the most part they don't.
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引きこもり 07/17/18 (Tue) 07:17:31 a404ec No. 6027
>>5794
> Thinking and writing unconsciously: it is very difficult to me to connect one idea with another. Sometimes, I am thinking about something original, and I try to describe it with words. However, I tell the first thing that appears in my mind, after 5 seconds, and that is a mess. I say nonsense things, that have nothing to do with what I am thinking.
Do you still do that, anon? I'm having a lot of trouble with that too. Still working on it though.
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引きこもり 07/17/18 (Tue) 18:21:55 96147e No. 6034
My arabic isn't the greatest since we don't really use it in our daily lives but we use a totally different dialect. My french is degenerating although all my study subjects are in french but i don't use it in conversations or anything, i noticed my vocabulary isn't that rich and my mind goes blank when i try to make a phrase and i mix between french and english in terms of orthography.
My english is much better than my french imo since i used to play and still playing some mmos that is if my shitty set isn't letting me down. Currently i'm just browsing exactly 3 imageboards all day or watch KBS or NHK (Like you learn 2 languages at the same time)
I feel empty because i don't enjoy anything and i'm delaying a really important project and i feel bad about it.
My cats are the only ones that comfort me each day.
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引きこもり 07/23/18 (Mon) 04:33:30 f2aef5 No. 6110
>>4120
French hikki here, after highschool i decided to drop out and locked myself up, been trying to keep myself busy till now by mostly reading japanese stuff, drawing and posting on 8chan/4chan in english. I use english for literally everything, words come up easily and faster and the grammar isn't as retarded than in french, i feel more at ease. But because of that, i forgot to take care of my french and it has gotten worst, it's so bad that i've been only using it little to none in the past several months outside greetings and such. I struggle to find my words and can't use more than basic french, althought if something would ask me to translate a few words i could still but it simply doesn't come up as easily like before.
Now that i think of it, I've never had friends before as well and always been rarely talking to my parents or family, i feel like a stranger in my own home. I don't even know if i should talk to them anymore. I also been sent out to a psychologist by my parents for tests because they were worried about my situation and he diagnozed me with autism. Probably why i've never liked to communicate with people or interact with my surrounding, i've been alone my entire life. im not even turned on by real girls and spend my time jerking off to anime girls instead. Honestly i feel like a failure as a human being.
My dream was to live in Japan but i don't know if i want to anymore, not in that state. Should i drop the idea of learning japanese?
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引きこもり 07/23/18 (Mon) 13:08:20 cc1015 No. 6113
I feel like half the time I'm in some sort of non verbal childish mode where my voice sounds less mature and I can barely get a proper sentence out without sounding retarded.
I got no idea what triggers this since my inner monologue isn't even that inarticulate, It's like im inside a broken machine.
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引きこもり 07/23/18 (Mon) 22:09:53 69fa29 No. 6115
This already happened to me a long time ago. Years of neglecting my German, watching Chinese and Japanese media with English subtitles and posting on English forums made me get better at English but degenerated my German to the status of a Elementary school kid. Nowadays I know the English word for a thing faster than the German one and my speech patterns are elementary school like.
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引きこもり 07/24/18 (Tue) 15:07:10 045ddb No. 6118
I'm from Oz, we speak english. I've been doing some shitposting in last months and I used bad english to pose as a foreign person, learning english. Ironically, when I try to communicate in english I make more errors and sound less intelligent. It feels harder to say what I want to say as well. Plus I picked up the habit of being lazy with spelling errors, which sucks
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引きこもり 07/24/18 (Tue) 22:03:57 45ca15 No. 6123
>>6118
>I'm from Oz
Australia?
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引きこもり 07/25/18 (Wed) 11:53:06 ba3b6c No. 6124
>>6110
Japan currently has two probable futures: Either it will maintain or increase its level of xenophobia, or it will become another Sweden. In neither case would I advise a foreigner to attempt to move there.
However, if you enjoy Japanese media, it's still worth your time to learn Japanese, since translation/localization efforts are plummeting in quality these days.
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引きこもり 07/25/18 (Wed) 12:24:59 0f7685 No. 6125
>>6124
Do you have any advice on how to get started learning Japanese? I've wanted to for a while now but haven't been able to find the motivation
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引きこもり 07/27/18 (Fri) 00:56:03 280399 No. 6149
This is happening to me too, OP.
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引きこもり 07/27/18 (Fri) 12:00:52 c56ff8 No. 6151
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引きこもり 07/28/18 (Sat) 07:20:27 96df8f No. 6163
>>6124
>japan will either be a closed border gaijin fuck off country or become sweden level of refugees welcome
no such thing as a middle ground huh?
>>6151
who calls new zealand "oz"
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引きこもり 07/28/18 (Sat) 19:11:09 d3a948 No. 6179
>>6163
I'd prefer they go the gaijin fuck off route to be perfectly honest. The last thing they need is Islam poisoning and attempting to overtake their relatively concentrated and uniquely disciplined society. Those refugees drag in massive amounts of violent crime and have no intention of assimilating or respecting local customs and culture. Fuck em
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引きこもり SAGE! 07/29/18 (Sun) 23:34:46 62852e No. 6195
>>6179
You need to stop watching right-wing political propaganda, they know nothing about Japan. The middle east is nearer to Europe than Japan, it would make no sense for them to go in mass there anyway, especially considering that Japan never colonized or bombed their countries for Israel in the first place, unlike the West. Of course here is nothing good about political correctness, but there is also nothing good about praising xenophobia and normalfag nationalism.
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引きこもり 08/20/18 (Mon) 19:58:57 cbd1f8 No. 6324
similar thing happened to me anon. I am a native English speaker and don't speak any other language. Since I'm a hikki and don't go outside or have many social interactions with anyone, I mostly speak to others through text. When I started using a voice chat program to communicate after 5-6 months of not speaking out loud, I would constantly stutter and slur my words. I was so used to not speaking out loud that it made me sound completely retarded when I finally did.
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引きこもり 08/21/18 (Tue) 09:34:57 45ca15 No. 6338
>>6324
>I am a native English speaker and don't speak any other language. Since I'm a hikki and don't go outside or have many social interactions with anyone, I mostly speak to others through text. When I started using a voice chat program to communicate after 5-6 months of not speaking out loud, I would constantly stutter and slur my words. I was so used to not speaking out loud that it made me sound completely retarded when I finally did.
To avoid this happening to me i usually talk to myself whenever i am alone with my own thoughts do you do the same anon?
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引きこもり 08/22/18 (Wed) 04:26:55 cbd1f8 No. 6346
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引きこもり 08/22/18 (Wed) 06:33:02 45ca15 No. 6350
>>6346
>I started to now.
Good to hear anon.
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引きこもり 08/22/18 (Wed) 13:08:30 ba3b6c No. 6352
>>6195
>there is also nothing good about praising xenophobia
That became the prevailing belief in Rome after they allowed women into politics, and the results back then were the same as in modern-day Europe. If a nation stops being homogenous, it dies violently. You may not find it pleasant, but it's the truth.
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引きこもり SAGE! 08/29/18 (Wed) 18:23:15 5bf413 No. 6379
>>6352
if countries want to be a bit xenephobic that's fine and understandable but they should be mostly ethnically homogeneus like Japan or Germany once was/is without being crazy normalniggers lynching innocent people. This means no anti-muslim agenda that benefits forigen interests i.e Israel and Jews or artifical 'white nationalism' like americans make up. /pol/ is a cesspool of trash.
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引きこもり 09/25/18 (Tue) 01:35:58 d44ba8 No. 6425
I've been through that as well. With time you feel like you are becoming some sort of savage that cant even communicate except for text. Something that helped me a lot through that and my social phobia was actually online games. I started by being forced to socialize in MMOs(some things are just impossible to do alone), slowly learning my way interacting with people, made some friends there (it was really scary at first). Some time after that, some really popular virtual reality game came out. I was scared shitless of talking to strangers at first, but by trying a little every day and just hanging out in the game at my own pace, I managed to talk to a lot of different people and meet others with similar interests. Unfortunately, my anxiety and phobias are far from cured so I didn't manage to keep any of those friends. If you asked me if I would like to speak with strangers on some online chat about a year ago, I would certainly say no, both because I hate people and am scared of them, but as I am now, I can look back and say that it was a good experience and it helped me so much. Maybe I matured a little as well. Currently, I'm not a hikki anymore, i've been studying and working part time for some months, but almost every week I have panic episodes where I just want to give up on everything and never go out again. Im doing my best, and hope anyone who reads this and feels the same can also give it a try. Just remember to take it easy.
In short, I became a hikki because of frustations with life and other people, but after years of reclusiveness I've realized that it's not necessary to pour that hate and fear on everyone else.
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引きこもり 09/25/18 (Tue) 05:43:16 cd96de No. 6427
>>6425
I can relate to that, being really into those games when I was a teenager. MMOs helped me as well (in fact, locking myself in my room for months and just playing these nonstop was the first really big change that happened to me as a person, in my life). It ended up having an effect on reality as well, because I tend to speak the way I write, so developing one inevitably improves the other. The difference is that even being on guilds, I still did everything alone. I was never able to initiate contact with other people, and always felt like asking for help would be rude and I didn't want to bother people (I'm like that in general, not just in games). I want to be useful and I can help other people, but it's difficult for me to accept help. Basically, I always played more than one character at once (being my own healer) so I could grind to higher levels on my own. I upgraded my computer a lot back then so it could handle this better. I succeed every time.
Always figured out some way of avoiding other people. I guess that's my specialty, and all of that was a clear sign of how I would end up later on. Then again, maybe playing MMOs all day every day for years and occasionally even doing 36 hour grinds (I think that's my record, and during that entire week, I played 16 hours a day) was also a sign of that. Maybe I should wonder what other people thought of my methods, or if they even noticed that it was kinda weird how I do really extreme things to avoid other people. Maybe someone else here did that, so I thought it was worth talking about. I don't play MMOs anymore, though. It's difficult to play them in a healthy way (especially for me, being ridiculously autistic and so reluctant to interact directly with someone else even in that situation, and I also easily become emotionally attached, and that never ends well in those games), and they are objectively not even good games to begin with, considering how much time they take and how they are in general. They are only valuable as kind of a social experience, and experience that I have already had. Also, every guild that I have been in ended disastrously. Avoiding language issues isn't a big deal either. It tends to degrade, but occasionally I write a lot and quickly recover. It only degrades because sometimes I just don't feel like saying anything for a month or two, even online. Talking to other people is harder until I get used to it and get used to them, but that has always been a thing, and I never talk to strangers nowadays.
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引きこもり 09/25/18 (Tue) 16:58:23 935fdd No. 6428
Are you cursed if no one replies to your posts?
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引きこもり 09/25/18 (Tue) 21:45:01 1f24a8 No. 6430
>>6428
we are not cursed if it's all a conspiracy
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引きこもり 09/26/18 (Wed) 09:56:34 467bef No. 6432
>>6125
https://djtguide.neocities.org/
The standard would be to start with anon's anki 2k/6k deck, but I cannot recommend that from my experience.
Get Heisig's Remembering the Kanji I and II, as well as the anki deck for them, and Tae Kim's Japanese grammar.
Then do as much of them as you can per day. I do a chapter of grammar and 10 new Kanji a day.
The grammar is sectioned between elemental/basic/advanced. I'd recommend you repeat one section until it's 100% fixed in your head and only then start moving onto the next since you need perfect basic grammar to get any given sentence.
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引きこもり 10/11/18 (Thu) 16:25:29 67e64c No. 6495
>>6113
>>6115
>>6118
Reading writing aloud helps, whether it's a book, or posts on here.
I did my best Steve Irwin impression for ozposter. I miss him, he was such a sweetheart
>>6427
I used to love MMOs, but I haven't looked at them the same way since losing my e friend of 5 years three years ago.
Ironically, I played a healer to meet more people and get my friend stuff, but people tend to project blame on healers, so I never actually made any. Though, I did help my friend out, which was nice.
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引きこもり 10/16/18 (Tue) 14:11:56 5b66fd No. 6543
>>6430
>conspiracy
Off-topic, but Is it just me or is that word extremely overused, especially by the likes of the media and normalfags? Life itself is a conspiracy if some kind of God is in fact real anyways if you think about it.
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引きこもり 10/16/18 (Tue) 18:06:41 ba3b6c No. 6546
>>6543
It's a control-word with a preprogrammed response. If you don't want the masses to believe in something, label it a "conspiracy" and they'll immediately reject it.
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引きこもり 10/17/18 (Wed) 15:12:17 0dfcf9 No. 6570
These days I can say that I know English much more than my native language and I think I'm a bit closer to mastery. However, I still can't write as fluently as I want to ( If anyone have any suggestions regarding how to write fluently Please leave a reply)
I don't have anything to look forward too and I don't have any hobbies either. English has always been my hobby and I always wanted to improve it, but now that I'm capable of understanding practically 95% of English I grew sick of it. It isn't as challenging as it used to be. I'm no longer studying the language I'm enjoying it but that didn't last long though. I'm getting bored of reading books and watching movies. So I'm looking forward to find ways to write more fluently since it will be a bit challenging and fun again, But I don't know how maybe you guys know a way.
I really need to find a new hobby. I'm bored out of my mind staring at the wall for hours everyday.
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引きこもり 10/22/18 (Mon) 23:35:13 65f59f No. 6599
>>6570
Keep using the language and it should improve on its own over time. That's what I did, at least. In my case, I never had to study in the first place, it's just that as a kid, I had a lot more balls than I do now for some reason. I guess it's because I never questioned whether or not something was a waste of time, so I just ignored that I didn't know English and used it anyway. I had a dictionary, and then the translator on AltaVista, that I only used to translate single words.
I used that to understand video games and a lot of websites (a lot of GeoCities stuff, because those were still the cool days, and everything was awesome unlike today). I actually played some games in Japanese a little later as well. A few games I played didn't have English versions, but had English scripts on the internet (no idea who even made that, but I think they were on GameFAQs), so I could use that to figure out what was going on, basically using a language that I barely knew to get past another language that I especially didn't know.
I wish I could go back to being that crazy and learn Japanese using the same method (playing games that don't use kanji all that much because of hardware limitations, that would be doable), but I know how much time it takes to do that (and I did try to do it traditionally, but it just doesn't work, it takes way too much to just be able to use that mess of a language, but maybe this method would make it easier, I don't know). Sometimes kids can do some incredible shit just because they don't know what limits are and don't totally understand their own mortality. Now I always think about what would be the best way to use my time, so I don't do that kind of thing anymore. Maybe I posted this before, but it's a decent enough story, and it's relevant, so here it goes again. Basically, you learn what you use, and you don't even feel that you're doing it when you get good enough. If you don't use something, then learning it will be a chore until that changes.
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引きこもり 12/03/18 (Mon) 09:51:18 c72252 No. 6738
I find myself always talking as fast as possible, and in as few words as possible, because I just want to spend as little time conversing as possible. Even online, when I chat because I want to (and do enjoy it), people always tell me I'm really unforthcoming and just say extremely little.
When I'm not playing vidya or posting online I'm reading into military history, since it's the only thing I really enjoy fully. Only problem in regards to that is that my knowledge is very expansive, and I think it's actually been bad for me, and kind of representative of all things in life as far as conversation is concerned. I could give a thousand words to describe what is being said, but I couldn't articulate it well to someone who doesn't have my brain, and they would stop listening after 50, so I just kind of dumb it down and say a tiny amount. Don't know what I'm getting at here anymore, but it just feels like my autistic tendency to say more than I need and with vocabulary that probably isn't fitting for regular conversation has just disappeared from attempts to 'fit in' and now I'm in purgatory, can't do anything right.
Certainly doesn't help my CIA nigger mummy keeps trying to push me and find out what I'm thinking, don't know what I can do to just get her to stop prying, I don't care what she has to say, she probably has nothing worthwhile to say about it either, and it's not "helping" either. Does she think I'm going to one of these days realise E=MC squared is incorrect or something
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引きこもり 12/05/18 (Wed) 20:00:50 1ef630 No. 6753
>>6543
>t. Nippon Hikkikomori Kyokai
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引きこもり 12/09/18 (Sun) 09:04:46 5d51eb No. 6757
I'm having an interesting, opposite effect. My prior job before my mental breakdown involved legal, business, and medical language. From not talking with, I don't know how to phrase it other than "common folk", for prolonged periods of time, it becomes difficult to communicate with them. It's like I speak perfect English but they don't digest a single word I'm saying and try to interpret it differently. As they continue to misinterpret me, I become more elaborate with my language and try to indicate that my diction is precise and I am not trying to be roundabout with them in any way, but they typically don't understand and I shy out of my discussion and leave awkwardly.
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引きこもり 03/21/19 (Thu) 04:05:46 61ff38 No. 7251
I've always been criticized by normies because I have a tendency to used polysyllabic words in conversation. To the normie this makes them feel threatened because it suggests they are lower in the pecking order than you are in the pecking order. Also, I would spend a lot of time around adults and didn't care to make my self form accessible to my peers in conversation.
>>4120
I'm sorry I don't know anything about un-learning German.
Paul Stamets, a mycologist, has advice about over coming his studded and what other's can do to improve their fear of speaking. Sadly Stamet's advice is shrooms, so I don't know if that would be qualify as good advice to you. (Sad because they are usually illegal and had to procure and have a negative connotation that company them.)
I've found that since being enabled by the computer, I have not had any reinforcement to remember how to spell words and have progressively lost the interest in maintaining sentence structure of writing long form. I grew up with spell check and have become alarmingly reliant on it. I even lookup words that turn out to be spelled correctly because left to my own devices I can't be sure of a correct spelling. Not all languages have the same obsessive tensing and congregation that most European and Euro-offshoot languages have. I use this statement to challenge the disapproval of caveman like and blunted expressions. I like to think that they are a product of my Hikki-isum and there for it would sit quite well that I would only need a more nuance constricted lexicon. Mostly I just drop glue words, 'in' 'to' and the like. Being alone I don't really think you need them to negotiate intent to yourself.
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引きこもり 10/05/21 (Tue) 18:53:55 720bbd No. 7893
It seems to me that it only seems to us that the language is getting worse.
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引きこもり 10/06/21 (Wed) 07:52:54 d12be8 No. 7894
Oh, I feel you. The only thing that helps me is the internet, and I don't know what I would do if I didn't practice Spanish with my only penfriend. I'm worried that I'll forget it at all. I even thought about starting some courses or using at least Duolingo https://duolingo.com/ to keep up with the grammar and stuff. I've also heard that tutors can help, so I might contact someone from this site https://preply.com/ to help me practice Spanish.
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引きこもり 02/01/22 (Tue) 08:08:03 a3c6f2 No. 7907
Quite interesting I must admit
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引きこもり 02/01/22 (Tue) 11:23:34 2cdd57 No. 7908
I have studied French since high school. Unfortunately, I started noticing that without practice my language gets worse and that makes me frustrated. I decided to use https://livexp.com/ because the reviews say it's a great platform for tutoring. Possibility of 1 on 1 lessons online at any convenient time.
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引きこもり 05/27/22 (Fri) 12:55:36 8b7306 No. 7929
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引きこもり 11/25/22 (Fri) 06:55:48 5abf87 No. 7932
Thanks for all the comments and interesting discussion about education. I have been struggling with my English ever since I arrived to the States. So my neighbor gave me this https://promova.com/tutors/private-english-tutor link as he thought that private tuition is much better than any college or courses. And you know what? He was right!
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引きこもり 01/12/23 (Thu) 09:40:40 e089bb No. 7933
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