/fringe/ - Fringe

Ceremonial Magic & The Power of Evocation by Joseph C. (((Lisiewsk))). Some guy was talking about it a while back so I decided to read it. Not only does it contradict itself multiple times, but it attempts to instill in the reader the extremely dangerous belief that if you don't do a ritual perfectly then it'll cause you to be victim to an extremely powerful curse. If any neophyte read that they'd either be scared off from magic or make their life hell just from the belief that it would happen.

>>133309

>it attempts to instill in the reader the extremely dangerous belief that if you don't do a ritual perfectly then it'll cause you to be victim to an extremely powerful curse.

wew thats fucked up

>>133309

very interesting

that sort of seems to be the case in Judaism or pre-Messianic Abrahamic religion….the Bible and early Church teachings and stuff seem to indicate that just a bit in regards to sin…in that if you are guilty of sin (not loving) there are severe spiritual and existential penalties

>>133309

anon, would you say that really it's anyone's guess though as to whether or not that is true or false?

>>133332

you fuck up 50 rituals and see if you get cursed. no curse means it is false…

>>133332

I read some of it but not the whole thing. I got maybe a third to half way through. My best guess would be the curse is a system of beliefs and thoughts the author held that caused a chain reaction upon an evocation that was not up to his standards. Of course he did say he has seen it happen to others. Im not sure personally, I don't really do typical evocation.

>>133307

here are some things I've learned when going through misinformative things.

1. Wicca/witchery books are frequently nothing more than lesbocentric rambles that obsess over the feminine ideal and completely leave out the masculine ideal.

2. Crowley lies in his books at times, which he did on purpose, for all we know the "master therion" he talked about could've been something else.

3. Demiurge paranoiacs think they are doing the world a service by "warning" the people about it, but they are in fact, the ones perpetuating it in the first place. They would be better off not talking about it or believing in it in the first place.

4. Many places and forums confuse astral projection with dreams and lucid dreaming. Dreams and the astral are vastly different experiences.

5. There is very little overlap between schizophrenia and the occult, except when occult phenomena occurs beyond a schizo's endless dreaming-awake state.

6. Ancient books and texts (this includes The Bible) had very different meanings with the words they used, compared to today. Most of what's in these books is truthful, but it's not what we think it is, and that's a result of human nature.

>>133386

>3. Demiurge paranoiacs think they are doing the world a service by "warning" the people about it, but they are in fact, the ones perpetuating it in the first place. They would be better off not talking about it or believing in it in the first place.

>>133388

Is this really possible to conclude given that the Gnostics were a famous sect from ancient history and that this teaching is in fact an ancient teaching?

>>133386

Why invalidate others' experiences when it is just as reasonable or just as plausible as what you or anybody else would believe.

I understand it's not the venerable teachings of an ancient Church, an inheritance of a culture which "conquered the known world" but still if you invalidate others' spiritual experiences are you not possibly 'suppressing truth'?

>>133390

>"spiritual" experiences

Evola would like a word with you. It's easy to invalidate someone when they have no credibility, merit, and present themselves to the public as know-it-all psychopath. Those types make wild claims with no previous research or experimentation to back up their supposed "experience". In other words: charlatans.

To add to the thread, I personally stay away from any material that guarantees the reader he can obtain psionic powers strong enough to perform telekinesis or telepathy. I believe it's mostly /x/ browsers who believe in this because of "muh mk-ultra vidyoz". Suddenly images of the movie Carrie enter their small minds, and they set themselves to the task to obtain the impossible. All meanwhile ignoring the initiatory reading material.

I'm willing to bet even the sane Occultists here don't treat the Great Work as not only a journey of the soul, but also as a life-long collegial study.

>do you even keep notes, bro?

>MUH BEEEWWWWKKKSSS!

>>133386

>1. Wicca/witchery books are frequently nothing more than lesbocentric rambles that obsess over the feminine ideal and completely leave out the masculine ideal.

And the ones that aren't tell you to completely and unconditionally give yourself up to what is essentially the material world untouched by human invention, personified.

>>133389

Ancient Gnosticism is completely different from modern Gnosticism, being practically role-reversed, thus the paranoiacs really are perpetuating it.

Ancient Gnosticism:

>Believed the material is evil and the spiritual is good

>Compatible with Christianity, particularly Greek Orthodoxy

>Believed the Christian and Jewish interpretations of God are not one and the same

>Believed Christian God is the Monad

>Believed Jewish God, Satan, and Persian Ahriman are different names of the demiurge

>Believed Sophia birthed the demiurge and that the Monad created Jesus in response

Modern "Gnosticism":

>Still has some core beliefs of the ancient teachings, but warped horrendously

>Believes the Christian and Jewish interpretations of God are one and the same

>Pretty much every Christian parallel is role swapped compared to ancient Gnosticism, all beings associated with the spiritual are now evil lords of the material and vice versa

>Believes Sophia is a saviour figure, and that the demiurge created Jesus to mislead the world

>The reason I use the generic flag

>>133460

i think you make some good points and are quite insightful but anything is possible…sure most of us should keep away from anything that is not philosophy or keep away from any sort of wild guarantees of "super powers"…but still anything is possible, you surely know this as well do you not?

>>133472

That's a funny way to look at. Makes you wonder what the early Church actually was, huh? Perhaps it is nothing like it is today. I think the Church today is better in some ways and worse in others, and I have a particular sympathy for the Anglican and Episcopal Churches in this respect, if you know where I'm coming from.

The more research I do on it, the deeper this rabbit hole goes. It was actually considered a Christian sect during the time of proto-Orthodoxy. No "Church" existed at the time. And when Orthodoxy, Arianism, and Catholicism started growing into what we consider to be "the Church" Gnosticism was practically forgotten. After the Protestant Reformation, in which many churches wanted to return to their roots, some of the core beliefs of the various surfacing denominations bore a striking resemblance to Gnosticism. Including such teachings as salvation by knowing God, not being "of the world", and the world being wicked and fallen. These teachings had been already written in the bible for centuries, but the gold-obsessed papacy refuses to even acknowledge the existence of those verses.

Only recently did I actually start reading about it, and for the longest time all I knew about it was from actual Gnostics, so now that I'm finding all this information that suggests it's not supposed to be antitheistic and even originated as a sect of late-antiquity Christianity I'm left thinking, "What happened?"

tbh, I'd say that "Gnosticism" is a tricky term to pin down, because of how many people were actually part of that movement over many hundreds of years….and because of wildly divergent views and wildly divergent definitions of what it was or who they were

is the search for truth dishonest? is it dishonest to seek to know?

>"some of the core beliefs of the various surfacing denominations bore a striking resemblance to Gnosticism."

Indeed. From the Cathars to the Quakers. A few years ago I used to attend Quaker meetings every Sunday. They are anything but "Orthodox" and anything but "conventional" if you compare them to the wider world of Christendom.

>>133472

>I disagree with your claims that Wicca is anything but honest. I think it is an honest investigation and an honest search for the truth. Similarly with Theosophy.

>>133489

>is the search for truth dishonest? is it dishonest to seek to know?

It takes a special kind of person to believe the erasure of masculine ideals and cutting off half the human population from what you believe in is "truth". Anything that pushes you away because of arbitrary traits you have no control over is not worth your time and effort appeasing.

>>133489

The only constant throughout all manifestations of Gnosticism is 'salvation through knowledge'. People like this Christian cross guy making up arbitrary criteria based on petty likes & dislikes are autistic af

They entirely miss the point.

>>133390

>t. All beliefs & experiences are equally valid.

They really aren't though. Let success be thy proof.

>>133506

show me the mortal who can claim such success

>>133506

>>133538

Define success. My success is your doom. Have you done anything in life?

>>133546

This post is very edgy. I do not really get into vampirism. It doesn't make sense to me.

I probably won't share personal details about myself, regardless of who you may be or who I may be. Perhaps you may know about me irl or have heard of me?

>>133538

Show me a mortal first.

>>133546

>My success is your doom

oh lol

>>133555

Our mortality is evident by human weakness, such as people's decline in health as we age.

Anyways this thread is a cluster fuck and I do not really desire to engage.

But I will say this. CAN WE TRY TO NOT CORRUPT SEMANTICS?

nOTE THAT SEMANTICALLY, GNOSTIC IS OPPOSITE TO AGNOSTIC

therefore, gnostic simply means to know. Agnostic means I don't know

If you think you know, you are arrogant. There is no such thing as a gnostic, unless you collapse the universe and become God/Nothingness

sO THE TRADITION OF GNOSTICISM IS SIMPLY THE DESIRE TO KNOW

Some retards that think they know, call themselves gnostics, say the demiruge is corrupte, talk about 'false light' etc etc etc

really annoying. stop being arrogant pls k thx

I didn't really read the thread (yet?), but I had to say this shit.

>>133460

I concur

>>133470

I detect disinformation

here, but I think those nuances aren't that important right now. Some Jewish interpretations are more aligned with what seems to be the truth. It is all after all from the Torah and Testament. It's semantics, but I wouldn't call the Talmud Jewish haha I mean Jesus was a Jew was he not?

The semantics depend on whether you think Jesus is the best Jew or the Worst Jew

>>133590

Do words trigger you? wah wah boo hoo

One day I wish to thoroughly research the Hellenistic era.

The development of Gnosticism and Neoplatonism in the backdrop of the development of the Abrahamic Theology… That's the real story

>>133595

>perhaps society's mechanics

Which society?

Society is an artificial construct that is self propagated by each new generation, slightly adjusted to influences and (((special interests)))

I lost track of what you were saying after that. Hindus? Marxists? What?

This thread is a cluster fuck.

Humans invented Marxism and the caste system. This is exoteric, and not esoteric.

Only an esoteric explanation of physicality and the material world explains it. It's not because of the nonphysical realm, but in spite of it; in fact due to isolation from it.

It can all be summarized by saying that nefarious nonphysical entities that don't even like the nonphysical and are obsessed with the physical

Basically a bunch of retarded human ghosts that can't let go, feeding egregores and godforms that feed on humanity.

Simple and irrelevant shit. let's move on?

If your going to pretend to explain your actions, you need to try harder. go back to 4chan because your shit posting is just not up to par

In fact you could graph societies by analyzing the metaphorical chakra energy, so to speak.

The enlighetened self actualized society is when everyone is actually aware that they are not a human body, but have a human vessel, and that they are essentially nonphysical and we need to start scratching the surface of what we really are in essence, outside of the context of physicality.

And of course everyone knows that there are invisible nefarious entities everywhere all the time, and that they try to manufacture and abuse your consent to haunt you and implant foreign thoughts.

Only a spiritual self actualized individual (literal manifestation of one's ideal form into the imperfect realm of physicality) is able to ascend the trap of fear and then can start making use of the nonphysical energies, as opposed to being beholden to them

>>133620

>The way we construct a society and live our lives appears to be governed by ontological Universal and Natural Laws (i.e… "God's will" or "space-time fabric")…is it not?

It is God's law that nefarious entities exist and challenge us. You think that is against his wishes or something? He's testing us.

> it is still at the mercy of Universal and Natural Laws, or so it seems to our perception, and even to the mind of many famous philosophers.

Society is only at the mercy of the nefarious entities because the society has failed to ascend

>Jesus of course in the Bible appears to take a different stance, saying that we can bend reality through our mind or through our connection to God.

Is there any other truth?

>What I was saying about Hindus and Marxists is that…

Society represents the manifestation of their flavor of fear. Hindus are haunted by one flavor, Marxists are haunted by another.

Perhaps there is a caste system of demons to enslave the caste system of humanity, and other kinds of demons to enslave the other parts of humanity that have at least ascended the caste system (or are somehow even beneath that)

Do you think I am being metaphorical? There are billions of humans, and basically an infinite amount of literal nonphysical entities that are jealous of our physical existence. Meanwhile we are trying to ascend. The hedonists do not want to ascend, and it's the megalomaniac hedonists that are the most complicit/assimilated in the borg enslaving humanity.

>Who really knows what those nonphysical entities are thinking, and what their motives are?

To be particular, these entities are beholden to some sort of borg egregore or god form. I see it as entirely artificial, not at all sovereign. I wouldn't say there is any actual conscious entity that is assimilating the ghosts, so to speak; however I do think there is some sort of active foundation of negative prayer or energy of conscious sovereign entities, who are perhaps completely deluded. If there was a single entity that actively deluded them, I think that entity is no more. Or rather it is no longer autonomous (if it ever was, history is not my strongest subject) but the mechanism is definitely still there.

Regardless in the very abstract, it is of course manifestations and representations of negative ideals.

…I don't reject American society, I reject the hijacking of it by the deep state, Marxists, etc.

It's no poem or metaphor. I reject those who subvert and manufacture our consent by baiting our desire of freedom… That is the most accurate reference, although I suppose one can make a list or group all the nefarious ideologies that abuse the ignorance of others or are just paradoxical and such….

>but those of us who are enlightened also construct our reality (society) striving to act in uniformity with nature/Universal Law/Natural Law…etc…

Wrong. If you are enlightened, you are not beholden to society. I am outside. Looking in, I do not interact, except deliberately to help others ascend.

The exception (which is mostly the norm actually) is interacting due to fear and weakness. The ego is helpless and needs society. I am helpless and need my ego.

But my ego is just to teach me how physicality works and to help develop a higher dimensional construct (5d ego and such, the part of the ego that lives on and ascends physicality, so to speak. surely I have butchered the semantics by now)

So you could say that I am actually agreeing, but clearly we disagree on the notion of "striving to act in uniformity with nature/Universal Law/Natural Law…etc…"

There are many levels of nature, universal law, natural law. All of these are VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. DO NOT COMBINE THEM, DO NOT DO ANY OVERSIMPLIFICATION. This is THE GREATEST DISINFORMATION. Surely you didn't mean to do it, but alas all we know is the tool of language, limited by indoctrination…

In fact, the problems liberals have is trying to express universal laws in a realm that is firstly governed by natural laws.

In the perfect realm, there is no abuse of consent, etc. But in this physical realm, we all consented to incarnate here… We have to ASCEND THE NATURAL LAWS before we can express the universal laws.

Decentralization requires invention of protocols. Which means learn to code, noobs. Bitcoin was invented anonymously. Anything can be invented anonymously…

>I don't know anything about Chakras.

Okay well at least look up the term 'self actualized' and consider what that means in the context of an entire society.

I would say it means that a society that realizes, actualizes, what their true essence of spirit is. If you do get interested in Chakras, self actualization corresponds with the balancing of the highest chakra called the crown chakra

>Concerning society as a whole, is it really even (actually) possible to "force" everyone to be "enlightened"? Enlightenment by a single perception?

I never mentioned forcing anything. I was simply saying that I don't see any society that has ascended (although I think there have been ascendant societies in the past, ie Atlantis)

To say societies are natural implies that it is meant to be. What I say is meant to be, is that end goal (actually a mere intermediary goal, barely scratching the surface) of self actualization must happen and it hasn't in modern societies.

>We don't even really fully understand Universal and Natural Law.

Speak for yourself.

…What does any of this have to do with Marxism? Are you insinuating that I am implying we should all live in our own separate realities? No. I am not advising to force society anything, nor am I advising isolation

I'm not advising anything, other than to take heed to make sure we don't spread disinformation in our small talk, in a thread about exposing disinformation. And making assumptions about others, even wasting time to talk about them, is a very slippery slope to disinformation. Even rhetorically to prove a point, you can just pretend things about me are true when they are not and continue on with your point. This obsession to get to know each other to make sure it's not your enemy or if it is. Or what the fuck is this for? Lmao

>Surely, there would theoretically be those who disagree with you and the ruling party's perception…

So? What is your point? Stop beating around the bush. Just pretend your assumptions without saying they are true, and continue with your point. Why are humans so bad at dialogue? God

So you recognize we have divine souls and yet scoff at ideals. Dude. You are the problem. That is the kind of thinking that will never allow society to express it's ideal. If you say we are doomed to be greedy or whatever the fuck it is, then it is YOU that is the Marxist!!! Always attempt to attain perfection. That's how you improve and get progress. Otherwise, if you don't move towards perfection, you are moving away from it. There no other way. Existence is through spectrums of extremes.

The occult research is just to help me remember what I knew before I was born….

I never said ascending fear has anything to do with philosophy. Stop fucking putting words in my mouth I swear to God. What's the point of using nice words if you assume I am your adversary and keep attacking strawmen??? Just call me an idiot and tell me why you think that, because I have no idea what you want or what your trying to say, even after two giant posts of shit. I can read your mind, but I choose not to. Fuck assumptions. Man up and say what you mean, faggot. I'm not playing these gaymes anymore

If you really believed you can ascend fear whenever you want, then you would already know the truth and wouldn't be here shitposting trying to expose misinformation. Like what is the point of commenting about fear and philosophy? Where is your head at? If fear is so simple to ascend (it is, but I wouldn't actually say that or someone like me would come and berate me like I am to you) then go tell all those retarded societies to ascend out of their caste systems and etc

>>133625

>>Jesus of course in the Bible appears to take a different stance, saying that we can bend reality through our mind or through our connection to God.

And that is why, the first Hermetic principle is that ALL is mind. The ONLY thing that exists, is mind.

Existence is just a dream in the mind of God, so to speak

>>133621

You don't need to be an Abrahamist to read (Abrahamic) scripture.

But anyone that does want to read scripture, should actually learn the original languages. Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew… Enochian? Geʽez I just researched it and apparently many of those Apocryphal texts were completely lost only to be found in an ethiopian semetic language called Geʽez. Very interesting!

How dare you trust the opinion of the translator, or the consensus of a imperfect society or anything of that sort?

Anyways, what I was wondering is how the Neoplatonists ended up talking about the same thing as the first Christians and so called Gnostics and etc…

Imagine, an entire tradition and philosophy that has nothing to do with Christiantiy or anything Abrahamic, but are using the same terms as in the bible. Nous, Logos, Christos? Just the three most perfect ideals as explained in Plato's theory of forms and expanded by the Hermetic school of thought…. I love it all, and can't limit myself to any label or flag… It's all the same to me… But if I had to pick an apt symbol….

But personally I just want to look it up for sake of precedent, and to 'make sure' what I know is what it is. There is always so much left to figure out, but speaking for myself I just know too much and it's time for me to do things. And no, shitposting on /fringe/ is not what I want to do but it would be great if I had people I could relate to (whether that means I'm too woke or just fucking insane, remains to be seen. All that matters is coherence).

>>133625

>"Society is only at the mercy of the nefarious entities because the society has failed to ascend"

Says who? Is there any way to prove this?

>"Jesus of course in the Bible appears to take a different stance, saying that we can bend reality through our mind or through our connection to God."

>"Is there any other truth?"

There could be, seeing as we are dealing with Divine phenomena as mere mortals. We are without the understanding that Jesus had, obviously, Him being the Son of God.

>"Society represents the manifestation of their flavor of fear. Hindus are haunted by one flavor, Marxists are haunted by another.

>Perhaps there is a caste system of demons to enslave the caste system of humanity, and other kinds of demons to enslave the other parts of humanity that have at least ascended the caste system (or are somehow even beneath that)

>Do you think I am being metaphorical? There are billions of humans, and basically an infinite amount of literal nonphysical entities that are jealous of our physical existence. Meanwhile we are trying to ascend. The hedonists do not want to ascend, and it's the megalomaniac hedonists that are the most complicit/assimilated in the borg enslaving humanity."

Do we have evidence that those non-physical entities are 'jealous' of us? Like I said, the Universe is huge. What if they have their own universe or dimension somewhere far away from us that's like a paradise compared to our world?

>"Hedonists do not want to ascend."

I understand what you are saying, in alignment with your belief that 'material pleasure' gets in the way of enlightenment and ascension (to be the Übermensch I suppose you are saying). This is generally similar to what conventional religion teaches, save perhaps very rich or powerful groups like the Catholic Church (and many others) who believe that it is the Divine Will for them to have all sorts of grandeur and power. (Vicar of Christ…)

However, by the very nature of Hedonism, you'd guess that a 'Hedonist' wants all he can get. Including ascension as well as all of the worldly pleasures. Is it really right to say that "a Hedonist does not want to ascend"? Who knows the mind of that individual which you are calling "hedonist"?

>"Society represents the manifestation of their flavor of fear."

They'd probably disagree with you. I don't think Christian society 'represents fear', does it?

>>133625

>>133625

Also, don't forget that Capitalism has more haunts than both Marxism and Hindu Caste societies.

>"To be particular, these entities are beholden to some sort of borg egregore or god form. I see it as entirely artificial, not at all sovereign. I wouldn't say there is any actual conscious entity that is assimilating the ghosts, so to speak; however I do think there is some sort of active foundation of negative prayer or energy of conscious sovereign entities, who are perhaps completely deluded. If there was a single entity that actively deluded them, I think that entity is no more. Or rather it is no longer autonomous (if it ever was, history is not my strongest subject) but the mechanism is definitely still there."

^I don't disagree. I think it's possible but for the sake of our conversation is there any sort of evidence which can be employed in a rational investigation?

>"It's no poem or metaphor. I reject those who subvert and manufacture our consent by baiting our desire of freedom…"

…like the Republican Party and many corporate entities… the U.S. military…etc…

>"but those of us who are enlightened also construct our reality (society) striving to act in uniformity with nature/Universal Law/Natural Law…etc…"

>"Wrong. If you are enlightened, you are not beholden to society. I am outside. Looking in, I do not interact, except deliberately to help others ascend."

Are you not still bound by the laws of physics?

>"There are many levels of nature, universal law, natural law. All of these are VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. DO NOT COMBINE THEM, DO NOT DO ANY OVERSIMPLIFICATION. This is THE GREATEST DISINFORMATION. Surely you didn't mean to do it, but alas all we know is the tool of language, limited by indoctrination…"

Could you articulate this more? Please and thank you. There is only one set of universal/natural laws, and those are those which are real and ontological which the Creator or the Big Bang or whoever/whatever has instituted.

>"But in this physical realm, we all consented to incarnate here…"

Thus I say, "we are mere mortals", and most likely this 'ascension' you speak of involves bypassing all of the laws of physics and of the Universe which constrain you and your whole ideology…. probably through an event like death, where people we say we pass on to a world which exists after this present world.

No matter who you are, whether liberal or any other sectarian ideological force, we are all subject to one ontological set of laws that represent truth unless God performs acts of Divine Intervention to change laws for some people and asign different laws to others. If you read Abrahamic literature (which contradicts itself) you will find that it says that all mortals receive the same lot. (Even though it says at another point that God is allowed to do whatever he wants, really.)

>>133626

>"Okay well at least look up the term 'self actualized' and consider what that means in the context of an entire society.

I would say it means that a society that realizes, actualizes, what their true essence of spirit is. If you do get interested in Chakras, self actualization corresponds with the balancing of the highest chakra called the crown chakra"

Lol, okay. So you're saying that in order to have a proper society, we need to institute a state religion.

>"(although I think there have been ascendant societies in the past, ie Atlantis)"

Ascendant until they (through the ruling class magicians) destroyed themselves. Perhaps they were not ascendant?

>"No. I am not advising to force society anything, nor am I advising isolation

I'm not advising anything, other than to take heed to make sure we don't spread disinformation in our small talk, in a thread about exposing disinformation. And making assumptions about others, even wasting time to talk about them, is a very slippery slope to disinformation."

Also don't forget to mention all of your wild and unprovable claims you are making about Divine things as a mere mortal.

>>133626

>"Okay well at least look up the term 'self actualized' and consider what that means in the context of an entire society.

>I would say it means that a society that realizes, actualizes, what their true essence of spirit is. If you do get interested in Chakras, self actualization corresponds with the balancing of the highest chakra called the crown chakra"

Lol, okay. So you're saying that in order to have a proper society, we need to institute a state religion.

>"(although I think there have been ascendant societies in the past, ie Atlantis)"

Ascendant until they (through the ruling class magicians) destroyed themselves. Perhaps they were not ascendant?

>"No. I am not advising to force society anything, nor am I advising isolation

>I'm not advising anything, other than to take heed to make sure we don't spread disinformation in our small talk, in a thread about exposing disinformation. And making assumptions about others, even wasting time to talk about them, is a very slippery slope to disinformation."

Also don't forget to mention all of your wild and unprovable claims you are making about Divine things as a mere mortal.

>>133626

>"Even rhetorically to prove a point, you can just pretend things about me are true when they are not and continue on with your point. This obsession to get to know each other to make sure it's not your enemy or if it is. Or what the fuck is this for? Lmao"

Sorry, we don't know eachother, but all we can do is deal with the words and numbers and the rational conversation we have before us to deduce who is correct and who is the sissy wizard.

>"you are Marxist!!!"

In a perfect society where everybody is there own Übermensch. We would theoretically want a Marxist-style society so that everybody has a fair chance to express their powers properly and so that there are no tragic disasters along the way like there was in Atlantis.

>"The occult research is just to help me remember what I knew before I was born…."

I don't disagree. I wonder if there's any evidence of this?

>"I never said ascending fear has anything to do with philosophy. Stop fucking putting words in my mouth I swear to God. What's the point of using nice words if you assume I am your adversary and keep attacking strawmen??? Just call me an idiot and tell me why you think that, because I have no idea what you want or what your trying to say, even after two giant posts of shit. I can read your mind, but I choose not to. Fuck assumptions. Man up and say what you mean, faggot. I'm not playing these gaymes anymore"

I am not playing games with you, anon, I am being totally honest with you. I don't think your an idiot, I think you're a brilliant mind desu, we cannot be disseminating disinformation which we are all honestly guilty of doing at one point or another.

>"If you really believed you can ascend fear whenever you want, then you would already know the truth and wouldn't be here shitposting trying to expose misinformation. Like what is the point of commenting about fear and philosophy? Where is your head at? If fear is so simple to ascend (it is, but I wouldn't actually say that or someone like me would come and berate me like I am to you) then go tell all those retarded societies to ascend out of their caste systems and etc"

Anon, you clearly don't understand the true light and power of philosophy. Haven't you read Manly P. Hall? EVERYTHING we are discussing is philosophy because that is the truth behind all occult knowledge and all religion. That is what Jesus taught. Philosophy.

It is the Nous. It is how we interact with the Divine. Through our mind and the Divine purpose.

>>133689

Tips on learning these? I want to for the same reason as you. Trying hebrew right now and it seems impossible on my own.

>>133695

ahhh for me it was all repetition, m8

it took so damn long for me to read the Bible, like several years…and all that time I was going to churches and learning and referencing text with the old Hebrew and Greek….after a while of studying you get the hang of it

there are a lot of resources out there….Greek is probably easier than Hebrew because Hebrew has so many different dialects ….there is also much more literature in Greek

https://biblehub.com/greek/3563.htm

one thing that i did was memorized common Roman Catholic prayers in Greek & Hebrew

https://www.hebrew4christians.com/Prayers/The_Lord_s_Prayer_1/the_lord_s_prayer_1.html

i go to Greek Orthodox churches sometimes but I can't understand a damn word any of the native Greek speakers are saying unless it's words from the liturgy

Thought forms can act like entities particularly when they have access to human consciousness, and they have great influence over people. This is what prevents people from self actualization. Without it, the concept of self actualization may not even be necessary. I highly recommend this link and website.

https://www.clarity-of-being.org/dark-forces-true-nature.htm

The chakras are probably illusory, even if they aren't the whole thing with getting interested with them is perpetuated by the thought form viruses and is harmful.

>>133699

wow this is a really great blog, ty

>>133699

I'm liking what I'm reading there. I have always held a similar intuition about spiritual "reality". The one thing I don't like is his stated view about the afterlife. I want to keep experiencing after I die, and I want it to be real and meaningful.

>>133699

After reading a bit more I don’t know… The author seems very disempowered, even if his analysis is basically correct, the astral is part of the universe. Why not understand its true nature and use it for our goals the same way we use anything else potentially? His fear of “the garbage” puts him in a victimized position.

>>133538

What a strange question. If I wish to light the room, the belief that electricity acts according to Maxwells equations rather than say, redstone mechanics, will be successful. Success is achieving your intended effect, however mundane. Mortals are "successful" in many small areas, and what's true in the miniature is true in the large.

>>133589

>I will to cross the room

>I successfully perceive myself cross the room.

That's "success" you absolute brainlet - it's not about the perception or will of others. And since achieving your will is more or less successful using different means (again, by your OWN standards), repeatable patterns exist, ergo, some things are more or less approximations of "truth". Not sure why you sperged out like a faggot about buying cars and whatnot, lrn2reading-comprehension. Nobody was talking about "success" in the mundane sense of "society says having a lambo makes me successful".

Now, what did you mean by "mortals", ie is your standard of success having achieved some form of immortality? In which case, stop with the spoopy larposting and be specific.

>>133601

Also

>No such thing as society!

"Groups of stuff" exist. Egregores exist (you even mentioned that yourself). So in both the exoteric and esoteric sense, society exists. So what the fuck are you on about? Awfully offended by "mortals" and "humans" aren't you? I can sense the "le edgy gothic dark godzzzz" on you from here lmfao.

>>133470

>>Believed the material is evil and the spiritual is good

>Greek Orthodoxy

Orthodox Christianity is a very different beast from both Platonism and Gnosticism. It does not ascribe evil to either matter or soul. It doesn't even consider the mind/body spirit/matter separation to be real/absolute or of any importance.

Western dualism is between body/soul mind/spirit. They consider the split to be fundamental and determinative.

Orthodox Christianity has only a single fundamental split: between the created and Uncreated.

Uncreated is the Triune Godhead, created is everything else. Matter, spirit, body, mind, etc. You name it. It's all created from nothing. Created things (matter,bodies and souls alike, etc) are not eternal. They do not have Self-existence. Things that do exist, continue to exist because God, by His Energies continues to illuminate and pervade Creation, and keep it going so to speak. Like a flashlight showing a hologram, which is also maintained by the flashlight. Now, the we may know God trough His Energies, but the Energies of God are not God. I can push a pedal and that does not make me the pushing of the pedal. God "in Himself" is totally different from all Creation, though we may know Him directly or indirectly as He continues to act. This is knowledge of God, tough never Complete knowledge. We know God by his Energies, but not his Essence.

Gnosticism is a dualism based on an ontological split between body/soul and matter/spirit.

Orthodox Christianity is a Panentheism where the body/soul is considered as one. We do have a "split", in that the methods by which God (the Uncreated) is known is different from the methods of knowledge for the created world.

https://thoughtsintrusive.wordpress.com/2017/10/06/authority-is-experience/

>>133843

>>133688

>>133687

>>133686

>>133684

>>133685

>>133689

tldr

I did ask you some questions, but I don't care enough to find the answers in all your egotism. I don't care so much about your opinions, stop acting like you know everything. If you know the languages then good for you. I cannot trust the opinion of any translator, least of all a random person on the internet. I wanted to say that I don't want to argue, but I'm not even sure what you want exactly.

Since the point of the thread is to expose misinformation… Like what exactly do you want to talk about? We are better off making blogs and literally blog posting to each other but I don't think the internet cares about our blogposting =/

so that being said, I'll read your blog later

>>133699

>The chakras are probably illusory, even if they aren't the whole thing with getting interested with them is perpetuated by the thought form viruses and is harmful.

Charkas are pretty much the most practical energy system, so you should really explain all these unfounded accusations.

>>133843

thanks for explaining exactly how success is subjective. subjective is the opposite of objective. There is no objective meaning of success.

Perhaps arguments can be made about the meaning of success, relative to humanity, but those would still just be opinions, ideas that seem true to some individuals. Like how you think immortality is a good thing

>>133844

Societies exist, that's what I said. Artificial constructs exists. Egregores are artificial constructs. Try to ask specific questions or you will continue to drown in disinformation since you couldn't discern the truth if it slapped you in the face

>>133848

What you have said here is the cold hard truth. But for some reason, I think we have different interpretations of what this means, but I suppose it doesn't matter except for the context…

So would you say that this contradicts the notion that material is evil and spiritual is good? That would perhaps be a oversimplification, as it's more like the uncreated is good and created is bad, in essence. Within creation, the energies of the uncreated is good and in isolation from those energies there is the potential for bad.

>>133956

Based

>>133956

>t. Success is purely subjective with no

Crossing the room isn't an objective action? You're really hung up on "success" as meaning "subjective value" instead of "objective outcome, that I may have sought for subjective reasons" aren't you? I didn't "confirm" that success was subjective at all, anywhere. Is English not your first language? I'm getting that feeling.

>Immortality

You were the one blathering about "mortals", I'd assume you were a vampire larper or something. I didn't say anything about my own opinion on mortality - your reading comprehension needs a LOT of work. So again, what is YOUR standard of success then?

>Ask specific questions.

Like what? You're here to shit the thread up by arguing semantics. I asked you a specific question already and you didn't answer it.

Oh wait

>your egotism

But

>I don't care about your opinions.

You're just some larper who thinks he's got no ego haha. And apparently doesn't speak the language well enough to hold a conversation.

>>134018

Why do you keep trying to make conclusions about assumptions I never made? Stop being retarded

>>133684

>Says who? Is there any way to prove this?

Isn't it self evident? Do you have an alternative explanation?

These questions are pretty meaningless.

>There could be, seeing as we are dealing with Divine phenomena as mere mortals. We are without the understanding that Jesus had, obviously, Him being the Son of God.

This is pretty meaningless. What does it mean to be the son of God? Aren't we all children of God? Such a basic premise that you have accepted without questioning. It completely warps all meaning of the bible…

>Do we have evidence that those non-physical entities are 'jealous' of us? Like I said, the Universe is huge. What if they have their own universe or dimension somewhere far away from us that's like a paradise compared to our world?

Maybe. What is the point of your questions? If all you want is proof, pick one thing and I can try explaining it with evidence. How can your expectations ever be met with all this brainless questioning? I would appreciate constructive criticism, for example things you see a fallacy in, some faulty premise, or some other lack of deduction. Asking how and wanting evidence, I mean anyone can do that for anything. It doesn't look like you understood a damn thing I said. I would be more than happy to explain one thing if you actually picked one thing to talk about…

But let me try taking you seriously.

They obviously do not exist physically, but we do. They cannot access the physical realm but we can. I said that they are jealous of us, when they shouldn't be. We are trying to ascend out of materialism, but these low vibration entities are trying to come (back) to physicality and influence us, sometimes downright possession of our vessels to do their bidding in this realm. Many reasons why they are jealous, depends on who or what it is really…

>However, by the very nature of Hedonism, you'd guess that a 'Hedonist' wants all he can get. Including ascension as well as all of the worldly pleasures. Is it really right to say that "a Hedonist does not want to ascend"? Who knows the mind of that individual which you are calling "hedonist"?

Ascension needs direction and is meaningless on it's own. The kinds of ascencions in each spiritual culture has it's pros and cons, and it entirely depends on your goals.

Doing anything for the sake of itself is bad, but hedonists think that it's the only good, since it's all examples of the most base versio of this that is pleasure for the sake of pleasure. Even ascension for the sake of ascension is bad.

Everything is a tool to be used or abused. If someone abuses a tool, they are the one that get's used. And since you seem to be so obtuse, I will make it even more explicit. Ascension without direction, for the sake of itself, will lead to manipulation by forces promising abstract rewards in exchange for something… It's not inherent self development, it's just more slavery and stockholm syndrome…

>They'd probably disagree with you. I don't think Christian society 'represents fear', does it?

Are you retarded? Obviously if a society gains awareness of it's fear based thinking it will immediately ascend.

Awareness is precisely the thing that is lacking. What do you mean Christian society anyways? I'd be hardpressed to see a Genuine Christian society (perhaps orthodox) but the catholics and their obsession with equality shows how that society simply fears being overpowered by other societies at a subtle level, and since the lack of awareness results in the opposite there ends up a self fulling prophecy of the complete domination aod subservience of catholics to materialism and other nefarious forces.

And the whole doctrine of original sin makes it very clear that many Christian societies haven't even gotten over their fear of hell in general; many religious societies are self evident in their fear of hell and how it stalls a great many attempts at advancement of said society

>Also, don't forget that Capitalism has more haunts than both Marxism and Hindu Caste societies.

Yes. This only supports everything I've said

>^I don't disagree. I think it's possible but for the sake of our conversation is there any sort of evidence which can be employed in a rational investigation?

Define evidence. Define rationality. Western academia can't agree on the second, and apparently the standard has been changed for the former in the case of quantum "mechanics"

I mean if you want to talk about something in particular then I can show you whatever evidence you would like, but otherwise I'm just going to question this brainless habitual obsession to look anything to validate whatever questions your incredibly limiting belief system…

>…like the Republican Party and many corporate entities… the U.S. military…etc…

Are you retarded? why the fuck am I even reading this stupid blog jesus christ

>Are you not still bound by the laws of physics?

What does this have to do with societies? What the fuck does this have to do with anything at all??!?!

>Could you articulate this more? Please and thank you.

Be specific. Actually try asking a question that challenges your own belief system. You are really sad.

>There is only one set of universal/natural laws

wrong. There are physical laws, and there are metaphysical laws. There are also 'laws of the jungle' so to speak, ie Darwinism

>and those are those which are real and ontological which the Creator or the Big Bang or whoever/whatever has instituted.

wrong. There is the creator, and there is the big bang. The big bang resulted in the physical laws, but the mechanisms behind the big bang were emerged from the metaphysical laws that were enshrined by the creator…

>Thus I say, "we are mere mortals",

Thusly you are stupid.

>and most likely this 'ascension' you speak of involves bypassing all of the laws of physics and of the Universe

What the fuck are you talking about? Perhaps I referred to the abstract concept of ascension a few times, but I didn't even once elaborate on any kind of ascension or what that would entail, let alone . You REALLY need to fuck off with your assumptions of what you think I am trying to say (yet ignoring what I am saying at face value. SAD), your assumptions actually reveal much more about how you think and your own preconceived notions than it does anything about me. I'd like to get paid if I am going to psychoanalyze you. Therapy ain't free.

>which constrain you and your whole ideology….

I am not constrained, precisely because I do not subscribed to any ideology in particular.

>probably through an event like death, where people we say we pass on to a world which exists after this present world.

This has absolutely nothing to do with ascension.

>No matter who you are, whether liberal or any other sectarian ideological force, we are all subject to one ontological set of laws that represent truth unless God performs acts of Divine Intervention to change laws for some people and asign different laws to others.

Okay, what's your point?

>If you read Abrahamic literature (which contradicts itself)

Oh yee of little faith

>you will find that it says that all mortals receive the same lot. (Even though it says at another point that God is allowed to do whatever he wants, really.)

Context matters, but apparently not to you.

>Lol, okay. So you're saying that in order to have a proper society, we need to institute a state religion.

What the fucK?! That's what you got from "I would say it means that a society that realizes, actualizes, what their true essence of spirit is."

You have gone full retard. I even said that I wouldn't advise anyone to do such a thing…

>Ascendant until they (through the ruling class magicians) destroyed themselves. Perhaps they were not ascendant?

Ascendant doesn't mean immune to everything and completely perfect. Do you think ascendant means to be God? To be LIKE God, but no one can actually be perfect… Don't you have any common sense?

>Also don't forget to mention all of your wild and unprovable claims you are making about Divine things as a mere mortal.

Do you mean to say, don't forget to provide all of the evidence you have demanded for all the 'claims' I already made and explained? I would be more than happy to expand on one thing, but you can fuck off with your demands.

>Sorry, we don't know eachother, but all we can do is deal with the words and numbers and the rational conversation we have before us to deduce who is correct and who is the sissy wizard.

Well I'm not the one using the phrase sissy wizard. And if you actually had any critical thinking skills, you'd realize that attacking the source of information (ie the character of the person who is saying things) is completely illogical. Also you'd soon realize that rationality is the biggist obstacle to wizardry, precisely because it has nothing to do with logic. Stop assuming and try to actually make deductions…

>In a perfect society where everybody is there own Übermensch. We would theoretically want a Marxist-style society so that everybody has a fair chance to express their powers properly and so that there are no tragic disasters along the way like there was in Atlantis.

You just went full retard. And notice that I don't ask for evidence like your retarded ass. You don't care to understand anything I said, yet won't stop sharing your retarded opinions. I didn't want your damn opinions, I didn't ask for them, but here you are blogposting liek a fucktard.

>I don't disagree. I wonder if there's any evidence of this?

Define evidence. You can't have physical evidence of nonphysical phenomena. The best you can have is logical deductions, something that requires the ability of critical thinking which you severely lack, otherwise you wouldn't have been blogposting. This thread is retarded, all because of you now.

>I am not playing games with you, anon, I am being totally honest with you. I don't think your an idiot, I think you're a brilliant mind desu, we cannot be disseminating disinformation which we are all honestly guilty of doing at one point or another.

I think you are so stupid that I am ashamed to have wasted my time with you.

I literally said to stop putting words in my mouth. You completely ignore that then virtue signal some bullshit. STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH YOU FUCKTARD. STOP ATTACKING STRAWMAN ARGUEMENTS THAT I NEVER ACTUALLY MADE. STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT HOW I THINK. JUST PICK ONE THING AND ACTUALLY ASK ABOUT IT!!!

>Anon, you clearly don't understand the true light and power of philosophy. Haven't you read Manly P. Hall? EVERYTHING we are discussing is philosophy because that is the truth behind all occult knowledge and all religion. That is what Jesus taught. Philosophy.

yEs BUT WHAT IS THE RELEVENCE OF PHILOSOPHY IN CONNECTION TO FEAR. WHY DID YOUR BRAINLESS EXISTENCE DECIDE TO START TALKING ABOUT PHILOSOPHY? I DON'T ACTUALLY WANT TO KNOW BUT I AM TELLING YOU THAT YOUR BLOGPOSTING WAS A COMPLETE WASTE AND IS CONTRIBUTING TO THE FURTHER DEGRADATION OF THIS SITE. i JSUT wanted to talk about a couple things, not fucking blog post. but great. look at this fuckign shit. what the fuck

>It is the Nous. It is how we interact with the Divine. Through our mind and the Divine purpose.

THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS

Hi everybody. Don't bother reading that shit. Hi person who posted 5 giant blogposts without actually understanding a damn thing I said, yet asking for evidence for abstract ambiguous statements… Why don't you pick a single thing to talk about, or if you are skeptical or incrudelous about anything I said, pick ONE OF THOSE THINGS and ask me about it, or tell me what you think is faulty about it…

>>134092

>being brainwashed by big pharma

ISHIGGYDIGGY

>>134127

Is >>134092 more or less accurate? I know a diagnosed paranoid schizophrenic and except for "inability to trust", "love/hate feelings" and "difficulty relating to others" none of it fits. And even then it doesn't fit precisely. What's it like? How did it come to the diagnosis? I heard it's a sort of constant information overflow, and that as such seems to be tied to the subconscious, singular and collective. Did you have prescient dreams as a kid? Encounters with entities? Do you or did you have any mental faculties that one might call "supernatural" or "psychic"? The paranoid schizophrenic in my family seems to have an ability to "read minds" though not on a conscious level. He has reacted multiple times to things said, in an exact weird formulation that I myself only thought of at the moment.

Good of you to come to fringe.

>>134130

>>134131

I.E… 'inter-dimensional beings' with the ability to manipulate the 3-d reality matrix

so for instance a lot of posts that people make on /fringe/ and on other imageboards and all across the internet serve as a medium for the spirits to communicate or interact

which means if a person was not communicating in a positive way, then it would be better for them not to communicate at all….especially with a schizophrenic

the reason being that those spirits will hi-jack that negativity of whatever person is being negative and they will use it to a facilitate more spiritual harassment and more delusions upon the schizo

>>134134

That just makes it easier to expose and ignore them

>>133353

>the curse is a system of beliefs and thoughts the author held that caused a chain reaction upon an evocation that was not up to his standards

This is why limiting yourself to a single belief system is bad, mmkayyy

Better to engage in the mechanisms behind belief manifestation itself, like a true chaos magician. This is why pretending is a super power :)

>>134132

>so for instance a lot of posts that people make on /fringe/ and on other imageboards and all across the internet serve as a medium for the spirits to communicate or interact

That's actually an interesting thought. Though anything capable of learning how our computer networks work, producing 2.4 GHz RF or sending electrical charges over someone's network cabling at a precise voltage, and solving for binary from the desired packet contents and sending it while also solving incoming binary, all fast enough to keep a stable TCP/IP stream without timing out, would probably be intelligent enough to find a better food source than human negativity.

>>134171

i'd reckon that the intricacies and complexities of information technology are something that is way below the knowledge level of spiritual entities and something way basic and simple for them to understand….these are entities that have been around for perhaps hundreds or thousands of years if not, much much more

just because something is of high-esteem in the human world….that does not necessarily mean that it would be of high-esteem in the spirit world

>>134174

Spirits are not logical

>>134171

Who needs intelligence when you've enslaved an entire species of intelligent apes? Just come on down to the spiritual farm and pick your next vessel to hijack!

>>134183

>taking things seriously

oh you mundanes are so amusing

Skeptical data is to be approached with constructive criticisms; any other behavior would be due to ignorance/apathy or arrogance/denial/repression

>>134183

There comes a point when you just don't give a fuck about explaining anything here anymore. One kinda expects the others here to have at least studied and read some of the occult/fringe material. I'm not gonna go out of my way and explain everything over and over again to the pathetic trolls who don't care anyway (and I did more than enough in the past). If you are too retarded to at least read some books and learn some shit before you go out of your way and post ridiculous bullshit here then you deserve no time and energy at all from those who have some knowledge and wisdom.

Why can't those idiot christcucks and poltards at least educate themselves so that they know what others are talking about? I could do it. Other anons could do it. Those trolls they don't know anything, they didn't even read one fringe book. They don't fucking need to pretend like they care. As soon as I realize I'm talking to a mundane troll I just remove myself from the conversation and ignore them.

You are on fringe you idiots, read some books and learn about the different schools of tought here. And don't push your deranged mundane worldviews here like they 100% true and the only truth, cus they are dogshit and you are a fucking buffoon. I'm tired of it.

(this post doesn't specifically address the Pagan poster but all the idiot trolls here in general)

>>134216

If no one asked for help, then how is it help?

>>133956

>>134088

>>134089

>>134090

>>134091

>>134092

>>134093

i have yet to respond to these posts, but most assuredly you will have your response knave

>>134219

I thought it was you that was calling me schizophrenic

Funny

>>134219

And I don't want a response.

>Hi person who posted 5 giant blogposts without actually understanding a damn thing I said, yet asking for evidence for abstract ambiguous statements… Why don't you pick a single thing to talk about, or if you are skeptical or incrudelous about anything I said, pick ONE OF THOSE THINGS and ask me about it, or tell me what you think is faulty about it…

Learn to fucking read.

I will not respond to your fucking blog posting, why don't you literally go to blogger.com and make your own blog and respond over there.

I don't want to read it, and I don't think anyone else wants to read it.

If they do, it's not even esoteric anymore. You literally couldn't say a single damn esoteric thing. Everything you say and do rots with exotericism. Try looking the words up you fucking retarded mundane

>>134234

>here at /fringe/ we are supposed to care about the truth, and its investigation…

Do you know what the word esoteric means? Godamn you REEK of mundane vapidness

Anyways, what are you trying to say? People who "care about the truth, and its investigation" are able to ask productive questions and have capacity for deduction and critical thinking, traits you severely lack.

Just for once, try and say what you want to talk about? What are you looking for, the truth?

Truth about what? Truth is relative to context. The only objective truth is the objective mechanisms of reality itself

>>134234

>computer forum

btw what is that? Is English your first language?

>>134236

>"Truth is relative to context. The only objective truth is the objective mechanisms of reality itself"

…is…there anything evidence?

>>134240

>>134236

any evidence?*

>>134240

>>134241

lurk 2 more years before posting

n1c3 K0p0uT

If you want "evidence" of logic….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology

>>134092

>>134130

>>134131

>>134132

Schizophrenia is a condition that gets a bad fucking rap for a lot of things, but here's what I know:

Schizophrenia, when associated with hallucinatory images or sounds more often than not is a poor soul who has their brain basically stuck on dream mode. the hallucinations can most safely be quelled or even stopped with (locally-made if you can find it) CBD oil- it's the cannabis family's anti-hallucinogen compound, and it stops you from having dreams.

Paranoid schizophrenia is similar but a really bad fucking state to be. Almost constant panic-mode, this usually happens because of abuse. People do bad shit in a panic, imagine being freaked out all the time, it sucks ass.

>Well then, where does the occult and schizophrenia REALLY begin?

Egregores/Tulpa can turn hallucinatory events on their head, they can stop them, reroute them, or even allow the sufferer to even use them as a manifestation medium if they're creative enough. Schizos are not quite as psychologically blocked the way most humans are when it comes to magick, but everyone's different about these kinds of things.

Schizophrenics are indeed vulnerable to attack by entity, but NOT in the way a schizophrenic usually thinks: It's far easier to psych a schizo into a bad trip by using their thoughtstream and hallucinations against them. The voices and images in their head do all the work, and the asshole leeching loosh of them doesn't even have to speak a word. Usually. Sometimes they'll try to communicate to scare the shit out of them, physical manifestation for a nonphysical entity requires a shitton of energy- that's why ghosts suck the heat of out an area when they act.

because of all this, paranoid schizos are the gift that keeps on giving to evil things:

>Free loosh from human freaking himself and his family out.

>More loosh by driving him to freak out his neighbors

>get shitloads of loosh by making him shoot up his local walmart, Loosh from human panic, loosh from human death, all for the taking and gorging- that is something bigger doesn't muscle it out first to cause a (((hitpiece))),

Should a schizophrenic learn to literally look at their thoughts learn one-pointedness, and separate conscious thoughts from the dream-like delusions, they'd be on the first steps to truly liberating their mind.

>>134249

Not evidence of 'logic' (aka 'rhetoric') but evidence of the truths these anons claim.

>>134265

they*

>>134088

Before I get started on this, I just want to say thanks anon for hanging in there and participating in this conversation and thank you for caring enough to be here on /fringe/. I can't wait to read all of your responses that you wrote for me. May I communicate with love and may the powers and forces of Heaven and Earth guide my finger tips…Please don't take anything I say too harshly, I don't mean to cause you stress or pain or anything like that.

No, I'm sorry. We are here on /fringe/ talking about occult topics. We have a responsibility to the souls and the spirits. Our object is truth.

There is no egotism here as far as I can tell, save that what you paint for me in your own eyes and your own perception, desu.

Props, and good comeback to my bro here:

>>134018

>"It completely warps all meaning of the bible…"

>implying x9000

The whole super secret esoteric hidden revealed knowledge of the New Testament is that Jesus is the Son of God as evidenced by the virgin birth and many other things, such as Jesus using the nomenclature for God, My Father…

You're such a lively soul.

>"Isn't it self evident? Do you have an alternative explanation?"

We are discussing occult topics so we owe a responsibility to the souls involved, especially those cursed by our (possible) disinformation and therefore we both owe a responsibility to the truth and a responsibility to explaining out reasoning properly.

>>134265

>I conceded to the anon I was debating that there was one specific occult/fringe topic which I didn't know anything about which he was bringing up, and it had absolutely no relevance to whether or not they or I were right or wrong. I think he was just bringing it up to illustrate one of his points.

What the hell are you talking about? I said like 20 different things and all you could say was 'is there any evidence' with out any rhyme or reason to it.

>>134267

I literally don't know what you're taking about. I don't remember and I don't care about rereading my own shit or your shit. Maybe another anon will read your blogpost but not I

>>134267

>The whole super secret esoteric hidden revealed knowledge of the New Testament is that Jesus is the Son of God as evidenced by the virgin birth and many other things, such as Jesus using the nomenclature for God, My Father…

I don't get it. So is this what you believe? Where is your evidence lol. There is no physical evidence for nonphyical phenomena though as that would defeat the purpose These words are a part of my belief, but I doubt we have the same understanding.

>>134255

Anon, anon anon anon….

Listen. I feel the need to point out how you aren't actually saying anything of your own, like it seemed like you just can't let yourself ask what you really want.

There are many many reasons for this, as I assumed you lacked logic and thus lacked brains.

But then I realize that you must think differently, and in fact you must be a girl because they are better at reading between the lines but usually miss what is actually at face value…

But anyways, if you read between the lines, or actually I reverse engineered my own response with myself real quick and realized this is what I mean

My personal definition of logic is "objective mechanisms of reality itself"

IN MY OPINION, The conclusions made in the field of Epistemology can very easily correlated with (some of) the theological interpretations of of the holy trinity.

The objective mechanisms of reality can be described with transitions from unity to duality and them to the holy trinity.

From there, with an incredible over simplification and with slight misdirection, you can end up at 'cogito ergo sum' but in fact, just because I can think doesn't mean I exist. The only thing that exists is the mind of God and through his will the rest of creation is allowed to exist.

There are very precise logical mechanisms that explain how the holy trinity works. I'm not writing that shit here though, unless you can ask very specific questions then I wouldn't mind sticking to a single thing at a time

>>134255

Oh yea so the other thing I realized is that, yes the western academics reduce epistemology as a shoddy tool to rationalize their rhetoric, but in fact the mechanisms of the nature of rhetoric is still the same.

I mean, what is Logos? It's pretty much the ultimate rhetoric and how we are able to have objectivity

>>134274

That's wonderful, but why were you asking me for evidence all the time?

Don't tell me you just wanted to… you know what, save it.

>>134274

So what is your opinion on Kabbalah the tree of life? I mean the archangels of the Old Testament are canon after all

>>134274

>It is through emotion that I know God

That is devoid of logic, but an exceptional way of developing intuition

As a Man, I prioritize a sensible rhetoric before I let myself channel my emotions

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

As someone that wants to know the truth through feelings, you need to be able to filter yourself. That is through developing your own rhetoric through intellect, or for God's sake at least read scripture!!

Otherwise, knowing the truth through feelings without intellect of scripture will lead to manipulation by nefarious forces.

>>134267

>>"It completely warps all meaning of the bible…"

>>implying x9000

Well most men who read "son of God" take it completely at face value and live life with a literal understanding of some sort of family that Jesus has with daddy God and mother Mary like I literally have met people that think God fucked Mary. WHAT THE FUCK!!?!?!?!?!

The ENTIRE EASTERN CHURCH was developed when the Nestorians branched off from the West on a simple disagreement over THE MOTHER OF GOD

Meanwhile, many girls and women read 'son of God' and understand the emotional impact, but don't say anything because what the hell are you supposed to say…

>>134267

>We are discussing occult topics so we owe a responsibility to the souls involved, especially those cursed by our (possible) disinformation and therefore we both owe a responsibility to the truth and a responsibility to explaining out reasoning properly.

That is why I want to talk about things one at a time. And it's their responsibility to ask questions, but I see your point considering the context of this thread…

>>134276

Along with chakras, my knowledge of the Kabbalah and the 'Tree of life' are a bit lacking, unfortunately. I've heard people talk about it extensively, especially Manly P. Hall.

Wasn't it something the Jews brought up after Christ had died? (Like something associated with the Talmud?)

…or was it something the Essenes had brought up even before the time of Christ?

I know a lot of people talk about it. I probably sound like a noob but it seems that not all people who deal with the 'Spiritual walk' are necessarily schooled in all cultures' beliefs. Especially if we say that all religions represent the same ideas.

>>134277

Which is probably appropriate for anybody trying to give advice to anybody or teach anybody about anything.

>>134278

Why the need for scripture?

>>134280

I think that imageboards are a good placed for organized dissemination of information and such things as that, as long as there are not many shills and not much manipulation or hacking or something. However, in my experience unless you work for an I.T. company or something, the way we tackle problems and overcome questions is usually in a slow and easy-going manner.

>>134283

>Why the need for scripture?

Well you need intellect, and if you want to double check then use scripture, is what I mean.

Feelings can be deceiving, and without filtering them through intellect or scripture you can end up with, delusions to say the least. Premises that are faulty but feel oh so enchanting

I was also trying to refer to a greater point that, consulting scripture is just about the same as consulting THE intellect, so to speak; though once you form a connection it's pretty reliable. Should come back to some scripture from time to time, to be safe..

>>134282

The legitimacy of it that I know, is based on the scripture that references archangels. I wouldn't (and won't) delve into it just for fun though. I did a cursory analysis and saw that it is perfectly cohesive with, my understanding of, the holy trinity.

>>134285

Nice.

>>134284

I think the truth about God and Christendom in particular is so entirely separate from 'scripture' and 'conventional religion' that 'conventional religion' is merely a series of tests.

I'm not perfect but this is what I believe to be true since the stakes are high.

>>134287

How is one to find God and Christendom if not through the word of God?

>>133641

>Anyways, what I was wondering is how the Neoplatonists ended up talking about the same thing as the first Christians and so called Gnostics and etc…

Imagine, an entire tradition and philosophy that has nothing to do with Christiantiy or anything Abrahamic, but are using the same terms as in the bible. Nous, Logos, Christos? Just the three most perfect ideals as explained in Plato's theory of forms and expanded by the Hermetic school of thought…. I love it all, and can't limit myself to any label or flag… It's all the same to me… But if I had to pick an apt symbol….

idk, maybe it's because Monism is the most intuitive and logical conclusion one can come up with? These metaphors aren't exclusive to the West. Sufism, Vetanta, and Taoism are all intrinsically Monoist/Non-dualist, and also have metaphors for categorizing with names and forms, like "the Ten Thousand Things" in Taoism, or the classic Advaita Vedanta example of "confusing the rope for a snake," etc.

>>134290

The only places I can find the holy trinity is the New Testament, Gnosticism, and Neoplatonism.

PLEASE DO tell anywhere else that references any notion of the Trinity. After that, all I got was Zelda and the Trifoce of Courage, Wisdom, Power. Looks the same to me

However, the general theology of most all other religions and spiritual cultures tend to have some notion or mechanism that can easily be corresponded with the notion of the holy trinity.

>>134307

>New Testament, Gnosticism, and Neoplatonism.

The coolest thing is that these people literally used THE SAME TERMS of Nous, Logos, and Christos! But they considered themselves quite distinct and exclusive from one another. I find that absolutely fascinating!

It's as if these three groups of people agreed on the concepts, but disagreed on the meaning, and each of these three groups separated to spread their influence over the world, and alas these three groups are literally the cause of the results today.

We all know about Western Religion and the bible thumpers, but Western Academia sprouted from Platonism (God do I love trolling Philosophy professors by talking about Neoplatonism, they HAVE to know about it because it's their godamned job), and Western Spirituality/Magick sprouted from Gnosticism! But these three sprouted from. almost as if, the same group of people sitting at a table deciding to troll everyone, or at least each other?

>>134307

In Hinduism, you have the three principle deities Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva which correspond to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, respectively. Also, there is the similarity between Vishnu taking the form of Kalki Avatar and kill Kali, thus establishing a new Golden Age, much like how Christ defeats the Antichrist in Revelations.

In Taoism, you have the Great Triad (Heaven, Man, and Earth), which correspond to Father, Son, and Mother, respectively. In some Christian denominations, the Holy Spirit does take a feminine attribute.

> After that, all I got was Zelda and the Trifoce of Courage, Wisdom, Power. Looks the same to me

You're probably being condescending but anyway, the three pillars in the Masonic temple represent Wisdom, Strength, and Beauty. Also Leibniz, who was inducted in Rosicrucianism, had a similar concept of the divine Trinity with Wisdom, Power, and Goodness. Goodness being synonymous with Beauty, if taken Platonic sense.

>>134314

And I forgot to add this. I figured you would enjoy this since you love Zelda so much, but unfortunately, Guenon never got around to explaining the symbolism of the three upright triangles.

http://www.studiesincomparativereligion.com/Public/articles/The_Mountain_and_the_Cave-by_Rene_Guenon.aspx

>>134314

>In Taoism, you have the Great Triad (Heaven, Man, and Earth), which correspond to Father, Son, and Mother, respectively. In some Christian denominations, the Holy Spirit does take a feminine attribute.

TAO is pure wisdom and intuition, it is limited by the intellect. Or at least that's how their narrative goes?

It's not that intuition and wisdom is feminine, but femininity (and perhaps other things) is intuitive and comes from the holy spirit. aka Tao aka 'The way' or Flow

And I'm actually not being condescending… I realized a lot of Japanese games take a lot of inspiration from the Judeo-Christianity concepts, along side all the epic Eastern philosophies

I personally interpret it as Logic Wisdom and Balance, which I would correspond with Power Wisdom and Courage… Also I glossed over the fact that Demiurge and Christos can almost be used interchangeably but the Demiruge is more of the 'stage' and Christos is more of the 'play'

I'm gonna need a moment or two to really take in all of what you just said. I very much appreciate this response

>>134318

And if we are to take the Kokiri Forest from OoT as representative of Eden, you may find this interesting, though this is a coincidence since the Kokiri are based on Shintoism and fairy folk lore.

https://gospelofsophia.com/2019/02/17/legends-of-lucifers-stone/

>>134329

Maybe the Garden of Eden was influenced by Shintoism and fairy folk lore? Really makes you think

>>134329

Wait where the hell did Shintoism come from?

>>134334

>>134333

I merely brought up Shintoism and fairy tales as inspirational sources for the setting of OoT.

>>134335

Yea yea but I was reminded how Abrahamic Theology is essentially the same as… I mean Judaism developed over the course of many centuries, millennia even. It came from the ancient Canaanite religion, and was influenced by other religions like Zoroastrianism, which all came about along side Hinduism and Buddhism, which is what Shintoism may be based on but Japanese history is not my strength…

The worst one, of all time, ever, is the "there are no limits to magick".

And I've fallen for this one for a few years, it'll make you waste a ton of your time, trying to compile information, or meditate for hours on your intentions or try to find some super powerful spell online.

I've experienced paranormal things, did magick, and the ceiling of what you can accomplish with magick is really not that high.

Yes you can get out of a bad spot in life with intelligent use of it, but it won't fix the unfixable things that you might have in your life.

Magick is just a good buff for the effectiveness of your daily routines.

And I dont think there's anyone on this board that can succesfully astral project when they want to, or they would be extremely rich and succesful with the information they could receive in the astral.

>>134341

So everyone has limits because you do?

>>134341

Lucid dreaming is a thing that people do all the time…

>>134314

>In Hinduism, you have the three principle deities Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva which correspond to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, respectively

Okay I can at least also comment on this; since I know Brahman is the central source of all the other deities in Hinduism then yeah it's considered to be monotheistic…

The thing is though, the way the holy trinity is described to be unified in some way. Personally it's going to take a lot of work in deduction to make the exact comparisons with how the other so called triads that are mentioned are also monotheistic in the same way…

Surely they are all different flavors of the same thing, but I think the way the trinity is represented is actually somehow different and is itself the different flavors, as opposed to the trinity also being the exact same for all the different flavors…

Really gonna take me a while to take this in though… Like weeks or months!

>>134314

>Also, there is the similarity between Vishnu taking the form of Kalki Avatar and kill Kali, thus establishing a new Golden Age, much like how Christ defeats the Antichrist in Revelations.

This is so cool!

>>134372

>Really gonna take me a while to take this in though… Like weeks or months!

Or you can read this. It's mostly about Toaism, but it also discusses various trinities and alchemy. Guenon makes a point right away in the first chapter that not all trinities have the same import. For example, the Tao created yin and yang (Earth and Heaven), and Man acts as mediator between the two, which is different from that of Christianity and Neoplatonism.

>>134354

Astral projection is not lucid dreaming

>>134375

>Read and obey

I'd rather think for myself. No amount of reading will hold my hand to connect the premises to reach the conclusions.

lrn2think critically

>>134378

Yeah, it's better. Much more effective

>>134391

more effective at what?

>>134412

Processing stuff, figuring things out, having sort of test experiences without less consequences allowing safer learning, etc

>>134341

>or they would be extremely rich and succesful with the information they could receive in the astral.

How can you speak about what can happen from access to the astral if you've never been able to do it? What exactly are you looking for anyways?

>>134412

Thought experiments

>>134307

>>134314

>>134375

>>134372

Before we get carried away, remember that there are also concepts of UNHOLY trinities that are in the shadow of the holy trinity, so to speak.

This is what Montalk says

>These three false alternatives are not random errors, but reflections of the physical, etheric, and astral components of the debased Demiurgic system:

Yaldabaoth, Sorat, ????

>The physical component is expressed through materialism, atheism, hedonism, transhumanism, socialism, and nihilism. This matter-centric force is at the root of the Demiurge’s corruption. It ultimately leads to disintegration, entropy, and spiritual death because those are the properties of matter. Its personification was named Yaldabaoth by some Gnostics, meaning “Child of the Void.” Rudolf Steiner called it Sorat and termed its demonic agents the Asuras. Their momentum is to extinguish consciousness, freewill, and spirit, and replace it with pure machine-like materialism. The impending alien deception, with its goal of genetic and cybernetic assimilation of the human race, represents this impulse.

Ahriman, Yahweh, ????

>The etheric component is expressed through organized religion, ritualism, intellectualism, satanism, conservatism, bureaucracy, corporatism, racism, ecclesiasticism, and theocracy. This follows from etheric energy’s affinity for patterning and repetition. This component is associated with intellectual abstractions, formulas, preoccupation with laws, blind obedience within hierarchies, self-preservation, preservation of the past, plant-like expansionism, maintaining the status quo to the point of atrophy, and exploitation and discrimination against foreign patterns. The Gnostics called this force Samael, “God of the Blind”; Steiner termed it Ahriman. Yahweh of the Old Testament belongs to this category.

Sakla, Lucifer, ????

>The astral component is expressed in New Age Mysticism, Nazi occultism, black magic and voodoo, anarchism, Luciferianism, Christian Revivalism, and entheogenic escapism. This follows from the astral flitting about in delusional reveries when not held in check by Spirit. What these expressions have in common is that they seek to rebel against current conditions and escape enthusiastically into another, being lead astray in the process. It is the force of transcendence without restraint, like a rocket without a guidance system, bound for false destinations in the land of fools. For instance, this may entail escaping the dead world of matter or the restrictive world of ether, and getting lost in some metaphysical rapture. Or it may entail the opposite, falling from the divine realms into the world of matter out of misguided desires for physical existence. Gnostics called this force Sakla, the fool; Steiner called it Lucifer, in this case the bearer of false light.

With claims like these, gotta take everything with a grain of salt to say the least

>>134391

>I'd rather think for myself. No amount of reading will hold my hand to connect the premises to reach the conclusions.

That's a piss poor excuse to read a book, if I ever heard one. You are worse than cuckservatives who refuse to read Das Kapital because they are afraid they might turn into a Marxist. If you are that weak in intellect and identity that your ideology might change just from reading a book, well studying occult and esoterism is wasted on you, and you are better off sticking to playing your vidya like a good goy consumer.

>>134422

I'm here to talk to people, not offer book recommendations and fuck off.

If you know what you're talking about then talk, other wise off you go

>>134423

I was here to talk, until you started being a disrespectful and condescending little shit.

>>134424

Speak for yourself. I was talking until you dropped a book and said nothing for yourself. And now your making the lowest quality responses, might as well be a spam bot

>>134425

If you get triggered in reading books so much, you might as well live in the woods and fuck off.

>>134427

You are the one triggered here. Stop derailing the thread

>>134428

Where do you think I got all of this information on ternary symbolism from, by pulling it all out of my ass? No, I read books.

>>134435

Have you ever made a conclusion from premises? Do you know how to think for yourself or just regurgitate shit that you've read?

>>134436

I engage with the ideas therein and form my own conclusions, however. Spending too much time thinking by yourself and with yourself and only leads to inbred ideas due to your own biases. Kind of like what you are doing by trying to syncretize all trinities into one meaning, which is reductionism.

>>134439

>Kind of like what you are doing by trying to syncretize all trinities into one meaning, which is reductionism.

Syncretize? You mean reduce, in this context? Stop using big words you don't understand.

And I'm literally doing the opposite of those. Did you not see the giant block of text I pasted from Montalk about unholy trinities?

Or is that precisely what you are trying to derail? The truth of that level usually gets forces really mad. And most are at their mercy. SAD

>>134439

>I engage with the ideas therein and form my own conclusions, however.

Then do that. Share them here if you want, but for fuck's sake don't tell people to read shit especially without engaging in any real dialogue.

>>134444

Okay, but are you really going to deny everything I said before just because I read it from somewhere else, despite the fact that you were eating that shit up earlier?

>>134450

No one has been denying anything, all I said that I didn't want to read any books right now. What you want me to read an entire book and come back and post? What the fuck is wrong with you?

You've been arguing without understanding for like 10 posts now, get a fucking hold of yourself

UNRELATED TO ABOVE POSTS

"How to spot a conspiracy theory."

https://www.bbc.com/ideas/videos/how-to-spot-a-conspiracy-theory/p07j9sjk

>>133307

)interesting digits(

the biggest disinfo thing i see spread around is that some sort of ancient desert cult that is supposed to be literally thousands of years old is somehow controlling all the governments of western nations.

>>134092

I've known people with schizophrenia and that image does not describe them at all.

>>134609

The traits above do present themselves in schizophrenics, but the interpretation in the drawing is superficial and dumb.

>>133386

Can you explain number 6 further. Is the english translation where most of it gets lost or is the translation not the problem, but rather the interpretation?

>>133594

You would probably enjoy reading The Mysteries: Papers from the Eranos Yearbooks. They are the trasncripts of lectures given at the so-called Eranos meetings in Switzerland in 1933 or so. I think the meetings may still be held. In this particular volume there are a few essays on various ancient Greek mystery rites, and how some aspects of these were sort of copied into Christianity. But I highly paraphrase and the book is much more than this as well. There is a particularly thought provoking essay from Jung in here as well on the Eucharist and kind of relating it to older Greek rites etc. I don't know how to find it electronically, I found a used copy at a junk store lol.

Some things are worth having hard copies of as well, imo.

>>133307

>misinformation

>>132053 perfect example