No.329 [View All]
ITT classic movies that you didn't understand the hype for. Pic related, my ones (Les 400 Coups, Battleship Potemkin and The African Queen), also a lot of Hitchcocks films. Can anyone explain what makes these more than just pretty good? And what classics did you lot not really get?
59 posts and 15 image replies omitted. Click [Open thread] to view. ____________________________
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No.5085
>>334
>>3502
You guys can't deny that this movie was visually ahead of it's time. It's also praised so much because of the "rosebud" aspect. Citizen Kane is a perfect example of a modernized Greek Tragedy, the rise and fall of a god while also vindicating him at the end. Did he ask for all the wealth in the world? No. Deep down, underneath the hard exterior of this media tycoon was a little kid longing for a childhood that he never had. This theme is one of the most constant of all stories regarding wealth which is money doesn't equal happiness.
We've heard this cliche over and over again but people back in the day weren't numbed by media 24/7 like we are today.
I bet this movie changed more lives then any other movie of all time. It deserves it's praise even if you don't think so.
Just because something's popular doesn't always mean it's shit.
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No.5086
>>5085
I think people who disregard CK are either trying to be hipsters or don't understand how important this movie is, which shows that you know nothing about cinema.
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No.5089
I feel like Citizen Kane is something you watch very early in your exploration of classics. So you might not appreciate it as much as if you revisit it years later. I've seen it once and barely remember it.
There's also this >>5012 in the back of your mind. "Okay, I'm strapped in to experience of one of the best films ever made. Let the nonstop greatness begin." And no film can really live up to that.
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No.5093
can the people who don't like Citizen Kane expand a bit? saying it was "dull" or boring is just an awful criticism. different strokes I guess, but that just makes me think that you really haven't developed a "true" appreciation for cinema, not to sound like a snobby asshole, but it is what it is
Citizen Kane really is one of the most remarkable films I've seen, especially when you put it into context of what came before it (and after) and the amazing craft that must have gone into its creation. the editing, sound, cinematography, all of it is just amazing to me, especially considering the time it was made. all those "best films" lists tend to be silly imo (vertigo number one?), but Citizen Kane really is, to me, one of the greatest films of all time (maybe not best, but greatest, and I do think there's a distinction)
I'll also add that the first time I saw it, I was quite high on DXM and the way the movie is shot melded perfectly with that state of consciousness
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No.5198
>but influence!
>but for the time!
Jesus Christ. I like Citizen Kane even but it never fails to get under my skin when people try to appeal to context instead of the actual merits of what's on screen.
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No.5202
>>5198
there's nothing wrong with appreciating the context and craft of a work as well as its content. it's all a part of it. not to mention Citizen Kane's content has held up incredibly well, still one of the most creatively shot films ever imo and also still very thematically poignant and extremely relevant to what's currently going on in the world (and what has always gone on in the world)
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No.5212
For me it's Anatomy of a Murder. I liked the Saul Bass titles (pic related) but I thought the movie was on par with a TV courtroom drama. Pretty average stuff. Stewart was supposed to be an edgy character but I didn't buy it.
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No.5213
>>329>>5093>>3502>>5085>>334>>331
Hmm, something in me wants to differentiate OP's use of the word 'hype' into 'what people appreciate' and 'what impact it had on film history'.
With this distinction, I can say from the bottom of my heart, that I'll never try to tell myself or anyone else, that films like citizen kane or potemkin are 'fun', 'entertaining' or even that 'thought provoking'.. But having read and watched a great deal of film history/theory (*tips fedora*), I get what importance the new stylistic features they put into use, and for that they can be greatly appreciated. It's kind of exciting when you realize, that this director was the first to do this, and then thousands of directors and tens of thousands of films copied it.
I loved 400 blows, because I identified with the main character, I thought the acting was good, and I liked the lack of any goal orientation and thus the vacuous pace of the film, which emphasized the films existential theme and feel.
To me, it's a matter of personal taste and feelings versus intellectual appreciation. Obivously, for every one of the great films that were canonized, there are many others just as good or better that fewer people know of - the ones we try to talk about on this board in general.
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No.5214
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No.5253
Who likes this one?
I had minimal connection to either actor. Peck seems too stuffy for a romantic fling. Can a /film/ette explain the wide appeal of Audrey Hepburn to women?
I dare to say that it needed to be shot in colour (black and white is better for New York than Rome).
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No.5255
>>847
What's your top 10 Bergman, then?
Not even challenging you. I agree. Just interested in your opinion, since I really like Bergman.
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No.5256
>>3500
I got this on Criterion because I liked Knife in the Water so much. Learned the hard way to become more familiar with a film before I go and spring on a DVD/Bluray.
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No.5257
>>5253
I love this movie. Overall, I think it may be that I'm a fan of Stanley Donen, especially when he teams up with Hepburn.
I can see what you mean with Peck. He is a bit stiff sometimes. It sees like the way his character was written, he could have benefited from being a little more smarmy. But it wasn't a major detriment for me.
I'm not sure what you mean by Hepburn. I don't think she appeals only to women. In fact, the only specific praise I hear about her from girls is her fashion, and that's only every once in a while. She has just as large a men/cinephile fanbase as she does a woman fanbase.
I think she's a genuinely good actress with a very specific style. Certain roles are perfect for her, specifically this one and Charade. She's has a mixture of "girl next door" because of her naive and innocent sounding delivery and elfish features, but she also has a sense of "above-you-elegance". Again, this works really well for her characters Roman Holiday and in Charade. I think the part she was least suited for was Eliza Doolittle. She's too pretty and charming to play that ugly duckling role in the beginning. But she does a good job, anyway. I like her a lot so I still thoroughly enjoy My Fair Lady.
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No.5259
This is the only Marx film I've seen. I definitely still want to see what their other work has to offer, particularly A Night at the Opera.
But as for this, I hated like 95% of it. The only parts I enjoyed were the musical number in the courtroom and the famous mirror gag. Everything else either irritated or confused me.
I didn't understand the appeal of Harpo or Chico, as they seemed more like annoying menaces than endearing clowns. Groucho, too, was simply a nuisance and didn't impress me. I suppose it's not my kind of humor. Maybe it would be if they took more time to get me on the side of the characters.
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No.5263
>>5259
duck soup is GOAT, and this is coming from someone who finds the silly goofy three stooges like comedy awful and stupid. I throughout fully enjoyed that marx movie.
yesterday i saw night at the opera and was way worse than dock soup imo.
groucho is the best of them with his highly ironic and double intended wordplay, chicho is the middle ground of them going all over the spectrum. the anthem scenes were hilarious
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No.5265
>>5263
By the Anthem scenes, do you mean when Rufus T. Firefly makes his introduction and doesn't know the song is for him?
I enjoyed that scene and was hoping the movie would get funnier from there on out. It didn't aside from the Mirror Scene I mentioned.
Groucho's one-liners go by too fast, most of the time, for me to hear. A lot of people like this, but I just find it irritating. Even when I catch the line, it's more just like "Oh, that's clever" instead of genuinely funny.
I'm willing to concede that this is just my unpopular opinion though. I'm not trying to hate it, I just didn't like it. A lot of people try to assert that they are more right in their opinion on a popular movie. I get that most people disagree with me. I just don't personally go for those characters.
I wouldn't say that about Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, though.
I just watched that an hour ago for the first time and hated it. I'd watch Duck Soup twice in a row before I watch Mr. Smith again. That's a movie where I seriously don't understand why it's well regarded. You'd have to be crazy to enjoy that one.
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No.6240
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>331
>Modern times
Really? Why?
I don't like The Kid which rates very high. It starts well but eventually the humor is replaced by saccharine melodrama. The dream sequence was cool but had nothing to do with the rest of the movie and only made it more disjointed.
(I embedded a good scene from the beginning)
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No.6241
Most of them. They just seem to ride the waves of their time and hype they got back then.
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No.7100
File: 1460907815114.jpg (131.01 KB,1024x575,1024:575,whos-afraid-of-virginia-wo….jpg)
I usually dislike plays adapted into films. The scenes are cramped and anchored to one or two locations, as if the outside world doesn't really exist. The movie stars are self-aware that they are performing théâtre so they overact.
I don't remember much of this "classic" aside from the tedium and length. If you want to listen to two strangers bicker for 3 hours, they made a film for you.
>>6241
>They just seem to ride the waves of their time and hype they got back then.
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No.7119
>>7100
>The scenes are cramped and anchored to one or two locations, as if the outside world doesn't really exist.
I actually love that. The outside world doesn't matter, so it doesn't exist. The less elements you have the better, those that are there get polished. Also really liked The Rope due to this.
>The movie stars are self-aware that they are performing théâtre so they overact.
I wouldn't say that they were overacting in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, Taylor and Burton's performances were on point for their characters. Couldn't really care for the other couple since they were more like straight men. For me overacting is more like the way actors behaved in silent movies, where they had grimace HARD to get their emotions across, like say the lead actor in Metropolis constantly does. Or as a non-silent example, how people did in All Quiet on Western Front.
I do understand though that Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf isn't for everyone. Not because it's too deep or anything, but for sheer amount of bile the characters spew at each other. It was hard to watch for me because of that.
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No.7129
>>341
Maltese Falcon realist cinema?
That's not even an accurate description in the first place, so how can you base your judgement on that?
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No.7130
>>5257
I completely agree. I'm a big Hepburn fan myself.
Although, Roman Holiday was a William Wyler movie and not a Donen movie. Although it does feel a bit like Donen. If you've not seen Two For the Road, I recommend it.
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No.7131
>>5265
Duck Soup, to me, is a piece of Garbage except the musical number and the mirror gag like you mentioned.
I, too, hated Harpo and Chico for fucking up that dude's lemonade stand for no good reason.
Don't need to watch Night at the Opera, it was pretty much worse. Not as grating, just more boring and with no specific scenes to save it for me.
Mr. Smith also blows. We seem to have very similar tastes.
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No.7576
so what's the deal with Casablanca? I watched this again last night and it's really very unremarkable. not awful by any means, but it's just another bogart movie. is there some 'official' reason why this is revered so much?
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No.7577
>>5212
A lot of what Preminger did was focusing more on social trailblazing than telling a good story. It's a shame that one of his bigger films has been suppressed practically since it came out, though.
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No.7578
Casablanca I need to watch again. I didn't think much of it either, but I had no frame of reference when I saw it. Since then I've seen many movies from the 1940s.
I know it has a strong cast that includes Peter Lorre, Claude Rains, Conrad Veidt, and Sydney Greenstreet. This dialogue about gambling is excellent. But I remember the plot was pretty flat. Plot is a main reason to watch a movie for the average person, so I think a classic should be engaging on that level (among others).
Compare Casablanca to The Third Man. Two similar types of movies about WWII, but you rarely see people question the quality of The Third Man.
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No.7581
>>7578
yeah, it's certainly better than a lot of the shit hollywood was making at the time, certainly enjoyable, but there are so many claims of "the greatest classic hollywood film" floating around that I don't get. other films that have similar hype like Vertigo I can understand to an extent even if I don't think they're that spectacular, but Casablanca is pretty average in everything. I don't really think the dialogue is anything special, pick any noir out of a hat and you're gonna get some good snarky dialogue
maybe it's just leftover hype from a big 1940s ad campaign/critic bribe
it's just so disappointing when a "greatest film of all time" is just another movie
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No.9385
Does anyone like either of these? Both films were critical and commercial successes. Both continue to be respected. I only see positive reviews. So I feel like the only person who was bored with them.
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No.10163
From Here to Eternity
I wouldn't say it's bad, it's just a little underwhelming to be considered one of the best 1950s films.
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No.10164
>>7577
>one of his bigger films has been suppressed practically since it came out, though.
really? why is that?
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No.10165
>also a lot of Hitchcocks films.
Early Hitchcock and more obscure Hitchcock had developed some pretty good techniques, if it weren't for dog shit like "Birds." "Psycho." "North BY Northwest." and practically every single popular film made by him, he's be one of the highest ranking film makers ever.
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No.12828
>>736
>Overall, I find Classic Hollywood to be packed with overrated pictures.
>>756
>it's because of the US-centric world we live in and that that sort of wide appeal cheesiness makes people like them
Decent point. During most of the 20th century there was minimal access to world cinema in the US. It was hard enough to see the "classics" before VCRs. People only watched Hollywood films so they only liked Hollywood films. In that cloistered environment, with no outside competition, the reputation for old Hollywood films grew to legendary status. As the US became a global superpower, their cultural preferences were pushed onto the rest of the world.
On this board our film perspective covers all decades and all countries, so the Hollywood classics are less compelling. But, the 20th century mindset persists with many people who still love the old films. They might think differently if they explored the totality of world cinema.
Anyway, I'll add The Philadelphia Story as a highly-praised mediocrity. It's featured on many AFI best-of lists, it was nominated for 6 Oscars (winning two), and it's the only film where Jimbo Stewart meets Cary Grant. I think it's dull and talky. I have yet to see a Katherine Hepburn movie that I'd recommend watching.
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No.12829
>>329
The majority of classics you are underwhelmed by are because their influence was so great that you've already seen some of the movies influenced by them and so the originality at that time has been copied to death.
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No.13025
I think the biggest reason The African Queen is so highly regarded is because Bogart and K Hepburn are considered by many to be the greatest actor and actress of the golden era, and I believe it's the only movie with both of them in it.
As for the thread topic, I found Sunset Boulevard shallow and misguided. I didn't like the plot or the cinematography and I thought the acting was poor.
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No.13026
All Quiet on the Western Front
The battle scenes were good but everything else (especially the acting) sucked in comparison to the book. I get the impression people praised it more for its context than the actual movie.
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No.13036
>>13025
>>13026
I enjoyed both of those, although I don't have a fresh memory of the film Sunset Blvd or the book All Quiet on the Western Front
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No.13469
Battleship Potemkin for the montage/technical feats and the modern "intelligencia" is comprised of pretentious communists, the African Queen was a fun simple journey and I think the first movie to have caricatured contrast of the protagonists which is now a story-telling staple for better and worse. The 400 Blows hits the perfect spot between nostalgia, romance and objectivity about alienation and wonder youth, my complaint with it is that the pacing and length of parts is unbalanced.
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No.13470
>>10164
https://www.indiewire.com/2014/05/why-you-still-cant-see-that-porgy-and-bess-movie-starring-sidney-poitier-and-dorothy-dandridge-235667/
Sez here it's hard to find this film because of rights issues involving Gershwin estateS and MGM.
However, Porgy and Bess was selected for preservation by the National Film Registry in 2011. You'd think that entails an obligation to make it easier for the public actually watch it?
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No.13472
>>13036
I posted that image and I forgot what it was until now
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No.13473
>>329
For me it's Some Like it Hot. I mean it's okay but it's not that funny. Certainly not hilarious.
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No.13536
Sort of related...
Here's a list of top rated films made before 1939 with under 5000 votes
https://www.imdb.com/search/title?title_type=feature&release_date=,1939-12-31&num_votes=100,5000&sort=user_rating,desc
What's strange is that so many of the top 10-15 are Marion Davies films. Currently it's 6/10 and 9/15.
I don't think these films are anything special, so Marion Davies must have an obsessive group of fans who are inflating the ranking of her films.
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No.14203
>>7578
no no no. Casablanca is the shit.
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No.14204
>>13025
I had to stop watching the African Queen. It was destroying my image of Bogart as suave, Mr. Cool.
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No.14205
>>14204
It's certainly not his proudest moment.
I was annoyed that Jack Cardiff shot The African Queen because there's almost nothing for him to do. Everything is rear-projection or second-unit footage.
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No.14207
>>14204
Funnily enough, this might've convinced me to watch it. Sounds hilarious, and I like the guy.
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No.14224
After watching Star Wars episode IV I was feeling like: "Is that all?" I had expected far more from the famous series... Episodes V and VI were more enjoyable (I didn't have too much of a problem with the Ewoks) but I don't count them among my favorite movies.
I didn't like The African Queen that much, either. Really bland and boring.
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No.14231
>>14204
>destroying my image of Bogart as suave, Mr. Cool
Sure thats Boagart's biggest draw, but he could act differently too. Treasure of the Sierra Madre has him play a complete schizo.
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No.14232
>>14224
>Star Wars episode IV
I don't think I've even watched all of it. Maybe I saw the final (?) flight on TV once. Empire Strikes Back was the first I saw. Return of the Jedi was the last I saw.
I'm sure the enormous Star Wars hype affects your enjoyment.
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No.14234
And I fucking love Bresson. He's the greatest of all time for me. I have the deepest admiration for every single frame and sound he put on a screen.
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No.14656
What's the most you've been disappointed by an old movie, /film/?
For me it has to be C'etait un rendezvous by Claude Lelouch.
I'd heard of it in the past, and read Jeremy Clarkson's opinion on it, and assumed it would be the craziest shit I'd ever see in terms of driving. So I watched it, and I get that it's significant, but it is massively overrated, mostly due to its age and the fact it was unscripted. Also there's a couple parts where he's clearly slowing down/cruising, yet the sound implies he's getting faster. That made the dub far more obvious and ruined the immersion on the whole. The fact that Lelouch has lied many times about the film should have discredited it long ago.
>Claims to have got up to 230 km/h during filming
>Researchers calculate he couldn't have gone any faster than 140 at the beginning; rest fluctuated around 100
>Claims the car was driven by an F1 racer
>Turns out it was himself all along
And forget about the car itself being a Merc, there is no evidence to suggest Lelouch even owned a 275 GTB to begin with. There is not a single photo of him next to the car, and some have even put forth the theory the sounds were ripped from the 1971 film Le Mans, though I've heard it and to me there's a definite difference between the V12 of the 330 and the V12 of the 275.
If you want unscripted high-speed car driving with real risk of accidents, watch some later footage of Japanese street racers on the Wangan, or touge drifting. Or hell, just watch some Group B onboard videos of 1980s rally
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