No.57534
Obviously the mere existence of crypto currency is not enough to compel people to start using it en masse. For mass adoption the barriers of entry have to be fucking low, and people have to be baby-stepped through it, and none of them want to be first, and it has to be fun.
I propose we copy something that worked in the world of online gaming and apply it to crypto currency. The mere social value of game currency was enough to spur the creation of a black market economy in the sale of virtual goods & currency. We can replicate this with crypto.
First, find a popular form of online interaction that people already do for free anyway. Like file sharing. Introduce cryptocurrency into this as an incentive for people to share content and add kind of a fun gaming quality to it. The currency should be relatively worthless outside of the community. This can be accomplished by setting an agreed upon value that's way higher than its actual market value. Maybe 0.01 CRYPTO = $1.00. The user base agrees to accept it at this value. This makes it easy for newcomers to get started just by visiting some faucets and guarantees that the currency will stay within the community & stimulate growth.
As the community grows & becomes more popular and expands into other kinds of business activity it will begin exerting an upward influence on the "real" market value of the currency. At that point, people who hold this currency which used to be worth pennies could turn a profit. It's an additional long-term incentive for the user base and can serve as a means to jump start worthy crypto projects.
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No.57537
>>57534
As a cryptoanarchist I share your goal, but the current fragmention of cryptocurrency appears to be a bigger threat to its long term existance than its current disuse. I don't beleive that /cyber/ is a big enough community to sustain any cryptocurrency, much less free posts, and its even more doubtful that crypto associated with /cyber/ could set the global standard.
I do think giving reasons to people to hold BTC is desirable. I think the best odds of doing that are encouraging people to use DarkNet markets. I would like to see DarkNet Markets expand to become the choice vendor for goods of all kinds. Preferably this would be done on a p2p decentrailized platform like openbazzar so that anyone could sell anything without threat of violence. If these services would dominate, the crypto would expand proportionally.
Alternatively, file sharing, web hosting, VPS, VPN, etc are all opportunities to do as you say and use tokens. Perhaps a etherium based token for file sharing would be nice - alternatively, it exists as LBRY but is largely unsuccessful.
Buy Electronics from New Egg in BTC. Pay your Phone bill to ATT in BTC. Pay your VPN in BTC.
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No.57538
>>57537
It's still a new technology. Standards will emerge. Blockchains will become more interoperable and fragmentation will become less of an issue. However I am thinking outside of just /cyber/. I'm floating this idea across multiple boards & subreddits relating to crypto & piracy. I'm interested in building an informal network that makes use of whichever platforms are convenient but which doesn't explicitly rely on any of them. No single point of failure.
A loose knit network connected by email & encrypted chat has the flexibility to avail itself of whichever darknets or p2p platforms that it wants.
But my crypto of choice for this would be NANO. It's suitable for the idea of adopting a currency at a much higher value than it's currently worth since it doesn't use transaction fees. You could define 0.00001 NANO as $1.00 USD without also having to tack on a 0.001 transaction fee which undermines the whole point.
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No.57540
>>57538
Well, interestingly enough when I looked up nano, I found an article on how there are nano rewards for playing CSGO and Quake (given by the group making nano?)
https://medium.com/nanocurrency/nano-digest-earn-nano-counter-strike-go-nano-nanoquake-atomic-wallet-ama-summary-9326ec7e5cb0
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No.57542
>>57537
>I would like to see DarkNet Markets expand to become the choice vendor for goods of all kinds
That would require a truly anonymous, trustworthy and easy to set up and use service.
I don't see it happening anytime soon.
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No.57544
Would you two like to get in contact outside this board? Still anonymously of course. We could use geurilla mail or some kind of anonymous chat.
>>57542
We could get there incrementally without having to wait for something like that. Just build a free floating network of individuals connected via email & chat. Once it grows large enough & has enough economic activity it'll attract the sort of technical talent for developing a more streamlined service if that's what we want. We need to think in terms of individuals instead of platforms. It's way more flexible and way cheaper to build.
>>57540
This one here: https://www.earncrypto.com/ lets you earn by doing surveys & watching videos.
There's also another feeless crypto still under development called Tangram
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tangrams/ that's designed for anonymity. An informal network could quickly adopt new innovations like these as they become available.
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No.57545
>>57542
>That would require a truly anonymous, trustworthy and easy to set up and use service.
These Services already exist. Reviewed Darknet markets, and now Reviewed Darknet Markets with Multiparty signatures. Studies have shown that these reviews have tended to increase the quality and purity of drugs as sellers have competed. I would love to be able to purchase toilet paper on DNMs. Exit scamming is admittedly a thing but Multiparty signatures can prevent this.
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No.57546
>>57545
But it's not as easy as going to amazon, and it'll have to be that easy if it is to "become the choice vendor for goods of all kinds".
Well, i gotta admit i interpreted that as being for everybody even normalfags and perhaps that wasn't the idea.
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No.57547
>>57546
It IS the idea to eventually get normies to migrate over to these anonymous platforms. A large customer base of normies would have a circular effect of attracting more merchants who offer a wider array of products, more developers to create a more user friendly experience, etc. However this also creates a chicken-and-egg problem. A large influx of normies isn't going to happen until all this is already in place. And the incentive to put this infrastructure in place won't be there without a guaranteed influx of normies.
My position is that we can build the necessary user base ourselves and ease them over to these platforms. The idea that I'm proposing of a file-sharing network that uses minuscule amounts of NANO is intended, among other things, to be a teaching tool for normies.
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No.57551
>>57546
>being for everybody even normalfags
Thats the idea. A few people on the internet is easy to marginalize, make illegal, or otherwise crush. We need culture change and the masses on board. The best way to do that is to show them what real benefit it will have for them: High Quality Markets that sell anything they want to buy, where they can sell without government taxes or interference.
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No.57554
>>57547
What do you think of existing prior art like LBRY for file sharing?
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No.57555
>>57554
I'm looking into it right now just to get a quick first impression
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No.57570
>>57554
It could be an ideal platform for funding our favorite content creators. A lot of frustrated youtubers & people who used to be on youtube until they were derezzed have migrated over to lbry.tv
But as far as using it for piracy, not so much. It is difficult but not impossible, to take content down. That, and they can refuse to process payments if you're attempting to sell your pirated content in exchange for LBRY. One reviewer also complained about difficulties in withdrawing their LBRY balance. They kept getting transaction errors almost every time they tried. It's still a young platform with some bugs to work out.
But that's fine. I'm proposing an informal network that uses whichever platform suits our purposes. What we can't do on one platform we can do on another.
Aaaand speaking of informal networks, anyone here interested in exchanging emails or retroshare certificates?
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No.57586
>>57570
What does your informal network plan to exchange for coins? What kind of coins?
What if fullchan embraced hidden service, and started offering content people want, but then charging cheap/free cryptotokens to post? perhaps this could facilitate the exchange of crypto.
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No.57590
>>57586
>What does your informal network plan to exchange for coins?
Since it would have to start with something I propose the buying & selling of pirated content as the founding purpose of the network. The idea is for this to attract other kinds of activity to the network such as original content creators for example.
>What kind of coins?
Any feeless crypto would do. NANO is the only one I've really looked into at all. Unless there's some compelling reason to choose something other than NANO, I say we just go with that one. We can always incorporate other cryptos later, and people can work out their own private arrangements.
>What if fullchan embraced hidden service, and started offering content people want, but then charging cheap/free cryptotokens to post? perhaps this could facilitate the exchange of crypto.
Sure. If. But I'm thinking outside the scope of any particular platform. I'm thinking ground-up, not top down.
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No.57591
>>57590
>I propose the buying & selling of pirated content as the founding purpose of the network.
While this whole thread is a LARP, this makes the most sense.
You need a draw. The draw of piracy was always ease of access though, not a monetary one. Making people jump through hoops to purchase some obscure cryptocurrency, and teaching them how to use it, is infinitely more complex than normal piracy, and normal piracy has already lost to Netflix et al. for the masses.
Try drugs or some other illegal shit where there's still a legal/or convenience-based barrier to entry that hampers mass adoption. That's your best bet at getting any traction.
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No.57595
>>57591
>The draw of piracy was always ease of access though, not a monetary one.
Pirate cable is a thing. On blackhatworld.com you can buy it for crypto. Darknet markets sell cracked accounts for porn sites. I'm sure there are more examples. I'd be more surprised if there weren't.
>Making people jump through hoops to purchase some obscure cryptocurrency, and teaching them how to use it, is infinitely more complex than normal piracy
I wouldn't say infinitely. I'm talking about obtaining minuscule amounts of it from faucets and accepting it at a value much higher than its market worth. That way people are only paying pennies for content they would normally be paying tens of dollars for. Part of the intended draw I have in mind is a more gamified experience for both parties. If the currency is a necessary part of participation like it is for MMORPGs, it'll motivate people to get their hands on it despite the learning curve.
>and normal piracy has already lost to Netflix et al. for the masses
Movies and music are saturated mediums in terms of their availability either for free or else for very cheap. ie: you can download from Youtube pretty much every song that was ever created since the beginning of recorded audio. But there are still other mediums that are severely untapped such as print media. You can download free PDFs of older books, or extremely popular books, but that doesn't begin to scratch the surface of what's possible.
>Try drugs or some other illegal shit
That's a job for someone else besides me. That said, any thriving digital economy will spill outside of its intended purpose and attract other types of "business". MMORPG currency gave rise to black markets in currency exchange and has also been used for brouzouf laundering. Not gonna condone or condemn it but it's not my scene.
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No.57596
>>57537
>As a cryptoanarchist I share your goal, but the current fragmention of cryptocurrency appears to be a bigger threat to its long term existance than its current disuse.
That is nonsense. The free market settles who the winners and losers will be.
>>57538
>>>57537
>It's still a new technology.
BTC was written about in 2009 and made in 2010. All the subsequent blockchains came into being in 2012. In tech terms it is not new but well established. It might be new to you but I have been using it since 2011.
Effective p2p markets have yet to emerge but they will once the friction of centralized providers gets disrupted by cheaper, better, faster alternatives. Corona may even make it happen.
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No.57606
>>57596
>That is nonsense. The free market settles who the winners and losers will be.
Ultimately. For the now, the coexistence of various cryptocurrency makes them seem faddish and confuse potential users as people wait to see what the market decides. As the market is deciding, centralized powers are reacting creating alternatives, or adding friction. It would have been best for BTCs development and adoption if the many altcoins hadn't emerged.
>Effective p2p markets have yet to emerge but they will once the friction of centralized providers gets disrupted by cheaper, better, faster alternatives.
Have you heard of OpenBazzar ?
This is the most interesting thread on the place in a long time.
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No.57607
>>57591
I think the idea could be quite simple
Are you guys aware of how torrent sites like avistaz?
Basically upload credit works like a currency there, but the sites are set up so that only the owners can sell upload credits. If you upload 1gb you get 1 gb credit that you can use to download 1 gb.
If you download too much and get a negative value, you are derezzed from the site. However, you can buy upload credit using real brouzouf or crypto currencies.
This means that there is a monetary value attached to the upload credit. Right now only the owners of the website can monetize credits.I think the best way to set up a new currency is to start with a decentralized filesharing website, and upload credit is attached to a currency that is tradeable on exchanges.In this way even people who don't want to upload and seed can still buy their content, probably cheaper than amazon or netflix.
NEXT STEP:
Content providers can set up downloads using this system and they are rewarded by having increased rewards for their content. So for example, if you upload OC content on the website you are rewarded with 5x upload credit for what you actually upload.Can you imagine a site like this replacing bandcamp or soundcloud because you cut out the middle man and artists earn more brouzouf?
If you get normies to use this website and currency for their media, I think it is easy to expand the website towards extra sites that use the currency, maybe first like Etsy and later like Ebay
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No.57612
>>57606
>As the market is deciding, centralized powers are reacting creating alternatives, or adding friction
We don't need to wait though. We could adopt any currency we want and make it our official currency. I suggest NANO since you don't have to screw around with transaction fees. One less thing to turn the newbies away. Later we could adopt something like Tangram once it's up and running. It's feeless like NANO but also designed for extra anonymity.
>Have you heard of OpenBazzar ?
Just took a very quick look at it. It appears to be a more G-Rated, family friendly type of market. If piracy is what you have in mind it doesn't appear to be the culture of OpenBazaar.
>>57607
>I think the best way to set up a new currency is to start with a decentralized filesharing website
That would take time & development and know-how. Replace the word "website" with "informal network" and we could start today. Adopting a pre-existing crypto at a value much higher than its market value equates roughly to being able to "mint" as much of it as you need (via faucets) in order to get started.
Other than that, everything you've just described is roughly what I have in mind. We can use whichever combination of websites, platforms & online tools work best for the over-all functionality we need. Why wait around for someone to develop the platform with all the features we're looking for? We could instead develop an agreed-upon protocol for sharing files & doing business with each other directly, through our own custom channels.
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No.57616
>>57612
>We don't need to wait though
We don't make up the market. I adopting as much as I can, even making expenditures I wouldn't otherwise make to support the ecosystem. Nonetheless, Fragmention is currently harmful.
<openBazzar
>Just took a very quick look at it. It appears to be a more G-Rated, family friendly type of market. If piracy is what you have in mind it doesn't appear to be the culture of OpenBazaar.
Its P2P and was originally designed to handle failures caused by DNMs exit scamming or getting taken down. It currently has low adoption, but anyone could in principle sell anything on it. Its also electron based and dubiously secure for use transactions over tor.
Whats your proposal today? That I buy ebooks from you today in nano?
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No.57619
>>57616
>We don't make up the market
Not yet. I'm proposing we build our own ecosystem, with piracy as the seed for getting it started. If it grows large enough it'll become the market.
>I adopting as much as I can, even making expenditures I wouldn't otherwise make to support the ecosystem
An ecosystem should be self-sustaining and profitable for all parties.
>Whats your proposal today? That I buy ebooks from you today in nano?
I've only just started digitizing my books for that purpose and my "collection" still amounts to fuck all. But yes, you can do that, assuming there's anything in my humble collection that you'd consider worth the trouble. The amount I've digitized is in single digit figures.
Probably a more productive route starting off would be digitizing books yourself. Digitize library books or remove the DRM protection from kindle books. Booksorber looks like promising OCR software for physical books.
We would have to agree on the value at which we can peg NANO, which depends on how fast you can collect it. You don't want to peg it so high that people would make $1000.00 a day from faucets, or from mining other cryptos and exchanging them for NANO. They have to be made to work for it at least a little. Perhaps $10.00 to $20.00 for a few hours of effort. From that, price your books based on their equivalent price on Amazon.
Finally we would have to agree on a means of communication. I'm looking for a suitable encrypted chat. From there we could exchange keys in order to also use encrypted email.
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No.57624
The only secret with normies is making shit as accessible as humanly possible. Like if you build something that you think its retard-proof then you have to dumb it down even further if you want normies to use it
And thats the problem with crypto, the mere concept is too hard for most normies to grasp, they can't understand what a blockchain in, trust me I have tried to explain it and even the normies that truly wanted to get into this and approached me for advice could get what this is about
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No.57644
>>57619
So I have thought a bit about your proposal, and as much as I like crypto I can't support it. Here is why:
1.) It just continues fragmentation which is bad for bitcoin
2.) Its not going to work. I am not willing to spend 2 hours of time "earning"/"mining"/begging from faucets crypto to download a book. I can readily pirate as well as the next person. The real value of an available book is measured in minutes to me. Likely so for the masses willing to use crypto. Its unlikely that I have content of sufficient value to trade for any reasonable amount of crypto.
Any support I could give now, would be a brouzouf sink to boot strap a competitor to bitcoin that wont take off.
Perhaps some kind of token for posts could be of value.
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No.57654
>>57644
>Perhaps some kind of token for posts could be of value.
I think in order for people to be willing to pay tokens to post it would have to be for something special. Perhaps a site like Quora could monetize itself in this way. The people who answer the questions would receive the tokens that someone paid in order to post their question. It has to involve some kind of supply and demand like that. Nobody is going to pay anything, even fractions of a cent, just to shit-post since there are a million places where you can shit-post for free.
Of course Quora is also free. But my hope would be that monetizing it in this way could attract even more experts from various fields and make the service even better. It could still be a partially free service. It could adopt a mixed model wherein the experts & specialists who answer questions on the platform would have to do a certain amount of pro bono work each month before they qualified to receive tokens.
>It just continues fragmentation which is bad for bitcoin
I'm not concerned about fragmentation, or bitcoin. Wallets like Atomic Wallet facilitate crypto conversion between multiple currencies for minimal fees. And if fee-less cryptos supplant the current fee-driven model then it won't matter at all which crypto anyone uses. They can all be seamlessly exchanged with each other as needed. What you call fragmentation I just call the evolution of faster, better and cheaper-to-use crypto.
>I am not willing to spend 2 hours of time "earning"/"mining"/begging from faucets crypto to download a book.
I would, for a book that I wanted. But remember that I'm proposing a piracy network, not just a book piracy network. Print media was only an example of a type of piracy that is relatively untapped compared to others.
>I can readily pirate as well as the next person.
Yes but I'm thinking back to the Quora example. Quora is already a thriving community even though it's free, so why monetize it? Because this could improve what it has to offer by attracting even more specialists & experts. The same thing would apply to piracy. There are plenty of times people don't find what they're looking for on torrent sites. But if we could add financial incentives it could attract a lot more pirates and a much wider range of pirated content.
And since any material that they pirate will eventually get passed around and become widely available for free, they will be under pressure to constantly pirate fresh new content which isn't yet widely available.
>The real value of an available book is measured in minutes to me. Likely so for the masses willing to use crypto.
I'm willing to use crypto. The real value of a book to me is its content.
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No.57655
Personally, I think creating a crypto for a specific function is doomed to fail. It's really -really- difficult to maintain a crypto, the primary use of which is to pay for torrents. A successful crypto should be focused on an all-around fiat currency replacement. Like gold, but for the virtual era. A crypto for currency is not m*ney; it's closer to casino chips. And that's not the optimal way to jump-start a universal crypto IMO.
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