/cyber/ - Cyberpunk & Science Fiction

97 were cozy times

2007 was the tipping point

2010 was the warning

2015 is the end

>>37381

Yup. Internet culture has been taken and ruined by megacorps and people who just want to be trendy. Just like everything else. At least we are still around but we have to fight off newfags and normies all the time. Hell we're ashamed of the content and memes we've created because of the way normalfags take them.

OP here

>>37390

>2010 was the warning

What did I miss?

>>37392

The internet itself will never die because too much shit relies on it to work, so it will always be there

The point is whats going to happen to "our" internet, the original internet.

This internet today its bigger but ironically has less stuff in it, as in less variety.

The need to cater to the average joe means a lot of the stuff that made the internet great had to be purged, it had to be made more dumb-friendly, more family-friendly, more business-friendly

>>37415

Thats not the solution, building walls is actually what the current internet does. Sure the walls are made of glass to megacorps and the gov, but nowadays people just go into walled gardens like facebook where they can build their little place where only people who think exactly as they do is allowed to enter.

>>37381

We tried as best as we could to save the Internet from corporations and the NSA, but in the end, we failed. We will probably have to move to I2P soon. Do you know what the Usenet users did when Eternal September happened?

>>37424

Olia Lialina is T I T E

>>37443

I dont care what they say eternal september couldnt possibly be as bad as this

One thing is having a bunch of noobs, noobs who were lightyears ahead of the retarded noobs we have to face today btw, and another very different thing is having an internet thats mostly ads and tracking malware made by megacorps like google and facebook with backing of the government which keeps fucking the internet up for their own interests

Right now we are facing actual censorship, govs want backdoors installed everywhere, soon software will be tied to hardware like iphones do so most people will have to use a spy OS like win10 or osX, we're fucked

>>37381

The fact you have to specify the term normal-fag at all means you're probably an idiot. Or twelve. Or both. There's no such thing as a normal-fag, you're a normal-fag. I'm one. Your aunt is one. Snowden is one.

And the internet was never anything special anyway. Aside from keeping data and chatting to people, the rest of the internet has always been used to waste time.

>>37450

Thank you leddit

now fuck off

>>37424

>tilde.club

That's some impressive autism. Of the good variety.

I wonder how many got too jaded and harsh over the years to try and participate in something like that.

>>37467

What do you mean you wonder? IT's happening right now. People are fucking plebs. I mean I'm a huge noob and yet im horrified when I inform people about the shit HOLA does and they respond with "yea I don't care XDXD"

>>37473

>so that the masses will

Not him, but no, they won't do anything that requires effort.

They want to be entertained. They want convenience. Comfort. They don't want the truth, they don't want freedom as it comes with responsibilities. They were brought up on a very strict diet of information - or, rather, lack of it - and misinformation. They were bred to be happy obedient indentured servants. They are a lost cause.

If we do anything it is by giving those with still open, flexible minds all the tools they need to find truth for themselves.

>>37474

>They were bred to be happy obedient indentured servants. They are a lost cause.

It must be great to have effective omniscience about other people's shortcomings.

So you know the masses are useless, and you know that this is genetically determined.

Damn, son, take a plane ride to Sweden, because they are going to give you a Nobel Prize for that kind of factual science.

>>37482

>So you know the masses are useless

No.

>and you know that this is genetically determined.

Never said anything about genetics.

>>37415

>If you want to get away from normalfags, learn to build your own meshnets.

You don't have to go even that far. Paraphrasing a few articles Shii wrote damn near a decade ago + a few observations of my own, the problems with the modern internet boil down to:

>Web 2.0-ism

That is, the paradigm of "user generated content". User generated content, by definition, demands so-called "normalfags" to flood the tubes in order for the operators of 2.0 sites to generate content (and thus revenue).

For instance, take the fact that there are hundreds of chans online, but only 2-5 of them actually matter, because only 2-5 of them draw enough users to keep pumping out content.

Building a new network (or site, or service, or whatever) will inevitably fail if it relies on web 2.0 paradigms.

>Lack of Editorial oversight

With user generated content, there is no "bar" set to restrict idiots from publishing. This exists in web 1.0 (that is, any web admin can publish works outside their field), but in web 2.0, it's exacerbated by opening the floodgates not only to the odd webadmin, but to literally every plebian with a smartphone.

Thus, we get shitposting, bad information, pointless rants, uneducated opinions, etc.

Basically, the issue is that you aren't setting up your own site to publish your own information. Anonymity networks won't solve the issue – the problem is in how we have fundamentally changed how we interact on the network.

>>37474

>They were bred to be happy obedient indentured servants. They are a lost cause.

>>37485

>Never said anything about genetics.

So you have some kind of breeding in mind that doesn't involve genetics?

Your Nobel acceptance speech will be eye-opening for many biologists.

>>37524

Yes, because:

1. Obviously there is no data proving some behavior can be ensured by breeding certain combination of genes.

2. You seemingly know jack shit about inherited traits beyond there being genetics - which, I might add, was something taught in schools back when I was of that age.

3. You seems to be an insufferable shazbot for some reason. I hope it is just because you are trying to be le ebin trole.

>>37523

>>37518

Relevant:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/11/the_end_of_academic_elites.html

>>37550

>over-priced universities will disappear

>ever

They're going to become expensive exclusive clubs for rich people. Don't be silly, fam.

>>37497

>what is a library

>>37467

I'm days late, but here's something interesting

I have a little brother in elementary school. The county he's in supplies Chromebooks (nuff said) to every student for some reason. When I visited home for a week, he had a dilemma wherein he typed up an essay in MS Word on my sister's Mac, then went to school without uploading it anywhere or carrying it on a flash drive. He assumed that saving it to a hard drive was the same thing as saving it to a Chromebook, which by default makes a backup in the user's Google Drive storage. Little guy turned it in the next day for like 5 points off.

Stuff like this is happening and it's happening now.

>>37570

at this point its actually only sad.

sad that they feel the need to give elementary students chromebooks and sad that they dont seem to bother to explain how this stuff works.

also sad that they use high end technology to let them write essays which give no advantage whatsoever over pen and paper

I can't speak for everyone, but I can at least give my personal reasons for why I don't even bother with a lot of new things.

For me it's oversaturation.

It's not just limited to sites with similar features either. It's an oversaturation of communication platforms as a whole.

Personally whenever I'm confronted with something like that what ends up happening is I stop trying anything new and instead turn to inward reflection trying to analyze the situation so I can figure out the "perfect" thing to go with, probably because subconsciously I just hate the oversaturated environment and I want to rise above it in a way.

So I actually just get involved in less and less stuff, and get more and more frustrated because I can't solve the problem theoretically.

People who are new to the internet are probably faced with a similar situation as well. What's the point in even trying out those old internet communities they hear about when there's dozens of almost identical ones, and people on any of those sites say the others suck (or their own site), let alone trying brand new ones.

Why would they waste all that time delving in to find the right one, being called something akin to newfag everywhere? They don't have the experience to really make good decisions anyway, and look at us after years and years we still don't have the answers (that's why this thread exists right?), so what chance do new users have? It's easier for them to just turn their brain off and use whatever's popular.

Shit, if I wasn't there to hate them as those social media sites popped up, I'd probably just use them too and be done with it.

Honestly I don't know what there is that we can do. Because, honestly, we will never be able to confine what we build to a high-quality userbase. Nobody will ever be happy with it if we keep having these expectations.

Because, honestly, how do you define a high-quality user? Here on 8chan half the fucking posts are just people accusing each other of being cucks/shills/normies/insultofthehour, even though most of the users on 8ch are essentially the same demographic.

You see, the 8ch demographic is almost all the same people as the glory-days 4chan… the biggest difference is that everybody is spending all their time here on shit-posting and insulting other users, instead of making OC, fueling shenanigans, or having interesting discussions.

To answer OP's question, no, the internet will never be fully normalfag because we can always establish these fringe communities like the chans. However, if we want 8ch and sites like it to stop being so dead, we need to be proactive and stop contributing to the cancer

>>37612

>we need to be proactive and stop contributing to the cancer

I'm not sure that will happen any time soon for such a large userbase.

Although, I've been thinking about how website features can encourage one thing or another effectively without actually making rules.

For example, making anonymity the default on a website seems to do wonders for reducing attention whoring.

I wonder if there is some possible feature you could add to discussion boards that effectively encourages people to not be so paranoid about every post having ulterior motives, being from an outsider, or from a new user. Then you might get a userbase that takes it easy and spends more time being constructive rather than destructive.

>>37589

>which give no advantage whatsoever over pen and paper

You take that back. God bless the backspace button.

You seem confused between "the internet" and "this world wide web service". There are other services.

TBL and his team wrote the http spec, locators and a webserver when there was nothing like it. A webserver in C, a browser in object-c, a spec in "txt". He built it over TCP/IP, which existed from before.

Why.

Why should someone get into that can of worms.

Boredom?

Autism?

Revenge?

Because the use of their internet (CERN and related) they had a problem sharing data and commenting it.

So they made a machine fueled by interaction on usage.

And then open sourced it to fork it to the infinite.

Maybe it is time to stop consuming pre baked content and start building new services.

Actual problem solving is a nice path to steer away from stagnation.

Http is not only for html.

There are other protocols.

Will you use this existing network of cables or set up another?

Interested in the space internet?

Plenty of areas to look around.

>>37612

>how do you define a high-quality user?

A user that:

- criticize data from previous user

- declare not validated content and/or data

- self validates the data

(predictive data can be "true" data)

- give tools that others can validate that data

- data is "true" and can be used for the involved users

- next user builds over that knowledge

- knowledge gets curated and becomes content

Bad quality user:

- only consumes data

Case examples: OC and tutorials.

Core problem with the web: data is not curated, except certain websites.

Barriers of entry for users: language for using the knowledge, complexity, irl tools to test the knowledge.

Higher barrier asks for commitment of users, and will weed away consumer users.

>>37692

Perhaps imageboards have a problem with that, because that definition of high quality user is really suited for boards like /g/, /sci/, /cyber/ etc..

But that might not be what everyone wants on boards like /a/ or /jp/ because although some people do go there for in depth analysis and criticism of chinese cartoons, there's also a lot of people who don't care that way and just want to "hang out" there and entertain each other, so in those conditions users might view something as a high quality posts which would look like a very low quality post according to your definition.

Maybe it's just a conflict of interests then that degrade imageboards?

>>37689

This is really interesting. Although new programs and protocols might only be a solution to OP's problem if you assume the root of the issue is too many people with access right?

Because changing the methods information is accessed through would just limit the quantity and the type of people who use it, but ultimately most of the same dynamics would still exist, especially if we're talking more about communication rather than content sharing.

[Edited because posting error]

>>37693

The type of communication depends of the kind of content.

We still use (in some measure) email lists, gopher, private ftp, etc.

- The type of communication depends on the type of content and interaction required.

- The type of communication is a definition to be implemented by some tool.

- All above depends of the type of material network (bolts, cables, distance,etc).

User behavior will be from the code of conduct imposed by the usage, the trend or novelty, or the means of access.

Normies, like any kid that wants to be cool, will grab all that has a "cool" token and start using it to "belong" "here".

Example: Normies joined the meme thing because it is easy to start and disseminate. Attention made them "cool". Can be other value.

Maybe tools need to be more private, like getting invited to a friends bbq pool party, and somehow have a copy of the rules of doing business there.

Normies come here because novelty. Then:

- Barrier : There used to be shock images to force them to leave, Alt F4, or delete system32

- Barrier : These are too many letters past a twitter shout, plus "incorrect behavior".

- Moderation policy: Anonymity helps them to fuckup without irl consequences from mistakes (unless toxic data).

Don´t worry about normies shitting up places, just build better barriers of entry and a better moderation policy in the communication tool that serves the content.

If they can pass the filters and don´t like the users, add more or accept them in anyways. If they can´t pass the filters, normies will be bounced off.

>>37524

He's using 'bred' in the sense of 'conditioned', you fucking illiterate moron.

transitive v. To rear or train; bring up: a writer who was bred in a seafaring culture.

Something just occurred to me and I think it might be relevant to this thread.

Maybe the atmosphere online is so different today because most threats of malicious attack has been subverted by safety in numbers.

Hacker culture used to be found in some form on just about every aspect of the web, even if it was just awareness and safety measures, so their presence was felt even on big name websites.

So in other words, you had an environment where the most intelligent and educated users (usually the hackers) of the net had to be known and respected.

For whatever reason those threats turned out to vanish. Maybe it was safety in numbers, e.g. you can't exploit every one in the massive influx of people suddenly using their personal info online, or maybe the threat was just never real because the people with the knowledge weren't really as interested in damaging the lives of random people as everyone thought?

But now their voice is gone and something had to come in to fill the void left by that previous authority. Seems to be the least intelligent and least educated users that run the show now.

I wonder if suddenly all those old threats became real and felt across the entire web, destroying lives and forcing people to take precautions, use their brains a little, and restore authority to the hackers, if we'd see the internet return to it's old glory.

>>37757

>The flip side is the problem of inaccessibility

Not quite.

It seems like a decent barrier of entry.

If those initiatives are opensource, you could contribute with fixing those limitations, modules, libraries.

In this day and age it is better to have a clear service and benefits of using it, that can allow interested others to add things, while leaving normies to use the higher layer.

(Example, they provide traffic, in-the-know users ride the traffic and have sub comms. Which will need specific protocol or packet design).

It is better to have barriers of entry and moderation policies than moving all down to cater the less educated users. They can learn while trying to understand it and reap the benefits of it usage.

Maybe fork it in some future.

Maybe the service is for local access.

It really needs to be global access?

>>37886

>least educated users

>hacker authority

Not sure if ever was some authority of haxorz. Hacking relates more with kludging stuff to make it work as prototype from how one could imagine it new behavior of capabilities, not only for tech or electrical things. Probably it will break, explode or worst, but heh.

Least educated users tend to panic when losing control, worst when having to do something over tech enhanced processes and they lack the training. Then they demand restrictions to have things working at their pace, then cry when haxorz break that pace. Example, defacings. Example2: siphoning not encrypted user data. Example3: altering programs. Right or wrong depends of each one, some people won`t care of consequences. Etc.

I remember reading that some politic wanted to remove the "o" key because 0 was similar… Silly senator believed that a "int addition" won`t be affected by placing zero instead of "o".

Maybe it is the illusion of modernity when using these GUIs, because most of the internet work patched with duct tape and wires, and klutged code.

Normies are lemmings, until they get curious with at hand devices.

It is "our" "duty" to educate the masses, leaving breadcrumbs behind. Creation will stagnate if we don`t keep building things and leaving ropes to catch from behind lines.

Example: psp hacking.

Sony corps panicked, devs issued brick trojans, homebrews loled and learned more. (The psp has a sdk but still people need to make it do other things, because why no).

There is no returning to nowhere.

If you need to set some authority, set it up by barriers or force. But as you can tell, authority is only temporal when affected by those barriers.

>>37913

what the fuck

south park says it's caused by gentrification done by alien beings

you can still find leet people but you need to go where normies can't get to, something that is difficult to set up or just unpopular.

in the long term though we need to find out why normies are so fucking retarded and how we can educate them or we'll face another round of spanish inquisition.

adam curtis says the neocons are intentionally keeping people stupid.

>>37757

>Retroshare is good if you want a private BBQ party with just your closest buddies.

while that is true, it is also a fact that the public retroshare community is filled with the worst kind of dumb normie cancer you can find on reddit.

>>37551

>>37528

inherited traits were thought to be untrue until new evidence emerged a few years ago.

whatever you learned at school was only correct by chance and we have no idea what kinds of traits can be inherited.

either you're really old or your school sucked.

i agree with >>37762 that ever non-autist should understand your initial post to mean "conditioned" rather than "bred".

>>38029 addendum:

i assume that "inherited traits" means something like: a smith will have a son with strong arms and someone taught to be obedient will have an obedient son).

>>37392

>The Internet survived "Eternal September"

That's like saying America survived European colonization. The culture you would previously have referred to as occupying the space we call 'America' is utterly dead. In the same way, pre-ES Internet culture is effectively dead, confined to a handful of reservations as walled-garden shit like Instagram and Facebook become the new mainstream. And this process isn't over. It's accelerating.

>>37919

>>37757

The problem with artificial barriers of entry is that they are always either capable of being subverted or eventually growing irrelevant as the information and access begins to trickle down. We can see this in pepe and 4chan growing mainstream as opposed to 5 years ago when it was only shared by a "elite" group of power users. Artificial barriers of entry are normally not practical to maintain and never really manage to catch on, which some groups like Cicada exploit all the way to their logical ends. My pet theory is that most, if not all, social groups are based on natural forces rather than artificial forces like the ones people like to suggest. Yeah, an artificial barrier of entry might be an elegant solution, but its not very practical and won't catch on. I think that the barrier of inaccessibility is based on the popularity divided by the ease of access.

For instance, most popular websites try to lower the ease of access as low as possible to make sure that the popularity of the site increases as fast as possible. Halfchan and other sites survived by keeping the population low, often by shock images and calls of "REEEEE", but we can start to see this failing as people get more accustomed to the diverse nature of the internet and the population increases. Moving to other image boards and sites are only a stop-gap measure that will eventually fail since the ease of access remains the same and the popularity will only continue to grow. Just look at /r/cyberpunk for an example.

Ultimately, I think we will begin congregating in technologies that may be slightly outdated or obscure, like irc chatrooms, since they require a more intimate amount of knowledge about connecting to a server and navigating rooms and commands than say a google hangout where you click on the person and hit "connect" or something. Imageboards have been around a while longer than they should have simply because they're old technology, and often are not completely simplified for ease of use, although I think sites like reddit have been responsible for a number of users who are growing dissatisfied with their content on massive message boards and are looking to jump to more "unmuddied" waters like 4chan. Ironically, they're just gradually raising the mud for the rest of us and the next batch of immigrants.

It's my personal belief that societies are shaped not by the artificial barriers and forces by society itself or the megacorps, but often just the blind factors that happen to allow colonies of like minded individuals to happen to thrive, for a while at least until the conditions shift and users are forced to migrate or stay put and accept the new environment they find themselves in.

I don't really know for sure, I just enjoy thinking about sociological issues like these.

>>37473

OP again, this guy >>37474 pretty much said what I was thinking, specially this

>They are a lost cause

It would be easier to teach math to a dolphin than to get your average facebook user to learn about privacy and why it matters

At the same time we have to deal with megacorps and govs pushing for a non-free internet. The eurocorp just went bananas and all participant govs are demanding the internet to be curtailed and controlled, the limeys are particularly aggressive using pedos as an excuse when their own country is full of them and cops do shit about it.

Point is you can only make it that friendly to use until govs and megacorps interfere. Right now we're seeing the effects of interference in social media and anonymous sites like these by the use of bots and paid shills, and thats without counting things like the PPT which will turn every ISP into NSA agents

>>37467

Oh they have no fucking clue how all this works, it just magic, shit like youtube was predicted decades ago but normies only took notice when it was actually working, not caring at all about what got it running and bitching whenever it was 'slow'

>>38028

>adam curtis says the neocons are intentionally keeping people stupid.

>neocons

Neocons are a relic from the bush era and the 90s, they have zero power these days, the tea party was their last gasp at getting some control back and it failed miserably

Nah, the establishment co-opted the left and liberals long ago, the average progressive is practically a fascist now considering both only care about their respective groups and have a philosophy that boils down to "whatever X guy who is outside the group is saying is WRONG because they are outside the group" and how progressives push for unanimous uncriticized consensus and an end to free debate, again like fascists did/do

These days if you want to get people off your back you don't go to some old fart like cheney for favors, you pay off progressive shills like the huffpo to make your megacorp look good with stupid generic feel good posts filled with trending hashtags so most people will see it. Soon enough nobody cares about your sweatshops because look how inspired your designers are! look how cool your new HQ is! look at all the thing yourshitty ass closed hardware with a fancy casecan do!

Welcome to the future

>>38147

Interesting, but

>Just look at /r/cyberpunk for an example

Not really, thats actually an example of co-option by hipsters, that sub its basically "look at this tech-looking shit I found/stole from the guy who made it and erased the watermark". Half the post are halo-looking military police with randomas /k/ would saytacticool attached to them.

Theres very little discussion if any, its cyberpunk without the philosophy, without the knowledge, without the spirit.

Its really corporate-friendly though, expect the gap to launch a collection of cyberpunk clothing there.

>>38166

>Neocons are a relic from the bush era and the 90s, they have zero power these days

You apparently have no understanding of the Pentagon or the military-industrial complex.

>>38028

>we need to find out why normies are so fucking retarded

Why?

Try to make a normie understand that she can´t install the wsp app in a java phone of the 90s, or that she can´t login to her webmail at the google´s home page, or searching for RAM to download.

If you dare to tell them the obvious you make them feel retarded, and they will answer with rage.

And after the rage and the unwillingness to be criticized, or called out loud ignorants on the subject, they will shout loud to defend their self persona made of glass, make their pillow forts and call it their safe space. And continue behaving the same as before, looking how to download more RAM.

Normies won´t ever read a manual of anything, and everything must be retarded down by the UX to be "intuitive".

Are you sure you want to cripple all services and tools to cater to them?

They are lemmings who don´t want to learn.

Why bother.

>>38071

TBL started all this as a naive ´share and build´ initiative.

I guess it was because the amount of data was too much, and

interesting, and it seemed to show faceted truths, that if

mapped and correlated could show something new and useful.

He had to make the W3C at the MIT to keep up with that idea.

Later in the same perspective Page envisioned his webcrawler idea,

then added the datamining guy.

Meanwhile the whole all of others that you already know doing their thing.

It is all about how to make sense of the data mess and make use of it.

But normies undertand the web as a medium for publishing pamphlets,

because, it is "the same as reading pages".

Normies don´t want to educate themselves on anything because

the screen is their safe space of the controlled truths.

Learning anything on top of their complicated existence is to much for them,

because everything exist to entertain them.

The truth is only theirs, in their screens.

Debate cracks their self told lie because it forces correlation and mapping

of several sources of truths. So, they censor all that goes against it.

For them, the internet is not tcp/ip, servers, fiber, etc.

It is a collection of content on their screens.

These are two very different layers of use.

There is no ruin of anything but their own normie layer, where sadly

any web dev must retard down the ux to get the normies in if they want to

get employed by normies.

>>38147

Indeed a static defense will be broken eventually, even if patched.

It needs to be a dynamic defense structure, of sorts.

I guess i have to define better the ´barrier´ concept, but you had it

at the

>require more intimate amount of knowledge

Consider the barriers of entry not by usage or participation,

but as the capability of the wanna be user of understanding the language,

and the capability to have a conversation, or debate, on it.

If they can´t understand the language, or make use of it,

they will bounce off into their containment zone.

Example, specifications for xml on the semantic web, or worst, a research paper.

A simple normie won´t dare to enter a newsgroup or discussion about a boolean definition because

it has no use for him, or can´t understand it.

But for the hardcore ones that dwell on these subjects its a common language.

Maybe we need to write more technical?

Or discuss obscure or complex subjects?

can we broadcast a subject in layered entries?

Obviously this perspective is against normie user experience focused design,

but i sense that this approach can be set up layered in structured

baits to lead into deeper knowledge, while bouncing off normies to

the outer layers away from interested parties inside down.

Maybe if entertained enough they can dive in and learn, then

look back to their previous selfs, and cringe. But they are lazy.

>pop control with shock images at halfchan, pepes

The same content dilution happens in all the ib, not these only.

It seems more a systemic issue related to the usage and interaction

as the nature of the meme concept (´look this it is funny|cool|disgusting´; share).

With each share you get a vector of contamination, which adds up with the next share.

It is not intrinsically bad, but the quality is reduced at each share because normies

don´t make new original content, and when they do it is by copy.

>>38224

what you're saying about barriers is very true.

To make a place for intelligent discussion and to remove normalfags, a degree of intellectual thinking must be required to access these places. That is what creates these "glory days". A balance between difficulty and ease of this know-how is required to maintain sufficient activity in these communities. Unfortunately, the increase in intelligence of the average guy[citation needed] slowly compromises these havens as they gather more interest.

It should also be noted, that those individuals who seek these places, usually have a personal drive to create material as well, and are not just mindless consumers. That's where OC comes from, and is essential for a site to forming an identity.

>>38220

Is the idea that the internet is no more than content on a screen a Web 2.0 idea? Or does it stem from the constant reposting and re-sharing of tired old memes that should have died years ago?

/co/ has a thread about that gummibear shit that is basically just like this

>>38071

>people felt the need to isolate themselves in closed networks from which they block or censor unwanted people along with their opinions

This is a good thing, though. It'll lead to more subcultures, more tribes, more identities, and ultimately more distinct content. You could argue that content is worthless outside of the culture that can parse it, but I'd rather have 20 small, closed off cultures (like /cyber/) than 10 massive cultures that were generic and indistinguishable from one another.

>>38265

It's the dank mae-maes that keep it alive. And cat videos.

fuck normalfags

but at least they are somewhat contained on social media shitholes like fb or twitter

only thing we have to contend with is the fuckwits from reddit coming here and making this place intolerable

>>38167

/r/Cyberpunk is kinda what >>38224 was talking about, the dilution of content. It's like someone took all the content and just degraded it down to "I wanna be cyberpunk, look at this thing that I think is cyberpunk." For the majority of people who just want to be "in" with cyberpunk, that's all they need to feel with the "in" crowd. There's no discussion, and the content is only surface-level quality at most. I think this is accelerated not only by the amount of low quality users, but the larger influx of users that, in turn, bring a large amount of low quality users as well.

>>37518

In a way, Web 2.0 is just a way to artificially inflate the quality of internet communities.

If the equation of a community's quality is the quality content divided by users (which is decided by ease of access), then web 2.0 is plainly a way method to try and increase the amount of quality by increasing the amount of quality across the board. Unfortunately with web 2.0, the amount of users will increase way faster than the amount of quality content generated by an individual user, causing a degradation of content across the board. "Digital curation" sites like Medium or reddit are platforms focused on "quality" that try to inflate this artificially with voting measures and linking to push quality content to the top, and therefore a wider amount of users. However, these sites still end up having to deal with the massive amount of users, which all basically share a limited pool of quality content. You could argue that this cheapens the entire pool of content, but the massive popularity of reddit and aggregation sites (not to mention that popularity directly = more ad revenue = more profit) shows how well this works. (For the masses anyways, otherwise you wouldn't be here.)

This is why you see social media platforms always focusing on "userbase growth", because a platform that can't increase its content as the userbase grows won't get off the ground, because if the userbase grows faster than the quality content does, the community's quality as a whole will take a nosedive.

I think reddit is finding itself beginning to take this nosedive as its popularity grows. On one hand, the admins want to keep amount of users growing, but at a certain point the users will realize the trend and want to keep people out. We can see how this already happened with 4chan over the past few years. People realized this suddenly, and the amount of shitposts grew to an amount that caused people to get up in arms over "normies ruining our board, get out REEEE," and etc. At this point, though, its been too late. I predict that 4chan will go through a growth of popularity as "memes" begin to catch on in the population, and people inevitably want to see where "memes" came from.

However, I think 4chan will still take this dive slower than reddit will, because of the ease of access. Reddit, because of it's artificial method of inflation (upvotes), will slowly find itself stuck at a dwindling water hole with a ever-increasing amount of thirsty consumers. 4chan on the other hand, is a slightly more obscure format, lowering the ease-of-use. The 4chan comment thread will force you to read the entire thing, quality and crap, because nothing is artificially pushed in your face like a reddit thread. On top of that, think how many replies in a 4chan thread are actually worthwhile to read or aren't trolls. I would even argue that shitposts are one of the ways 4chan makes quality content, in addition to (imo) being a great way to make (semi)-impartial commentary.

>>38404

I had to break it up into two posts since it was too long.

>>38348

This is really only a stopgap measure, though. Is it really better to have a cornucopia of small communities (you can think of them as bubbles) that eventually collapse to bigger communities (users migrating to better communities, causing them to grow in size) until it finally pops (users grow unhappy with the platform until they hit a point where a mass migration occurs)? (imo) we need to stop looking at this from user standpoint and address the real issues, which is the content, if we can't forcibly control the usercount like in a private tracker.

A self-sufficient community would be based on creating as much as consuming. However, this community would not be considered "popular" in today's sense. "Popularity" today is intrinsically cancerous in this manner since for something to be "popular", the amount of consumers to creators is insanely higher as the popularity increases. (imo) Private trackers foster great communities because almost all of them focus on maintaining at least 1.00 ratio, i.e. giving back at least what you take. I really like one tracker I am a member of, which I won't name, but will explain here: They don't focus on maintaining a high ratio as much as a consistent one, that is at least above a 1.00. In fact, a lower ratio is more valuable than a high ratio, since a seeder with a lower ratio will be interacting and fostering more communication than a seeder with a higher ratio. I don't know how much the influence of seeding/leeching permeates through the community of private trackers, but I know at least that private trackers have the user part of the equation handled very securely. Often these trackers won't have an influence to try and increase the amount of users (unlike public trackers that rely on ad revenue), as well. This way, trackers can focus on the content rather than an everlasting fight between the content and the userbase.

I think I'm beginning to ramble at this point, but I hope you get the idea.

>>38405

How does the private tracker deal with shit content? If the goal is a high ratio, that would promote doing it at any cost, right?

>>38265

It is from the act of buying a machine that has a screen, and the concept that the web is similar to a publishing media, like magazines and tv.

That perception created idiocy like 'having ptsd from twitter and bullies'.

But 'drinking bleach because bullying' comes from ridicule emitted from a 'community that is built from the shared published media on the screen'.

There is a current trend on the publishing places on how to deal with 'toxic abuse'. They will reach eventually the problem between openness vs experience curation.

>>38404

>Digital curation

>bubbles

That is interesting.

There is a trend at the web on structured knowledge consumption and production, and badges of merit.

Example read: Collaborative Knowledge in Scientific Research Networks.

Example applied on us (or our projected beings in all these words):

Our current badges are our topics of writing, pepes, etc that we carry inside our parallel mindset pool (some of you maybe use one paradigm, but i preffer parallel personas when using different content websites and irl, because the topics are too wide and some concepts can´t live outside their realms without conflict).

From the badge pool we have this 'whitelist', and we dive into content streams looking the broadcast array for another bubble where to land.

Depending of the barriers of entry on the subject´s consumption, contribution or usage will be the returning rate to there and the creation of a stable bubble where to stay mentally, constituting a 'community'.

>>38248

>remove normalfags

Being normalfag is a state inside the illumination range.

You can´t remove 'them'.

Remember that you will behave like a normalfag in other topics outside this bubble when judged by it´s oldfags.

Staying in a state depends on the perception of abstract constructs and

the capacity of using them to shape new concepts, and broadcasting back,

learning it´s structure and navigation.

Eventually you leave the normalfag state when reaching enough illumination.

Or bounce off.

>increase of intelligence

Some people are really dense, and won´t understand constructs in front of them. Or they live by dogmas.

To people in that state some concepts are alien chinese that can´t use even by imitation.

So, to deal with these ppl there are three paths:

- benevolent teaching

- dumbing all down to cater the idiots

- thick walls pierced by mental strength

(Maybe there are more).

Also, if you lay down a navigational map to the subject people it will make their journey understandable to whatever their need was, and it will speed their exit or their dive in. Intelligence depends on how you measure it.

>sufficient activity

>identity

Time is a measure of change.

To build a community you don´t need a realtime content production.

You post was made a week ago and we all can still read it now.

To build a 'community' you need a shared journey, goal or topic that will answer 'the question'.

You need a constant memory space inside your own mind to relate with, interests and a place to broadcast a discourse that can be bounced back analyzed and reconstructed, and people having the same journey. Which shapes the group´s identity.

A place can be a common project, a bbs, a wall of text where each section can be interpreted as a voice.

A path to developing an answer.

These walls of text are content. (Text analytic softwares eat them like candy).

Content will shape the group´s identity if that content relates to 'the question' that brings all these people into their shared journey.

>>38220

Who is TBL?

>>38662

Tim Berners-Lee.

>>37592

Same, with so many things to read or watch, what I settle on has to be the perfect content, and more I have to think I'm in the right mood. Some of it might be opportunity cost though, since there is so much else we can spend our time on. Why consume content that doesn't seem perfect, if the grass is greener on the other side and we could instead spend our time on something better elsewhere.

>>37919

>Creation will stagnate if we don`t keep building things and leaving ropes to catch from behind lines.

Sooo many people don't get this. Yes, we don't want normies flooding in, but if we don't continue to help the curiosity of some of them, we'll be left as a bunch of old farts that will disappear like dust blown away by the noise.

I am really really really realy glad I downloaded most of the megachan walps when they were still around

nothing even close to that community since they transmigrated and got their degrees

even tumblrs are weak these dark days

>>38790

Then, your duty from now on will be to give access to it, and teach it.

>>37470

hola?, as in the "vpn" hola?

>>37589

>>37665

pen and paper has its advantages and disadvantages, same as modern word processing. for starters pen and paper is generally slower than typing, generally sloppier, and it requires more effort. godbless the power of editing in word processors and not having to worry about leaving space for editing on paper. this is all subjective but i personally find typing easier.

>>38777

growth or staying the same is good, but both require growth. to have growth you pretty much need people to join a community, the majority of these people will be normies and not very techinical to the community. the ones that help grow will be the techinical ones or the ones willing to change. the others will be siphoned off the a "safe space" like /b/ for example (is that even a good analogy?).

>>38790

>>38802

what are "megachan walps"?

It's weird, there's more and more people in this world and everything's getting more diluted but I thought the population increase and the ease of access to information would have increased these small communities but they just seem to get smaller or splinter or lose their quality?

I guess people just aren't into this shit anymore? But there to be more and more "nerds" and "geeks" but they're going the way of something like reddit and not this.

>>37402

this

>>37589

>months later and the thread is still up

that's /cyber/ for ya

Anyway, if in a few months you find this reply as I've found yours, I agree, it is sad that the guy didn't know the difference between "the cloud" and a hard drive. Still, I remember rather disliking writing essays on pen and paper. Ctrl+F, find and replace, setting periods to 13pt, etc etc etc were instrumental in my early academic career. I wouldn't trade 'em for the world.

>>38830

Agreed. I *need* something that I use handwriting with for math, and I would much rather jot notes than type on a keyboard or touchscreen when I'm on a set. Still, there won't be a single day on this planet Earth where I prefer pen and paper over typing when it comes to writing essays. My sister just finished up her state finals in high school and was apparently allowed to type in her writing exam instead of writing it on paper. I would have committed treason in exchange for that ability back in my own high school years.

>>38856

the barriers that other anons are talking about may not be helping. if you go around and ask people if they know what 4chan is (or 8chan or others) the response is usually negative. the culture and history surrounding these sites is sorta a turn away.

>>38873

when people of think of imageboards, they always think of the largest boards. from the people i know they just go around telling people how great /b/ is, the next thing you know you permanetly burned the image of loli into someones idea of what an imageboard looks like.

>>38874

my point exactly

>>38860

>Anyway, if in a few months you find this reply as I've found yours

Thanks for answering me. I see your point (and what the others said).

I actually agree to what you wrote. Of course there are situations when writing on a PC is the best thing you could do.

I was actually only thinking about the elementary student and that they should practice handwriting and not typing on a keyboard like a monkey. They dont actually write essays, they dont need to change the font or size or find and replace.

>>37563

>tfw next library is 40 miles away

>tfw you need to be registered

>tfw i could just sit at home reading wikipedia

libraries sure are great :^)

>>38927

>>tfw next library is 40 miles away

I instantly believe you.

>>37381

80% of internet users frequent 20% of the world's websites.

You can join the snowball of hiveminds, or go find a niche with like minded individuals. Each has their pros and cons.

>>38927

Why wikipedia or the library? There's a plethora of eBooks available over torrents. There's the Gentoomen Library, and the Gutenberg Project too.

>>38872

>the barriers that other anons are talking about may not be helping.

Do you need to open the (Pandora) box for the whole internet users?

Why? Do they need the whole knowledge? Would they understand it?

Would you really want them all ddosing at your water well?

To hoard all specs? Even your enemies?

Would the whole array of users care about your data? Would it be safe?

There is the odd understanding that 'the internet' is a safe place,

a welcoming place where we all are equal and there are no consequences

of accessing new knowledge, or collecting pepes, or the concepts attached.

That there are no new scars in the neocortex, or pulse data anywhere,

and the user is the same before and after data consumption.

Because people see things written at their screens, like tv, like books.

It is just all for grabs, take this, save that.

Some people are in the hunt for certain things.

Some just crave certain known effect or inferred knowledge module.

Some people turn on the screen to have a laugh and forget about themselves.

Others to learn. Others to work, or to control others. Etc.

There are different types of users, not all diving for the same outcome.

How do you guide them into their answer path, or fend off?

There is no lifespan to learn it all, or memory (yet) to remember all.

There are some subjects that are too dense, or emotional, toxic.

Some subjects won´t have any inmediate use, some will need certain infrastructure,

certain brouzouf or materials, or will cast effects like laughter or sorrow.

Because we don´t have everlasting lifespans, and we can´t stay awake all days,

the user have a window of time for accessing the web and consuming the content that

yields the desired effect. Eyeball (or senses) and memory time.

The user will prefer the content that maximizes the desired effect, and

will collect it where the user remembers it is produced, like a well.

Which means you have to set up barriers to filter and bounce off the wrong users.

The user won´t care about the 'culture',

just the motive that made it turn on the screen.

Barriers are needed to filter the user type.

If the user really wants the content it will reach it, and figure it out the next step.

But will need hints on how to become that next layer user. (If there is a motive for that).

>>37450

Cringe-inducing autism.

>>38348

>It'll lead to more subcultures, more tribes, more identities, and ultimately more distinct content.

Yet all of them are weak, most are false, and they don't contribute anything. They push their members to extremes, they prevent change, and they weaken their own point.

It all depends on their size and their accessibility.

Sure, a too large forum is a bad idea, but small ones are equally shitty. And then, it shouldn't rest on censorship nor exclude people, thematic forums are enough, so discussions are sorted, not isolated, which is the issue with echo chambers on the internet.

As much as I like diversity and isolation in the real world, when it comes to information and debate, it only makes you ignorant.

>>37424

I'm on squiggle.city, because tilde.club just doesn't have room.

I left social media about, oh, 3-4 years ago because I realized that they don't even say new things about the shit they talk about over and over. It got too samey.

normal-fag here, I'm sure most people don't want to be normal and do actually want to generate content, but sometimes you need a push in the right direction. after reading most of this thread it's agreed that barriers to entry are extremely important, but there also needs to be hints and tricks along the way to discover niche communities that are active, and have content. For example: here there were a lot of intelligent opinions on how the internet evolved which brings on questions:

why is it that most of my friends don't care that they're shackled to a system that is akin to an advanced panopticon?

you all make statements about how the internet is stagnant: there aren't people contributing with good content, being high quality users as anon pointed out

>>37692

others made points of how the herd mentality can suppress and destroy intelligent conversation and the spreading of ideas which is completely true. When confronted with ideas that challenge deeply rooted paradigms or make someone "feel stupid" bind rage is typically the answer. Logic is thrown out the window and all ears are closed.

With all of this time identifying a problem, only few solutions were actually mentioned. Many of them were written off quickly.

Some of the ideas involve a high fixed cost like setting up a mesh network around the city. While this would be excellent how rich are all of you anons?

anyways like I said, i'm just a normalfag who's trying to expand his horizons.

Problem has been thoroughly diagnosed, and I'd like to be part of the solution.

I like anonymity, it brings with it a sense of freedom. There's a saying "true character is what you do when no one is watching". In a world where everyone is watching, the freedom to be one's true self and show their true character can only be achieved through anonymity.

time to be part of the solution, all contact appreciated.

anonblackbeard@tutanota.com

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>>38404

I wouldn't conflate popularity with quality like that, lets be honest some of the most popular websites are mostly shit, and their founders know that which is why nobody focus on quality anymore, it simply doesn't sells and is more expensive to make.

Userbase growth though is everything, I work with startups and the number one rule for them is users above anything else, they couldn't give less of a shit what happens to quality. The only exception is the quality of users because that can affect the site/app's valuation and ad revenue.

Case in point quora lost a lot of its high-end silicon valley users and gained a ton of indian users, so now the site went from an upscale reddit of sorts to a third world social network. Instead of selling it facebook they will end up selling it to some indian media company at a much lower valuation.

I think 4chan peaked, right now they're just trying to get some revenue going. Something similar happens with reddit, but that site has a conundrum: what made it cool and popular is also what makes it unprofitable, so now its trying to become a platform for shady marketing tactics. Obvious corporate spam that in the past got deleted is now left alone and in some cases it mysteriously makes it to the front page. Given that now even facebook sells likes is it so crazy to assume reddit isn't selling upvotes as well?

>>38405

>Is it really better to have a cornucopia of small communities

I disagree, whats happening is that people are no longer exposed to other ideas and users with a different mindset.

Instead they live in these virtual walled gardens where everyone is a pansexual dragonkin (or some other bullshit) and they beliefs are never challenged, their news feed are just a constant echo and there is no discussion, only consumption

This of course is extremely profitable for megacorps and convenient for governments as well. They no longer have to fear uprisings because each community is carefully compartmentalized so any trends that could be detrimental to them can be easily contained before it reaches a critical mass

>>38648

>That perception created idiocy like 'having ptsd from twitter and bullies'

The problem was that media was looking for it most profitable users, the kind of numb idiots who spend brouzouf they don't have on shit they don't need all the time. In the era or targeted ads this is the users sites want the most because those are the ones ad networks pay the highest CPM for.

And who were those users? dumb upper middle class (and higher) pseudo-left bleeding hearts raised by helicopter parents. They are the idiots who get diagnosed with shit like 'shopaholism' and who back a bullshit project on kickstarter because its trending.

And this is the kind of public that wants safe spaces where their shallow ignorant views of the world cannot be challenged by reality, and because "the client is always right" the web media gave these assholes exactly what they wanted.

>>38927

You can buy/torrent books these days anon

However I do agree that public libraries should fuck off with bullshit community shit and just digitize all books

>>39081

'Media' is part of the group that understands the web as another type of publishing place. That behavior is just how they were since the printing press.

For them, you are a reader, that maybe will look at their ads and buy something. Maybe they will allow comments. They only care for your eyeball time realstate.

Their 'political views' are for selling their e-magazines to certain segmented eyeball groups. Search which other brands the same media owners have and you will find that they have several parts of the spectrum of political views with opposing publishing places. It is their business model.

That content is tailored to those users.

There is nothing (or how) to change the 'media', just avoid wasting your time. They can´t be 'saved'.

>>39080

>whats happening is that people are no longer exposed to other ideas and users with a different mindset.

Maybe web users need to face a challenge, or a quest, to search answers of certain topic, to build a car or how to learn something.

If they don´t get an invitation to leave to an 'adventure', they won´t ever know that they are in a poor state of mind.

Which leads to the 'hints' that means >>39078

What if 'we' leave breadcrumbs of sorts?

Each gate could serve another challenge.

By structuring knowledge i could set up a unsuspecting user into building a machine, or learning assembler to crack a gate.

A warning though, it will need server coding, because websites by themselves are a low barrier of entry, and will be compared to that gamify crap.

(Example that pgp msg, or some unindexed url pointing to a knowledge puzzle solving).

It is kinda nice that these messages won´t be saved.

>>39116

>That behavior is just how they were since the printing press

Not really, back when there were subscriptions to magazines and newspapers people demanded quality, but now they demand free content which without a subscription its completely unprofitable

So now the media sells news to the highest bidder, and the 'news' are whatever that bidder wants them to be

>>39117

>If they don´t get an invitation to leave to an 'adventure', they won´t ever know that they are in a poor state of mind

They don't want an adventure, they want an a "ride", a carefully controlled experience where they wont get to see anything even remotely unpleasant

>>37913

I love that dude in Black Flag, still this webm basically showcases why normies act the way they do, when they come to communities like this they look at everyone like retards. Eventually, they realize how outnumbered they are and attempt to act like a manager of the clearly 'uncivilized' masses of anonymous users. Soon they realize no one is listening to what they say and begin to use the anonymous posting scheme to prop themselves up. However, after some time they never stop using the anonymous posting scheme and become engrossed in the culture of the anonymous masses.

Becoming anonymous becomes a guilty pleasure for them, and they feel as though they have a voice because they are blending in with the anonymous crowd and their text has more relative weight to it than it did when they were trying to be high and mighty. When a new person like them enters the fray, they adopt the anonymous method of dealing with newcomers, further moving them away from normie-dom.

The problem arises when they don't stay in the community long enough to realize that adopting their mannerisms and culture help their voice to be taken seriously. This is clear in situations where newcomers have a specific purpose of visiting a site (as had become the case with /b/, /v/ and many popular boards on chans). They go to /__/ because they heard it was like so-and-so, they visit /_/ because what someone on another site told them go check out something there.

They only stay long enough to see what they came to see and leave before they develop ideas or feelings about the other content displayed. Facebook is an embodiment of this. People only go to see what their friends are up to, then they leave. There is not enough time spent to develop a culture there, and everyone has an immediate purpose of being there, contrast with places like gaming communities that act more as time-sinks where even though the immediate goal has been met, people still loaf around in the community for other purposes, eventually becoming subsumed into that game's culture.

at least, that my 2 cents.

>>39134

i can understand that. i always thought we have the normie culture on sites, specifically imageboards like this, because someone heard about a club and they want to fit in. all the people who want to join anonymoose go to 4chan, but they dont want to improve the culture there, they simple want to be a part of the club. they strive to fit in, but they are trying to become something thats just their projection of what the club is and not what it actually is.

>>39118

Huh. i wasn´t understood.

My bad.

What i meant was that Media still functions in the printed magazine paradigm: everything printed by them is the reality. They are the bearers or the truth. They control what gets printed.

That is opposed to how reality is built.

They design the reality as an experience to be bought as long as the consumers are kept consuming their 'truth'.

The printing press gave power to whoever had the brouzouf to own one. Now you have servers and websites, with several layers of (unverified) truth.

You need several perspectives and also freedom of speech to understand the whole. But full freedom is scary and dangerous.

The Media designs the truth to sell their content, not by a hidden agenda. It is their business model. And inside that model happens the subscriptions, and the paid articles and fake news. Branding and marketing is the name of the game. The 'news' are for entertainment and ad selling.

That is why i wrote there to not bother with them. They only care with the selling eyeball realstate to sell their content and their bidder´s content.

>>39132

>They don't want an adventure, they want an a "ride", a carefully controlled experience where they wont get to see anything even remotely unpleasant

>They

Users are not monolithic.

But they want some security to avoid being killed or mentally abused.

9-to-5 people enjoy rides (rollercoasters) and read about adventures (ex: travel guides, googlemaps, adventurers notes, books, etc)

Adventurers enjoy challenges (ex: Artic challenge, civil war markets, far east trade, etc).

Creators design realities.

Etc.

Those are different users.

You just have to learn how to bait to filter each.

Still, designing realities and the experience is a current topic od research. I personally feel it is boring and empty if not paired with risks, learning, which leads to emotions, and again, you can script emotional and logic rides.

What if after that ride the user becomes someone else?

Maybe that is why they search for adventures but enter premade rides.

>>37523

actually making a fucking mspaint comment rather than just typing. why dont you use a trip too? you are so deep into the FICTION and look of this that you will never be truly cybrar

>>37756

>Maybe tools need to be more private, like getting invited to a friends bbq pool party, and somehow have a copy of the rules of doing business there.

So IRC channels with a key?

>>39253

That too.

Or NFC tags, or QR codes + longurl, etc.

Not all sites are indexed, or have a domain (bareback ip as a wall stencil)

Build more systems, more content, and breath life into.

>>39231

9-5er here. You missed your own point about being monolithic. I've bombed around Europe on trips that most people wouldn't even dream of, just got back from an obscure location in the Carribean, and am looking into a position that'll leave me isolated from the entire world for a year simply because its location is so disconnected. Travel guides and books? That's what I bring back for my family to look at, along with photos - if I'm allowed to take any.

>>39279

That is your alt life, not your "real one".

It is the same as tourism.

Truly a normalfag.

But heh, at least you move around to vent and do the hidden personal garden reality game, then back to 9-to-5 in the safe town.

I guess you daydream with that too.

You are not a unique snowflake, all normalfags daydream of being edgy outsiders, and here you are, traveling far away to avoid irl consequences. Lol.

Also

>bombed

>tagging rocks or tourist spots in the caribean

I usually punch those cunts in the teeth when they are defacing my city. I collect those looted switchblades.

Go and "bomb" your own suburbian ghetto walls chum.

>>39230

>The Media designs the truth to sell their content, not by a hidden agenda

Leaving aside the clickbait crap to drive views and thus ad revenue there is indeed a hidden agenda, its just not the spoopy conspiracy poltards believe with the j00s pulling the strings but simply PR companies that either pay bloggers or outright own the websites where the "news" go

The next web is owned by a PR firm, and thats just one example of many

Just this week a new IM app called Peach has been shilled constantly by TechCrunch, buzzfeed and NYmag, and they went as far as aggressively defending this crap in the comments of their articles. If you believe they weren't paid for that then you're exactly the kind of delusional chump these companies look for as customers/audience

You simply can't compare the level of undercover megacorp shilling these days with the era of newspapers, they are constantly building new ways to sell ads as news because now they can know in real time if their shilling efforts are effective or not and change strategies accordingly

>>39325

And of course normalfags are oblivious to all this, as seen during the GG controversy where they simply ate the crap bloggers would spew out

>>39325

>>39326

That techcrunch shilling is not a conspiracy.

It is a (paid) marketing plan to put the users into buyer´s mindset, to get brouzouf from the 'free' app.

Companies use the app´s metrics to map their users and shape the brainstorms for marketing plans. When deploying a plan they will pay any website or news company that can help to achieve the planned buyer scenario. With web/tv news they rent space and shape it as 'news'.

Each publisher, corp, country, group has their own agenda. So, it can be objectives of politics, trade, or perception of reality.

To add over the paranoia, 'most' of the user monitoring and datamining tends to be for commercial goals. There is a lot of 'research' of the users, by their habits, to map trends. Several datacenters are mapping usage looking for these 'trends' to alert for 'alt-right-terrorists' or jihad clowns behaviors besides commerce related maps.

Who is the target audience to react by these plans? Normafag populace. Not fringe population.

And about normalfags, all the apps are augmented reality and evasion of reality in the shape of a game that they play irl alone. Most of them have social personalities, but are restricted by day to day no-time-to-be-social, so they use these apps to reclaim that 'freedom'.

The plan designers know that normalfags only react, so they make all these things to steer them.

And normalfags don´t care, because the only real world is what they can experience firsthand and now.

>>37450

Likely born in the 90s if not the 2000s, tango bravo hotel

>>39361

>That techcrunch shilling is not a conspiracy.

Legally it is, problem is blogs are in a short of grey legal area and the FCC can't just go and bust them like they would to a TV show

Problem is making new laws takes a long fucking time and a ton of brouzouf let alone you have lobbyists paid by blogs to block this since thats how they make their brouzouf

>>39507

Pretty similar here, came around /b/ in 2007 when I was around 23. I used to live with two other anons, but nowadays it feels like I've been left behind. I still Laugh Out Loud to the antics Chris Chan gets up to, but now its different, like if I send my oldfag friends a youtube link to chrischan putting vibrators in his bra, its like I'd be risking it that they'd reject it and I'd look stupid, even though they're the ones that introduced me to the CWC in the first place.

Sometimes it feels like I believe in things (like anonymous culture) genuinely, while the people around me only believe it in as a fad, or just to fit in. But I suppose thats true of most cultures, there are the diehard core cadre and then the rest who are just there because thats the thing to do.

>>39521

>Everything that is outside this pool is devoid of life. There are no longer people browsing and discovering new websites. Everything that the layman needs is in Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Youtube, imgur, tumblr. Most online forums have dried up because people have taken their shit to reddit to discuss their hobbies.

Sadly I would agree that this is true. HOWEVER, the small communites or niche ones remain, especially for more technical things. I would assume forums like the audiophile Head-Fi (which I am not a member of) and forums that serve a more techinical and isolated interest still live on. Now or course googling "audiophile" lends the fifth or so search term as /r/audiophile. Even within the chans you can see similar behaviour. Some people will stick to a single chan because "muh things all in same place" mentality. This also may be why Reddit is so popular (besides just being popular = popular) as you can have everything you need or want in small contained gardens, which equates to easy viewing for the "lazy normies".

>>39521

It was this reminiscing that I rejoined facebook. Plus that video with the guy talking about how privacy is dead, and now they're taking anonymity. It's like, what's the point anymore. I can definitely say without a doubt that it has 100% improved my life. I rekindled lost friendships, I shitpost with other people, I do things. Is facebook a hellhole for privacy? Of course, but privacy died a long time ago kids. See the video I made mention of to kinda get the point.

Facebook re-intergration is something I honestly don't regret at all. I stopped using it for a year and all it did was stop me going out, make me horridly miserable, and worst of all, made me lonely. Am I a facebook shill? No, I actually advise people to not stay with facebook and if they do they should really consider the alternatives. But there's no other market. It's not like with myspace and how facebook suddenly appeared. There's no competition now because facebook

a. got way too big too fast

b. is so much more convenient

c. well designed to make you want to stay and create dependence

d. Facebook has billions to play with. They are not going anywhere for a long, long time

e. law enforcement work with facebook to get most of their intel, so they don't /want/ facebook to die out now

Life without facebook is like cutting out of the internet forever. It's okay at first and you feel free, but the crippling loneliness and "muh freedoms" mentality will kill you.

>>39535

I'll take this bait.

Don't you have a phone and email address? So do all of the people you are "connecting" with on failballs.

Use it to hunt people down then send them a short message with your email or phone number and see if they want to meet up.

Make it so nobody can post on your wall but you. Then dont do status updates, tagging, checkins, etc. Have one post on your wall that says you are only using facebook so people you meet can find a way to contact you by email and phone.

Engineer your clearnet appearance to work for you. Dont compromise and dont participate in the whole "lol I went here yesterday and it was fun. OMG what a cute baby/duck/puppy/turd. Sign my petition to ban dicks. 1 liek ekwals 1 pray. BERNIE/TRUMP 2025" bullshit.

Have a real life with real timesinks. You can be lonely in a crowd. People are garbage, avoid most of them and keep a close group of people with integrity around you. You wont be lonely then.

Just my 2 cents. I'm out of here.

>>39535

You honestly just sound like a normalfag.

Privacy is only one of the reasons people don't like sites like facebook.

It's just the one you always hear about because it's the one that's easiest to quantify. Most people probably won't admit it but a big part of disliking those sites isn't based on logic and is therefore not an experience you can easily share with others.

Most of us who used the internet a lot before social media will notice a massive difference caused by their coming into popularity.

The funny thing is, you have a fairly large population of people who developed a dislike of those sites because the damage they caused is so obvious, yet at the same time it's so difficult to quantify that it seems like anyone who didn't go through it themselves doesn't understand.

>Life without facebook is like cutting out of the internet forever.

I've never even been able to think of facebook as an actual internet website.

Just directing my browser to facebook feels like I'm opening my front door and walking out into the real world. I really don't see how you could even think to word it in that manner, regardless of whether or not there's any truth in it.

Nostalgia for early internet… You know, the Seapunk movement was all about the early internet aesthetic. It's not hard to imagine a political movement towards returning to our original, unpoliced freedom using that "dolphins, photoshop, pyramids, U.F.O.s, flying toasters and dancing babies" look.

Oh, and growing pipes, lol.

>>39543

>Nostalgia for early internet… You know, the Seapunk movement was all about the early internet aesthetic

From the perspective of people who never experienced it. Net.art works are a better example of appraisal of "1.0" aesthetics.

>>37381

what I see is that the internet is going the way of Tv.More and more retarded shows and promoting stupid popular people that actually do nothing except being stupid on Tv.Now the internet is flooding with more retarded people who learned how to use the internet and the average people who laugh at them.

>>39543

luv et.

my needed input :^

anyone remember b0g?

i don't, but there was once a song on yt about it that was pretty cool. anyone got that song?

>>39596

>this internet

Do you push your comments via telnet? Because this is a service, called "the web", using http. There are other services at "this internet.

t. autism

>>39577

>the facade

(2nd try)

Funny thing is that everyone that i met irl tell the same finding, yet still they have an acc there.

We use masks irl too. Or 'personas'.

Imagine showing your power level before softing the target.

The fb facade is built upon the concept that the screen is a mirror, of the user´s property. Then, bullying is the mirror talking back and shattering by itself. All the 'omg yer so cute, go fatpower' are that same ppl that don´t want their own mirrors collapsing. They are projections of themselves, how they want to be seen at the other ppl mirror.

Also, because they will be blocked (and alone) if they truthwrite. Normalfags believe the web is irl, and behave accordingly, most of the time when irl name is linked with work or business websites and services. Just treat it as a channel. What if the same person you know as a normal was a white rabbit in another hidden bbs expressing himself differently.

>>39535

Lol Normo.

Fb is a web service, not the internet itself.

>>39521

You will have to list all the reasons of 'why you and them switched websites to gather at´. It reads that you are addicted to ppl to satisfy your constant loneliness.

Because most websites don´t have real time commenting (meaning, like when the fb chat has the txt: "fag01 is writing something…", or the double check at wsp, for example), and you don´t have access to the website metrics, it does not need to be true that the site is dead. Maybe when the content at it is stale.

Besides the indexing bots, the spiders and the rest, some people still lurk for "answers".

Maybe you got addicted to sense that there is someone at the other side of the website´s collective screen.

Chans have the attribute that they are a cms of a "blog", where the content is dynamic. Unlike static (even with ajax or json) content websites the webjanitor has to keep uploading things. But with chans the content is pushed up real time, in a temporal place.

>>39494

Well, if you view it that way, maybe those are temp.bubble conspiracies geared towards brouzouf gains.

>>39507

Age does not apply. It is the interest of the subject or the shared activity, and the capacity to deliver, add or share outside the 'temporal shared mental space' that is a website.

These places are just like venues where strangers come to chat of anything and take out the experience back to the next venue.

In an Eatrh´s day the likely web user will have 8 hours more or less to use his eyes to media content. The average memory span is like a day or two for shiny things. These parts of the web are competitors for large budget marketing firms, so imagine the effort of them to pull users from here and turn them into normos.

>>39541

>Don't you have a phone and email address?

Of course I do but nowadays if you're not on fb you're an inconvenience to contact and don't get spoken to.

>>39543

>You honestly just sound like a normalfag.

>Most of us who used the internet a lot before social media will notice a massive difference caused by their coming into popularity.

I didn't even discover social media existed until I was 16, the "muh 90s" maymay doesn't make you leet.

>>39613

>>39577

> It's absolutely fucking satanic.

I absolutely agree. I hate facebook but until it dies it's going to be basically "oh. Y-you don't have facebook? Whhhyy?". There's someone I like and I barely get a second alone with them (only comes by once in a blue moon) but I was able to confidentially say what's up in their inbox and get the ball rolling. I don't really like and I don't expect likes because I know it's just positive reinforcement. I don't post 9000 pictures of myself and post them. I honestly wish I didn't remake a facebook because my good friend who I enjoyed talking to blocked me for absolutely no reason. And if I just delete my facebook again where will that leave me?

Wouldn't it be ironic if we all contributed to make our own free/open source social media? Where you can inbox people and shit and make stupid statuses about how your cat died and it gave you an erection, but your post didn't get pinned to you? That'd be quite cyber.

This is one of the most interesting threads I've read on the entirety of 8ch for some time.

/cyber/ has some pretty cool dudes

>>39630

>I didn't even discover social media existed until I was 16, the "muh 90s" maymay doesn't make you leet

How does that change anything? The internet has changed, whether or not you were there to see it.

>>39630

sounds like you're basically after twitter. its not open source tho

>>37443

>Do you know what the Usenet users did when Eternal September happened?

What did they do?

for real?

>>39760

>dvdrip

disgusting. why arent you watching with 24bit audio?

>>39507

>Most of us are either facing the cold harsh realities of adulthood.

True, can't argue with that, we are like the guys with the garage band that can't meet to practice anymore so they give up and become wageslaves

I'm currently trying to break into the tech business, place is full of normalfags now nothing like the stories from IT companies of the 70s and 80s, but at least I'm not doing shit I truly don't like and I might make enough to sort of retire young and do my own thing

>>39510

>the people around me only believe it in as a fad

That happens a lot, most people just don't have the willpower to really commit to anything and they are terrified of being the odd one out and missing out on something so whenever stuff gets "old" they drop it like the turd and embrace whatever is "in", even if the new thing is indeed a total piece of crap

>>39521

>Now my friends are nagging me to get one

Its ironic but since facebook is not too mainstream and even grannies have profiles there is not so crazy to not have a facebook anymore, the only risk is that people will think you're a hipster for not having a profile anymore

Tho you'll be expected to get a profile on snapchat on some other new shit

>I feel like all the web 2.0 websites sucked up all the people "surfing the web" and locked them all into this small pool of mainstream websites

Well yeah, its called a walled garden and its extremely profitable, just like a private park is more profitable than a state park thats open to everybody

>Most online forums have dried up because people have taken their shit to reddit to discuss their hobbies

True, an enthusiast car forum I used to go to its practically dead now and its facebook group that was initially only to post pics and news has now replaced it

>>39535

I avoid facebook like the plague, there are actual studies proving it makes you depressive because people literally manufacture parallel lives there, its a bubble of narcissism and self-hatred where everyone tries to get what little attention they can from others in their group

>There's no competition

Twitter is collapsing and snapchat is growing, you never know whats going to happen user and if facebook keeps becoming uncool people will eventually leave it

Unlike many google services which are actually useful there is nothing facebook provides that is truly irreplaceable

>>39541

>You can be lonely in a crowd

Indeed, and social networks know this which is why they encourage minimal levels of interaction like likes and upvotes to give the illusion of actual engagement among users

>>39560

Seapunk was a hipster masturbatory exercise at staying relevant after exploiting 80s styling to death, it went mainstream way too fast with even fashionfags co-opting it

>>39562

Oh man totse was the shit, lots of unbearable shazbots at times but also a lot of knowledge about stuff you couldn't find anywhere else

>>39577

>Facebook is the closest thing today to living in the matrix. It is essentially a fake world that you and everyone around you chooses to be real

The problem is that facebook is not only a fake world but the people there are fake too. The point of the matrix is that people had been enclosed in this simulation without even knowing it, but facebook is sort of a peer-pressure driven act of self mutilation towards the aim of being more relevant within facebook itself

>>39584

That was inevitable, problem is that this idiot internet is killing the old one, not living side-by-side

>>39596

>It started with Eternal September and reached its tipping point with the birth of the modern smartphone

Theres an almost 20 year gap between those events

>Our great-grandchildren may be learning calculus at 8, while surfing the deep web or i2p

I don't know if you keep in touch with what kids are doing but they aren't getting more skilled, on the contrary they are getting incredibly stupid

They are very versatile at navigating dumb-proof GUIs but that's it, they don't even fucking know what a command line is let alone how to code, and don't care since how is that useful when using kik?

You can see that with some newfags right here in 8chan. They can't hack for shit, they aren't even skiddies since they can't get something like LOIC running at all, the oldfags who actually knew how to find exploits are gone which is why we no longer see major ops like before, all these kids can do is raid a site and post gore.

I see all kinds of dumb questions at trackers about how to install pirated games, thats because we have an entire generation of touch retards who can't even navigate through an install wizard and have no fucking idea how to install a crack. They got used to appstores and steam doing literally everything for them, when it goes wrong they lose their shit because they don't know what to do.

Our grandchildren wont even be able to search for stuff because they will get used to speech bots like googlenow doing it for them, they might not even know how to use a physical keyboard.

>>39613

>everyone that i met irl tell the same finding, yet still they have an acc there

That's the social pressure factor I mentioned above, is just how a lot of people realize their friends at work are shit but they can't afford to lose them for professional reasons

>>39630

How old are you user?

>>39661

Yep

>>37420

The variety is still there. Compared to 1997 there's more weird shit online, but there's shitloads of stuff these days and the neat stuff gets buried under mountains of useless drivel.

But yeah, Interent becoming Serious Business has ruined a lot of things.

I miss not being tracked and not worrying about my freedom when discussing interesting topics.

All those walled gardens with strict corporate control do ruin things. As now it's corp's not national laws that define what's acceptable.

>>37470

It's so hard to care. Ignorance truly is bliss.

I could encrypt everything strongly, but then I would have to remember keys and pass phrases, and that takes effort.

But not caring about what HOLA (the vpn) does and how is something I'd not do, as using HOLA can be potentially dangerous to my own freedom.

>>37523

Making or running your own networks is hard frigging work. A good example of independent networks killed by cheap internet are amateur radio packet nets.

We used to have a 100% non-commercial 100% volunteer run data network in this country, but it's gone now.

The USA reportedly had their packet net stretching from coast to coast, one short hop at the time.

Packet radio is imho the largest (even if dead) example of a real life independent network. No VPN's no internet linking.

Just straight up RF links.

>>37557

Collage level education is free here. Currently. It's likely gona become paid as current budget cuts hit the universities and collages hard.

>>37615

Anonymity still is one of the main reasons why chans can be good and have interesting discussions. No post counts or namefagging.

Just people discussing.

>>38071

I agree with you on that.

>>38147

IRC sure is still alive for niche technical stuff.

>>38405

Does a service or site really need to be popular?

Sustainable amount of high quality users is imho better than popularity. Enough add revenue and/or donations to pay for the servers.

>>39775

Wasn't packet radio extremely limited in terms of speed?

>>39774

>I don't know if you keep in touch with what kids are doing but they aren't getting more skilled, on the contrary they are getting incredibly stupid

I definitely agree.

If you regularly used technology 10 years ago, it was because you really liked it, and you understood how it worked. If you had Wifi in your house, you were pretty hot shit. Now everybody has their computers, their smartphones, their tablets, and they're on the internet more than ever before but they don't know shit. The stereotypical "grandma on the internet?" That's the average kid today.

My father and I are pretty good with computers (I "know" more than my father, but that's just because his knowledge is more dated - he can work with a few ancient programming languages). My younger brother? Not so much.

>>39775

>Making or running your own networks is hard frigging work.

Small scale is easy. Large scale is pretty hard, just because you have to coordinate everything.

>Sustainable amount of high quality users is imho better than popularity. Enough add revenue and/or donations to pay for the servers.

Some services need scale to survive. So it does matter.

>>39783

Packet radio wasn't exactly fast, but it wasn't modern, either. It could have gotten faster.

Still not going to argue for it, though. I don't think the average user should need a broadcast license to get on the internet, but it was the right idea. They could move data cheap.

>>39788

>you should know it's poor etiquette to deliver single-line personal thoughts on many posts at once

Since when?

>ngage & contribute or don't. Your opinions aren't important just because they're yours

Seem we have an uppity fuck in here….

>I don't know if you're familiar with neoreactionary theory

'ello /pol/, what did the j00s did to you today?

>>39792

What are you samefagging? you're the buttblasted shazbot that started talking shit

If you can't handle the banter then GTFO

>>37615

Well, what about a "this user has at least one post from more than a week ago" that board owners can decide on? It'd be easy to implement (just a cookie, it doesn't even have to carry more data than a date)

Of course, that'd be in a *chan, but on other sites similar stuff could be implemented, as it is on many other sites (date of joining, etc.)

It'd cut down on accusations of "newfag" and "shills", at least a little bit

For the encouragement of OC creation, well, oekaki hasn't helped much, has it? Something could be done to make it the default option, though, or maybe, and this is a far stretch, making it not be quite so bunky as it already is, and maybe even adding some ways to load images.

Seriously, the oekaki applet needs a huge rework, at least in this very chan. On other sites, some nudges could be done? Maybe forbidding old pictures from being reposted (either you get an alternative, or you open paint and change something, and while you're at it you're bound to change some more, to make the picture even more appropiate)

And the rest of the OC that's not limited to images and such? And in other, non-IB sites? Excercise for the reader, hahaha!

One thing, though, is that the font might also influence. After all, if it's hard to read, you want it to be worth the effort. Much like how stuff written in cursive is more memorable than what's written in print.

>>37665

Well, and how will a kid learn to write if it's all typing?

One blackout and he's basically illiterate.

Of course, once the kid's knowledge is bigger, and he has more exigencies on his papers, more emphasis has to be put on typing, as it's way faster and cleaner, and a 15-page essay is much easier to read in such a format. But every kid has to, IMHO, learn to write with pen and paper! And word has come to me that in the US they don't teach cursive any more. What the fuck?!

>>37693

Well, a conflict of interest is much what we're having here.

Problem is, "quality" communities tend to be obscure and unknown, so splitting can't help them. After all, if I hadn't been on the "stupid" boards of all places, I wouldn't have come here.

>>38224

I feel that the incredible obscure discussion isn't necessary. Maybe just a cable network, or wireless but on a different frequency, and with a different set of tools for connecting would cut out most of the fat. After all, who wants to waste their time going to the store to get a cable, or wireless adapter/antenna

I know a cable network would be impractical if you want to connect with people around the world, and you'd probably never actually sell the adapter, instead having to DIY (Which is actually a pretty nifty normie-barrier), but the thought, I believe, is worth considering. A non-standard internet, with more or less the same tools.

This is all a mindfart, sure, but if you want to have an incredible obtuse conversation about stuff that doesn't really amerit it, up to making your own specifications for talking, it'll eventually get in the way and annoy, unless it's well implemented, coming organically into being (much like memespeak or whatever you call the language of this place). But, for having it coming into being organically, you'll have to be a long time (>10 years? or such) helping it grow. And meanwhile, you're open for normies. Like the research paper example, it's a set of conventions that's been developing for centuries! Of course, with many changes, radical ones, but still.

>>38832

Probably a set of wallpapers? If so, I'm very much interested in having them. Please, >>38790 share!

>>39279

Well, talk about an outsider getting angry about a comment not even directly addressed at him

>>39792

>but I'd take condensed and easily filtered bullshit as opposed to long winded rants

I wouldn't :^)

>>39790

>since when?

Since before your time, obviously.

>>39792

>as opposed to long winded rants

Just cause it flew over your head doesn't mean a single sentence in my post, besides time wasted on learning the newfag, was superfluous.

>>39795

>encouraging non-immediately decaying cookies to track IP

>one week being a measure of newness

The sign of a newfag would be anyone who allowed a cookie longer than an hour, especially here of all places.

>>39811

No tracking IP, a cookie. Here at cyber, yes, it's of a newfag, or a non-paranoid fag.

But at other boards, where the newfag accusing is worse (/pol/, /v/, the big ones), nobody would care.

The people who accuse others of newfaggotry tend to be the windows users, people who attack the person and not the argument.

Networking n00b here. It seems as though Meshnets will be the end game for users such as ourselves.

How secure and reliable are meshnets? The idea seems flimsy in the security department. Whats to stop any group, whether it be alphabet soup or state-cucked-network-nerd to generally disrupt/DoS one?

>>39838

You know there's pdf upload here right?

I was going to attach it here for you, but I just read the Bible and OPSEC papers. It's baby's first guide to using the internet. I don't understand why you think anyone would find it useful here.

And they've taken the blue pill. I don't know why there's a cosplay article, but it's got injected trash about gender and respect (it's NEVER okay to ask if someone's single) and there's an entire article dedicated to cyberbullying.

Stay on reddit, shazbot

>>39849

For something like cjdns, it has end to end encryption for all traffic. This would be very secure if it was implemented correctly. As for DoS attacks within a meshnet, this varies depending on the size, shape, structure, and whether it is based around invitations and knowing someone or a public system where everyone can connect to everyone. In both situations, someone could drive by your house and DoS your router or whatever you're using. If the meshnet was setup as a public system where everyone connects to everyone automatically, then someone DoSing the network would have to be blacklisted from each node. If it was a private system, then you probably wouldn't have even let them connect in the first place.

>>39860

If you were a real cyberpunk, you'd be typing in 1337.

>>38652

good post, ignorance is not a binary thing. I'm sure somewhere out there there's a doctor rolling his eyes at us for caring more about hardware and software than our own bodies.

Some people are normies through and through, but I doubt it's a cut and dry 80-20 thing. (probably) Most people have nontrivial intelligence when it comes to something. That doesn't excuse them from turning their brains completely off online but I worry about the excessive elitism I see in communities like this. You know the kind. The "I can into computers/networks/programming and everyone who can't is Stupid™" kind. I don't think it's without its caveats.

>>39878

I found quite dubious equating intelligence with education. If you ask me, intelligence is about the processor, not the storage.

>>40015

the evidence proves you right to a strong degree. It's really not a matter of personal perspective.

>>39521

100% agree

>>39543

facebook and such have damanged not only the internet but all of humanity. It's so hard to convince people of this though. It undermines what is so good about the internet.

>>38164

lol, spotted a normie kid.

>>37467

nothing.

>>37570

do you know what dilemma means?

>>37392

>The Internet survived "Eternal September."

>implying

>>37450

i'm with you man, i know you're not a kid like other mindless idiots on /cyber/ who weren't even born when internet was like the internet they are missing is supposed to be.

it's really funny how you got called a kid by >>39365, a person who uses tbh, a sure sign that someone is a kid.

>>39838

>awaken

lmao.

namaste!

>>46063

Ayyy

this is a placeholder

They ruined the internet

>>51816

This was already established decades ago, newfriend. Lurk moar

>>38927

despite the convenience, overall the internet has, IMHO, degraded human society as a whole.

>>39788

>it's a para-academic field of thought developed over the net in the last decade

>in the last decade

Nigger James Madison and all the rest of those old fucks knew about this two centuries and change ago. That's why they made the the country they built a republic, in a desperate attempt to keep this in check and avoid disenfranchising the marginalized and isolated.

>>51824

don't blame the tool, blame the users