/christianity/ - Christian Theology & Philosophy

>>8569

1

They're not radically different, they're completely in alignment.

2

A gentile is anyone who isn't racially Jewish. In Romans however, gentiles are grafted in to the tree representing Israel as spiritual descendants of Abraham.

The gospel is a message of salvation to any race.

>>8569

> Is a gentile simply someone who doesn't believe in the one true god?

Who told you that?

>>8569

>Why are the messages of yahweh and jesus radically different?

If the messages of God before Christ and after Christ were radically different, then Christianity would be a false religion. But they are not.

All prophets spoke about Christ and this was the main message during the Old Testament. There was also the law of Moses which "was our tutor which was to bring us to Christ". (Gal. 3:24) The law of Moses was such that nobody was able to satisfy all its requirements, so everyone was under a curse, for it was written: "Cursed be anyone who does not confirm all words of this law by doing them". (Deut. 27:26) Technically, the promises of the law are still valid because "Indeed, without regret are the gifts and the calling of God!" (Rom. 11:29) But since nobody could satisfy the requirements of the law, nobody could use the promises of the law. In this way, through the law God taught us that we have to work hardly for God, that nobody could be justified through his works and that faith was required, faith in Christ (the messiah) that was to come and to give us greater and perfect way of salvation.

As for the texts of the Old Testament, "whatever things were written before were written for our instruction, so that through patience and through the Scriptures’ encouragement we might have hope". (Rom. 15:4) While the historical meaning of these texts is largely obsolete, they have also a spiritual meaning, a meaning which was once hidden, "Moses put a veil on his face so that the children of Israel would not see the end of what was passing away".(3:13) And "to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart",(3:15) "since only in Christ does it pass away."(3:14) "But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away" (3:16) because he receives the Spirit of our Lord, the Lord and the giver of life. "With unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, we are all being transformed into the same image," that is into the image of God, "from glory to glory".(3:18)

>>8569

>that pic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam

>>8569

1. They are not. They aren't even a little different.

2. No.

>>8592

Jesus was a jew because he was born in judea. So he preached to the Jews because they were followers of the Hebrew bible. While the gentiles worshipped paganism. Why did he have animosity towards the gentiles at first, and who are the true racial Jews of christ today? Israel is mostly secular so who are God's chosen people in the modern era? I understand that salvation is open to all but is Roman Catholicism the most correct religion in relation to christ?

>>8597

I'm referring to the violence and strict laws. I guess I'm asking saying jesus appeared to be more merciful than yahweh, which is confusing.

>>8576

So is better to be racially Jewish and a follower of christ?

>>8576

>A gentile is anyone who isn't racially Jewish

How can any Christian say something so Satanic? A gentile, as used in the bible, is any white person not descended from Jacob (Israel). "Racial jews" did not exist in the times of the bible, jews (pharisees) were of many ethnic groups. A racial jew is more modern, and is an ashkenazim, sephardim, or mizrahim. None of them are descended from any of Jacob's sons.

>>8633

Drop the character attack in your argumentation

Greek, gentile, "the uncircumcision" are used allegorically in the NT to refer to the races of people not descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The pharisees were a religious group within Judaism, that was exclusively comprised of ethnic Jews.

>>8618

>I'm referring to the violence

We can use even a stronger word, genocide: in Deuteronomy and Joshua we find more than just "eye for eye", we find a law for genocide, for example: "And you shall consume all the peoples that the Lord your God will give over to you. Your eye shall not pity them." (Deut. 7:16)

The law for fierce and merciless war and extermination of our adversaries is still valid, but it refers to our spiritual and invisible warfare against the devils. In the law of Moses we can find useful guidance and wisdom. The key for proper reading of the law is given to those who need it by the Holy Spirit but some things we can find also in the epistles of Paul, in the writings of the desert fathers and other saints and in the liturgical texts of the Orthodox Church. For example the infants of the heathen refer to sinful thoughts that are still new and easy to overcome. The females of the heathen refer to sinful thoughts that we have received for some time, they are more difficult to overcome and they have the power to seduce but with some effort they can be overcome too. The males of the heathen refer to sinful thoughts that have taken root in us so they are already stronger than us. In the preparatory weeks for the Lent in the Church we sing Psalm 136(137) and in particular:

"Blessed shall he be who takes your babies [the babies of Babylon]

and dashes them against the rock!"

Now let us compare this with the concept an ancient Jew could have about the law for violence and extermination. The book of Deuteronomy appeared only during the reign of the Jewish king Josiah and the book of Joshua (at least in its current form) also is not earlier than that. Neither then, nor in the following centuries the Jews had the opportunity to kill people according to this law. Therefore, for a pious Jew this law wasn't a law for killing, it was a law telling him how uncompromising he had to be about his tradition and about the temptations coming from the heathens. So we see, the concept a pious Jew could have about this law was not very different to the spiritual concept we have about it now.

> and strict laws.

The law had to be very strict, as I tried to explain in my previous post, maybe not very clearly. The law had to pronounce as cursed anyone who hadn't satisfied all its requirements while at the same time the law had to be such that nobody could satisfy all its requirements. In this way the law testified that it could not bring salvation. But the law also prophesied about the Christ (the messiah), so…

>>8637

Genocide is actually a misleading word, because it was coined specifically by commie Jew revisionists in reference to ww2

>>8635

>Drop the character attack in your argumentation

What character attack?

>Greek, gentile, "the uncircumcision" are used allegorically in the NT to refer to the races of people not descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

No, they are used literally, to refer to Greeks, and all whites not descended from Jacob.

>The pharisees were a religious group within Judaism

Pharisees WERE judaism, they just renamed it talmudism and then later judaism.

>that was exclusively comprised of ethnic Jews.

Again, there were no ethnic jews. That is an entirely new concept, which I clearly explained to you. Ignoring the response and repeating your Satanic lies is not productive.

>>8633

So what is considered a gentile and jew today?

>>8637

So the passage we wrestle not against flesh but principalities would be the answer? Also what is your opinion on some of the barbaric laws such as stoning etc? I don't doubt the existence of God or jesus, just some of the methods presented seem odd.

>>8642

>1

"How could anyone say something so satanic?"

>2

No, the word is strictly literal is "Greek" (to the Jew then the Greek Romans 1) but is used to mean non Jews corporately

>3

Alt history

Who were the saducees then in your view?

Are you denying that NT era Jews were not all Pharisees?

>4

No you're simply asserting it.

Abraham was "our forefather according to the flesh" to the Jews (Rom 4). That's genetically, a hereditary association.

Are you operating on a different definition of "Jew" than me?

If you continue to be so incredulous don't expect discussion to go on much longer.

>>8646

The word gentile has become corrupted to mean non-jew now. A jew is one of the three ethnic groups that have historically engaged in the satanic rituals and beliefs outlined in the babylonian talmud. That is the ashkenazic, sephardic and mizrahic jews. Three different ethnic groups whose ancestors converted to pharisaism/talmudism/judaism (three names for the same thing) centuries ago. Just as in Jesus time, pharisees/jew are deceivers, doing the work of satan. They proclaimed themselves to be the descendants of Judea so they could claim to be God's chosen people.

>>8649

>"How could anyone say something so satanic?"

Yeah, you still didn't answer that.

>No, the word is strictly literal is "Greek"

Uh huh? What did I just say? In some contexts Hellēn refers literally to the Greeks, in other contexts to all non-Israelite whites.

>Are you denying that NT era Jews were not all Pharisees?

That question doesn't even make sense. Lets reword it. "Are you denying that NT era jews were not all jews?" WTF kind of nonsensical question is that?

>Abraham was "our forefather according to the flesh" to the Jews

No, to the Judeans.

>(Rom 4)

Lying about what scripture says is a sin. You should stop. Judeans were the ethnic group descended from Judah. They have nothing to do with jews, which is a modern name for pharisees/talmudists.

>Are you operating on a different definition of "Jew" than me?

No, you are just repeating the satanic lie that jews are descended from Judah. The Judeans who did not accept Christ were exterminated in 70 AD. As foretold in revelations, and as confirmed by Roman historian Josephus.

>>8647

>Also what is your opinion on some of the barbaric laws

"Barbaric" means "unacceptable in my culture". For example in most countries in the world any kind of death penalty is considered "barbaric". In other countries the death penalty is considered a necessity. In US the death penalty is executed in ways that are least disturbing for the spectators while the hidden sensations of the victim are largely ignored. Muslims, on the other hand, prefer execution by hanging for which it is believed that the pressured carotid arteries cause unconsciousness only in few seconds while the the involuntary movements of the body produce the desired effect on the spectators.

> such as stoning etc?

Christ has given to us the following law: "Judge not, that you be not judged". (Mat. 7:1) No matter how grave we think the sin of our brother or sister is, we are not allowed to judge him or her. There is, however, an important exception to this law: when the sinfulness of someone becomes seduction for the members of the Church, then and only then we are permitted to pronounce anathemas in order "to purge the evil from your midst and all Israel shell hear, and fear". (Deut. 21:21) In this way Ap. Paul pronounced anathema against the incestuous man who was praised by some members of the Church. Analogously, later the Church pronounced public anathemas against many heretics.

There are various crimes for which the Mosaic law prescribes a death penalty. Death by stoning, however, is prescribed only for crimes which deserve public anathema by the Church. It is stoning because in these anathemas all members of the body of the Church participate and say "Anathema (that is, let him be cursed)".

Most places where stoning is prescribed clearly refer to people who could lead astray Israel. Deuteronomy 22:23-29 is more difficult because here stoning is prescribed for rape, that is for something which does not deserve public anathema. The following is the interpretation by St. Cyril of Alexandria. The betrothed virgin is the soul betrothed with Christ through faith by the Holy Spirit. "I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ" says Ap. Paul. (2 Cor. 11:2) If a man rapes a betrothed virgin in the town, that is if a heretic or other deceiver seduces a Christian soul which is in the Church, in the city of the living God, where many Angels and saint tutors and teachers live, then not only the raper but also the virgin shall be stoned because she could ask for help but she didn't. If however a man rapes a betrothed virgin in the open country, that if the virgin lived in a place where she could not be helped by the Church, then only the heretic is guilty and only he should be stoned. If a man rapes a virgin who is not betrothed, that is if a heretic deceives a non-Christian soul, then the raper should pay a ransom to the father of the virgin, that is the heretic will pay to our heavenly Father at the Last Judgment.

In Deuteronomy 21:21 stoning is prescribed for a son who will not obey the voice of his parents despite their efforts. We should obey the voice of our parents as voice of God because their power over us, just as the power of the kings and the Emperors, is from God. (Rom. 13:1) We are permitted to disobey them only if their will goes against the will of God. (Matthew 10:30) In all other cases if we defy them tenaciously after multiple attempts to persuade us, then we commit a rebellion against God.

Read the Targums and notice whenever you see the "Word of the LORD" written, so you'll come to realize that early Jews believed in the Godhead (at least two of them).

http://targum.info/targumic-texts/pentateuchal-targumim/

>>8679

What are the tar gums?

>>8621

>The Bible teaches salvation by faith alone.

Why do you always pretend James doesn't exist?

>>8840

>James contradicts Ephesians

Here we go again

>I'm having trouble understanding the relation of yahweh and jesus.

I think that is comparing apples to oranges. Jesus was a martyr, much like Socrates.

>As well as who and what is considered to be a jew.

I am also not sure where the distinction lies. The consensus seems to be that Jews are whoever Christians think are bad theists.

>No I don't believe gnosticism is the correct answer cause jesus makes many references to fulfilling old testament prophecies and claiming to be the same God.

Schizophrenia is a condition as old as humans themselves.

>1. Why are the messages of yahweh and jesus radically different?

I wouldn't know.

>2. Is a gentile simply someone who doesn't believe in the one true god?

My understanding is that a gentile is someone who believes the same as Jews, but is not really a Jew, according to those who claim Jews are a distinct race.

>>8840

>if I deliberately misinterpret the bible it is contradictory

>check mate christians!

>tips fedora

You have to differ the understanding of the talmudic jews with traditions and their teachers.

They listened to their teachers more than to God and his Prophets.

In relation to the law of Moses

Matthew 5

“You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell. 23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift. 25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Adultery

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Divorce

31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Oaths

33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Eye for Eye

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Love for Enemies

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.