da5999 No.5332 [Last50 Posts]
What's your opinion on Steve Anderson?
Is he a dangerous heretic?
Is he a much needed antidote to the weakening of the Christian stance against sin?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6yCnaQuNCk&t=207s
____________________________
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754348 No.5333
He's a pastor of a healthy church in Arizona. He has some aberrant theology, but he's a brother who is winning souls for God's glory.
I love Steven Anderson.
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777827 No.5335
I really like Anderson, he legitimately cares about leading people to Christ. He leads his church on soul winning missions all over the place and has a zeal for the Lord that is almost completely unseen anymore. We could use a few more like him, people who are unafraid to speak up and love the Lord above all else.
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d530e3 No.5340
>>5332
>Is he a dangerous heretic?
Yes
>>5333
No he isn't, he believes in multiple damnable heresies, such as that the bible is God, that Jesus suffered the torment of hell, that repentance is unnecessary and not part of the gospel message, and that all sodomites are reprobate regardless of repentance
>>5335
>I really like Anderson, he legitimately cares about leading people to Christ.
How can you say that in light of OP's pic?
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80da1b No.5341
>>5340
The only damnable heresy is believing a false gospel. You'd better hope that's all, because you and I are nowhere near history's greatest systematic theologians who have disagreed on a million different issues.
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d530e3 No.5344
>>5341
>The only damnable heresy is believing a false gospel
An essential component of the gospel is not only how the gospel applies to us and what its effects are, but who God is, and what He did. This essential component is why Christians down through the ages felt secure in using words like anathema of men like Arius. But Arius could not have dreamed of the blasphemous magnitude of raising a book to Godhood, or condemning the very God-man to the fires of hell. If these were Anderson's only errors, he would have no gospel.
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80da1b No.5346
>>5344
That's arbitrary. You can use the same line of reasoning to make any doctrine into a soteriological issue.
I had a hypothetical young nephew. He died tragically. He was very zealous in his childlike faith.
After the funeral you find a prayer he wrote his last week of Sunday school: "thank you God for making Jesus so he could die for my sins".
Would you look a parent in the eye and tell him that this boy is in hell for the "damnable heresy" of arianism?
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d530e3 No.5349
>>5346
>That's arbitrary
No it isn't. You lack true faith if you lack the true God.
>You can use the same line of reasoning to make any doctrine into a soteriological issue.
No you can't.
>Would you look a parent in the eye and tell him that this boy is in hell for the "damnable heresy" of arianism?
Do you expect me to take this "argument" seriously?
Tell me this, do you believe Jesus Christ is God?
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da5999 No.5350
>>5344
> raising a book to Godhood,
I'm undecided on Anderson but I'll admit that this part of his preaching really made me uncomfortable and skeptical of him.
That said, your statement isn't quite accurate. He's not saying that the book itself is god, he's saying the words in the book is God. Which while still troubling isn't quite at the islamic level of saying a book is God. I think he's wrong but I don't think he's crossed the line into heresy yet - after all the words in scripture are the word of God, god is a spirit (non physical) so thinking of him as words totally off as it may be the only way we have of comprehending God
As for his statement that Jesus went to hell, that's not uncomfortable to me because I come from the Catholic tradition where the harrowing of hell is pretty common doctrine and is not totally without scriptural basis
That said, my conclusion so far is small mistakes of doctrine or disagreements aren't quite enough for me to break with someone.
if Anderson had denied one of the parts of the trinity or the whole of the trinity or denied the truths of parts of scripture I would break, but so far what I have seen hasn't been enough for me to break
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8c8d4a No.5353
>>5340
>How can you say that in light of OP's pic?
Read Psalm 139, specifically verses 20-22. They have rejected God, and He has turned them over to a reprobate mind (and that's a biblical idea, not just an Anderson-ism).
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d530e3 No.5355
>>5350
>He's not saying that the book itself is god, he's saying the words in the book is God
That is the book itself. That is more accurately called the bible than the paper it is printed on.
>Which while still troubling isn't quite at the islamic level of saying a book is God.
Muslims don't believe their particular copy of the quran is eternal, but that the words are. It's exactly the same
>As for his statement that Jesus went to hell, that's not uncomfortable to me because I come from the Catholic tradition where the harrowing of hell is pretty common doctrine and is not totally without scriptural basis
The traditional belief is that Jesus went into hell to conquer death and rescue the souls of the saints, Anderson means that Jesus went to hell in the same way as a sinner, that is to be tortured and punished.
>small mistakes of doctrine or disagreements
Not a single thing I listed is a small disagreement, it's a matter of eternal consequences. In addition to those two serious heresies, you're all forgetting the matter of his lawless gospel. Nobody can be saved by a gospel that tells them not to repent, that they can feel free to continue living in sin, that they don't need to submit to God as their Lord.
>what I have seen hasn't been enough for me to break
That is very concerning
>>5353
>Read Psalm 139, specifically verses 20-22.
What Anderson said goes far beyond the words of the psalm. Where does scripture say we are to hope and pray for somebody's damnation? How does it not fly in the face of Matthew 5:43-48?
>and that's a biblical idea, not just an Anderson-ism
Nobody believed the reprobate doctrine before the modern era. Least of all the scripture authors.
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777827 No.5359
>>5355
>Nobody believed the reprobate doctrine before the modern era. Least of all the scripture authors.
It's literally in the Bible.
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da5999 No.5360
>>5359
praying that someone be damned is in the bible? where?
I see lots of verses were they are praying for God to kill certain people, but I don't recall seeing anyone praying that a person is to be damned. That seems to be praying along the will of the accuser who desires that men be condemned rather than praying according to the will of the father that desires that all men be saved.
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da5999 No.5361
>>5360
. . . Although that said, he is saying he hopes that Bruce goes not hell, not that he is praying for it, and there have been times in my life when I've been so mad at people that I took comfort in the thought that they will likely go to hell, so I don't know if I can condemn pastor Anderson for that
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d530e3 No.5362
>>5359
Nope.
>>5361
Some other time Anderson said he prays Obama gets brain cancer and goes to hell
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da5999 No.5363
>>5362
well I don't know - still up on interpretation here
if he wants people to not be saved that's a problem
however, when sinful people go to hell, it's not a bad thing, it's an expression of God's justice
also, praying for someone's death is legitimate and there are several examples in the bible so it's still iffy and uncertain on Anderson for me
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bf467e No.5365
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222e04 No.5371
He's a terrible person who gets away with his shenanigans by claiming to serve God.
The one good thing he did was the marching to zion documentary, otherwise he is pretty damn bad.
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ae36e5 No.5373
>>5340
>that repentance is unnecessary and not part of the gospel message
This right here. He preaches that repentance and faith are the same thing, and that you don't need to repent of sin False gospel.
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98cbc5 No.5384
>>5373
But he's right. The repentance that leads to salvation is becoming one of the faithful.
If your salvation were contingent on fixing your works without the Spirit you would be hopeless, because there is none righteous, and even when you do good works they are as "filthy rags".
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ae36e5 No.5386
>>5384
They are the same in the sense that, when you come to Christ you turn from sin. As in, the same phenomenon from two different perspectives. But Anderson redefines repentance to be the same action from the same perspective, that is, he explicitly denies the need to turn from sin and claims that a profession of faith is all you need. However if you're not turning from sin, you aren't professing genuine faith. The need to repent from sin is not works salvation; it's about cause and effect.
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31a247 No.5387
>>5362
>Obama gets brain cancer and goes to hell
Wow
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8a1e2e No.5400
>>5384
>If your salvation were contingent on fixing your works without the Spirit you would be hopeless, because there is none righteous, and even when you do good works they are as "filthy rags".
Repentance is not a work, it is a change of mindset against sin.
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cc4b99 No.5403
>>5400
Sometimes the Bible uses the term to mean the work concept.
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55c615 No.8307
>>5332
>immense anger issues
>wishes for people to go to hell
He's not walking the narrow path, that's for sure
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c0220c No.8315
>>5355
>Muslims don't believe…
Dude nobody cares.
>Nobody can be saved by a gospel that tells them not to repent,
Is he or someone saying that repentance is wrong? I've heard this charge of antinomianism all the time and it always seems to come from pelagians.
Yet I've never seen such things actually promoted. It's clearly just your straw-man argument in this case or perhaps your projection.
>How does it not fly in the face of Matthew 5:43-48?
That's talking about your personal enemies, not of God's enemies.
– 2 Chronicles 19:2
Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.
>Nobody believed the reprobate doctrine before the modern era.
Ok see this has not much to do with Anderson anymore. This is just your rejection of Biblical truth at this point.
>>5400
>Repentance is not a work, it is a change of mindset against sin.
It depends on what kind of repentance it is. There is repentance of sin which is a good work according to Jonah 3:10, but there is other kinds of repentance than these. We know this because scripture also says that God repented at certain times. It couldn't have been of sins.
>>8307
I get the feeling you'd say the same of the Psalm writer.
Psalm 119:119
Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.
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1e76dd No.8330
>>5332
He's a dangerous heretic who occasionally gets it right twice a day like a broken clock. His New IFB is a cult, and is the natural fruit of the old IFB, which itself engaged in cultic shenanigans.
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774a57 No.8683
I like a lot of what I saw of his sermons, but I saw him give a sermon where he did nothing but rail against Catholicism and Orthodoxy. I'm not Catholic but I think saying that Catholics are satanic or pagan is bearing false witness and not helpful to the body of Christ.
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886ebe No.8685
>>5332
He "marries" man with beast. Why are you even asking?
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f8d771 No.8880
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5f1ab9 No.9039
>>8315
>Is he or someone saying that repentance is wrong?
He is saying that repentance is unnecessary. I'm not sure if it's in his famous "bible way to heaven" presentation but I have seen him evangelizing where he explicitly says "you don't need to repent". That's a false gospel.
>it always seems to come from pelagians
<Calvinists are Pelagian
wew lad
>It's clearly just your straw-man argument in this case or perhaps your projection.
I don't even know what to say, I am befuddled
>That's talking about your personal enemies, not of God's enemies.
No it is not (and even if it was God's enemies should be your enemies). You think this because you are committing anachronism by reading modernist notions of love into it. Read 1 Corinthians 13. Love is setting someone on the right path, we love our enemies by praying for them, desiring their salvation. If you hate someone, all the more reason to pray for them.
>your rejection of Biblical truth
Your modern tradition.
>It depends on what kind of repentance it is
The word repentance simply means to change mind, this is why it is used of God sparing the Israelites. But when it is used of us and unqualified, it always means repentance from sin.
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987bc3 No.9098
>>9039
>I don't even know what to say, I am befuddled
Yeah because nobody said that repentance is wrong. Yet I heard someone in this thread claiming this was taught at some point. Again, please tell me who said repentance is wrong or that one should not repent because that is what was claimed. If nobody said this, then it's odd that I'm seeing it claimed it was said. It seems like you're getting this from your own head that just because something isn't "required" (whatever you think that means) that you shouldn't do it.
Which is actually very antinomian of an approach. Hence why I said it seems like a projection of inner antinomian thought onto others.
>No it is not (and even if it was God's enemies should be your enemies).
They are as our enemies. So then a very different category.
>The word repentance simply means to change mind, this is why it is used of God sparing the Israelites. But when it is used of us and unqualified, it always means repentance from sin.
Maybe this is why you're confused. You must have heard that from some man and thought he was infallible rather than prove things by scripture. For instance, Jonah 3:10 clearly shows how there is a repentance from sin, yet the very next verse mentions God repenting and it can't be from sin.
>but I have seen him evangelizing where he explicitly says "you don't need to repent".
So now that I've explained the above, let me just ask a couple of things to clarify this. First off, I'm fairly certain that whatever instance you're thinking of was talking about repentance from sins or rather, from some particular set of sins. But since you don't know of any distinguishment as you said above, this might be confusing you.
Also though, I'd be interested to see what you actually got as far as real quotes of him that you find objectionable. If he was really talking about repentance from dead works (Hebrews 6:1) or repentance from faith in anything other than our Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 20:21, Hebrews 6:1) then I'd be on the same page with you. If you could find that quote it would be a great benefit to us and it would clear up a lot.
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987bc3 No.9099
>>9098
>For instance, Jonah 3:10 clearly shows how there is a repentance from sin, yet the very next verse mentions God repenting and it can't be from sin.
Sorry, slight correction. The very same verse even.
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66c302 No.9108
>>9098
>Again, please tell me who said repentance is wrong or that one should not repent
Do you expect me to repeat myself?
>It seems like you're getting this from your own head that just because something isn't "required" (whatever you think that means) that you shouldn't do it.
I don't care if Anderson says you "should" do it or not. I care that he tells people that so long as they recite a prayer, and say some words, they can go back to their rebellious sinful life and their idols and spitting on God's name and expect to be saved. Because if they believe that, all he has done is increased their judgement. He is decidedly a false teacher.
>Which is actually very antinomian of an approach
The Antinomians didn't take issue with the law being obeyed, they had an issue with it being preached. Anderson objects when you include repentance in the gospel message because he's a heretic. As far as he's concerned, repentance is just for super-Christians. As long as you pray the sinner's prayer, he's fine with you forgetting that Jesus ever existed.
>Maybe this is why you're confused. You must have heard that from some man and thought he was infallible rather than prove things by scripture. For instance, Jonah 3:10 clearly shows how there is a repentance from sin, yet the very next verse mentions God repenting and it can't be from sin.
You are a fool, you know that? I could not possibly respond to this without repeating the very words you're responding to. Was it simply too complex for you to comprehend, or did you just decide to pretend I said nothing at all?
>So now that I've explained the above, let me just ask a couple of things to clarify this
You didn't ask anything.
>I'm fairly certain that whatever instance you're thinking of was talking about repentance from sins or rather, from some particular set of sins
That's exactly what he was talking about, and that's exactly the issue. Sir, might I posit to you that if you believe somebody can be a saved believer and an unrepentant sinner at the same time, you are not a Christian.
>But since you don't know of any distinguishment as you said above, this might be confusing you.
It's like speaking to a child, but worse. You're punching above your weight class, kid.
>I'd be interested to see what you actually got as far as real quotes of him
I don't keep a catalog of damning Steven Anderson quotes.
>If he was really talking about repentance from dead works
'Dead works' refers to sins.
>repentance from faith in anything other than our Lord Jesus Christ
Faith in anything other than God is called idolatry and is one of the greatest sins a man can commit.
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061e79 No.9221
>>9108
Pastor Anderson goes on and on about how he kicks people out of his church for being unrepentant sinners. But, he doesn't know that they're not saved, because only God knows.
St. Paul was saved, but wrote about how he was a sinner. No one is good. The idea that it's possible to be free of sin is almost blasphemy, only Jesus is free of sin. Catholics think in addition St. Mary was free of sin and make vain repetitions and long prayers while scrupulously trying to be like her.
No amount of work or avoidance of sin can cause anyone to merit salvation. That's why it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom. Blessed are the poor in spirit.
I'm a sinner. I want to be saved, I try to avoid sin, but I'm a sinner.
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66c302 No.9233
>>9221
>But, he doesn't know that they're not saved, because only God knows.
He thinks he knows that they are saved, at least most of them. But I'll tell you what I know for sure: that they who live in sin do not have a credible profession of faith, that they need to hear the gospel, and that by faith in Anderson's gospel can no man be saved.
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061e79 No.9242
>>9233
Where does he tell people to remain in sin? That's lunacy, no one could read "if ye love Me, keep My commandments" and think the Gospel says to remain in sin. That's what people who want to buy the Pearl of Great Price with enough of their filthy rags think salvation through faith means, though.
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66c302 No.9246
>>9242
>Where does he tell people to remain in sin?
That's the whole point, he tells them they don't have to leave it.
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061e79 No.9250
>>9246
* you can't merit salvation
* after being saved people still sin
* being saved moves you from one state to another, so it happens at one time, the point at which you understand Jesus enough to ask Him
* the saved are going to try to observe the Commandments and avoid sin
* people who remain in sin probably aren't saved and meme pastor dude kicks them out of his church
what's missing?
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66c302 No.9353
>>9250
>* you can't merit salvation
>* after being saved people still sin
100% irrelevant
>the saved are going to try to observe the Commandments and avoid sin
Exactly. That's completely correct. But if you tell Anderson that, he'll kick you out of his church for works salvation
>meme pastor dude kicks them out of his church
Doesn't matter, repentance is still not part of his gospel.
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869960 No.9359
>>9353
>Exactly. That's completely correct. But if you tell Anderson that, he'll kick you out of his church for works salvation
Bizarro-Anderson perhaps. The regular one would be kicking out the legalists and judaizers who are constantly trying to create checklists of things you must repent from in order to earn and merit salvation (in other words, pelagians,) that aren't in scripture. Crediting themselves with earning eternal salvation via their particular checklist of so-called accomplishments.
And yes, there are a ton of them out there (neo-pelagians) now. I also run into them with due frequency.
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33a29b No.9402
Well, if all you do is listen to his sermons, he's not going to be able to kick you out of his church for living in sin. He says it's important to have a church led by a man with the qualifications listed in 1 Tim instead of just listening or reading the Bible in your living room maybe with some friends.
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036753 No.9405
>>5332
His memetic potential is off the charts. He triggers liberals for being totally anti-LGBT degeneracy (as any good Christian should be) and he also triggers /pol/ for seeing nothing wrong with interracial marriage, as long as both parties are committed to Our Lord.
I would love to see a Catholic priest with his intensity. Whether his theology is right or wrong, no one can deny his love for Christ and righteousness.
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33a29b No.9408
(meanwhile caths are all donatist donatist when you say their dudes who don't meet Paul's standards shouldn't be preaching)
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1331c5 No.9574
The most you'll ever get out of us is is
* Jesus is my Savior
* nothing I do merits salvation
* my sins are wrong
Some people can't get it together to the point at which they can be allowed to go to church. Of them, some deny Jesus in some way or other, and these are aa damned as everyone who denies Jesus, and some recognize Jesus and recognize that they do wrong, and while their works will be burned up (1 Cor 3), there's no way to say they're damned and St. Paul isn't except to compare works.
So the question for each of us sinners is, are we trying, or are we just saying we're trying and actually mocking our Lord?
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987bc3 No.9873
>>9574
>are we trying, or are we just saying we're trying and actually mocking our Lord?
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
- Philippians 1:6
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66c302 No.9884
>>9574
>are we trying
If we are trying, then we will most assuredly be damned, because we are so utterly incapable of fulfilling God's law. For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
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78cbe9 No.9953
He played in role in my salvation - he's not perfect for sure but he speaks a lot of hard truths freely.
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2ee4ad No.11417
His Holiness Pastor Steven Anderson is the patron saint of /christianity/.
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c82208 No.11418
>>5332
His zeal is admirable but he's not a theologian.
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17f204 No.11421
>>9233
>But I'll tell you what I know for sure: that they who live in sin do not have a credible profession of faith
Oh OK, I guess the Apostle Paul didn’t have a credible profession of faith, thanks for clearing that up for us Mr. Sinless Perfectionist.
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5f803e No.11425
>>5332
He is fine but very vocal. He says things we actually wouldn't say.
Also him cursing his enemy is kinda like it too and he unironically demonizes a person properly according to the bible, kek.
Anw he demonstrates everything he could do to win a soul, based chad
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