d344ad No.411
sinless people go to heaven, e.g. aborted babies?
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3d0d60 No.412
yes, aborted babies and children go to heaven
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b5b362 No.413
>>411
Depends on who you ask.
>Catholics and Calvinists claim they're burning in hell
Within a sound theology it's inconceivable that God would not grant them mercy and allow them in his kingdom.
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1931a1 No.534
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
This is my favorite video on the subject
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17a8bc No.536
>>411
>sinless people go to heaven, e.g. aborted babies?
>sinless people go to heaven
>sinless people
#whatisOriginalSin
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441030 No.546
>>536
>what is original sin
an anti-biblical neoplatonic myth
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6e147a No.552
>>546
If you actually believe this, your not Catholic.
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441030 No.553
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342713 No.589
>>546
[btw BO pls disable r9k]
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25bd60 No.4314
Probably not considering that most reincarnate.
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e83eda No.4316
>>411
At the least they go to Limbo (which is a 'part' of Hell).
>>546
Neoplatonists believe in a form of reincarnation tho
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c99ce3 No.4320
>>413
>Within a sound theology it's inconceivable that God would not grant them mercy and allow them in his kingdom.
With a sound theology it's inconceivable that God would not grant mercy even to the worst sinner. The idea of a punishing God is an abhorrent pagan idea. The Christian God is love. (1 John 4:7)
Our sins (that is, our defects) make us incapable to inherit the Kingdom of God. Any sinner is adherent to useless earthly things. He has his passions. When he dies, the sinner loses everything he loves. He is no longer capable to satisfy his passions. Moreover, through the grace of God the sinner is able to see extremely clearly how bad the mistakes he has done are. The presence of God is torment for the sinner. So God sends the sinner away. This "punishment", however, is mercy, it is the best that can be done about the sinner.
>>412
>yes, aborted babies and children go to heaven
This is a wishful thinking. But the fact is that the Bible doesn't say what exactly is going to happen to such children. St. Gregory of Nazianzus says that such children won't inherit the Kingdom of God, they, however, won't be tormented either. St. Ambrose of Optina and St. Barsanuphius of Optina say about such children that they will be in the kingdom but they will be like blind, unable to see face of our Lord.
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3b382e No.4367
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f10581 No.4874
My beliefs are somewhat along the lines of that if a person never had an opportunity to hear of Christianity and repent, they will not be punished.
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1e37e6 No.4880
>>4320
>With a sound theology it's inconceivable that God would not grant mercy even to the worst sinner. The idea of a punishing God is an abhorrent pagan idea.
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7cfe5e No.4883
God has provided for them in some way. Whatever His answer is, it is precisely as just and merciful as the situation warrants. We just don't know how exactly it works, because we're not God. I suspect that those children will at the very least have the same opportunity to come to God that they would have had in life, and that God will not permit their mothers' sin to condemn them, just as He did not permit Eve's sin to condemn us with no way out.
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3c8254 No.9843
>The International Theological Commission has studied the question of the fate of un-baptised infants, bearing in mind the principle of the “hierarchy of truths” and the other theological principles of the universal salvific will of God, the unicity and insuperability of the mediation of Christ, the sacramentality of the Church in the order of salvation, and the reality of Original Sin. In the contemporary context of cultural relativism and religious pluralism the number of non-baptized infants has grown considerably, and therefore the reflection on the possibility of salvation for these infants has become urgent. The Church is conscious that this salvation is attainable only in Christ through the Spirit. But the Church, as mother and teacher, cannot fail to reflect upon the fate of all men, created in the image of God, and in a more particular way on the fate of the weakest members of the human family and those who are not yet able to use their reason and freedom.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html
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d6ce92 No.9844
>>9843
You didn't share the part where they answer
tl;dr the RCC doctrine should say no, history has said maybe, they conclude probably even though this bluntly contradicts their doctrine elsewhere.
The right answer is yes, babies never sinned. They would have if they were born and lived until accountability, but they didn't.
There is an example that forms a proof text in the story of David's lack of grieving over his dead baby.
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0fbde2 No.9846
What would it mean for a 6 week old fetus to go to heaven? We think of heaven as a place you go with your memories and personality (the things that make you you) in tact.
An undeveloped fetus going to heaven would have no memories or personalty and would just show up there knowing know language or what even happened
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0fbde2 No.9847
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d6ce92 No.9848
>>9846
Your conception of heaven is wrong
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0fbde2 No.9849
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1c3acb No.10033
I would imagine so. If this was not the case, it would obviously be the case that we should abort babies so they would go into heaven. Surely endangering oneself is a cheap price to be sure that the unborn go to heaven? Alternatively I think it might be part of predestination, similar to how the Aztecs are obviously in hell, even though they never had a chance of knowing about Christ. Humans themselves are never innocent and only through Christ can gain heaven. This way God chooses to exclude the Aztecs from his city
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d95d80 No.10054
>>411
isn’t a better question, though yours is important too, do women and men who willfully commit abortion go to hell, or can they still somehow get into heaven?
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d95d80 No.10055
>>411
returning to your topic, aborted fetuses, and similar, are martyrs.
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96f94f No.10056
>>10054
Theoretically they could repent. In practice their minds could be dulled and they could be reprobates, but they could also repent.
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d95d80 No.10059
>>10056
i can’t bring myself to agree so easily. if someone by causing a little one to sin is to be punished more severely than a millstone around the neck and tossed in the sea, how much worse then, and surely, is the punishment for a child killer!
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4b58df No.12476
They go into the ground and compost, just like you will, just like everything else that eventually dies.
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569812 No.12494
>>411
Scripture does not say. The only allusion to this topic in scripture that I know of is when David expresses hope about seeing his stillborn son again, so there must be at least some unborn who make it to Heaven. That's as far as this topic can be authoritatively addressed. Anything more is just speculation.
I do need to point out that scripture makes it clear that unborn children are not sinless, if for no other reason than being born of the sons of Adam. Only Jesus was an exception to this because, in addition to His biological "father" being the Holy Spirit, he had no human father. Hence his being the "second Adam" and thus blameless.
Scripture mentions Esau being born with Jacob grabbing his ankle, which in the context of Jacob tricking Esau out of his brother's birthright shows that Jacob was jealous even before he had left the womb. In addition to that, King David, of all people, said in Psalm 51:5
<Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
<And in sin my mother conceived me.
David was not born as a result of adultery or fornication, so what else could he be talking about here but that his very nature was corrupted from his inception? Not that this has any real bearing on your question, but I just wanted to correct you on the idea that any human besides Jesus was sinless.
>>413
>Catholics and Calvinists claim they're burning in hell
I've never heard a Catholic express that sentiment, and in fact have heard quite the opposite. Calvinism has no doctrine on this topic, nor have I ever heard any Calvinist express this view. Stop bearing false witness.
Sage because OP's picture is still gore. Save that for people practicing infanticide.
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