/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

You think the Lord gave us the wrong prayer, and say it is wrong?

Jesus Christ, True God and True Man, is wrong?

Your last name wouldn't be Bergoglio, would it?

>>857168

>Hello /christian/s, I have few question that you more advanced guys might find silly.

No doubt.

>First one: when we pray the Lord prayer, we say "Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven". But isnt the ruler of this earthly world satan?

Doesn't matter.

We are asking that the will of The Lord be reflected here on Earth.

>If anybody could clarify this seeming contradiction to me, I would appriciate it alot.

Nothing contradictory.

>Next question: We pray "Give us our daily bread". The bread is our Fathers bread, which came down from the heaven. We are praying for the spiritual light of Christ, daily, not the bread that fills us physically, right?

That be my understanding.

>Next question: "Lead us not into temptation". Does our Father lead us in temptation? I know we are praying to not be led into temptation, but is the implication that he can lead us in temptation?

Was Christ not led into the desert to be tempted?

Was Job not tempted?

Resist temptation, anon; be the man God knows that you can be.

>May the Christ lighten our path and give us strength, I hope you all have a nice day.

And you as well.

not silly at all, i reckon the concerns you've voiced are indicative of someone who is thinking these points through carefully: perhaps recognising that the model of prayer laid down for us by Christ must by its very nature embody vast treasure houses of accurate theological truth in every line; each word carefully positioned to inform our faithful posture before the Throne so that in turn, God might bestow favour on his beloved

i doubt you'd see the full wealth of this prayer if you voiced it three times a day for the next sixty years, for within its measures there is that very nourishment to the soul it speaks of, feeding us today on tomorrow's bread with a clearer picture of Eternity; and if we borrow from another prayerful model Christ put forth in John 17:17 there is a sanctifying aspect to bringing the Lord's word to mind in such manner, replacing truth for lies and seeing a transformational renewal of the self – all of which is a mere scratching the surface of what Christ has bestowed to the believer through these words

all that to say, good job asking these questions; even if this dark little sinkhole is ill-equipped to provide the answers God would have you know, seeing as most everyone on here is a cantankerous factious git – but you might be better served by bringing such questions to men of faith whom you know to display the fruit of The Spirit such as self-control

there's also numerous, numerous, numerous sermons online about the model prayer, some of which were delivered one line at a time, one week at a time, recognising a harmony in each article with the entire corpus of Scripture and setting forth to draw it out

~

just one wee note, though:

> But isnt the ruler of this earthly world satan?

is he?

we know from Genesis that the promised Saviour would see his heel bruised, but that he would crush the serpent's head in that act, so if the sufferings of Christ when he took upon and within his infinite person the infinite wrath of God for the sins of believers were a mere bruising of his heel, how utterly destroyed, ruinated and mortified must be the mere prince and power of the air ?

on top of which, we have the Lord Jesus declare on His ascension that "all authority in Heaven and on Earth has been given unto me", the King of Kings asserting in this that all that comes to pass is at his decree, so why should we view the god of the worldlings as an ultimate ruler over anything ?

(see Job for a more accurate picture of satan at the beck and call of He who sits upon the Throne – glorious, innit ?)

>>857168

these are good questions anon,

when we speak about Gods will being done on earth and satans rulership over the world as the god our society goes after, its important to consider in what way satan is actually the ruler of the world and what exactly are we meaning when we say world.

The power that satan has on this earth is a spiritual one not a physical one, satan cannot divert a river or cause a tornado, he cant even lift a stone, his power is worked through the hearts of sinful man. Satan works his power through the hearts of man but not through nature, this is why satan has to ask for Gods permission before striking Job down with disease, he doesn't have the authority to have power over nature (the physical world) God however DOES work his power through nature, many bible verses talk about God affecting nature Isaiah 50:2 for example, he causes storms and ends them, remember Jesus calming the storm with words "Quiet! Be still!". So even though satan is the god of this world we have to reckon to exactly what it means to be the god of this world and what the Lord means when he says satan is a "god" . First of all there are multiple uses for the words "this world" you could be talking about the physical rock we are on, you could be talking about the universe or you could be talking about simply all of humanity, this range of meaning of the word "world" becomes obvious if you realise the translation of that word from the biblical greek is "Kosmos". So when the Lord says satan is god over this world he is talking about the hearts of humanity and their civilisation and not the physical world. Now onto the meaning of satan being a "god" we know that there are many gods in this world, even athiests dont say in presupposition "false god" when talking about the gods of greece and egypt and same with the bible because they truly are the gods of egypt and greece, just the same satan truly is the god of this world but just how Ra and zeus are truly the gods of egypt and greece yet are unable to affect even the smallest of physical phenomona so too is satan the true god of the "world" even though he cant affect it.

OP here again.

Thank you everybody who took the time to answer, I truly appriciate it.

On the question about His will be done on the earth.

All comes from God.

He made, and is higher than, all.

Satan is not higher than Jesus Christ.

Satan is the god of _this_ world.

"_this_ world" is not speaking of the earth, but Satan's system that is upon it, the same as bread was not speaking of dough, but Gods kingdom within us.

Gods will comes in light. God is perfect, and His kingdom is within you. His name is holy.

But for Satan,…

The wicked aren't even willed to anything unless God rains on them lol.

They'd be pagans out in the wilderness, carving idols and making strife with trees, if they weren't rained on.

The demons have to hope that the unclean are rained on by God, for in the day of the wicked this is how they even have a house to begin their evil deeds. The unclean house demons within their body.

Compare this to the Lord, who can walk on water the same as not knowing you're naked (like a video game maker using noclip on a map editor :D ), who can just say to the sea "give me a path," and it be granted to Him, parted. He can do all. His very will was to make the earth, and all above and below it.

And He willed that <3

And his spirit, went across it.

Satan being the god of this world is greatly nothing like Jesus Christ being Lord. It's just to say that something was given to Satan.

To help you understand, when all of the earth was flooded, the earth was still here, but _this_ world was not, because that which Satan pries on was nowhere.

>is the implication that he can lead us to temptation?

He can do all.

He made the earth.

Some reminders:

He can make you understand all languages without knowing them (pentacost)

He can walk on water

He can part the sea

He can turn water in to wine, and bread in to fish

He can heal you

He knows what's on your heart before you even begin to put a word to your mouth

He can lead His only begotton son, Him!, to be given for death on the cross.

Think about this. You're leading someone that is PERFECT,… to death.

Your power is so great, you can lead perfection to death.

And just something I thought sounded cool was that he made the earth just by saying things.

Like if I stood in my kitchen and said "let there be Mac and cheese" oh boy yes please.

Like imagine you just say "let there be a Lambo outside" and it is granted to you.

Pretty neat. Brb car sound outsi-

>bread

A fitting thing to remember here is His word.

"I give you all".

By His power and perfection, I believe in His prayer that it can give us all versions of what a word can mean, just as he gave us knowing of them…and reminders for things.

Pray to Him in knowledge of His wisdom, that when you say "daily bread" in prayer, His might may be to work within you, in His kingdom, overflowing you with His holy spirit, and, to fill you with food :)