/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

Matt 7:20

Not sure what it is with Protestants and their hatred of good works as taught by Jesus Christ.

Yes, good works alone won't save you.

But saying you love Christ and then ignore his instruction to love your fellow man is a path to damnation.

It is not that we hate good works; we simply don't mix multiple fabrics in a garment (righteousness) like wool (Jesus' works) and linen (our works). We rest from our works in Jesus Christ because he is our sabbath rest. We trust in what he did for us.

No one deserves to be saved. There is none righteous, no not one, so if you think that your own works plays any part in saving you, you are being self-righteous.

If you imagine there is a threshold of goodness underneath which you can not be saved, you are justifying yourself and believe you are deserving of getting saved whereas others are not. The reality is that no one is deserving, which is why God will have mercy on all as long as they would humble themselves and simply trust in the atonment and sacrifice for their sins that God has provided.

Romans 3 says:

> 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

> 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

> 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

> 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

> 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

> 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

> 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Titus 3:

> 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Romans 11:

> 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work

If you believe your works matter then you do not believe in grace, which means that you are not saved.

Please get saved.

>>856925

Also, the fruit in Matt 7:20 is referring to the words and the converts of false prophets. The point of that passage is that false prophets come to you in sheep's clothing so you can't immediately see that they are evil. If they were evil on the surface then the whole world would not be following after lies.

Fruit in the Bible has to do with multiplication. Real Christians sow the word of God and create more Christians. Fake Christians sow falsehoods and create more fake Christians. We know them by their word.

Genesis 9:

> 7 And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.

Proverbs 11:

> 30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

It's good to do good things. People feel the need to remind others that their good works aren't "saving them" but I've never met a christian who thinks this way. People do good works because Christ did good works and they want to be like Christ or maybe they just want to be rewarded by God.

Which is a bit more interesting. Jesus says you'll be rewarded for giving to the poor but if you give to the poor because you want to be rewarded is that suitable. It's still good to give to the poor but if you're doing it because "My mansion in heaven is gonna have a pool now!" maybe God puts a little note beside your good deed: "A small pool."

But I don't see why there's this conflict between doing good things and having faith in Christ. It's not a guarentee that you will do good works when you trust in Christ but I think there's a good chance you will, and the amount you do will probably depend on your situation and how you feel about it. There's not much more to say I don't think.

But never in my life have I seen someone say "I'm saved! Because I work at a homeless shelter." But good for that person that they do, that's a great thing to do.

>>856828

the faith vs works argument is the dumbest, most meaningless argument that Christians could engage in. The argument is never made to glorify Christ but to oppose some other church. The intent of the argument is to divide, and that's all it does. No Christian church is telling their congregants to go out and sin because salvation is by faith. Every Christian church has moral standards that they expect their congregants to abide by. And no church is telling their congregants that as long as they do some rituals then it doesn't matter whether they have faith or not.

faith v works is just thinly veiled catholic v protestant.

>>856977

If you go out evangelizing and you ask people if they think they are going to heaven and then ask them why, the most common answer you are going to hear is some version of "because I'm a good person." Which shows you that they do not get it. They are not a good person, because there are none good but one: God.

The people who are going are the people who understand that and trust in Jesus' sacrifice for their sins and God to justify them.

>>856978

But those "moral standards" are not necessary for salvation.

Paul thought it was important when he wrote Galatians.

Works automatically come from genuine faith. You don't have to think about it.

You can always tell good faith by fruits.

It doesn't mean "le protestant work ethik" just doing your job well and making buck, while not actively figuring things out how to constantly directly apply God's Word to your life.

>>856983

>But those "moral standards" are not necessary

'Without holiness no one will see the Lord'.

"Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me."

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.'

And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” (…) If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

"God’s Will: Your Sanctification"

While it is correct that is by grace that we are able to keep the commands, as we cant do nothing good by ourselves, if we are sinning it means we are not accepting grace.

The process of becoming holy is God working in us, and we accepting it.

If we die not having allowed for our sanctification and knowing that 'without holiness no one will see the Lord', we'll get problems.

If we are repentant we get purgatory, if unrepentant hell. If fully sanctified we go directly to heaven.

>>857006

> 'Without holiness no one will see the Lord'.

If you are saved then God has given you a new heart to know him. He has resurrected your spirit. That spirit is holy. My flesh is not.

Romans 7:14-25:

> 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

My flesh will wither, die and rot. In my sinless redeemed spirit I will see God.

> "Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me."

We are saved because of God's love and mercy towards us, not our love towards him. None of us love the lord as we should.

> “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.'

The will of the father is that you believe in Jesus' righteousness and not your own. It is by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast.

I have a video on that passage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVCUNkELCjA&ab_channel=imsmarturnot

> And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” (…) If you would enter life, keep the commandments.”

This is a distortion of what that passage says.

Here is what it actually says:

> 16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. 23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Had the rich young ruler kept these commandments from his youth up? No, because then he would be good and Jesus just got done telling him "why callest thou me good? There is NONE good but one, that is, God."

As it is written, there is none righteous. Who then can be saved? With men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

> While it is correct that is by grace that we are able to keep the commands, as we cant do nothing good by ourselves, if we are sinning it means we are not accepting grace.

> The process of becoming holy is God working in us, and we accepting it.

> If we die not having allowed for our sanctification and knowing that 'without holiness no one will see the Lord', we'll get problems.

> If we are repentant we get purgatory, if unrepentant hell. If fully sanctified we go directly to heaven.

Let me ask you a question. What do you make of this passage:

> 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

>>856925

>Matt 7:20

That's talking about good/false prophets if you actually read the whole passage, and not one verse

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

are jesuits more powerful than j3ws?