/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>852653

>protestant "once saved, always saved".

Catholics would call all those mortal sims, explain why that causes the loss of sanctifying grace, and how you have to truly repent, confess, ask forgiveness and do penance if you wanted to go to heave and, more importantly, stop offending the Lord.

>>852653

You have to confess those sins, if not to a priest then to God Himself. If you sin freely because you know you'll be forgiven, you're guilty of the sin of Presumption and have to confess that too.

>>852714

A person who continues to sin didn't accept Jesus as Lord, and does not fear him as God.

The key thing most protestant denominations miss is repenting and going to an apostle to obtain forgiveness of their sins. That's straight out of the Bible, but all the protestant scripture quoters lie about it and say they can forgive themselves or that "God" forgives them and thus Jesus acted in vain when he gave the power to forgive sins in his name to the apostles.

>>852715

So you've not committed a single sin after accepting Jesus as your savior? I believe you just have since I know that to be an absolute lie.

What you mean to say is that a person who accepts Jesus as Lord will not live as though they are of the world. And are you just plain stupid? The apostles are dead, and Jesus never gave them any such power, He said "No one comes to the Father except through me." That means that Jesus died as a sacrifice for us so that God may forgive our sins because no one else can, and no amount of sacrifice we give could atone for our sins. For it is by grace that you are saved, not by works so that no man can boast.

>>852728

>So you've not committed a single sin after accepting Jesus as your savior?

How did you get this strawman from my saying you have to go to an apostle (priest) to confess and do penance? Why do you twist my words wickedly like satan?

>The apostles are dead,

They have eternal life. They died in this life in sanctifying grace, thus are alive and in heaven now.

> and Jesus never gave them any such power,

John 20:23

23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Do you deny the Bible itself? This is red text, by the way.

I shall pray that this wicked spirit within you leaves you.

>>852714

retard

>>852735

>Why are you acting like Satan?

Sounds like you're the one twisting words, my dude. I wasnt referring to that statement you just mentioned, I was referring to your exact words "A person who continues to sin didn't accept Jesus as Lord, and does not fear him as God." This means that you are claiming either that you have not sinned since accepting Jesus as Lord, or that you have not accepted Jesus as Lord. You have only left yourself two options with that, your words, no spin or twist needed.

>The apostles have eternal life

As do all of us who confess Jesus as our Lord and Savior and ask the Father for forgiveness through Him.

>I pray this wicked spirit leaves you

No room for spirits apart from the one I was given and the one of my Savior Jesus. If you view the spirit of Jesus to be evil, I suggest rethinking some things.

>>852737

kys, faggot

>>852738

If you commit a moral sin which is done willfully you really aren't in fear of the fires of hell or worse, not mindful of offending God.

You get back with God by repentance, going to confession, contritely and with humility asking for God's forgiveness.

Most prots don't believe in repentance, avoiding sin, or confession.

>As do all of us who confess Jesus as our Lord and Savior and ask the Father for forgiveness through Him

Red herring. I already pointed out that the power to forgive sins in this life was given by the Lord to the apostles. Again, the Lord did not do this in vain. Stop denying the Bible.

There is only one Apostolic Church, The Catholic Church. Protestants have no way to be forgiven for actual sins save the one time of baptism and even then some protestant baptisms are not valid. After baptism, all the protestants without a validly ordained priest are eventually blacken their souls and lose heaven over sin.

This should answer your question.

Romans Chapter 2 verses 1-9

1Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

2But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

4Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6Who will render to every man according to his DEEDS:

7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

Sola Fide is satanism tbh

>>852742

Paul had a high IQ. This is the same genre of disquisition I communicate to vexatious Redditors.

>>852741

Sin is sin, there are no lesser sins.

>>852762

Two types of sin: actual and original.

Two types of actual sin: mortal (grave matter, willful intent, know it is a mortal sin) and venial.

If you don't know it's a sin, like eating meat on Friday or other day of abstinence, it's a venial sin. But since I just told you it's a mortal sin, now if you do it it's a mortal sin.

If you don't do it willingly, like I did yesterday morning when I was preparing my fish and put some pepperoni in my mouth and immediately spit it out when I realized what I had done, it is a venial sin.

God does not put murder and stealing a dime on the same level. Both are sins, but one is a grave matter, and the other trivial (unless you take the dime out of a starving blind man's cup just to be wicked, then it's mortal).

>>852766

Mortal and venial sins are a thing in your pagan religion, not in Christianity. Do not expect Christians to believe in your heresy

>>852771

God is just, ergo not all sins are mortal.

For example, slander and lies against the Holy Mother Church are a grave matter. If you do it willingly and know it's a lie e.g. know "thou shalt not bear false witness" then you commit mortal sin of false witness, the mortal sin of heresy, and probably some mortal sins against the Holy Ghost.

>>852772

No sins are mortal. There is no sin grave enough to destroy the grace of justification. When a man places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, he is imputed His righteousness. God no longer views him as himself, but as His own beloved Son, devoid of any sin whatsoever, as it is written "Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute sin".

>>852776

Do you really believe God sends people to hell for stealing 2 cents and murder alike?

God is perfect, and thus just.

>When a man places his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, he is imputed His righteousness

I knew a Pentacostal who was bragging about being a pedo who went to Mexico to hire child whores when he was in the army. He said he was saved. When I said that's a sin, he said I was going to hell.

He's in for a hell of a disappointment.

>>852777

>Do you really believe God sends people to hell for stealing 2 cents and murder alike?

James 2:10-11

<For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

>he said I was going to hell.

He wasn't wrong. Repent and believe the true gospel, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

where the winnie the pooh is the anti-catholic/chrtistan

these Jesus suck up cock suckers need to be blown up, seriously.

>>852778

Then why did Jesus give the power to forgive sins to the apostles? Why did Jesus establish a church on earth? Why did Jesus say that the sins that the apostles forgave on earth, are forgiven in heaven, and that those sins held on earth, are held in heaven?

You can't just forgive yourself, that's unbiblical. The Bible clearly states that only apostles can forgive sins, you can't forgive your own sins, that there shall be a church, and that the Apostles determine what a sin is and what isn't.

I don't get protestants who say they believe only the bible and then proceed to mutilate it so they can sin with impunity and need no church at all except to meet people

>>852653

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? "

Romans 6:1-2

>>852771

>>852772

I think there is an interesting dynamic between these two doctrines and they are not mutually exclusive to each other. The Bible says that all sins can be forgiven except one, the denial of The Holy Spirit. So not all sins are equal, however, I think it is good practice to consider all sins to be equal because they all have the same result which is our unworthiness to receive God's favor. You should avoid all sins big and small with the same conviction.

>>852787

Amen.

>>852782

>The Bible clearly states that only apostles can forgive sins, you can't forgive your own sins, that there shall be a church, and that the Apostles determine what a sin is and what isn't.

God is the one who says what sin is, and God is the one who forgives sin, and your pope is not an apostle.

>>852789

>God is the one who says what sin is,

Correct, and God told you to listen to the apostles. You won't. You reject Jesus as Lord and tell yourself you can sin and it won't matter yet Jesus said "Go and sin no more".

All people need the Church, because they sin and only the Apostles can forgive sin on Earth because Jesus said so.

I remember a time before Jesus and the koran.

When there was magic wild and free. When we were all a different people. I remember when we were given the bible and various countries were given other religions. because it was stolen in a flash of a instant and replaced with utter trash that Jesus Jesus christ and god were false gods. That it was all false and they were torturing and maiming our spirits our souls and our magic.

if the truth is. We were just being heisted. pray for your magic to return

>>852795

Jesus is the Son of God, therefore his sacrifice alone is enough to cover all of our sins. I think you forget that envy is a mortal sin, keeping that in mind how could you possibly consider yourself anything but completely doomed if you're honest?

>>852801

>Jesus is the Son of God, therefore his sacrifice alone is enough to cover all of our sins.

Jesus told you to stop sinning. "Go and sin no more". he didn't sacrifice himself so you can love sin more than God and keep sinning. Adulterers, fornicators, the effeminate etc will NOT see the kingdom of heaven.

You forget that pride is the sin of Satan, and your pride keeps you from the One True church.

Also the Pope said if you can't go to confession because of Covid then you could just ask God directly for forgiveness. So he pretty much tore all Catholic doctrine apart with that.

>>852802

>You forget that pride is the sin of Satan, and your pride keeps you from the one true church.

You say with a prideful voice.

>>852804

How you read my words is on you, not me.

>>852803

That's not Church teaching. Church teaching is that penance is a sacrament. There has to be three things: contrition, confession and satisfaction. No confession and no satisfaction (penance) then it is not a sacrament and sins are not forgiven.

This is why you need the Catholic church. There are 7 sacraments.

>>852795

Your pope is not an apostle

>>852805

Your heathen rituals can provide no more forgiveness than the blood of goats and calves. You have your priests and your sacrifices, but we have a better High Priest, who made a sacrifice once for sin, and having completed the offering, rested at the right hand of God to await the day when His enemies would be made His footstool. Because perfect blood was shed in their place, those who rely upon His sacrifice alone and make no effort whatsoever to escape the fires of damnation have nothing to fear, for their souls are not and never again will be imperiled, because God Himself declared them to be the very pinnacle of righteousness, forgiving all their sins past, present and future.

>>852806

Your pope is completely worthless if he can completely up-end a thousand years of tradition and yet change nothing. How can this man provide a greater rock for faith than the scriptures, when even as he changes everything, his followers defy him and pretend like nothing has changed? You do not even believe in his authority yourselves, your actions prove it.

>>852813

A true Pope is literally an Apostle who teaches the true faith.

Please don't call the Body and Blood of Christ "goats and calves". That's sacrilege and will send you to hell. The Sacrifice we celebrate at Holy Mass is that of Jesus our Lord and our God. Jesus makes this sacrifice every day as Mass is given every day.

You are damned if you think you can forgive yourself. The Bible says only the Apostles can forgive sins and you reject the Church of Jesus Christ.

Your problems with Jorge are your own. The faith is what it is.

>>852806

But isn't the Pope supposed to be the infallible voice of God?

And maybe I wouldn't read your words as prideful if you didn't make it so obvious.

>>852836

>But isn't the Pope supposed to be the infallible voice of God?

A true Pope, and if you understood infallibility correctly and it's obvious that you don't, yes.

Pope Francis has many issues that make him a "suspect Pope" e.g. prior heresy, freemason beliefs, Obama's interference in his election, etc.

>And maybe I wouldn't read your words as prideful if you didn't make it so obvious.

Only God can read minds, and you claim to know what is in my mind and call me prideful.

Your every argument is an ad hom at me, you don't explain why it appears you deny the Bible itself. You argue in bad faith.

>>852836

>infallible voice of God?

I find this protestant taunt to be so incredibly hypocritical.

All the 2000 different protestant religions claim divine inspiration of the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete send by Jesus to lead us. But while making thousands of conflicting claims of this gift of wisdom, most of which must be false by simple logic of contradiction, the mock the Popes for having the trait of infallibility.

And yet, had we remained in the catholic faith the world wouldn't be the miserable and wicked place that it is today! For example, it was Oliver Cromwell who committed regicide of his Catholic King and invited the Jews back into England. Another example: the Catholic faith still stands for the sacrament of marriage and against sodomy. Protestants? Serial polygamy, divorce and yes, some approve of sodomy.

>>852844

Just like blaming all protestants for the sodomite protestant religions, the broad brush fallacy is used to smear Trad Catholics with the wickedness of the Novus ordo.

Not sure where you got these lies of yours.

>>852838

Speaking in a condescending manner is the clear marker of pride, no mind reading necessary.

>>852838

Also I never threw ad hominem at you, just pointing out your own hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of your church. And I never denied the Holy Bible, I never would as it is the authoritative word of God.

>>852847

The relevant difference is that sodomite and conservative protestants have absolutely no communion while new order catholics are predominant in the roman church, trads either being sedes or just a remnant in the main Catholic body

>>852831

>Please don't call the Body and Blood of Christ "goats and calves".

The mass is far worse than just that. It is a wretched abomination which ought to be utterly despised by every pious soul, every drop of its wine should be poured out into the ocean, and every consecrated host should be burned to ash in a great pyre, like all false idols should be destroyed.

>>852868

So, everyone until Martin Luther goes to hell because you say the mass, which is straight out of the Bible, is wrong? How does that work? Christianity and the Holy Mass predates Protestantism.

Even Marin Luther didn't change the mass that much.

>>852892

Strawman

>>852866

Educate? All you've done so far is blather on about how righteous you are, and no one is listening.

>>852866

Then why are you in communion with them? The apostle Paul said in 2 Corinthians 6, "what communion hath light with darkness? or what concord hath Christ with Belial?" Just as all other cults, the church, which is congregational, will outlast this just as we predated it. I don't care if your founder was an Emperor of the Roman empire or just some gnostic somewhere, it doesn't matter. We have no communion with that, or with any sodomites, and the church never has. The church has never had communion with them in its unbroken line of existence from the apostles until today.

ITT: Papists employ OP's racist strawman as an argument against the perseverance of the saints.

stay classy romanists

>>852910

Wait, if no one is listening, then you're not listening.

And if you're not listening, why do you say I said I'm only saying I'm righteous?

btw, do you know what an ad hom is? An attack against the person instead of the argument.

>>852912

The Novus ordo take their bread in the hand. often the priest doesn't believe that it's the Body and Blood of Christ so it's not even the Holy Eucharist, so how could I be in communion with the Novus ordo?

Catholic communion was defined in at the Council of Trent, and the N.O. don't do that.

These three posts…

>>852896

>>852910

>>852933

Have no argument.

>>852951

> Have no argument.

for my part i prefer not to give to dogs that which is holy; so when romanists present a racist antinomian caricature of protestant theology i don't see any need to defend, i simply mock them for their lack of grace and move on

>>852962

>i have hate, but no argument.

That's called "cognitive dissonance" because I pointed out your ad homs were not an argument.

What did happen to the folks before martin Luther if the Catholic sacraments were invalid since Saint Peter? You don't say, you attack me.

And you prots don't know how papal infallibility works. Some say it means a Pope can't sin (wrong), some prots say it means a Pope can't ever be wrong (also wrong). These fallacies are taught to protestants are the real strawman fallacy.

>>852983

> You don't say, you attack me.

oh anon, if you don't see that the OP was the initial attack on protestant theology (assaulting a position by slanderously misrepresenting it) then i can't really dialogue with you since you have neither reason nor wit to make sense of cogent argument

thus i simply mock the foolishness and move on, answering the fool in his folly lest he seems wise in his own eyes

>>852714

Even the early Reformers (especially Puritans.. read their journals and prayer books) constantly grieved over whether they were truly elect or not. There was none of this freedom on sinning.

>>852989

Not sure how a red herring justifies an ad hom, but then, I'm not a protestant theologian.

Op's point is true of some protestant religions, but some say it is also true of the Catholics who make sacrilegious confessions like the Mafia who would murder, confess the sin of murder without any intent to give up the sin, and then murder again.

>>852994

>Op's point is true of some protestant religions

No it isn't. Name three.

>>852995

All those who believe in faith alone.

>>852997

Sola fide is not antinomianism

>>852787

>The Bible says that all sins can be forgiven except one, the denial of The Holy Spirit.

When I was an edgy atheist teenager I insulted The Holy Spirit, can I be forgiven? I've actually cried thinking about it.

>>853000

That does not refute what I said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism#Christianity

>>853008

Grave: Yes

Said willingly: Yes.

Said knowingly: No.

So, not a mortal sin.

>>853014

Thanks anon, your words made me feel better.

>>852994

>Not sure how a red herring justifies an ad hom

it wasn't so much a red herring where one leads a reader down a path to distract them from the actual issue, it was a slanderous misrepresentation of a very real position so as to demean anyone who holds to the doctrine of the preservation of the saints

and my response to such a cavil was not an ad hominem, where i attacked the character of the man so as to dismiss his argument; but rather i attacked the character of his argument couched in racist mannerism, to dismiss the man for the wild dog he is, adding that anyone who joins with him in such predation is of the same pack

>>853008

> When I was an edgy atheist teenager I insulted The Holy Spirit, can I be forgiven? I've actually cried thinking about it.

anon, neither the EO nor the RCC can exegete scripture to save their lives i mean that quite literally and instead they pontificate from on high, as if they hold the keys to some secret knowledge… but ask them to cite their sources you get nothing

but you sir, you have the very word of God available to you God's very revelation of Himself to man and if you look at the surrounding context of the verses where we see Christ saying that Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the 'Unpardonable Sin' you can see quite clearly whom he was addressing, and which of their accusations he was refuting

srsly, go and read the entries at Matthew 12 and Mark 3 – in both instances we are seeing Christ cast out a demon, and the Pharisees dismissing this good work as being done by the power of the devil, Beelzebub

now do you know what the word Blasphemy means, or how that word is another way of saying that you slander, malign or give a 'false witness' against someone – that last should sound familiar to you if you know the 10 commandments, being something that God strictly forbids on pain of death

and who were the Pharisees – only the chosen priestly cast of Israel who ministered to God in the temple, where a shadow of His throne was represented by a golden seat of judgement, over which two angels folded their wings

(yeah, that's what the Ark of the Covenant symbolises)

so these Pharisees, not just in front of the people of Israel, but more importantly in a very legal proceeding were testifying before the Judgement Throne of God that the works of the Holy Spirit were being done by satan

do you get what Blaspheming the Holy Spirit actually means now ?

you think you managed that as an edgy teen, were you so theologically keyed in that you knew the best way to defame Christ and damn yourself was to attribute the works of God to satan ?

'course now we get to the real thorny issue where as a child of Adam, you are born with a sin nature which naturally says that everything God does is morally inferior to your own choices joining with the first Adam in choosing his own will over that of God's and what else could defame God more than to say your Creator and Maker is morally and ethically wrong, and that you are right

now that you definitely did do and may even continue to do, if you deny His Lordship over even one aspect of your life that was made for His purpose and though you may not have knowledgeably committed such heinous slander against Christ your Maker, testifying within your heart that God was bad and you were good; you were still committing a crime that can only deserve eternal death, for you rejected the One who IS Eternal Life

and if you remain in such a posture, rejecting the ministry of the Holy Spirit who took on the work of Christ when Jesus ascended to heaven, convicting men of Sin and regenerating the Believer to new life, bringing them into all truth as God requires them to know so as to have peace with Him – then you would be in an untenable position, for you would be saying the Holy Spirit was wrong when he showed you the way to Life

so answer it to yourself, honestly before God; are you now in a place where you reject God's moral authority, and the Revelation of Himself found in the Spirit inspired Word ?

then you will know for sure if you live unpardoned, or have an assurance of Eternal Life

~

oh and as to the idea of 'venial sins' – utter blasphemy

All sin is mortal, else the Holy God would not have had to die for each and every one of them

>>853013

You said "all who believe in faith alone" prove OP's point true. "Faith alone" is the doctrine of sola fide which all protestants affirm. It means justification by faith alone.

The wiki article you linked proves my point, that protestantism rejects antinomianism.

>>853030

TIL "faith alone" means "faith with works" in protestant speech, and Calvinist don't exist

>>853008

Denying The Holy spirit means to continually and knowingly defy God. Committing blasphemy doesn't instantly damn your soul to Hell. If you have converted and confessed your sins since that time, you didn't deny The Holy Spirit, you've complied with Him; even though you resisted at first.

>>853046

You still haven't learned basic definitions. Sola fide is justification by faith alone. Works then necessarily follow as a result of justification.

Antinomianism is what you're thinking of which is a rejection of the need to practice good works

>>853091

Is english your second language? You're misunderstanding me over and over. Is it deliberate?

Quick question are you a confirmed member of a church where you actively contribute to the body or do you just type on 8kun and consider it good works to the Lord?

Can we get a seperate board for papists? I'm sick of these retards who think catholcism is "based" and gonna save the white race or something. None of them have read the Bible, none of them really believe in God.

>>853164

Forgot to add,

Pretty sure it's just the same like 4-5 people btw, but they're incredibly vitriolic and annoying. They spam up good threads with nonsense 24/7.

>>853165

It's one in particular