323e1c No.852295
Annihilationism or eternal torment?
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200e7c No.852296
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0b61c7 No.852301
>>852295
Annihilating torment :D
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4756b7 No.852333
1) This is not something we get to vote on.
2) The human soul is eternal.
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0b61c7 No.852336
>>852333
The rational soul is eternal. Many groups of humans were excluded from that category until the Spaniards raped the Aztecs and made things confusing. I highly doubt most pure Whites at this point in time even have rational souls. Genetic entropy and decay is a real thing and the Bible says a soul only enters a body worthy of it. When things got bad before, only Noah was saved.
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200e7c No.852338
>>852336
>the Bible says a soul only enters a body worthy of it.
You got a citation? That sounds like mormonism
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0b61c7 No.852344
>>852338
You don't know it because it's not in the Protestant Bibles which had all the books kikes don't like removed.
>“Now I was a child of parts, and a good soul fell to my lot; Nay rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled.”
Wisdom 8:19-20
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200e7c No.852346
>>852344
You take this to mean that souls exist before bodies, and you further believe that some races of men don't have souls at all because their bodies are unworthy?
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ed149d No.852349
How about actually interesting hell doctrines like hell being the subjective experience of God's revealed glory by those who hate him? Annihilationism is for scripturelets
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200e7c No.852350
>>852349
Do you choose to follow doctrines based on how interesting you find them?
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d50e9d No.852352
>>852346
Not exactly but those are very interesting points I might adopt simply because I find them interesting =)
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5bcde7 No.852353
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ed149d No.852355
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0b61c7 No.852356
>>852353
Wha- what are you talking about? I'm not a demon sent to torment you.
Stop asking questions, schizotardcelvirginazi. Take your drugs and media brainwashing.
Help, daddy Satan. The humans are tormenting me again. Call the infernal police.
That's him right there officer, the one using critical thinking and knowing things I don't want him to. Thank Jesus that was resolved quickly.
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4756b7 No.852358
>>852336
I have no idea what Church teaching is on that. I'll leave that up to God. Since I don't know, I believe it is best to treat everyone as having immortal souls and not as animals.
Babies who are baptized go to heaven if they die before the age of reason (was 8, N.O. says 14? What happened to all the children who were 9-14 who died before 1964?)
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200e7c No.852360
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0b61c7 No.852362
>>852358
A soul is either permanently rational or irrational from birth. However, sin can still lead a rational soul to hell. God's decisions don't hinge on N.O. but I don't think that particular topic is worth rebelling against the present Vatican for.
>Inb4 a sede calls me an actual demon for saying that.
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10cc4a No.852364
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a29d7e No.852486
>Annihilationism or eternal torment?
Maybe neither?
"Hell" might just be a place and/or process of purification and pruning.
The greek word Kolasis is used in two places in the new testament when referring to hell. Apparently the origin for the word 'Kolasis' is a gardening term that refers to pruning a plant. You prune a plant to make it grow better. You remove and cut off the dead branches & elements, so the plant can be healthy and bear good fruit.
"Corrective punishment" might be a more accurate description than "eternal punishment".
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f20a86 No.852496
>>852486
>"Corrective punishment" might be a more accurate description than "eternal punishment".
A problem with the idea that that is Biblical is what Christ says throughout Scripture.
Matthew 25:46
>And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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ed149d No.852500
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86afb0 No.852512
>>852486
I think this is a real thing but I prefer to call it purgatory. There are people who will always choose evil and never repent no matter what though so hell also exists. I still stand by the number 95% as a measure of how many people fall into the latter category. The sheer intentional evil of the average human is astounding but at the same time 1/20 are pretty reasonable in stark contrast to the general public's behavior.
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6809a2 No.852522
Second Council of Constantinople:
>If anyone says or thinks that the punishment of demons and of impious men is only temporary, and will one day have an end, and that a restoration will take place of demons and of impious men, let him be anathema.
Apocalypse 20:10
>the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever
As much as I would want all people to be saved, that simply won't happen (Matt. 7:13). Christ calls all people to himself, and many of them do not follow (Matt. 23:37). Human evil seperates us from our God (Isa. 59:1-2).
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903bfe No.852556
eternal self-inflicted punishment
I don't know the nature of after-life since I never experienced it, but what I can tell from scripture is that once you are in a state that sends you to hell (mortal sin), and are in hell, you basically stay that way eternally.
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a29d7e No.852662
>>852496
>Matthew 25:46
>And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
"Everlasting".
And which greek word was translated into "everlasting"?
The proper literal translation into English would mean something like "age-enduring punishment" or "an era of punishment".
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f20a86 No.852705
>>852662
The same word used for "eternal life" and "everlasting life" in almost every instance.
You can't object to it because you already said "eternal" would be an inaccurate description so clearly you recognize what "eternal" means. Face it, you have used cheap tricks here to get out of what you don't like. This is because of simple immaturity.
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f20a86 No.852709
>>852705
>>852662
And here is the definitions of the words in question so you can't squirm out of it anymore.
ETER´NAL, a. [Latin œternus, composed of oevum and ternus, œviternus, Varro. The origin of the last component part of the word is not obvious. It occurs in diuturnus, and seems to denote continuance.]
1. Without beginning or end of existence.
The eternal God is thy refuge. Deuteronomy 33:27. (KJV)
2. Without beginning of existence.
To know whether there is any real being, whose duration has been eternal. Locke.
3. Without end of existence or duration; everlasting; endless; immortal.
That they may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 2 Timothy 2:10.
What shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Matthew 19:16.
Suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7.
4. Perpetual; ceaseless; continued without intermission.
And fires eternal in thy temple shine.
5. Unchangeable; existing at all times without change; as eternal truth.
Αἰώνιος, ίου, ὁ, ἡ, & αἰώνιος, ία, ον, unlimited as to duration, eternal, everlasting.
____
PUN´ISHMENT, n. Any pain or suffering inflicted on a person for a crime or offense, by the authority to which the offender is subject, either by the constitution of God or of civil society. The punishment of the faults and offenses of children by the parent, is by virtue of the right of government with which the parent is invested by God himself. This species of punishment is chastisement or correction. The punishment of crimes against the laws is inflicted by the supreme power of the state in virtue of the right of government, vested in the prince or legislature. The right of punishment belongs only to persons clothed with authority. Pain, loss or evil willfully inflicted on another for his crimes or offenses by a private unauthorized person, is revenge rather than punishment.
-Some punishments consist in exile or transportation, others in loss of liberty by imprisonment; some extend to confiscation by forfeiture of lands and goods, others induce a disability of holding offices, of being heirs and the like. Blackstone.
-Divine punishments are doubtless designed to secure obedience to divine laws, and uphold the moral order of created intelligent beings.
-The rewards and punishments of another life, which the almighty has established as the enforcements of his law, are of weight enough to determine the choice against whatever pleasure or pain this life can show. Locke.
Κόλασις, εως, ἡ, (fr. κολάζω) chastisement, punishment, Mat. 25. 46; apprehension of punishment, torment, 1 Jn. 4. 18.
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947345 No.852712
>>852344
If it isn't from the 66 books of the Holy Bible, then it isn't the infallible word of God.
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a29d7e No.852751
>>852705
>The same word used for "eternal life" and "everlasting life" in almost every instance.
But that same word in Greek, is used in other instances to describe things that are clearly NOT eternal. That's the point I was making.
The Greek word I'm referring to is 'Aionion' or 'Aion'. The gospels were not originally written in Latin, so I'm ignoring Latin translations.
It's debatable by biblical scholars as to whether aion truly means eternity or an age (era or eon of time).
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f20a86 No.852914
>>852751
See >>852709
>Αἰώνιος, ίου, ὁ, ἡ, & αἰώνιος, ία, ον, unlimited as to duration, eternal, everlasting.
It's not up for debate.
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63d173 No.852973
>>852295
>Annihilationism or eternal torment?
eternal torment. Energy can't be created or destroyed and our humanity is ultimately the energy that animates our bodies.
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63d173 No.852974
>>852486
postmodern "christianity" rears it's ugly head again. Your assumption relies on the belief that there really is no good or evil and hence no truly evil people. It denies the biblical concept that God has created most people as instruments of wrath, and it relies on the nonsensical concept of universal salvation. In your philosophy, there are no goats, only sheep. You have to be either really young or really naive to believe that.
There are many people that are truly evil all the way down to the core of their being. They truly love sin and hate God. Those people will get eternal torment with no chance of salvation.
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63d173 No.852975
>>852344
>You don't know it because it's not in the Protestant Bibles which had all the books kikes don't like removed.
The protestant bible was created, to a large extent, by catholics. The last time I checked, the book of Enoch was not canonized in the catholic bible, which just shows you that the catholic bible is just as incomplete and fallible as the protestant bible.
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63d173 No.852976
>>852358
>What happened to all the children who were 9-14 who died before 1964?)
What happens to aborted babies? If they all go to heaven then that means only the saints get aborted. Either that or only the ones whose names are written in the book of life go to heaven and the rest get eternal damnation due to no act or sin on their behalf. That sounds more plausible because the bible says God reaps where he doesn't sew and all the humans He creates already have their fates sealed one way or the other before we ever have the ability to choose right or wrong.
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4756b7 No.852978
>>852976
>What happens to aborted babies?
Unless they were properly baptized, which is almost never, they go to Limbo, a place of eternal happiness but not heaven.
Heaven, Limbo, Purgatory, Hell. God is just, so Limbo (for innocents not baptized) and Purgatory (a place of temporal punishment for those who are not punished for wickedness on Earth) must exist.
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4756b7 No.852979
>>852976
By the way, I was pointing out one of the many contradictions in prior church teaching of the novus ordo to show that they are outside the Catholic faith, which never changes.
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6809a2 No.853106
>>852978
>Limbo (for innocents not baptized)
how does original sin fit into this?
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a29d7e No.853116
>>852974
>Your assumption relies on the belief that there really is no good or evil and hence no truly evil people.
Does the bible not place the blame of evil squarely on the shoulders of Lucifer and his fallen angels & demons?
Let's say a man was possessed by a demon and he murdered his family. Who's responsible? The man or the demon that possessed him?
Then there's also the problem with mental illness and brain abnormalities. If a man had a tumor in a particular part of his brain that caused him to do compulsive things, like steal items or attack random people, then is he evil?
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f20a86 No.853139
>>853106
It's not what the Bible says, anon. There's nothing about limbo or whatever in there. Notice he didn't post any Scripture whatsoever to justify the things that he says. He simply did not post any Scripture whatsoever.
>>853116
The Bible says in Psalm 11.5 that, "The Lᴏʀᴅ trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth."
And it also says in 2 Chronicles 19.2 that, "Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the Lᴏʀᴅ? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the Lᴏʀᴅ."
Lastly, in Hosea 9.15 GOD says, "All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."
>Does the bible not place the blame of evil
I don't know what verse you are talking about here, but the Bible says that "all have sinned" and fallen short of the glory of God. It also says that whoever believes not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
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6809a2 No.853177
>>853139
>It's not what the Bible says, anon. There's nothing about limbo or whatever in there. Notice he didn't post any Scripture whatsoever to justify the things that he says. He simply did not post any Scripture whatsoever.
Where do you believe aborted infants go, then?
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7c459e No.853200
>>853177
That is not for us to know.
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200e7c No.853202
>>853177
Aborted infants go straight to paradise since they never sinned. The only reason this is an issue is because you're assuming a neoplatonist import in your doctrine of original sin, taken to mean inherited guilt.
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f20a86 No.853209
>>853177
Job 3:16-19 says,
"16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
18 There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master."
2 Samuel 12:
>18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. And the servants of David feared to tell him that the child was dead: for they said, Behold, while the child was yet alive, we spake unto him, and he would not hearken unto our voice: how will he then vex himself, if we tell him that the child is dead?
>19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.
>20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the LORD, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.
>21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
>22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
>23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
>24 And David comforted Bath-sheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the LORD loved him.
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a29d7e No.853213
>>853139
>I don't know what verse you are talking about here, but the Bible says that "all have sinned" and fallen short of the glory of God. It also says that whoever believes not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
Maybe I misremember my sunday school days, but I thought sin BEGAN when the serpent decieved Eve, and then afterwards humanity became fallen because of that event.
So sin is directly traced back to the serpent, aka Satan. Humanity became corrupted by Satan, turning them into sinners.
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50bbe4 No.853220
The Bible doesn't actually have much to say on the subject of Hell. It mentions a lake of fire and gnashing of teeth, so I guess it's that.
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f20a86 No.853225
>>853213
Nothing you said overturns my point.
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