/asatru/ - Asatru / Heathenry / Paganism

>>8916

Yeah, this is pretty basic level "esotericism"

read some von list and get back to me

one of the things list talked about was that the secret to valhalla is that it represents reincarnation; a privilege given only to those who know the best way to die.

>>8917

Didn't Guido von List either filter Heathenry through a Hermetic Mysteries-esque worldview or outright make up stuff?

Besides, one interpretation of Valhalla was that it was a metaphor for the mass graves that were dug and filled in the aftermath of a battle, with the wives burying their husbands being "Valkyries." (Though I also remember Valkyries originally being a far more primal and terrifying force before they evolved into the warrior maidens on white horses we know today.)

Then with syncretism with Christian influence, it became an entirely separate spiritual realm in order to comfort those who could not recover the bodies of their fallen relatives due to possibly being buried in a mass grave in a foreign land.

The original Heathen worldview had no concept of completely separate spiritual realms that one separated from their body to go to upon dying. You can see this in how bodies were buried with items, and how bodies were buried near homes or even under homes, so that deceased ancestors could be nearby protective forces. This included an instance in which a renowned chieftain's body was cut up into pieces, with each piece buried in a different village so that as many could benefit from his protection as possible,

Only when Christianity began mingling with with Heathenry, did it bring the Abrahamic/Semitic concept of entirely seperate spiritual realms with it.

Sources:

http://www.heathengods.com/library/road_to_hel/road_to_hel.pdf

http://heathengods.com/library/bil_linzie/after_life_bil_linzie.pdf

http://heathengods.com/library/bil_linzie/germanic_spirituality.pdf

The last two links and this link in particular:

http://www.angelfire.com/nm/seidhman/reincarnation2.pdf

Indicate that archaeological evidence for a Heathen belief in reincarnation is sparse. If it did exist, at best, it is not what we think of in terms of the modern concept of reincarnation, and at worst, is completely blown out of proportion by the Wicca/New Age movement.

>>8916

>>8917

Also, what is the more deeper level esoteric interpretation of Odin's attainment of the runes?

>>8920

An enlightening interpretation.

So you too agree, as well, that there is a strong element of the theme of the power of the written word throughout Odin's acquiring of the runes?

I'm curious if there have been academic writings that confirm or at least potentially reinforce this notion. While I personally feel a strong pull towards this interpretation, I am unaware of any research papers or the like that shed more light on this.

So I was thinking about Frigg and Freya, how they are different yet obviously very similar. I remembered reading somewhere that it is theorized that they were once the same goddess, but became divided and more specialized for some reason. Frigg becoming a goddess associated with traditional domestic duties, while Freya became more of a goddess of the wild.

My research directed me to the likes of Perchta, the White Women, Hulders, Frau Holle and Holda, which I think are pretty obvious to most, as being earlier forms of Frigg/Freya:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perchta

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wei%C3%9Fe_Frauen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulder

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frau_Holle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Hulda

Nevertheless, I stumbled across this page, which had a particular revelation that, quite frankly, floored me:

http://www.tourmycountry.com/austria/perchtenpagancustom1.htm

"Traditionally, Frau Perchta is believed to be a god-like creator half man, half woman, but usually displayed in its female manifestation. She appears on Earth on the turning point between the old and the new year (winter solstice, matching with Christmas and the Julfestival in Scandinavian countries). Frau Perchta represents the dual male/female deity and is accompanied by all sorts of evil spirits of the winter."

Frau Perchta being both male and female (or half male, half female) brings up a couple of points of speculation to mind:

1. Could Hel being half alive, half dead, be descended from this concept?

2. Could the twins relationship of Frey and Freya, just be a latter/corrupted version of the male/female duality of Frau Perchta, and thus, not only are Frigg and Freya a hypostasis of each other, but Frey and Freya as well?

Also of note, is the concept of the goddess of the wild in the specific role as initiator:

http://www.theoddgods.com/deities/perchtaberchta/

"Belly-Slitter/Initiatory Aspects

One of the common motifs around Perchta is that of the belly slitter, punishing people who betrayed cultural norms. Motz notes that Perchta seems to have aspects of an educator and she wonders (I as well) if these themes weren’t originally related to an initiation of some sort.

Motz notes “Stories of the education of the young by a superhuman being, especially if it takes place in the wilderness, bring to mind the practices of puberty initiation of primitive societies. In these, separation from parental dwellings and experiences inflicted by superhuman forces are essential for the spiritual second birth and for gaining an adult status. … The recurrent tale of Perchta’s opening and refilling of human stomachs appears to be an initiatory motif. … The refilling of a body with a new substances obviously takes place only in initiatory dreams … Mutilated men and men whose bodies have been cut so that their intestines trail behind are noted in descriptions of the wild host which is so frequently headed by the goddess.” Maybe these mutilated individuals are supposed to represent those who somehow failed initiation.

It seems that for women, Perchta’s initiatory roles would be centered around spinning, and for men, it would be involved in the perchten processions – at first becoming personifications of wild entities, and later appearing in the costume of the region, representing the state of young adulthood they were aspiring to.

Interestingly enough, there is a similar incident in Laxdaela saga, in which a character experiences a vision where a woman comes to him, cuts him open, and replaces his innards with brushwood. The woman turns out to be his guardian idis and did this as protection; the next day he is mortally wounded in battle and thought to be dead. However, he’s fine the morning after that, and says that the woman came back to him in the night and put his entrails back."

Which dovetails nicely with this video:

>>9316

Which is essentially of preview of this dissertation paper - "The Maiden with the Mead: A Goddess of Initiation in Norse Mythology?":

https://www.duo.uio.no/bitstream/handle/10852/23958/18497.pdf?sequence=1

I will be reading the above further for more info.

>>9659

Also forgot about Waelburga more than likely being a corrupted version of a Germanic goddess:

http://www.friggasweb.org/walburga.html

>>8919

It's a spiritual death and rebirth of sorts. More knowledge/power is attained, so the old, weak self "dies" and is replaced by a new self that has knowledge and power you didn't previously posses. It's also one of the places where the christcucks nicked their crucified "saviour" from, as well as being "born again".

Does anyone have an explanation for the number of einhärjar that will exit odins hall at once being the exact number of proposed years of the kali yuga?

>>9659

Perchta and Holle show how incredibly complicated things are. Here is something from a German source:

>The Bercht-Woman (Frau means woman) is the shining woman; we saw, that she is clothed in shining white linen; so it is Frigg, who today still wanders around many castles as "white woman" and is honored as the ancestress of some royal lineage (Fürstengeschlecht); she appears warning her latest offspring, when danger is imminent (for example when an offspring will die, whereby the else white woman apears black or half black; - a memory of Hel as the foundation of Frigga) or when serious crimes were committed.

Considering her heavy connection with spinning, the norns also come to mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Spinners

>She appears on Earth on the turning point between the old and the new year

>She was known as a goddess who oversaw spinning and weaving, like myths of Holda in Continental German regions.

>she was sometimes the leader of the Wild Hunt

Fucking hell, so much stuff comes to mind with this. Is Perchta basically the female part of the male Wotan, as they both are the heads of the wild hunt? Does Wotan's knowledge of Seiðr come from this duality? Is that why they are married, to show them as a unit? Is in the end everyone basically a facet of each other? Pls.

Maybe you all can help me with this. My issue is somewhat related.

I'm having an issue finding a reliable and white culture based esoteric asatru. It all seems to lead back to hindu, theosophic, fremasonic, judeo-christain, or thelemic sources.

The esoteric hitlerism and Hindu connection to asatru is usually based through indo-european heritage. Once we concede the benefits of the indo connection, we are including Germanic, Greek, Celtic, Indian sources to out heritage. This takes us further from a white heritage than closer.

A larger issue, is that as soon as we get into the esoteric aspects of Asatru we run into a constant stream of hebrew and Christian influences. The Hindu connection is based largely on Himmler who wanted to set up a new knights templar which is Christian. The Aryan occultism is based largely in Arisosphy (Thule, Vrill, etc.) which is drenched in freemasonry (Jewish) and theosophy. Von list is an interesting source but he mostly draped asatru over a Blavatsky system of belief, which is Gnostic, platonic, and Hindu based. Stephen flowers is an important Germanic occultic source but he is a prime offender of mixing Crowley (who's beliefs are Jewish occuktism draped with Egyptian symbolism) with asatru so he is largely worthless.

Brothers, where can I find a deep effective esoteric system of asatru magic that is not rank with the slime of freemasonic, judeo-christain, Hindu, telemic, or platonic elements. At this point all I can find is nothing in the way of practical occultism. Please help a lost brother searching for a depth of spirituality in white heritage.

>>10604

>>10603

To be quite frank, there isn't one that we can .reliably point you in the direction of......yet

That is why, this summer, one of the major goals of the pdf archive project we have going, is to go through esoteric materials from all over the place, including Vrill, and even /fringe/. We hope to comb through and separate the wheat from the chaff, and essentially attempt to reconstruct an authentic, and coherent Asatru oriented esoteric system.

Please keep an eye on this thread for future developments in that area: >>9731

If you have any materials and/or knowledge that can help us in this endeavor, please do not hesitate to share.

>>9706

TGGI

In more modern terms, the journey of Odin has parallels with the "crossing the abyss" sought by Thelemites, which is a metaphorical death and rebirth as expressed in the ancient Greco-Egyptian formula of I.A.O.

Esotericism can hardly be reclaimed in the way it may have existed once a thousand years ago as it is secretive by nature and probably varied wildly among the many little groups practising it that way.

Do modern Asatrus even want to be esoterics is the question?

Pondering over very specific hidden meanings in small circles which may inevitably absorb some newage or /fringe/ elements as you dont easily make up a new spiritual current from a few stories and your independent mind alone without borrowing seems like a road to endless fragmentation and obscurity.

On the other hand, if you worship deities, people will call you out as a LARPer when its by practise alone. The moment you come out with deeper independent thoughts about it you drift into esotericism which is often not taken seriously as well. (Often for good reason)

Reading about the definition of Esotericism it makes me wonder if there even is a way to be conpletely non-esoteric about it while still having a faith that is not ritualistic only and can be understood by outsiders (which seems to be among the first steps to respect).

>>14469

>hurrr we know nothing about presents aryan religion

>here's some sourceless funfacts about presents aryan religion

Ok I can spend some of my free time arguing why you are wrong, you seem like a smart gu-

>Valhalla is Christian ! Hurr only Christians believe in afterlife, just ignore elysium from Greco-Roman myth and the fact that "Heaven" is linguistically based on haven, a germanic word