/asatru/ - Asatru / Heathenry / Paganism

>>13440

>There's a fine line between keeping a firm grip on your women, and stoning rape victims. Is that a line we want to cross?

It depends.

Do you mean actual rape? i.e., the forcible abduction and penetration of an unwilling participant?

Or "date rape", which is basically shorthand for "drunk sex with a guy I honestly shouldn't have even been talking to"?

Because the former is extremely rare, usually committed by shitskins, and was basically non-existent in Heathen-era Europe (and severely punished when it did happen).

Yes, I can understand why you'd be fearful for your chastity when living in a (((diverse))) country like Sweden or America, but that's simply not a problem that ancient Heathens had to deal with.

And date rape isn't real rape. It's called having consequences for your actions.

>>13515

>And date rape isn't real rape. It's called having consequences for your actions.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I said "Islam-tier."

>Oh, you got raped at a party? Should have had your hair covered, kaffir :^)

This is what you sound like.

>>13517

If you're drunk, the other person is drunk or other wise intoxcated/inhibited and you both go off to have sex and then the woman regrets it that's date "rape" if you're at a party and he drags the woman off and forces himself upon her then that's rape.

The first one is two adults who got drunk and one regrets it come morning. The second is legitimate rape. There is a difference

>>13517

Presumably we're talking about a situation where a woman get's so drunk she cannot consent in any meaningful sense of the word. In this case I'd say it's not their fault, per se.

Let's say I, a man, withdrew all my life savings and put it in a huge burlap sack with a dollar sign stenciled on it. Then I decide to take a leisurely stroll through the ghetto at 2 AM. Is it my fault if I get beaten up and robbed? Not really, the criminals are still responsible. But I don't think I'd deserve much sympathy.

This seems obvious to me, and so I don't do something like this. But we've betrayed our women by not teaching our daughters to be safe. We tell them that they have a gods-given right to get pass-out drunk and not be touched by any scum, and if they do, it's society's fault for not teaching the scum to not be scum. It would be laughable if it wern't so tragic.

>>13522

Also this. If a woman is so drunk she can barely move or speak coherently, it's definitely rape.

The problem is the woman who gets tipsy and sleeps with a guy she already likes. Then other women call her a whore and she accuses her partner of raping her in order to save face. This is not rape.

>>13587

1. Not actually an asatruar. For right now it's just curiosity.

2. If you both get stone blind drunk then it's probably not rape.

3.asking just how drunk both parties were is a pretty important detail to know before you go and destroy someone's life.

4. You can also go ask any anon on /pol/ and they'll probably say something similar

>>13588

>Not actually an asatruar. For right now it's just curiosity.

Me too. I'm actually an ex-Muslim, which is probably unusual in the Asatru community.

>asking just how drunk both parties were is a pretty important detail to know before you go and destroy someone's life.

I dare you to walk into a women's march and say that.

>You can also go ask any anon on /pol/

Really not helping your case, here.

>>13587

If you think hyper-masculinity and "boneheads" is the biggest problem the white race has right now youre a fucking moron

I feel bad for you and think rapists should be punished severely, but you have to understand that alot of whores have destroyed the meaning of the word "rape". Every girl ive met who claimed she was raped was also by major coincidence a gigantic whore who was known for sleeping with unsavory people

Also if youre not Asatru yourself (like you stated) why are you saying "No way in Helheim" like a fucking dork who just started reading thor comics

you reek of /christ/ shill and whore

>womens march

who the fuck cares

>ex-Muslim

INTO THE BOG

>>13587

more reasons you reek of shill and whore to me :

your arguments are very emotion based and remind of the sorta things my ex girlfriend used to say to me EG "I dare you to walk into the womens march and say that"

What the fuck does that mean exactly and how is it a counter to the argument? Hey, I dare you to walk into the middle east with no clothes on. When you get gangraped we will know the muslims have the superior argument

>Yeah, see, women who have been raped don't like it when you ask all these prodding questions.

too bad, tell that to a judge or a police officer questioning a girl whos been raped. you remind me of all those girls that wanted rape to be an instant arrest crime with no trial or evidence required because Kesha said it.

>EX-MUSLIM

do I really need to say anything to this? Although i must admit im curious why the fuck are you here? Youre either an arabic girl (bad news, white gods dont like you) a white whore who converted with her muslim boyfriend (white gods REALLY dont like you) or some kinda idiot who actually converted to islam on their own vocation , Im interested to hear which

>>13587

>women who have been raped don't like it when you ask all these prodding questions

Well I am sorry to upset them, but a charge such as rape needs to be fully investigated and not a single stone left unturned. This is because I believe the punishment for it needs to be severe, and you can't just hand it out or avoid it based on skimming the surface or taking one party at their word.

You might not like it, but in the long run it would be far more beneficial to womankind.

>>13589

>I dare you to walk into a women's march and say that

I'd just get earplugs to block out the higher ranges of shrieking.

>>13598

into the bog it goes

and no, the religion is not called asshattrue. thats a name invented by that icelandic guy that claims all the credit for reviving it, despite it clearly have resurgent movements in the nazi party and earlier in german nationalist movements (WOULDNT WANNA BE RACIST HERE WOULD WE?)

the true name of our religion is Heathenry, it is what they called it themselves and what the Christians first called us. Know what Heathen means? Its latin for "Goyim" or "gentile" and refers to the tribal blood religion of the gentiles. strange that the name of a religion would also be the name of a race huh? kinda like how Shinto japanese dont let gaijin convert to their religion, or the same with jews. the point is that Heathenry is a tribal religion so yes the gods care very much about your "color". I dont think youve read too much of the Eddas considering if you did , you might have read the Rigsthula where the God Heimdall establishes the hierachy of mankind with blondes at the top, redheads in the middle and black hairs and nonwhites at the bottom. If that doesnt convince you, plz read the Heimskringla and about the Nordic rituals, especially regarding their kings, and how only "those of the race of Yngvi" were allowed to participate in most rituals, and were the only stock allowed to be kings.

now please tell me why the norsemen would have tolerated you being a coalburner? I know you like to live a little fantasy life where all the vikings are just like Ragnar in that Vikings show, but no, they would not let you have sex with their slaves or offer you mushrooms. they would find that are an unsavory whore and either make you a sex-slave or just toss you into a bog to drown.

ive also noticed this trend among alot of wiccatru and faggot pretender pagans; they tend to say "NOTHING IN THIS PARTICULAR BOOK SAYS SO!!!" and ignore all other religious texts from the same culture, and COMPLETELY ignore cultural and historical context. what does it matter that the germanic tribes put faggots and whores to the death? it doesnt say anything about that in the prose edda clearly it means nothing. if we took this same approach to christianity it would be fucking insane

you should also know there is no evidence runes were used for divination (Tacitus is the only person that claims they were, and he was the same guy who claimed germans would throw faggots into bogs and disdained any kind of sexual uncouthness, if you want to LARP with your plastic runestones you bought on ebay youll have to kill some queers too) and also that witches were always viewed with suspicion in germanic culture even before christian times. germanic magic isnt something to be trifled with you stupid fool. go read the Jomsviking saga and Njals Saga if you really want "magical systems" (most of them involve blood sacrifices and appealing to harsh war deities with grim offerings, I dare you pussy )

>The gods don't care what color me or my boyfriend is, nowhere in the Eddas is this even implied. The religion is called Asatru, not Nazitru.

the butthurt and denial makes it obvious that youre a coalburning whore who regrets wasting her virginity

>>13601

>you might have read the Rigsthula where the God Heimdall establishes the hierachy of mankind with blondes at the top, redheads in the middle and black hairs and nonwhites at the bottom

I have brown hair and hazel eyes, where does that put me? :t

I have a very Anglo-Saxon phenotype. But I'm also 1/4 Norwegian.

>>13601

>kinda like how Shinto japanese dont let gaijin convert to their religion, or the same with jews

Actually a lot of Jewish sects allow for non-Semitic converts. One of my best friends, who is white and transgender, converted to Judaism. It's a very accepting and modern faith, one I feel we could learn a lot from.

>now please tell me why the norsemen would have tolerated you being a coalburner?

They wouldn't have. But that was then and this is now. Look at how much Christianity has changed since the middle ages; they don't burn witches or stone adulteresses anymore. Their religion has changed with the times. Their religion was willing to undergo reform. And we should, too. Because anything that doesn't adapt will die. It's simple Darwinism; the organism best suited for survival, is the one most adaptive to change.

"Nothing dies unless it is moribund…" -Adolf Hitler

You hear that? That's the sound of your white supremacist idol calling you a dumbass.

>I know you like to live a little fantasy life where all the vikings are just like Ragnar in that Vikings show, but no, they would not let you have sex with their slaves or offer you mushrooms. they would find that are an unsavory whore and either make you a sex-slave or just toss you into a bog to drown.

I have no delusions that the Vikings were nice people. I'm saying that that's our history; it's not necessarily something we should be trying to emulate. Do you think Shintoists all strive to act like historical samurai, with their toxic levels of pride and wrathfulness?

>ive also noticed this trend among alot of wiccatru and faggot pretender pagans; they tend to say "NOTHING IN THIS PARTICULAR BOOK SAYS SO!!!" and ignore all other religious texts from the same culture, and COMPLETELY ignore cultural and historical context. what does it matter that the germanic tribes put faggots and whores to the death? it doesnt say anything about that in the prose edda clearly it means nothing. if we took this same approach to christianity it would be fucking insane

Christians DO take that same approach to their religion, though. I don't see any Christians trying to reconstruct the culture of 1st century Palestine. Yes, historical Heathen culture had different norms from our modern one, but that doesn't mean Heathenry is incompatible with modern humanistic principles. We need to remember the spirit of the faith; the Heathen way is to strive toward honor. Racism and homophobia aren't honorable.

>you should also know there is no evidence runes were used for divination (Tacitus is the only person that claims they were, and he was the same guy who claimed germans would throw faggots into bogs and disdained any kind of sexual uncouthness, if you want to LARP with your plastic runestones you bought on ebay youll have to kill some queers too) and also that witches were always viewed with suspicion in germanic culture even before christian times. germanic magic isnt something to be trifled with you stupid fool. go read the Jomsviking saga and Njals Saga if you really want "magical systems" (most of them involve blood sacrifices and appealing to harsh war deities with grim offerings, I dare you pussy )

Men in every civilization have feared the power of the witch. And I know that, among Norse men, magic was viewed as a cowardly and "womanly" practice. But, it's a calling. Nobody becomes a witch because they want to; you pretty much have to be born one.

And my runes are made of wood, not plastic. :)

>>13601

>if we took this same approach to christianity it would be fucking insane

It would be called "Protestantism." Or perhaps Orthodox Judaism. Semites and their brethren are obsessed with the written word and give almost zero shits about context or actual meaning.

As far as racemixing and degeneracy go, it's on the wiccatru to prove it is acceptable. Until they can show us an example of the ancient Germanics accepting it, we can assume it was reviled (even without Tacitus et al) because that is the human norm.

An interesting paper on the aberrations of the modern mind:

http://www2.psych.ubc ca/~henrich/pdfs/Weird_People_BBS_final02.pdf

>>13608

>One of my best friends, who is white and transgender, converted to Judaism.

I officially declare this a ruse cruise.

>>13610

Yes, we get it, you're a bigot. There's no need to keep reemphasizing.

>>13608

>saying anything positive about Judaism

youre new here arent you Moshe? youll have to be more subtle than that, I can smell the bagels from my screen

>>13606

Tbh ive always taken the Rigstula to be more metaphorical than an literal look at Nordic racial cosmology, many Kings in Norway were named "The black" in reference to them having black beards (or probably cuz they was KANGZ)

however the mere fact the norsemen would use hair color and skin tone (the blond king-children of Heimdall are said to have pure white skin while the middle-children have ruddy tones and a tan) as an analogy for societal structure is pretty telling about how "nonracist" and tolerant they were

this "girl" is really starting to sound like a troll or a ruse to me given how retarded her arguments and the fact she srsly thinks sandniggers can become heathens

>>13608

>quoting Hitler with one breath and praising Jews and "cultural progressiveness" in the next breath

KYS whore

>>13615

>LARPing

yeah this is a /christian/ faggot

>>13615

here you go

http://queerpagans.tumblr.com/

>>13616

>missing the point

I quoted Hitler because I figured he's someone you might identify with.

One of the first rules of persuasive speaking, is to know your audience. Is this a social skill you don't have?

>>13619

You said you were leaving already you dumb slut are you gonna show us your tits now or what?

Also as the OP of this thread can I just ask how exactly a thread made for compiling resources and knowledge turned into some dumb whores attention blog? im too lazy to scroll up and see whatever her first retarded post was, can mods just ban her for derailing plz

>>13601

>icelandic guy

Hey Sveinbjörn was a pretty cool guy (his successors aren't though) but I agree that List deserves a lot more recognition than he currently gets.

>heathen is latin for goyim

It's actually from the Saxon 'hæþen' meaning "people of the heath" which was used to refer to the country folk who hadn't become Christian yet.

The term was later adopted by several Germanic peoples including the Heathen Norse, in Norse the word 'heiðinn' literally means "honorable" and "honest" so I think it was a pretty good pick.

>>13610

>>13617

Yup

>>13623

Sorry I dont know much about him tbh, all I know is most of the Icelandic Asatru community is shit so I assumed

is he the same guy that wanted to record the entire poetic edda in skald form? if so then hes ok

>>13622

Look to these three posts for context: >>5111 >>9417 >>13437

Basically some leftist wiccatru got all cunthurt because another anon said non-virgins shouldn't be allowed to marry.

>>13619

>One of the first rules of persuasive speaking

Yeah, it's also a derivative of Alinsky Rule #4. Nice try, though.

>>13622

Sorry, bro. It's funny how libshits only take like, two prods before they melt down and show their true colors. Sometimes even less than that.

But let's get this thread back on track. How goes the project?

>>13638

should be noted that Njord was from the Vanir tribe, was heavily implied to have fucked his own sister and was defending the incestuous relationship between Freyr and Freyja

does not represent general heathen beliefs , Njord was a flawed god, like most of them. I always sorta thought the main point of the Lokesanna was pointing out the flaws inherent in each god , which is an inherent part of their archetype. taking every single word of a deity from mythology as literal truth from that cultures perspective is fucking retarded , the pagan gods were known to be flawed personally. hercules was not a perfect human being emotionally (although he was physically), and thats kind of the point

also Odin makes it very clear the Aesir's morals supersede the Vanic ones ever since the war between them. the fact the aesir seemed disgusted with the Vanic practices of orgies and incest implies they didnt approve of any of their degenerate shit, and the conquering of the Vanir itself almost seems to be metaphorical for conquering the savage nature of mankind that lies within.

whats next, that jew book about odins cult being gay? youre running out of ammo

>>13643

>whats next, that jew book about odins cult being gay?

lol, I remember that one. Remember, he was also a Turkish god somehow, too.

>>13654

No

the norsemen worshiped both gods for a reason you dumby, that whole "asatru/vanatru" thing makes no sense to me, just be heathen

my patroness is freya and I worship her above all other gods, but not for the reasons most hippies who claim to worship her do

theres nothing wrong about the vanir, they just have the flaws inherent in materialistic humanity

>>13643

>savage nature

Close to my thoughts. I've told many before that I believe Frey and Freyja might represent biology or the animal kingdom because of Loki's accusations.

>>13656

youre prolly right, I believe the vanir represent biology and materialism while the aesir represent the mind and spiritualism

>>13661

I always thought the Vanir were the gods of the hunter-gatherer and horticultural Europeans, and the Aesir were the gods of the Aryans.

>>13661

That's an interesting interpretation.

I kind of intuited that the Vanir are peacetime gods, while the Aesir are wartime gods. The Aesir's superiority over the Vanir is perhaps a reminder that readiness for war is necessary to preserve peace.

>>13654

I don't think there's any precedent for neglecting one clan or the other. In fact, the Aesir-Vanir distinction is only attested in Norse sources. In Anglo-Saxon and continental sources, there are only mentions of the gods. Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, mind; it's possible that continental and insular Germanic people did have a conception of the Aesir and Vanir as two distinct groups, but it doesn't seem to be shown anywhere. Anyway, whatever your personal thoughts on the validity or legitimacy of a distinction between two groups of gods, I'd say that there's nothing wrong with - indeed, precedents in all Indo-European traditions - for cults of particular single deities, but being part of a group who tend to a sacred grove to Nerthuz isn't the same thing as being "Asatru or Vanatru".

>>13643

>>13655

>>13656

>>13661

>>13663

>>13664

All really interesting ideas. I've considered and seen posited by others the idea that the Vanir might be the gods of pre-Aryan indigenous northern Europeans whereas the Vanir are the gods of the invading/migrating Aryans of the period just before the Nordic bronze age, as >>13663 said, but I don't know how solidly supported this idea is. I definitely see and agree with the sense of the Vanir being more primitive, more earthy and more material, They tend to have spheres relating to land, fertility, bounty, wealth, whereas the Aesir tend to have more to do with either martial or philosophical/artistic domains. That said, it's interesting to note that the Vanir were originally those who knew seidhr, and that Odin had to learn it from them. Odin, of course, discovered the runes and so likely developed/learned non-seidhr magical practices, but still, the Vanir are gifted with magical foresight and were the original practitioners of seidhr, which adds an interesting dimension to them beyond being gods solely of material bounty.

While my mention of the Aesir - mostly Odin, but Tyr was likely once considered the chief of the gods and is also considered a martial and ruling god with an association of order/law/justice attached to him - commonly embodying both martial and intellectual spheres is fresh, consider the Hindu varna system: The Brahmins act as philosophers, scholars, religious leaders, teachers, etc. The Kshatriyas are administrator and warriors. (Only the Brahmins and Kshatriyas are considered Aryan in Hindu tradition, by the way; likely, they are the ones most descended from the Indo-European invaders of the Indian sub-continent.) The Vaishyas are merchants, traders, craftsmen, people with economic duties. The Sudras are labourers and servants. Consider the Rigsmal which describes the origins of the three social strata of Norse society. Jarl's son, Konr, learns to be a warrior and a ruler as well as to read and write, of poetry, of magic, etc. Karl's children are smiths, traders, etc. Thrall's are slaves and servants. It's obviously not the same as the Varna system, and Norse society was less strictly regimented than Hindu society - one can go from thrall to free man in an instant, simply by being freed, whereas Varna membership is life-long - but the parallels are clear to see. What's interesting is that Thrall and the Sudras can be equated, Karl and the Vaishyas can be equated, but Jarl seems to be a conflation of both the Brahmins and the Kshatriyas. This, I think, echoes (or is echoed by) the fact that Odin is both a god of war and kingmaking and a god of wisdom, knowledge and magic. Tyr is perhaps more purely Kshatriya material, as a ruler-warrior, but Odin definitely has attributes of both Varnas. To me, it evokes a quotation from Sir William Francis Butler: 'The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.'

>>13787

>Sir William Francis Butler: 'The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.'

Thanks for the attribution. I had assumed that quote was from some Greek philosopher.

The Aesir always seemed to me to not even have domains in the strictest sense. Thor isn't the god OF thunder, thunder is just what happens when he rides his chariot around and kills giants. Odin isn't the god OF knowledge, he just has a lot of it. They are later assigned these domains, perhaps by occult-minded medieval writers. Somebody in another thread said wiccans treated their gods like pokemon, maybe the same thing was going on there.

Anyway, interesting analysis. Can you recommend a good beginner book on Hinduism?

>>13788

>Odin isn't the god OF knowledge, he just has a lot of it

Actually the older continental form of him was mainly conected to storms, death and agriculture.