No.10259 [View All]
Hello /asatru/.
Let me just start by saying that I am fairly new here and don't know much about your beliefs. That is not why I am here though. I don't doubt that many of you can make good arguments as to why we Europeans should return to our native religions.
We want to preserve our race - It makes sense to worship the gods of our blood.
The logic is sound and reasonable. But what I want to know is how and why so many people are returning to worshipping the old pantheons in the first place. Obviously, there must be something with what we have currently that makes people reject it. That is christianity. That is what I want to know. How have christianity weakened Europeans? What damage have it done to us as a race, both physically and spiritually? What parts of its teachings and theology goes against our interests?
In short. I want to learn why and what Christianity have done to us. I would make this thread on /pol/, but every time anyone question some of christianity's teachings, the /christians/ sperg and shit up the thread so much that you cannot have a discussion there. It does not help that the mods are on their side either. /pol/ is a Weeb-Christian circlejerk at this point.
Also are there any books out there that goes into this topic?
____________________________
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No.10626
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No.10673
Has anyone come here from an Orthodox Christian background? I mean someone that truly understands Orthodox Theology.
It's a tough transition when the orthodox have such a rich tradition. You want to follow a path that is proven and has a beaten trail. Think of all of monks that have been given gifts, etc. There is sooo much material and literature if you want to take orthodoxy seriously and work on theosis, etc.
Comparatively, moving to asatru does feel a bit like stepping out of the light and into the dark. Because it's so new and we've lost so much. And the new asatru material seems to mainly come from wicca/satanist losers.
Looking for feedback here.
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No.10676
Wish I could make some dank memes for yall but I suck.
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No.10690
>>10623
>tfw i made that second image and someone posts it here
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No.10695
If you want critique of Christcuckery. Look no further than Thomas Paine.
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No.10696
>>10673
bumping for ex-orthodox people
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No.10705
>>10695
>Misogyny and Homophobia
Who invited the (((The Alt-Right)))?
Let me guess… Homosexuality is an implicit last stand in white identity, eh? Intolerance of gays is inherently jewish, eh?
>>>/bog/
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No.10710
>>10695
This is amazing. I'm realizing more and more that our founding fathers were exemplary modern pagans.
Any recommended reading regarding this?
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No.10716
>>10710
The US is in foundational principles absolutely steeped in liberalism. It has also, at every opportunity ever presented to it chosen to thunder across the seas and fight for said liberalism and cram it down its blood-kins throats like all the other brainwashed proto-marxist crusaders. Exemplary modern pagans? Maybe the faggiest boyfuckingest Hellenism, maybe. But no folk-way I'm kin to…
"American Identity" has made its bed and has chosen to kill its brothers and then kill itself. "The Great American Experiment" is over, in failure… If vinland somehow rises again, rather than going the way of south africa and rhodesia, it will be as something new entirely other than the stars and bars, liberalism, the fourth of july, the minutemen, baptists and the (((freemasons))). That america willingly died and I'm going to expend zero effort to revive it.
What little chance there to salvage this unique branch of european culture in the light of its own death lies in the grey and gold. The last americans to fight for aristocracy and hierarchy against egalitarianism and equality… and that is an extremely slim chance given the state of the south. But for what options the US has here in its twilight, it's as good as any other.
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No.10717
>>10716
Fair enough.
>If vinland somehow rises again
Is there some kind of movement there?
>What little chance there to salvage this unique branch of european culture in the light of its own death lies in the grey and gold.
What is the grey and gold?
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No.10718
>>10717
>Is there some kind of movement there?
Not particularly. Most everybody left who isn't part of the cancer finishing off the nation is turbo-proud to be zogbot "murrcans" which is itself one of the major signs that the american experiment is over in failure. The options are (((marxism))) and (((patriotic neo-conservatism))).
>What is the grey and gold?
Nah look heeh at this damnded jankee cahetbaggah! I do declayuh…
That said the south is still mostly meth-heads, unwed teen parents and meth-head unwed teen parents… So like I said it's a longshot, but as good as any shot the US has left. At 60% white at median age and dropping the options are running out quickly. No colonial nation has ever made it back from 49%
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No.10719
>>10718
Living in Atlanta, I can tell you that this place is… less than ideal.
Having said that, every southern state at least has a couple of metropolitan slum cities. So I'm not sure how any revival could happen without the inclusion of a major city.
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No.10783
>>10718
What is that festival in your pic anon?
I see a German flag kinda on the right side, with what looks like "folk" something.
>German heritage celebration
>honoring Confed ancestors
ples let me go. Sounds like a nice place to harvest a wifu.
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No.10787
>>10719
>Living in Atlanta, I can tell you that this place is… less than ideal.
The entire south is… less than ideal, a literally degenerate society. However, I'm of the mind the entire country is a failed experiment, I just outlined southern culture was the most established vector out of the (((egalitarianism and liberal enlightenment))) that the rest of the nation was absolutely founded on. The southern states were also the loyalist states during the revolution fighting against this asinine experiment from onset.
>Having said that, every southern state at least has a couple of metropolitan slum cities. So I'm not sure how any revival could happen without the inclusion of a major city.
As munich was to the NSDAP, yeah, you'd need a major population center and I'm doubtful there is a suitable one. I'll re-reiterate, I suggested it as a slim-chance hail-mary for salvaging a country I feel was built on sand and has collapsed at every chance instead of shoring up its immoral foundation. I'm not saying I even think this would work, merely I see it as the only real chance. An invented "new american society" that leaves out all of the old would be fake as fuck and garner little but a few roleplayers, the confederate meme is at least partially suitable and attracts a certain kind of person who already rejects what the nation has become.
I'm not optimistic for the USA period, but there is a very narrow and perilous road out so it's not 100.0000% hopeless, yet.
>>10783
That is a picture from santa barbara d'oeste, an exclave in brazil formed instead of suffering reconstruction (No really, look it up. Many confederates quite literally took their ball and went home to brazil, slaves and all). On the other hand, it's still brazil and there's still likely going to be racemixing because, fuck, it's brazil.
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No.10803
>>10787
damn I had my hopes up :(
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No.10814
>>10803
Don't let your dreams be dreams on account of my preconceived notions, anon, a vacation to huehueland is surely cheap enough. Check it out for yourself. But if you research the area people still end up being named "Joao Paulillo" so one has to wonder how truly confederate and/or white they still are.
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No.10894
>>10605
I cast Resurrection on this thread.
It seems to me that an omnipotent and omniscient deity would not be a person at all. It would not have anything resembling personhood, personality, or will (other than the will of a force of nature, static and blind).
Imagine if you asked it a question. It would simply refer to its unlimited knowledge and give you the appropriate answer. It would be like talking to a chat bot, a Chinese room. It would have no emotions or desires or feelings, because it already knows all and can do all, and an emotion would indicate a change in state (which it cannot do, ironically).
Then you get into the hairy world of whether or not Yahweh can kill himself, or if he can create a god that is even stronger than he is, or if he can create a rock so huge not even he can move it, and so on. Things that are always dismissed as silly, but are nevertheless left unanswered.
I would love to talk to a Christian about this stuff, but they're just too goddamn dishonest. To them, their immortal soul is at risk if they actually listen to what you have to say, so they will never actually listen. Even the smart ones. It's extremely frustrating, because the closer you get to truth, the more you start to argue with their amygdala.
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No.11082
>>10705
The last line of text isn't Paine though.
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No.11095
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No.11303
How do you folks feel about these writings on the subject:
- All Christians Are Cucks:
http://archive.is/X8Tqk
- Cucktianity: What Is A Covenant:
http://archive.is/Fdsxo
- Cuck Identity:
http://archive.is/qQPMf
- Cuck Identity #2:
http://archive.is/ICpaJ
- Indoctrination:
http://archive.is/RgZOY
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No.11306
>>11303
The Indoctrination article is pretty good. Cuck Identity is good too, though obviously very opinion oriented.
The "Cucktianity: What is a Covenant" article is pretty bad. The theology is way misunderstood and very elementary.
"All Christians Are Cucks" felt super ill-informed as well.
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No.11309
>>11306
Would you know of any good substitutes for those subpar articles?
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No.11313
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No.11354
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No.11358
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No.11362
Christianity actually has the same concept of blood and communion with the divine as the pagans. They just say that there was one final sacrifice and through the re-presentation of this sacrifice (the eucharist) we can all commune with the divine.
Christians don't go to church to tell God how good he is, but to commune with him because it makes us whole. We were created to be with God, so partaking in the eucharist puts us in our most natural state.
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No.11364
>>10271
>But the fact is it is still at least 1/3rd bolshevism
The bolsheviks were jews, right?
Jews don't believe in equality. They believe that they are superior.
Did the bolsheviks just want to destroy the people currently in power instead of making people equal? Or maybe they just see all goyim as equally garbage…
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No.11365
>>10605
>Yet he made this world with all its imperfections. The usual argument is
>>He wants to try us!
>But why would an all knowing being need to do this? Especially one which is also said to love every human?
Ever since I was a kid, I wondered why God even made us. He must have just been bored and wanted to watch us in a terrarium style world.
Either that or (maybe more likely), we were a natural offspring of God and there is only God and nothing else. Seems a bit too weird, but I think this is more in line with hinduism.
>This makes the german (and in extension most pagan) gods way more approachable imo. I'm not conversing with some all knowing entity
Jesus is said to be all-powerful, etc, but he's meant to be approachable because he was fully man. He lived on the earth as a man and this is why God (the trinity) is approachable. He knows our struggle.
>Personally, I don't believe in Valhalla nor Hel as real places, but rather as what awaits us after death in respect to how people will remember us.
A common near death experience is people being drawn into a bright light. Almost being absorbed by it. I think this could be in-line with Christianity and a number of other religions.
>>10894
>It seems to me that an omnipotent and omniscient deity would not be a person at all. It would not have anything resembling personhood, personality, or will (other than the will of a force of nature, static and blind).
But Jesus was a man, Anon. He became incarnate.
>Imagine if you asked it a question.
In the most orthodox circles, God is still very much a mystery. God is love, god sustains all in this world. We can only know God through what he has revealed to us (Jesus, etc.)
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No.11367
>>10354
>Christianity being a foreign Semitic faith is easy to prove because that is what it is and every Church states that it's roots and creators are Jewish.
There needs to be a separation from Hebrews / Ancient Jews and Modern Jews / Talmudism.
The roots of Christianity are indeed Abraham, etc. But this was a very different culture than modern day Jews. There really is no such thing as "Judeo-Christianity" and most Modern Jews will tell you this as well.
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No.11370
>>11365
>Jesus is said to be all-powerful, etc, but he's meant to be approachable because he was fully man
This is another bit of Christian rhetoric that doesn't really mean anything. Why does it matter if he was "born a man?" especially if he also simultaneously sat up in heaven like he always did before and after If a being knows everything, he would know what it's like to be human. If he could do anything, he could be exactly like a human without all the rigmarole of being "born" as one. It's just nonsense.
>>11367
>There needs to be a separation from Hebrews / Ancient Jews and Modern Jews / Talmudism.
This may may needs to die. The scheming kikes that the Romans, Greeks, Babylonians, and Egyptians had to deal with were not different at all from today. If anything, they were just more mud and less European.
Even in the bible, the Jews act like Jews all throughout it. Clannish, superior, contemptible of all others. Even Pharaoh in Exodus plans to run the Jews out because if he "went to war with a foreign kingdom, the Jews might side with them against me" or something like that. Hmmmm… I wonder why he would say that….
They've always been this way, I'm sorry to say. And you read their holy book and worship one of their sons. It's sickening, tbh fam
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No.11375
>>11370
>Why does it matter if he was "born a man?"
It matters because it means that God wants to have a relationship with us and that he understands us.
> superior, contemptible of all others. Even Pharaoh in Exodus plans to run the Jews out because if he "went to war with a foreign kingdom, the Jews might side with them against me" or something like that. Hmmmm… I wonder why he would say that….
Okay, I'll concede that. But the bible doesn't try to hide the fact that they were contemptible either. A lot of the point of the old testament is that the Jews are shitty the whole time and God still stays with them. That was sort of the point I think.
Then Jesus comes along and fulfills the point of Judaism all along and makes himself the final sacrifice.
Yet the Jews continued to be shitty even after Jesus.
One thing that gets me though is why would God forget the Jews even today if he didn't in the old testament? Why would them not believing in Jesus be the final straw?
It stands to reason that the Jews would still be saved I think.
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No.11387
>>11375
If Yahweh were omnipotent, he would already know and understand. He would learn nothing from being born a man, because he can't by definition learn anything.
>A lot of the point of the old testament is that the Jews are shitty the whole time
Yahweh punishes the Jews only when they are not Jewy enough. Don't have any illusions. Whenever the Jews get punished in the OT, it's because they didn't keep kosher or treated goyim as humans. That's when they get rekt, go look it up.
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No.11567
>>10271
This might be useless when discussing it with a /pol/ bro who pretty much loathes - The Church - and studies the NT to spite the politically correct. He's quite proficient. Last time I met him he wanted to study Orthodox Christianity, go to Russia and meet someone from "Asa".
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No.11568
>>10292
>Varg
He's one of the (((them))).
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No.11570
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No.12777
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No.12782
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No.12783
Hi, Christian here. I've been skimming the thread because I like seeing how you guys think. I think you're best bet to sway the peanut gallery is to hit the memes hard, but you need drawfag tier shit else people are going to ignore it the re-pastas.
Moreover, I think you're going to run into a problem trying to attack all Christianity at once; I would probably focus on divide and conquer when you find yourself in an argument with one of us.
First, figure out which flavor they are and tailor your plan of attack there.
Second, counter-attack the offending anon while making it seem like you're okay with the rest of us, but <insert denomination here> is just too cucked for you to let it slide.
Third, appear reasonable to other obvious denoms' objections while trying to focus on the weak points of whatever flavor you're attacking.
Fourth, claim victory while you watch all the other denominations pile onto the one they think they gained a rare non-Christian ally in the attack over.
Attacking us as one is just going to be business as usual and, since we're so diverse, your arguments lose their edge. A great example is attacking us as one over being pacifist; RC bros love to defend this angle using Teutonic Knights. Focusing on cucked immigration policies is good, but then you fly into Orthobro land where remove kebab is sanctioned.
In short, divide and conquer.
pls no bully orthobros
Oh, and please don't start gay d&c threads on /pol/. You only end up encouraging /christian/ autists to do the same and it shits the place up for everyone.
>>12777 (nice trips, checked)
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No.12849
> But what I want to know is how and why so many people are returning to worshipping the old pantheons in the first place.
Well, day to day religious affairs for the ancients did not focus on the gods outside of warrior god cults. I would argue modern heathenry's preoccupation with deity is an Abrahamic taint. The gods of the Gemranic world view were distant beings, not frequently invested in mankind or individuals meaningfully. Aside from great rulers and warriors, mankind is something of a passing thought to the gods who have their own tribal affairs to tend to, and Yggdrassil itself to order. Unlike Jehova/Allah, who is a personal god deeply invested in his people and handing down invasive moral edicts, the gods of our ancestors had little in the way of moralizing to do and were not likely to notice you. Indeed, it was often better that they didn't. You factor into their machinations much the same way ants do to yours when you're digging up the yard to install a patio.
> Obviously, there must be something with what we have currently that makes people reject it. That is christianity.
I believe the easiest answer to this question is to be understood that monotheism in general, and Abrahamic monotheism in particular, does not put forth an animist world view and is focused on moral edicts. Christianity teaches a philosophy of intense division. You and your soul are sort of haphazardly glued together, your body to be discarded for a new one after Jesus's judgement. The world of heaven is very distinct from the cosm, separate entirely. Even the act of worshipping jesus theologically anoints you as a being apart from the world. "Wordly" pursuits are essentially considered uncouth at best, spiritually detrimental more frequently. This is, in short, a deeply sick way to behave yourself.
You ARE of this world, of this body. No amount of judeochristian/muslim brainwashing can change that. It's why Abrahamic monotheism is so worried about things like sex; the instincts cannot be reasoned away and sex is a very powerful link back to that animist interconnectedness that their theology has worked so hard to destroy. The realm of the spirit and the realm we inhabit are not two different places but intertwined cosms. The landvaettir are your neighbors, for better or worse and your house wight and ancestral spirits are with you, even in your blood!
It all comes down to something deeply rooted in our most primitive reasoning faculties, an instinct that even inquisions, crusades, tent revivals and forced self-hatred could not suppress. As a testament to that I offeryou our own utterly shattered heathen culture. What we are trying to rebirth here is haphazardly sewn together from mere shreds hanging off the bone of a once robust faith. The Christians were very successful at doing to our people what they later did to the native Americans. And yet here we are, long past being conquered, our culture truly erased, and STILL it bubbles to the surface.
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No.12850
>>12849
Continued
What the Norns have carved, and how we influence wyrd, does not go away just because it is inconvenient to some bronze aged desert nomads' profoundly anti-humanist worldview.
I know I'm in a minority on this board, but race doesn't factor into this much for me. In fact I believe it of deepest importance that we set racial divides aside if we are to be successful in truly rebirthing our ancestral ways. We are going to need the help of other shamanistic cultures; the native Americans and the Shintoists, the Samis, and the Sangomas. Animists the world over, from every age, have a tremendous amount in common. I don't claim to know if we all follow the same gods, it stands to reason that, shamanistic animist religions being far more concerned with localized spirits than actual deity, that we all commune with these spirits within a more ethnically enclosed framework by simple virtue of where and when we happened to be born.
But we are all tapped into the same underlying current. Wyrd by any other term is still Wyrd. That "common fabric" from which all things are sewn, that which gives some measure of animate nature even to things we moderns see as entirely inanimate, supersedes even the Norns and the Gods. Perhaps even Ginnungagap itself!
If we are to get out of the Abrahamic modality and back into our animist birth right, we're going to have to let go of the concept of "personal gods", to let go of god cults as a primary religious institution. We're going to have to dig deep into our shamanic roots. Considering virtually none of the actual practices remains that are untainted by Sturluson's faith, we're going to need the world tribe's help to get back to our specific European roots.
Frith is, after all, the major ethical construct of heathenry. It's not moral-absolutist edicts handed down from infallible ultimate authorities, rather a highly contextual web of interactions with those we belong to and who belong to us. And it exists on many layers from our family and tribe int he central most holy position, all the way out to all mankind. If we've lost sight of that, then Heathenry truly is dead! Only we have the power to make that true, not the Christians.
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No.12854
What do you chaps make of this transformation of Nietzsche under """thinkers""" like Foucault from a hardcore right-wing anti-egalitarian into some weird degenerate who is invoked to support all sorts of Jew-tier shit?
It's 100% clear from even a cursory reading of Nietzsche that he despised the liberalism of his day and would have despised the liberalism of today even moreso.
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No.12855
>>12783
Sounds kind of subversive and merchantish. I'd rather say my piece and let the chips fall where they may.
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No.16078
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No.16248
The standard arguments i usually run into:
1. Christianity united Europe
2. Northern Germanic pagans were shit tier barbarians
3. Greco-Roman paganism is the only example of pagans ever uniting
Got anything i can whip out to counter these in a hurry? I usually don't feel like writing an essay.
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No.16249
>>16248
>1. Christianity united Europe
4th Crusade. Thirty Years' War. Wars on non-Christian populations by Teutonic Knights. Collaborations with Muslims in Crusades. World War 2.
>2. Northern Germanic pagans were shit tier barbarians
Niggers have been Christian for how long?
>3. Greco-Roman paganism is the only example of pagans ever uniting
Tell us more on how the Thirty Years' War never happened.
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No.16252
>>16249
>Niggers have been Christian for how long?
We should start calling Africa and South America: New Christendom or simply Christendom. Because it's true.
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No.16273
>>16252
Or better yet judeo-bullprepstianistan heh
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No.16276
>>11364
>The bolsheviks were jews, right?
>
>Jews don't believe in equality. They believe that they are superior.
>
>Did the bolsheviks just want to destroy the people currently in power instead of making people equal? Or maybe they just see all goyim as equally garbage…
Very nice argument, but it all boils down to the fact that Bolshevism or Communism tries to make people equal, but people are all hypocrites and thus that fails.
Try seperating the ideeology from human nature.
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No.16277
>>12849
>Well, day to day religious affairs for the ancients did not focus on the gods outside of warrior god cults. I would argue modern heathenry's preoccupation with deity is an Abrahamic taint. The gods of the Gemranic world view were distant beings, not frequently invested in mankind or individuals meaningfully. Aside from great rulers and warriors, mankind is something of a passing thought to the gods who have their own tribal affairs to tend to, and Yggdrassil itself to order. Unlike Jehova/Allah, who is a personal god deeply invested in his people and handing down invasive moral edicts, the gods of our ancestors had little in the way of moralizing to do and were not likely to notice you. Indeed, it was often better that they didn't. You factor into their machinations much the same way ants do to yours when you're digging up the yard to install a patio.
That's all very nice, but why would I accept the claims beings made here?
I could say that the Gods and their servants are close to us and that the Christian God is distant, that's my experience. So basically you are just saying things and hoping we somehow come to accept them as true.
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No.16312
>>16277
Is distance always a good metric to use?
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