No.952132
Thoughts on the transition from Cel to Digital for anime? Animation thread in general I guess.
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No.952135
The change from cel to digital was the BEST thing to happen in a long time! Animation became dramatically cheaper and easier top roduce so everything instantly became 9999999999 times smoother and prettier. I'm actually so glad we can have true kino now that cels have gracefully died and digital has paved the way for lovely wonderful CG
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No.952154
Non-anime related, but that Claus movie might have set a new standard for animation. Today there are digital animation techniques that mimic traditional animation in interesting ways. I'm cautiously optimistic for the future, more so than I was 5 years ago at least.
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No.952156
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No.952157
>>952135
Except much of anime produced today is a mix of both cel and digital.
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No.952159
>>952132
As someone who dabbled in animation, i'm just gonna say that pure cel animations are phased out for a reason. Technology and Efficiency. Current digital animation can almost replicate traditional cels, provided if the animator could do it. All that without the hassle of writing on paper, and being able to share it digitally quickly. The next big thing that digital animation allows is being able to do inbetweens frames more easily. It reduces the amount of animators required, and thus more animators can be freed up to do other scenes.
As sad as cels died, it already served it's run ever since the birth of the golden age of animation. The future is digital, whether you like it or not. Unless you're talking about Stop-Motion, that shit it still old-school methods but with new-age hardware.
>>952135
This, but unironically
>>952154
>Claus movie
My nigger. I know that this is /co/ related, but that movie set a precedent for being a 2D movie but managed to set it's own style through a very unique production methods. What's more interesting is that it actually uses an AI painter to automatically color shadows, since it'll take a fuck long time to color it by hand. That doesn't meant that it was literally made as a whole by AIs though, the small but talented team is what makes it great.
Claus sets a new milestone for 2D, while Into the Spiderverse does the same to 3D.
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No.952162
>>952154
That movie was insane animation technique wise.
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No.952164
I understand from a economical perspective how digital is the better option, yet cel has a place in my heart that will never be replaced.
The other day I was watching nagasarete airantou and I enjoy all the artistic liberties that drawing gave to the expression of the character, may not be "realistic" but it was funny and I loved it.
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No.952167
I don't care what method they use. I'm tired of zero-detail anime. They use super-realistic background and yet the characters and their clothes look like they're made of clay or something. I think the main issue is the lack of shading. I don't know, I'm not an animator.
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No.952236
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No.952325
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No.952399
All digital animation is unacceptable. It has no humanity, a computer made it. Without humanity, there is no beauty, expression, or artistic value. It's simply worthless. It's the same reason why all electronic "music" and any sound with artificial instruments is not music.
>m-muh cost-cutting
>m-muh inbetweeners
Oy vey. Irrelevant, instead measure things in the volume of good material being produced. Which nowadays, "good material" is almost extinct. Even the big budget famous series look like shit.
Computers aren't a panacea, they don't magically solve everything, and some things aren't problems that need solving. Stop using them when they're no help.
A 90s hentai or low grade series still looks better than anything from nowadays. Digital animation is simply an expressionless, unaesthetic, ugly, and plain idiotic way of going about things, that depending on your interpretation of the word "animation" might not even count as animation.
RE:Zero had all the budget they could ever want yet they can't beat Legend of Lyon Flare.
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No.952400
>>952399
It is a business after all anon, they go were they can get the most with the less invested. It is sad, but that is what it is.
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No.952401
>>952399
COPE harder stupid!
The only objective criteria is that anime is worthless without animation and no old cuckime you care to name will ever have even a 10th of the animation of a single episode of current year anikino
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No.952413
This article about some of the Digital animation techniques Your name has is interesting https://blog.sakugabooru.com/2017/07/28/kimi-no-na-wa-your-name-production-notes/
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No.952524
>>952399
This man speaks the truth. Anything that was made digitally is completely irredeemable and everyone on this site knows it deep down.
>>952400
This is why all anime will continue to be shit for the rest of history.
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No.952525
>>952399
Holy fucking based.
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No.952527
>>952399
There is nothing that can be done to debate this. You are absolutely correct anon. Anything digital it bad. Fact.
>>952401
End yourself tranny
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No.952530
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>952167
Let's wait for that (((Netflix))) digital "hand-drawn" anime to come out, once and for all there will be definite proof that digital anime will never come close to hand-drawn anime. And that running animation looks like shit.
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No.952531
>>952530
I like the scenography but I agree that the running looks odd, too stiff with lack of gesture.
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No.952532
Question do some of you know that digital animation is handrawn?
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No.952534
>>952532
I doubt it! Anyone who complains digital animation is 100% all computer and lacks 2D - like it was magically beamed from someones head into the computer - is super STUPID and doesn't know what they're talking about
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No.952551
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No.952552
>>952532
Fish caught with a fishing rod are handcaught too.
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No.952553
>>952551
>>952552
I accidentally turned 2 phrases into 2 posts like a tard, fuggg.
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No.952560
>>952530
Exactly. Digital anything will be eternally shit and everyone on this board knows it.
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No.952571
>>952560
>everyone on this board
>muh appeal to consensus
>>>/reddit/
>>952530
>inb4 no plot
>inb4 just a technical demo
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No.952573
>>952399
>drawing with a pen instead of using your fingers
>drawing on paper instead of on rocks
Anything drawn with a pen or brush on paper lacks soul. It has no humanity, a tool made it. The conformity and genericity of modern paper cannot compete with the unique qualities found on the surface of any rock which, in turn, will add uniqueness and depth to any work made on them.
Digital art is made by a human using a tool and it has exactly as much 'humanity' as it would if any other tool had been used.
>any sound with artificial instruments is not music
All instruments are artificial, you dumb fuck.
>volume of good material
Alright, sure. Now compare that to the volume of currency being used. The 80's, in general, had better animation than we do today but it sure as hell wasn't because of cel animation. Even despite the budget constraints there's still well done animation being produced today. Webm related.
>aren't problems that need solving
Rising costs and lowering profits due to economic decline absolutely are problems that need solving. Did you forget about your 'humanity' point? Humanity needs to eat.
>A 90s
No. The 90's produced plenty of trash.
>TV series can't beat muh bubble OVA
saitama.png
Your post is mostly buzzwords and you're a giant faggot.
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No.952584
>>952530
>3D rendered unity/unreal engine backgrounds
<good
It's like creating a hand-crafted luxurious dress with expensive fibres that are normally only used in hyper cars and space equipment, then putting it on a dumb niggress.
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No.952854
>>952573
Who are you strawmanning right now you retarded fucking faggot. What a shitty jewish hyperbole argument though. I can say the same thing about how enjoying digital is the same as enjoying 3D.
Stop defending degeneration art for profit.
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No.952913
>>952854
>strawmanning
How is it a strawman? That was your argument. 'Digital art is bad because computers are artificial and lack humanity'. What is 'humanity'? It's a fucking buzzword, that's what, but I assume you're trying to use it to mean 'a lack of uniformity' and maybe 'a lower skill floor'. Well, guess what? All are true of pens, brushes and paper when compared to fingers and rocks. They're all artificial, it's much easier to make something that looks good using them and using them will result in more uniformity.
>What a shitty jewish hyperbole argument
More buzzwords.
>enjoying digital is the same as enjoying 3D
Yes, enjoying things is, generally, much the same as enjoying other, similar things.
>Stop defending degeneration art for profit.
Art isn't degenerating. There are still, occasionally, traditionally animated works produced and they tend to be quite good. You want more? Go fund them. Greed has been a prime human motivator for our entire existence. Without profit you won't be getting anywhere.
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No.952927
>>952531
>too stiff with lack of gesture
Because they're too lazy with the camera's perspective. They concentrate too much on the fluidity and production of the animation just to let it all down by forgetting that all things run by creating rapid but brief intervals of intense movement.
Adding a bounce to the character wouldn't be hard at all but adds that much more to the quality of animation, except there isn't anyone there in the studio with enough brain cells to tell them so. That's what you get with an overblown budget.
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No.954268
>>952913
>baiting yourself
>humanity is a buzzword
wew
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No.954516
>>952167
The lack of shading is the biggest sin of the last 20 years of productions.
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No.954532
>>952399
I hope this is bait since you have zero idea of how the animation industry worked back then and how it shifted to what it is today.
>>952532
Of course and the fact that digital is cheaper (in the long run) compared to cel animation is because you don't need a lightbox and a fuckload of paper to draw on it. That's not even getting into the goddamn clean-up. Oh god, the tediousness of clean-up.
>>952573
kek, nicely done lad.
Speaking of ground and paper, sand animations are a thing.
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No.954536
One comparison I like to make, but that isn't necessarily representative, is how Jojo OVA looks and how the recent anime looks, for me, the cel animated one looked more raw, nice shading and lots of dark colors. I still like how the 2010s series looked, very bright and they got the manga's aesthetic across well at points, each has their own strength. I do really love the colors used by a lot of mid-late 90s shows had, lots of oranges and purples, wish there were more shows with a similar palette.
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No.954537
>>954536
>I just posted the shitty image on my hard drive relating to the OVA
not a good look! Here have this instead.
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No.954879
https://artistunknown.info/2020/04/11/yutaka-nakamura-x-masahiro-ando-superaction-animation-talk/
>Ando: [...] Recently, 3D animation is starting to embrace some of the limitation of expression typical of 2D animation but in Nakamura’s animation, you can see the characteristics of both all drawn traditionally.
>Oguro: Like saying “How can this lose to 3D?”
>Ando: More like: “How can someone express this by hand?”
>Nakamura: Well, If I wanted to use 3D animation I’d be using that. But there is no time to prepare 3D animation because I have also to work on the storyboard of my parts, so I end up drawing all by hand.
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No.955040
Digital is fine, as long as artists are still drawing lines by hand.
I'll disagree with the digitalfag that it's automatically better. Some rough hand animation is nice and I like the grain you get when you actually take snapshots. But I have no issue with the final colors being clean (and easy to compress well).
The problem is 3DCG. It's bad in the West and it's worse in Japan. I'm incredibly depressed about the lack of traditional animation by the likes of Disney; anime is the last refuge of people drawing stuff. I'll accept digital to reduce costs and improve production speed if it means saving the industry from just being garbage 3D animation.
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No.955042
>>955040
Everything the west has made is trashy even if it's 2D, theatrically released stuff like the Little Mermaid or Alice in Wonderland while not terrible, get completely surpassed by seasonal Anime.
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No.955058
>>955042
Wap-tier opinion. Disney has classics ranging from The Black Cauldron to Atlantis. Seasonal anime is harem isekai moeshit and belongs in the trash.
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