No.411960 [View All]
What would you say regarding pic related? Agree or disagree? Why?
source: http://archive.is/DWFbJ
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No.412552
>>411992
Clearly the torture involved here is loving sex designed to convert the captive in question to the opposing force.
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No.412560
>>412494
b-but my edgelord fantasies
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No.412566
>>412494
And yet, interrogation and torture continue to be used regardless of what people generally believe or accept.
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No.412567
>>412560
>soldering iron up your ass and THEN plugged in
We had a russian guy tell us this old KGB technique, he said no ever lasted more than 15 mins.
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No.412571
>>412464
He makes some pretty nice mosaics, if a little rudimentary. :^)
Methods similar to his interrogation techniques (befriending the POW and getting them to talk naturally) have been discussed in this thread.
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No.412572
>>412566
Because it's not about information, it's about confessions.
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No.412574
>>412572
Funny, the faggot referenced in the OP said something similar about the Spanish Inquisition.
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No.412576
>>412567
> old KGB technique
You are a very naive person, anon.
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No.412584
>>412566
That's because they're not doing it for any real interrogation it's either as a punishment for a crime you're accused of, force you to do something against you, executions, etc.
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No.412587
Regardless of whether or not torture is effective from a logical standpoint, it's important to remember that cultures do not act in a logical way. If PCs are part of some gangster organization, Inquisition, or some alien non-human culture, torture should be an option.
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No.412591
The OP is nonsense.
At its' most basic, torture is just an expression of will, with no higher purpose to the action. Niggers torture because they can and want to. Not because they have some abstract philosophical framework to justify the practice and explain some moral or practical good provided by it.
Jews love torture because they are evil. Observe the soviet union: all the horrible tortures they ordered inflicted upon people, their paranoid surveillance despite abundant evidence no one opposed them, the brutality of organized crime, the modern horror genre which is composed of fictional snuff films, and so forth.
The idea a man is so tough he will resist torture is a romantic fantasy. Anyone subjected to intense pain will eventually try to please his tormentor to make the pain stop.
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No.412678
>>411960
Faggot is trying very hard to showcase xis ideological commitment against blasphemy of the Willing Self of myth and on the Current Year Party Line, on an issue that is trivial to anyone outside Burgeristan.
Torture is a weak and dangerous thing that may fail the truth. Many people have the patience and endurance to be contemptuous of torture. The truth can never be extracted from them. Others have so little patience that they would rather tell any kind of lie than suffer torture. They confess to anything by implicating themselves and others in crimes.
Domitius Ulpianus, c.220 AD
Even in the 3rd century BC, it was hardly a novel idea that there is no nonsense the ticklish would not admit to escape the Tickle Monster.
That's how far McMongrels are behind the curve.
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No.412679
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No.412724
>>412396
>The remaining 10% are the ones who have anything of value to tell you.
Don't think that's how it works. I'd expect a politician to crack much easier than, say, a soldier, yet the politician would have much more of value to tell.
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No.412727
>>412724
you'd be surprised most soldiers are fuckheads.
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No.412766
>>412591
> The OP is nonsense.
But the way you attempt to refute it is even dumber.
> At its' most basic, torture is just an expression of will, with no higher purpose to the action.
At its' most basic, pissing is just an expression of will, with no higher purpose to the action.
You are delusional, if you think that any action can't be described that way.
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No.412775
>>412766
but pissing definitely has a higher purpose (to clear the body of waste). Torture fits what he said because its low(a shitty thing to do) and optional to begin with
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No.412798
>>412775
> but pissing definitely has a higher purpose
...
How do you differentiate between "higher" and "lower" purpose? There is no inherent measurement, no way to establish who is correct, anyone can claim anything about "higher" and "lower".
> Torture [is] optional to begin with
That depends. It's not like it is always possible for torturer to bail with no consequences. I.e. "at its' most basic" we can't say that it is always and inherently optional.
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No.412799
>>412766
>>412775
>>412798
You've fallen into his trap. You are now lost in the forest of piss
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No.412842
>>412799
The great thing about being older is that the taboo and urge of bodily fluids of all kinds just wears off
>you'll live long enough that even your fetishes will fail you.
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No.412846
>>412842
>you'll live long enough that even your fetishes will fail you.
There's always vanilla.
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No.413181
Yeah, this is bullshit. Interogation is interogation is interogation. You ask the same question seven thousand times looking for any discrepancy in the answers provided and you keep the target off balance to make it more difficult for them to remember any lies they have to make up on the spot.
Weather you keep them off balance by arresting them publicly and humiliating them, threatening them with all kinds of horrible penalties for not telling you what you want to hear, pretending you already know everything so lying is pointless, shining a bright light in their face, pacing around just outside their field of vision, just straight up shocking their balls, or bribing them with reduced or even no punishments for crimes they have committed, the overall flow of an interrogation DOES NOT CHANGE. Nor does the fact that the interrogator ALREADY believes the person they are dealing with to be sub-human in some way or another: even modern cops question suspects differently than witnesses.
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No.413227
>>412798
In what situation is torture mandatory?
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No.413240
>>413227
nothing is mandatory so in no situations would torture be mandatory.
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No.413262
>>413181
Except that putting them under extreme physical stress, like with torture, is only going to make them fuck up the answers more. And not because they're being untruthful, but because they're distracted and being tortured. It's pretty basic logical reasoning that adding in torture will only mess up the deductive side of things, and get them to tell you whatever they think will make you stop hurting them. This is why some of the most successful interrogators of modern history (e.g., Hanns Scharff) have used persuasive and non-violent methods. As you said, the flow of interrogation is still the same, but it's not wrong to say that torture doesn't help anything.
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No.413287
>>413262
You're objectively wrong, because a lawful good paladin would never interrogate at all. They can't afford to waste their time when they could be out purging everything that pings on a detect evil spell. In the rare chance they're up against an intelligent evil, detect lies makes any interrogation more of a "lie, and something you like gets hurt" negative reinforcement. Goblins aren't really capable of higher thoughts like protecting the mission anyways. First time getting punished for lying, they'll buckle and rat or their whole clan.
>implying author just didn't handwavium this whole thing to avoid having his game become synonymous with torture (massive leftist)
>implying that OP isn't lawful good goblin reformist
>implying this isn't some shit attempt to raise the post count
>implying the angry /k/ shit poster didn't come here because of a shit lord 40k orc lover who shilled our board on /k/.
>implying this thread shouldn't have been anchored after it was apparent only one faggot was keeping the opposing thought alive (just like the alignment thread)
>implying this post is quality
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No.413297
I notice a weird little problem with torture in D&D. I don't think Gygax had this problem - I think it started sometime after 1985.
The DM is allowed to have as much torture as he wants. The DM can run evil kings, alien illithids, demons from hell. The players can get tortured, dropped into sadistic traps, etc. But as soon as the players get tired of the DM's sadism and retaliate by torturing any monster - from a kobold to an illithid - the DM screams bloody murder.
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No.413298
>>413297
>stooping to petty sadism to "retaliate" against the DM for writing the bad guys like bad guys.
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No.413312
>>413262
Not really. Stress is stress. We tell ourselves that what goes on in police interogation rooms isn't the same as torture because it dosen't leave phyical marks but it can still traumattize the shit out of the person going through it. Use your google fu and look up how often false confessions are obtained in first world countries that don't allow police to "torture"
What you're doing is mixing up when you interrogation with asset acquisition. Interogation is what you do with enemies you have caputred, it takes a long time to yeild results and the only things you can do with it is a) confirm what you already know and/or b)fill in gaps in what you already know. It's usefull when you've got the puzzle half completed already.
Asset acquisition is what Spys do. They befriend a target over a long period of time (or gain some kind of leverage) so that they can gain access to the information the target alos has access to.
There's also the good cop/bad cop interrogation technique but good coping REQUIRES at least the threat of a bad cop to work. Because good cop/bad cop is also known as carrot and stick. Scharff being nice was all well and good, but he had the fact that he was in a fucking Luftwaffe uniform serving as a constant reminder that if they didn't cooperate with THIS guy they could end up with someone much MUCH worse.
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No.413352
>>413312
>isn't the same as torture because it dosen't leave phyical marks but it can still traumattize the shit out of the person going through it
It's literally just sitting in front of you with a tape recorder and doing paperwork all day while ignoring you or asking the same questions over and over again. Unless you're in there for something like CP then at most they'll just keep trying to question you even outside the room until they have a gotcha moment. Then use that against you in a court of law.
Ex-Soviet police won't even interrogate they'll just put a gun to your head and say you did it.
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No.413355
>>413298
When the DM writes bad guys that can be meaningfully fought, that's a game. When the DM writes invincible evil DMPCs, that's the DM's personal psychological problem.
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No.413363
>>411960
Torture is sometimes overvalued, but saying it never has any intelligence value is pure and simply wishful thinking on this guy's part.
The rest of it is pretty much bullshit.
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No.413371
Torture is an idiot’s resort. Nobody who cares about their cause would use it, but liars and saboteurs promote it in groups they hate.
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No.413372
Hey wait I’m in the wrong forum, sorry
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No.413407
>>413297
Of course Gygax didn't object to player characters who tortured. Gygax wanted players to have a real option to be good or evil. Gygax loved the Elric stories and Elric tortured people.
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No.413411
>>413298
You write like a kender and your arm is full of rot grubs.
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No.413587
>>411960
the fag who wrote this would do literally anything to get out of a paper cut
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No.413620
Anyone still have that pdf link from the last thread?
>>412200
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No.413714
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>ctrl-f
>CBT
>nothing
TIME TO FIX THAT
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No.416875
You are also forgetting to realize that there are systems out there that can make it impossible to confirm or deny that the information they are seeking even exists. Look up Rubberhose Encryption.
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No.416877
>>412159
Actually the opposite is generally accepted as ideal. Showing the enemy that you treat prisoners humanely softens the common man on the opposing side to compare you favorably against their own leadership. This is why in the military they'll teach you that if you're captured and they give you food or other luxuries and comforts to behave like an animal with it so that the enemy can't use it as propaganda to show off how awesome it is to be one of them. There's a semi-fine line between cooperating/aiding the enemy and making yourself useful to your own side while in the possession of enemy forces. Normal people don't want to think that the Peoples United Freedom Army lead by Glorious Leader butchers it's enemies and turns it's prisoners into lunatics since everyone wants to believe they're on the side of the good and right. But if it gets out that your army treats it's prisoners worse than you would treat your own worst enemy or that the people you're fighting aren't hardened killers and rapists but uncivilized simpletons and you're still having a hard time beating them, it demoralizes your people.
I have an instinct that torture must be useful for something but for what I'm not sure. If it's good for your side to overplay how much you've been tortured then whatever it's good for has to be fairly limited.
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No.416894
>>416877
>I have an instinct that torture must be useful for something but for what I'm not sure.
Intimidationm, control, punishments, political messages basically what most people use torture for anyways.
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No.416898
>>411960
Wow so much leftist propaganda in that thread I had to check I wasn't on leftypol.
First torture is almost never about intelligence, especially since WWII. Torture is a political act in itself that reintroduce the death, pain and suffering brought by war to the side in a conflict that has chosen the most cowardly way of waging war: that is by refusing to wear an uniform and as such accepting those risks that go with it as any soldier does by hiding in the civilian population.
It is a strategy, that deprive the enemy of the advantage of picking it's fights and preventing the defending side to exercise it's power (power = monopoly of violence) against them.
It is so easy to help someone that you know is beaking the law for X,Y,Z political or sentimental reasons, so much easier than standing behind a rifle under mortar fire.
It's a bit less easy if you know that if the opposed intelligence catch a whiff of you they will hook your balls to a car battery and make you whistle the national anthem.
Cowardice must be answered by ruthlessness, such is the ONLY way to successfully fight an insurgency.
Intelligence gathering here is a side benefit and a way to sell to the soldiers administering it and one's own civilian population it's usage. But make no mistake the goal is to break the spirit of any would be insurgent by making them think twice about putting their neck out.
The second mistake is that said side benefice is negligible. It's not. Torture usually works and does regularly provide actionable intelligence. It's a commie myth of "the brave revolutionary" that will never betray his comrades. The commies secret police themselves must be pissing themselves laughing by hearing it when their liberal use of it allowed them to crush entire ARMIES of anti-red partizan. Because as seen previously the people that fight in such subdue manner are at their core terrified of fighting. They know they're gonna lose once confronted to the reality of their adversary power. They may be cunning yes... but they're usually not that smart. They're schemers, not "brave fighters". People like that DO NOT fare well under interrogation. Let alone torture. They will try to make deals, to negotiate, to believe they can somehow warn the others and, ultimately, to save themselves or the people they hold dear.
>>416877
Which is the reason why anyone tortured past a certain point must be executed and be made disappears. The insurgents must know what they risk but the population at large must NOT. Sure they will be rumors, but as long as there are no hard evidence past the stories from the insurgents most people won't care (as most people don't care about politics, no matter what they are). Couple this with a good daily propaganda about how the insurgent are terrorists that eat babies and most people will think "well even if it's true it's not like they didn't deserve it".
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No.416911
>>416898
Fairly intelligent post.
I'll warn you that this post is bait, and all "be kind to your neighborly traitor/insurgent/captive is purely from one anon. It's better to just ignore this shit thread, as it had almost fallen off the map before some other anon resurrected it. The book it came from is rubbish, and it by no means has any real credibility in the tabletop community, much less are the resources "backing" their claim by any means official. OP is a massive faggot, that's the only takeaway from this thread.
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No.417256
>>416898
>Intelligence gathering here is a side benefit and a way to sell to the soldiers administering it and one's own civilian population it's usage. But make no mistake the goal is to break the spirit of any would be insurgent by making them think twice about putting their neck out. The second mistake is that said side benefice is negligible. It's not. Torture usually works and does regularly provide actionable intelligence. It's a commie myth of "the brave revolutionary" that will never betray his comrades. The commies secret police themselves must be pissing themselves laughing by hearing it when their liberal use of it allowed them to crush entire ARMIES of anti-red partizan. Because as seen previously the people that fight in such subdue manner are at their core terrified of fighting. They know they're gonna lose once confronted to the reality of their adversary power. They may be cunning yes... but they're usually not that smart. They're schemers, not "brave fighters". People like that DO NOT fare well under interrogation. Let alone torture. They will try to make deals, to negotiate, to believe they can somehow warn the others and, ultimately, to save themselves or the people they hold dear.
Thanks for reminding us that US education's main objective is to dumb down everyone to the level of niggers with cerebral palsy, for equality.
Torture is a weak and dangerous thing that may fail the truth. Many people have the patience and endurance to be contemptuous of torture. The truth can never be extracted from them. Others have so little patience that they would rather tell any kind of lie than suffer torture. They confess to anything by implicating themselves and others in crimes.
Domitius Ulpianus, c.220 AD
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No.417258
Eh, I wouldn't agree with his statement, unless we were talking about a Paladin (or other angelic being). Torturing a paladin is giving him another reason to kick your ass when he gets out of the situation he's in.
The easy way to get around that, is the fact that you would just have to threaten someone else, and only the most extreme of circumstances would alleviate his code to prevent harm (either by the fact that letting information go would create even more harm)
Compared to, an enslaved gremlin creature, goblin or kobold, take your pick... there is not the same amount of conviction, especially for creatures who come from a society where they are at best second class citizens under much stronger baddies.
You could even get a demon/devil to squeal with cold iron/silver, and some holy water applied to the face
Assuming everyone undergoing torture is a trained spy who has information they're willing to sacrifice everything for to keep it out of your hands isn't how things work. Even before we get into the moral argument.
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No.417525
>>417256
>can’t make a counterpoint without muttspam
>>>/intl/
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No.417531
>>417256
>Truncated citation and trying to pass ancient "wisdom" for truth.
You want to play?
>Quaestioni fidem non semper nec tamen numquam habendam constitutionibus declaratur: etenim res est fragilis et periculosa et quae veritatem fallat.
"Our constitutions (laws) states, that faith in interrogations should neither be given nor discarded: indeed those are fragile and dangerous and can fail [to reveal] the truth."
>Nam plerique patientia sive duritia tormentorum ita tormenta contemnunt, ut exprimi eis veritas nullo modo possit:
Some obstinate by patience or toughened by torment [of life] hold torture in contempt, and it is not possible to make them tell the truth:
>alii tanta sunt impatientia, ut quodvis mentiri quam pati tormenta velint:
others are so impatient they will lie to spare themselves the slightest torture:
>ita fit, ut etiam vario modo fateantur, ut non tantum se, verum etiam alios criminentur.
and thus will change their words, implicating themselves, but others as well in crimes.
"Our laws states, that faith in interrogations should neither be given nor discarded: indeed those are fragile and dangerous and can fail to reveal the truth. Some obstinate by patience or toughened by the torments of life hold torture in contempt, and it is not possible to make them tell the truth. Others are so impatient they will lie to spare themselves the slightest torture: and thus will change their words, implicating themselves, but others as well in crimes."
So basically all he's saying is not to take criminals at their words and in a legal context that people shouldn't be condemned only by declarations.
Such great wisdom.
Thank you, navarchus obvius.
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No.424529
>>411960
Torture is mostly used in democratic countries following rule of law to obtain admissions of guilt for kangaroo courts that don't require factual evidence, because by the time you're done pulling all man's fingernails he's ready to confess he eats children after raping them and have personally gassed 5 billion innocent people out of sheer hatred.
There was a book written by a british jew where he boasted about getting his revenge on a german soldier and used torture to obtain a confession for nuremberg trials, I forgot its title and author's name, he was a british officer of a notable rank, Major?
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No.425908
>>412552
Otherwise "radicalization" won't be a problem.
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